Discrepancy with A1 Toe arms?

[test pilot]

They don't measure up in length. Here are the comparison pics. in order to make them equal the stock length is to unscrew the heim joint very far out only leaving about half an inch being held on by the tube. So...my gut says, "this is not OK" but i don't have any professional experience with heim joints. Please chime in.

 

[starscream5000]

Looks like not even half the threads would be in.... I'd say, yikes!

 

[test pilot]

scary, right? on top of this there would a couple of issues i had to deal with. for instance i had to enlarge the hole on the sway bar tab because the bolt would fit. It went beyond the thickness of the powdercoat. The next was that the sleeve for the cam bolt was just small enough to where i required some "Coaxing" with a hammer. for $280 bucks i expected these arms to be right and drop right in with no modification. I'm not too thrilled with the product so i rated it a 5 outta 10 on HPF.com

 

[starscream5000]

I'd give A1 a call and bring this issue up with them, they may be able to send you a longer heim joint...

 

[bwest]

Is you car lowered?

If so, making the lower arm shorter than stock will be needed to help bring the car back into alignment (instead of relying on the adjustment of the cam bolt). Personally I thought that was their biggest appeal.

 

[tErbo b00st]

Is you car lowered?

If so, making the lower arm shorter than stock will be needed to help bring the car back into alignment (instead of relying on the adjustment of the cam bolt). Personally I thought that was their biggest appeal.

Here is my first tech post on here :icon_razz

I'm not sure how the A70 chassis works exactly (I just bought one a month ago, heh), but cars either toe in or out when they are lowered. Based on bwest's post it seems as though the A70 will toe in when it is lowered. Most aftermarket parts, ESPECIALLY toe rods are designed to be used with a certain market. Thus these arms are designed to be used on a lowered A70. To fix your toe problem you are going to need to shorten the arm, thus having more of the shank inside the arm.

Even so, that much shank sticking out (to make stock length) should be ok as long as A1 uses a high grade shank.

If your not lowered why did you buy them?

 

[starscream5000]

I'd say he bought them to upgrade the stock part . All he's doing is pointing out that the A1 is shorter than the stocker and wants to know why before he attempts to put them on.

 

[IJ.]

Usually the diameter of the fastener is the minimum amount you want engaged for it to be at 100% strength but in this case I'd be uncomfortable using them as pictured.(then again I wouldn't use heim joints on a road car)

When you lower a Mk3 you run into a situation where you can either have Camber or Toe set correctly as the camber pins run out of adjustment.

On my car I ended up shortening the lower transverse arms 15mm each to put the adjusters back in the middle of their range.

 

[starscream5000]

So in this case, longer A1 toe arms or bust?

 

[test pilot]

To alleviate some confusion, i have lowered my car. I also freely admit i know NOTHING about suspension which is why i matched the stock parts. So if anyone can offer a website for suspension setup for our cars or some helpful hints, i'll all ears. I have put the arms on and they seem ok. However, i'd like to correct the problem before something breaks. Suggestions?

 

[IJ.]

TP: Has it been aligned yet?

 

[test pilot]

TP: Has it been aligned yet?

Not yet, IJ. I've been waiting for these arms to come in before i got it aligned. Alignment will be in two weeks

 

[IJ.]

Possibly and this is just a guess on my part the guy that designs the A1 parts has taken lowering into account and the shorter arms may cossect the lack of adjustment I spoke of earlier!

I did the transverse arms as they're not under as much stress as the toe arms in use so at the time it seemed the safer solution.
(without laying on my back and studying the geometry again this is only a guess on my part)

 

[bwest]

Ian - why would you not use heim joints on a road car?

Is it a NVH issue or because the joint is open to the elements that dirt and crud will work itself within the bushing, wear the joint and cause slop and additional noise (requiring periodic replacement)?

/hijack

 

[IJ.]

BW: All of the above !

There are too many variables on the road such as potholes and so on and Heims by their nature have little to no give compliance and can be damaged easily.

In a race environment this isn't an issue and race cars tend to be inspected often but a road car may go many many months and 1000's of miles with the suspension being "out of sight out of mind" and I'm not keen on the idea of a joint failing at 150+

 

[test pilot]

I'll take in some slack on the toe arms as my gut is yelling at me. However, these joints are EXTREMELY beefy. I don't see how they would be prone to failing before, say, the mounts that they attach to.

 

[IJ.]

<shrugs> It's just my opinion/preference.

It's up to you to make that decision.

 

[bwest]

Its more about fatigue resistance. I have run heim joints in a variety of situations, but they just need checking over. As dirt gets between the ball and housing, it works like sand paper and changes the shape of ball and increases clearance. The issue here isn't the vibration that you feel in the car, its that little ball bouncing around, eventually fatiguing the joint itself (i've broken one was used in shift linkage - popped the ball right out of the housing). While this is an extreme example, I can see where IJ is coming from here - just make it something you routinely check and don't worry about it.

 

[IJ.]

BW: And as well all know shift linkages are loaded so much more than Suspension arms <jk>

Not wanting to harp on about this or disparage our members but most of the kids here can't be bothered checking oil and water and they're meant to inspect and maintain race type parts??

Anyone that's worked on a race team knows how fragile a lot of this gear is and that's in the controlled environment of a circuit.

 

[drjonez]

adjust the stock alignment cam.