Ems

[darrick]

I need a little information on the difference between a standalone ems and the piggyback. The piggyback that i am looking to buy is the greddy emanage ultimate. What more can the standalone do for me? I know some have the luxury of if i bought some usdm injectors that i wouldnt need to wire a resistor. Im running a 1jz gte. im going to put a fuel pump and a in and injectors then a ems. I appreciate all the help guys.

 

[10secdream]

A standalone ems replaces the factory ecu. A piggyback essentially hacks into the stock ecu.

 

[darrick]

Yeah I knew that, what I really want to know is what else does the standalone do?

 

[kamikazemkiii]

Allows you to fine tune, controls boost, 2 step, rev limit, timing, ect.

 

[Bigzavs]

Yeah I knew that, what I really want to know is what else does the standalone do?

like said above, the piggyback hacks the stock ecu signals, but it is limited to the stock ecu limits, ie you cant raise your rev limiter etc.

the standalone controls every aspect of the engine running.

 

[nguyen95465]

I'm running a powerfc in my car which is a standalone. And my buddy just bought a car running MAP-ECU2 piggyback. The powerfc is a little harder to tune as there are alot to know about all the features of a standalone. The MAP-ECU2 is really easy to tune with alot of nice features like launch control, 2 step, timing, boost controller. The one thing I do not like about tuning a piggyback is that you still have to deal with tuning under fuel cut which in the case of the stock ECU I could only tune the MAP up to 4.3 Volts. Unless you get an upgraded ECU like Blitz or Mines you are gonna deal with this AFAIK. I am kind of new to this piggyback tuning but so far that's what I've seen. So now I am trying to convince him to upgrade his injectors to run safer AFR at a higher boost.

Also, MAP-ECU2 has a nice feature that can load a primary and secondary map with a flip of a switch. I have it right now tuned for a safe tune 14 psi as his primary and a more aggressive tune as the secondary. And the Boost controller works quite well with the ability to limit boost in each RPM range.

So things I do not like about piggyback:
Fuel cut
Speed cut
Can't change rev limit
One failed already on me and he only had the car for a week.
MAP-ECU2 is basically just as expensive as a cheap stinger. ($800 overnighted from MVP)
Goes lean for a split second when quickly stepping on the gas. (Still working on this)
Relying on a 20 year old stock ECU to perform most functions.
The company that makes this piggyback notes not to exceed more than double the size of stock injectors as it cannot compensate that much.
For the most part, all this piggyback does is change what the MAP sensor tells the ECU.


just my 2 cents.

 

[nguyen95465]

I'm running a powerfc in my car which is a standalone. And my buddy just bought a car running MAP-ECU2 piggyback. The powerfc is a little harder to tune as there are alot to know about all the features of a standalone. The MAP-ECU2 is really easy to tune with alot of nice features like launch control, 2 step, timing, boost controller. The one thing I do not like about tuning a piggyback is that you still have to deal with tuning under fuel cut which in the case of the stock ECU I could only tune the MAP up to 4.3 Volts. Unless you get an upgraded ECU like Blitz or Mines you are gonna deal with this AFAIK. I am kind of new to this piggyback tuning but so far that's what I've seen. So now I am trying to convince him to upgrade his injectors to run safer AFR at a higher boost.

Also, MAP-ECU2 has a nice feature that can load a primary and secondary map with a flip of a switch. I have it right now tuned for a safe tune 14 psi as his primary and a more aggressive tune as the secondary. And the Boost controller works quite well with the ability to limit boost in each RPM range.

So things I do not like about piggyback:
Fuel cut
Speed cut
Can't change rev limit
One failed already on me and he only had the car for a week.
MAP-ECU2 is basically just as expensive as a cheap stinger. ($800 overnighted from MVP)
Goes lean for a split second when quickly stepping on the gas. (Still working on this)
Relying on a 20 year old stock ECU to perform most functions.
The company that makes this piggyback notes not to exceed more than double the size of stock injectors as it cannot compensate that much.
For the most part, all this piggyback does is change what the MAP sensor tells the ECU.


just my 2 cents.

edit: MAP-ECU2 technically removes fuel cut, but does so like any other FCD does by just clamping map voltage. This means the ECU still thinks it is right below the pressure for fuel cut. This in turn makes your AFR lean higher up as the ECU does not really increase the injector duty when boost is increased above this 4.3 volt threshold. Actually a little due to the increase in RPM but not enough to fix lean issues without installing larger injectors. So if you use this or any other FCD, watch your wideband O2 carefully.
Also, this ECU does provide speed cut elimination as well but instead I chose to use the lone input for my Primary / Secondary Map Switch I noted earlier.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[darrick]

edit: MAP-ECU2 technically removes fuel cut, but does so like any other FCD does by just clamping map voltage. This means the ECU still thinks it is right below the pressure for fuel cut. This in turn makes your AFR lean higher up as the ECU does not really increase the injector duty when boost is increased above this 4.3 volt threshold. Actually a little due to the increase in RPM but not enough to fix lean issues without installing larger injectors. So if you use this or any other FCD, watch your wideband O2 carefully.
Also, this ECU does provide speed cut elimination as well but instead I chose to use the lone input for my Primary / Secondary Map Switch I noted earlier.
Hope this makes sense.

That pretty much sums it up, I appreciate the help and as for if I go with a piggyback or standalone I will let you guys know thanks again

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

Fuel cut is not a real issue get a higher PSI Map then re-map it down with a AFC or fuel managment systemn like piggyback. the fuel cut limit is the sensor itself.
But boosting more then fuel cut on oem fuel system or turbo is a waste anyway.

AS far as Standalone Vs piggy back the stand alone is way better!
Allows for sequential injection & firing, timming control, multi maps, built in 30psi map, boost control RPM redline vvti adjust all of that valet mode can handle any drastic mods thrown at it like if you change turbo because the old ones blow just slap a bigger turbo on larger fuel injectors then trim & fine tune the base map
boost control can be tuned while driving the car with a carputer. there is tons of things you can do like turn on electric fans some standalones have turbo timers built in etc.. I could go on forever on why a stand alone is better.

like if you blow the motor up just throw a cheap aristo 2JZ in your car trim the map and drive.

 

[nguyen95465]

Fuel cut is not a real issue get a higher PSI Map then re-map it down with a AFC or fuel managment systemn like piggyback. the fuel cut limit is the sensor itself.
But boosting more then fuel cut on oem fuel system or turbo is a waste anyway.

AS far as Standalone Vs piggy back the stand alone is way better!
Allows for sequential injection & firing, timming control, multi maps, built in 30psi map, boost control RPM redline vvti adjust all of that valet mode can handle any drastic mods thrown at it like if you change turbo because the old ones blow just slap a bigger turbo on larger fuel injectors then trim & fine tune the base map
boost control can be tuned while driving the car with a carputer. there is tons of things you can do like turn on electric fans some standalones have turbo timers built in etc.. I could go on forever on why a stand alone is better.

like if you blow the motor up just throw a cheap aristo 2JZ in your car trim the map and drive.

Evil,
I understand that tuning more than fuel cut with oem and turbo is a waste, but I fail to understand how reloading a larger PSI map will change fuel cut on a piggyback.
My understanding is that at 4.4V from your map sensor (right at fuel cut), your ecu will calculate how much fuel to put in based on RPM. So by just loading a higher PSI map into the system and keeping the injectors the same then you will run lean becuase whether you have a higher psi map or lower psi map 4.3v is 4.3v as far as injection duty the ecu outputs. So anything above this threshold is just clamped and injector duty is not raised. Piggybacks do not control injectors as they let the ecu control that. ECU does not know what map you loaded only voltage from the stock map which the piggyback is modifying and stock fuel map.
And I agree that a standalone is definitly the way to go as I am running a PowerFC in my supra.
I am still learning so please dont mind my questions.
BTW the piggyback i am tuning is running walbro fuelpump, aftermarket fuel reg, 440's and holset turbo.

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

I sent a PM to help a little better
Your just below the point of needing a standalone
To get more boost past fuel cut
1st get 2jz 550s then add the resistor pack.
2nd get a GM 3Bar map then run it to your FC
Run up to 17psi on premium gas no more unless using meth or race fuel.
Retune it it will not hit fuel cut anymore.

If you plan to push a lot of dynos and run it hard at 17psi and will be the least bit tempted to get even more boost then for sure just get a standalone top feed 2 or more walbros or single godly fuel pump Good clutch etc..

I think your mixing up ECU tune MAP with MAP sensor.
I know if you hit 4.7volts on a 3bar map sensor your more likely at 22+ #s of boost so if you hit fuel cut with an upgraded map then you will have other concerns by that point then just fuel cut.

 

[perpetualthought]

emanage ultimate can change rev limit and fire injectors sequentially, also with some hacking can control boost (additional injector control to control the duty cycle of a solenoid).
you should read more from a spec sheet of piggy backs and ecus. Don't make a hasty, expensive and unnecessary decision.