Rudy - It's fairly obvious you didn't read Dr Haas' article on motor oils...if you had, you would have understood how a multigrade oil works and that a 50W is not the optimum oil for the 7M or JZ motors. Since it seems you are promoting the Eneos 0W-50, I took a look at it:
Rudy@ManicTechRacing said:
We have used this oil on numerous 1j/2j applications and have seen power gains ranging from 12whp gains Thur the power band to as much as 20+ whp gains (on cars at about 500whp)
I'm pretty skeptical on this one...unless you did controlled tests (using the same car, no tuning changes, same OAT, barometric pressure and humidity). If so, I'd like to see the data. The reason is, SAE has done numerous tests concerning the same thing and in every case a thinner (lighter weight) oils produced very small HP gains and better gas mileage due to lower fluid friction. Toyota is promoting the use of lighter weight oils for the same reason:
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000463014.cfm?x=b5JKv2G,b38lLn1r
The NASCAR guys are using thinner oils to squeeze out a few more HP/laps too:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/2313.shtml
You can see why I'm skeptical a 50W would produce more HP. The only situation I can see is if the 0W-50 was compared to a 15W or 20W-50...the Eneos 0W-50 is a thinner 50W in this case.
Rudy@ManicTechRacing said:
This 0W50 I speak of is as thin as a 20 viscosity oil when poured out of the bottle. It also is a reverse acting as opposed to conventional or other synthetic brands. When they reach their temp rating for viscosity the oil stops protecting (this is what the company told me). This oil becomes thicker at extreme temps and has a excellent anti shear properties.
Also this oils is a Group 4 base (PAO) with Group 5 (Ester which is what F1 cars and Jet engines use for their oil) added to the mix giving this oil excellent cold start properties (being a 0W) and superior high temp/high load capacities. Best of all Its API SM certified.
Viscosity is relative when looking at the numbers on the bottle. Here are the viscosities for Eneos 0W-50 and Red Line (100% ester based) 15W-50, 5W-30 and 5W-20 for comparison:
Eneos 0W-50
Viscosity @ 40 deg C: 104 cst
Viscosity @100 deg C: 18 cst
Red Line 15W-50
Viscosity @ 40 deg C: 138 cst
Viscosity @100 deg C: 19.8 cst
Red Line 5W-30
Viscosity @ 40 deg C: 62 cst
Viscosity @100 deg C: 10.6
Red Line 5W-20
Viscosity @ 40 deg C: 55 cst
Viscosity @100 deg C: 9.1 cst
The Eneos 5W-50 is almost twice the viscosity cold as the RL 5W-20...you have to take the numbers on the bottle with a grain of salt, they do not equate to the actual viscosities of the oil cold/hot. Regardless of what you were told, motor oil never thickens as it gets hot...it always drops in viscosity as it reaches ops temp. The Eneos is no different and it will continue to get thinner as temp increases. From what info I can find on Eneos, it is a PAO based oil with ester blended in the base stock...as such, it will have excellent high temp resistance to break down and shear, characteristic of any PAO or ester based oil. The Eneos 0W-50 is better than the RL 15W-50 on the cold side for engine start, but it doesn't hold a candle to the 5W-20 or the 5W-30 in it's ability to flow cold. Flow is far more important than shear characteristics when considering an oil.
Flow is what makes the bearing in any motor work...the main and rod bearing work in the hydrodynamic region and depend on flow to keep the bearing cool and prevent the surfaced from touching. Increased viscosity causes resistance to flow (higher psi), lowering the volume of oil delivered to the bearings for a given rpm/psi output from the pump. Additionally (at least on the 7M), there are two oil relief valves that returns oil to the pan...one on the pump (functions at 63-71 psi) and a second on the filter head (operates at ~40 psi) that supplies oil to the cooler circuit...using a thick oil will cause these valves to function at a lower volume. Using a thicker oil effectively reduces the volume of oil supplied to the bearings...not good. Keep in mind the 7M and JZ series motors were designed to run an oil with a viscosity of 10-11 cst at ops temp.
Colin brought up an excellent point...the increased viscosity spread on the Eneos 0W-50 is due to the use of additional viscosity index improvers. This reduces the amount of base stock oil by volume in the formulation, which means the amount of lubricant that is usable by the motor. VII's break down as they go through engine heat cycles...even more so with a big viscosity spread like the Eneos 0W-50.
Rudy@ManicTechRacing said:
Also I know a lot of guys who drag race/road race and run heavier weights due to their extreme high temps/loads to prevent sheering and use 50 viscosity or higher. While reading the other posts I see the questions about 20W50 oils and this I think is the reason why most guys have used or are using such a heavy weight oils.
So the question I should have asked is has any one used this oil in a 7MGTE? and if so have they dynoed or have any kind of feed back on this oil (pertaining to a 7MGTE) as we have not and I would like to hear any kind of feed back that any one may have before we try this in a 7MGTE.
When talking about syn oils, shear is much less a factor...all of the PAO or ester based oils resist shear very well regardless of grade. If you want to use a thicker oil in a 7M (or JZ series) motor, the engine needs to be built for it considering the reduced flow a 50W will cause. On a 7M, the pump will need to be shimmed to increase the psi the relief valve functions, the bearing clearances will need to be opened up a bit, the cooler circuit will need to be converted to thermostat controlled, and an oil accumulator installed for start-up and heavy demand.
Even doing these things, I still would not go higher than a 40W...why would I want to restrict oil flow to the motor? The only reason I can come up with is if I was running the engine above factory redline...a thicker oil would help prevent bearing wiping at high rpm by providing an increased oil film thickness. For 99.5% of the guys out there running moderate to heavily modified street cars, a 0W or 5W-30 will be the ideal oil to run.
Overall, it looks like Eneos is a decent oil...it's nice to have another option for a "true synthetic" in the US, especially if it is price competitive. What I don't recommend is using the heavy multigrade oils, regardless of brand. I highly suggest you take the time to read the article by Dr Haas I posted above...might just change your mind of the grade of oil you use.
Edit: I posted this regarding the same oil in a different thread in this section:
jdub said:
There is something that concerns me about this oil...it look like it is targeted toward the tuner/racing crowd (like Motul, Neo, etc)...there is a lot of hype in the claims made about this oil. That makes me suspicious from the start...especially the claims concerning HP gains on the dyno. I can put on a buffalo head, leopard pants, grab my sacred totem and dance around the car, and I guarantee there will be a variance in RWHP...without changing nothing, nada, zilch. Using dyno runs to prove a lubricant is better vs others on the market is another level of marketing hype...on par with some of the "snake oil" additive advertisements. Making claims a motor oil (or additive) gives any significant increase in HP is simply outrageous. Let's keep these kind of claims out of this discussion...I want to know how our motors are going to hold up using this oil.
This was after throughly reading up on Eneos oils...I'm not saying Eneos is a bad oil or company, but their marketing tactics is lets say "less than desired". I will not tolerate "nut swinging" in this section.
