hard to start when warm-fresh rebuild-code 14

[legolyle]

So I finally got my freshly rebuilt (stock) GE running again, and it is pretty hard to get it to start up once it's warm. I've only done it a few times now-but when I go to start it up when its hot-it gives me a lot of trouble.
timing has been done. Car runs great once running.

initially-it wouldn't catch when hot-and would just continually turn over and over and not catch. Then, when it did catch, it would rev-up and then drop down to around 300-400 rpm and slowly make its way up to 700 in increments.
but more recently-it just refuses to catch-and I have to turn it over several times in increments of about 5 seconds. Pumping the throttle seems to help it catch sometimes.

So I checked for codes and got a code 14. Checked the ignition coil and found the primary coil has a resistance of around .4 ohms (spec is .24-.3). Secondary coil was within spec.

so my question is this:
has the code 14 got anything to do with the hard start? I'm not too well versed on the ignition circuit-but I have my doubts that the primary coils resistance is causing this hard start problem.

any input you guys have is welcomed and appreciated

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Did you check your TPS and set it?

Glad you got it running

 

[legolyle]

yep, adjusted/set as per tsrm spec.
thanks, me too

 

[legolyle]

well, got to drive it some more today-and do the official "break in"-I'd say it still doing the same thing, I had posted a thread about this BEFORE the BHG and assumed it was being caused by the BHG, but I don't think so.

the car seems to run great otherwise, I think I'm going to test the afm and see if that's got anything to do with this-as the hard start condition sort of reminds me of the couple times I've (accidentally) tried starting it without the afm.

but honestly, I'm sort of lost on this one-maybe its because of low compression because the rings haven't fully seated?
all vacuum hoses were replaced during the rebuild.
The TPS was adjusted outside of the car attached to the TB, every measurement in the TSRM checked out after I adjusted it. That was only a day or two ago.

Ill try replacing my cap and rotor tomorrow (old anyway)-and cleaning out my spark plug boots. I'll report back after that-but I'm still open to any other suggestions

 

[3p141592654]

Check that the coolant sensor is within spec
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=113

Also check for leaks in the intake, spray brakekleen around gaskets and other points that could leak and see if engine idle speed/quality changes.

 

[legolyle]

alright, well I just finished taking it out for another drive-ill check the temp sensor tomorrow when its cold again.

how would one go about testing it at all those different temperatures?
would testing it at just one temperature be sufficient?

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Check that the coolant sensor is within spec
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=113

Also check for leaks in the intake, spray brakekleen around gaskets and other points that could leak and see if engine idle speed/quality changes.

Next thing I was going to suggest, maybe pirate air.

 

[jetjock]

The time period after a prior shutdown wasn't mentioned but if it's 15-60 minutes rest pressure holding should be checked.

 

[legolyle]

I just wanted to check back in and let you guys know I didn't get to do anything today-been welding up a prior rust hole at a friends house-but I did check the coolant temp sensor this morning when the car was cold, got 1.6 ohms, but tbh it doesnt mean much because I didnt actually know what the temp of the coolant was.

ill pull out the temp sensor entirely next chance I get-tomorrow or the next day-and check it in some hot water. I'll also check for leaks around the gaskets after that.

JJ, the interval varies, so it can be anywhere from a few seconds to several hours. also, what do you mean by "pressure holding?"

After starting the car up cold several times now, I should change the problem from: "hard to start when warm" to "EASIER to start cold-harder to start when warm." Which means I had some trouble starting this morning when it was cold.

So basically it may be that the car is hard to start period.

ill be back with more news tomorrow

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

When you put your timing belt back on, did you rotate the motor a couple of rev's and check your marks again?

 

[jetjock]

Sorry, I meant fuel rest pressure. However now that you've clarified the symptom it's unlikely to be the problem.

 

[legolyle]

still haven't had a chance to get that stuff done >.<
picked up cap and rotor today along with some carb cleaner to check for leaks.

AJ-I had previously thought it might be that and checked it at TDC several times and checked the cam gears-as well as sticking a socket extension in the no1 cylinder to verify TDC-it does have the correct timing.

I am worried about ignition timing though-this is a bit of a lengthy story here-but basically when I originally installed the distributor it DID NOT have any marks on it (that I could find anyway-still cant) to tell me where to line up the dizzy gear in sync with the dizzy housing. So that when I put the distributor in it was in the correct starting position for TDC. After I adjusted it a couple of times and looked at the tsrm-I finally had the rotor installed so it was pointing at the no.1 cylinder IIRC. The car then fired right up-after previously not running at all.

Is it possible the dizzy gear is still oriented incorrectly even though the car runs well? I had tested it in several positions and it seems extremely limited on the number of positions it can actually obtain-so at the time I thought it was in correctly-and still do.

appreciate the help!

 

[legolyle]

So I finally checked everything out but the coolant temp sensor, because I don't have a deep well socket that will take it out
last time I said I checked it I made the mistake of checking the cold start senor-whatever its called, rather than the coolant temp sensor. Coolant temp sensor when cold checked out at around 2k Ohm-once I get a proper socket to pull it out I'll check it in some hot water.

I also checked the AFM and the ISC per the TSRM resistances (not the ISC operation check)
I also couldn't find any gasket leaks.

after that I decided to re-check my TPS and found that somehow the darn thing wasn't reading what it was supposed too, so I pulled the TB off and re-adjusted it-and checked it after I tightened it down.

last night I took the car for a drive to a gas station down the street-got out and realized I was on the wrong side to fill up, got back in to start it up (30 seconds later) and I spent a good 5 minutes trying to get the car to start again. It just absolutely refused to catch-even when I tried the working the throttle.

so today I tested it again-AFTER re-adjusting the TPS, drove it down the street and back-turned it off and immediately tried re-starting it-and it pretty much started right up.
Then I tried turning it off and leaving it for about 30 seconds, the result, here's a video to show you what happens the majority of the time when the car doesn't want to start:




note: when I say I'm giving it a little bit of gas-I'm actually pumping the throttle up and down, that seems to always do the trick for this problem...


anyone have any clue what the weird behavior of the engine on start up in the video means?


edit: 1) I shouldn't say that it does that majority of the time-about half, the other half of the time it just turns over and over....
2) I noticed in that video that I instinctively would stop turning the car over when it made that noise, so I went back outside and tried to get it to make that noise again and instead of reacting by letting the key go, I kept it in the ign. position and it turned over normally after making the weird noise and sometimes would start up.

 

[legolyle]

Just wanted to let you guys know, I appreciate the help, but the car has stopped doing it! No idea why, I'll probably get around to testing the temp sensor sometime anyway, esp. if the car starts having problems starting again but its been starting very consistently as of late-no issues.

thanks again!

 

[Ekmo]

I read a TSB about this a few days ago. Maybe this helps? It's from Toyota so I hope it's okay for me to post

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Just wanted to let you guys know, I appreciate the help, but the car has stopped doing it! No idea why, I'll probably get around to testing the temp sensor sometime anyway, esp. if the car starts having problems starting again but its been starting very consistently as of late-no issues.

thanks again!

Yeah....sounds like you may need a new TPS, if it keeps changing after you set it. It is a wear item, I need to talk mine needs replaced.

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

Just wanted to let you guys know, I appreciate the help, but the car has stopped doing it! No idea why, I'll probably get around to testing the temp sensor sometime anyway, esp. if the car starts having problems starting again but its been starting very consistently as of late-no issues.

thanks again!

Yeah....sounds like you may need a new TPS, if it keeps changing after you set it. It is a wear item, I need to talk mine needs replaced.

 

[legolyle]

hm interesting find ekmo, thanks, I'll have to check into that after eliminating some other stuff.

so the car is starting fine, but as of the last few days, it feels like its idling rough. I believe its gotten worse, as I originally thought nothing of it, but today sitting in the car, at idle I can feel my seat vibrating slightly and hear the door panel slightly vibrating. Not normal.

If I rev it up, it is nice and smooth. I'll check the tps again when I get home, but do ya think that could be related to the idle issue? I'd like to say its missing...but im not sure it is...