Defective fan clutch?

M

MisterTurbineTwister

Guest
Don't run anything BUT 50/50 mixture. If you run anything lower on the antifreeze side, it does help cool the engine, but you run a large risk of rusting your block and freezing in cold temperatures below 32 degrees. Some people use a cooling agent in their systems or different mixtures on the lean side of antifreeze, but these cars seldom see cold weather and are usually fair weather cars or race cars only.

In a daily driver, just keep it simple and stay 50/50. It gives good cooling and gives good protection over freezing and more importantly, has better rust inhibiting properties.

If I would have known that you were running 85/15% I would have suggested fixing the ratio first before anything else. This is probably why you are running hot.

As far as buying the 50/50 pre mixed stuff, it's 2 times as expensive as normal antifreeze. Just make your life easy, buy a gallon of straight antifreeze and get an empty gallon (rinse a milk jug or get another empty antifreeze container) and fill it halfway full of antifreeze from your bottle that you bought and fill both bottles the rest of the way with distilled water.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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I come from a land down under
MTT is correct here!

I use the 33% premix as we don't get freezing temps here (seen snow here twice in my lifetime) So I can get away with the lean mix!
(The premix has the benefit of being clean distilled water as some tap water can contain contaminants)

My PC is watercooled and when I was building it I did a heap of research into coolant and found that you can't beat straight water! Only problem here is you'd soon kill the motor with electrolysis and corrosion and in cold climates freezing the block solid!
 

CSquared

New Member
Apr 5, 2005
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Ok i dumbed down the water:coolant mix a little bit more... Im not totally sure but i think im just around 50:50 now.

I also replaced the fan clutch with an aftermarket unit... seems to be moving a decent amount of air... a decent bit tighter than my stock fan clutch.

The car doesnt seem to be overheating now but what i have noticed is that the temperature gauge is maintaining higher temperatures. Where-as before this crap my gauge would stick at about 45%... now i would say it is sticking at about 55-60%

lol nothing can ever be easy... i swear... any other suggestions?

Edit: also what is lower plug on the thermostat housing? I dont know if i did it today while doing the fan(probably) but it was cut for whatever reason.
 
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LJM61

Member
May 2, 2005
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I had similar symptoms with my 88T although I did have the issues with the coolant overflow. (What year is yours?)

I did chase around for months trying to reslove it with replacing 3 clutchfans, thermostats, and I did discover the rad was some what clogged and had it replaced with a high flow truck core. But that didn't help. It took longer to get to overheating but that's it. I was fighting with a local Toyota dealership who did the last head gasket job trying to get them to admit to there being a problem with some MKIII Supra head gaskets or engines, but by then the head gasket finally let go on No#6.(which is most often the case) And they refused to help.

I ended up rebuilding the engine just 4 month after buying it and 7 months since a Toyota dealership replaced the head gasket. I had her block plained and the head shaved, dipped & Honed to restore her to better than new condition , then used a 2mm HKS stopper HG & ARP bolts. Replaced all the bearings, Rings, Seals, water & oil pumps. Xray'ed the rods, New performance vavles & spring sets.
You name it we replaced it. But when she was reinstalled and she was still over heating.... 7 Months later after the bottom end failure, I had a used 89 engine dropped into her reusing everyting else, and since then it has been amazingly perfect. It has totally different characteristics.

It pulls much harder to 4000rpm without waking the turbo then spools up faster when the turbo kicks in. Has superior economy and a much broader pre turbo power range.
Since then I have come to the opinion that there may be a problem with engines from specific build runs.

P.S.>>>
I'd say you were heading to a BHG.
The first Clutchfans I replaced was aftermarket(lasted 37 minutes) and 2 OEM(that lasted 9 & 17 days)
Your mechanic is correct with his technique BTW. Your Clutchfan is toast and their enlies one of the major reasons for your troubles.

Another observation is that the factory Clutchfans where manufactured with way too little Newtonian oil. I discovered this as being a possability from speaking with Ben from Hamilton ne: of the Toronto Supra Club. He mentioned that he cracked his open and added oil to his to "FIX IT" since I had a few laying around, I cracked open 2 of them and poured the content from one that was totally dead into one that worked intermitantly. It worked.!

Another observation from even more experienced people is that the first CAT is right next to cylander #6 which has the highest failure rate on M7's.

Another question is, does your rad have a complete shroud as well as the belly pan? Both were missing on mine when I bought it so I replaced the shroud but never got around to installing the pan cover. There does seem to be some relation to engine bay air flow and overheating. The shroud alone was a noticable improvement.

Even though this latest engine has been perfect so far(out of an 89), I'm still planning on scrapping the OEM exhaust for a 3" system eliminating the 1st Cat and adding a hood vent just behind the turbo to OUT vent heat from the engine bay.

Another point is to check the rad and clean between it and the airconditioning condenser if you have air. The crap that can build up there is nasty and will fowl the air flow.

P.S.>>>
I also made a home made thermostat mod. I cut off the spring tower assembly and hammered the appature into a smaller diameter leaving a small lip flare that pointed in the direction of the flow to help make it smoother and more focused without adding messy turbulance, This in effect was a wide open "SUMMER" thermostat that was marginally restricted so the coolant wouldn't fly past the rad too fast and still remain in the rad long enough to be effective. Using this mod in the rebuilt engine kept it cool longer and allowed me to cool it down rapidly by just slowing down to 80kph in 4th gear for 2 minutes when she was starting to get hot.

Another quick mod is to either remove the rear engine bay sill gasket to help increase the outflow of heat from the engine bay and increase the flow-through speed at the rad.

BUTTTT!!! The biggest and most effective thing you can do is:
"STAY OFF THE TURBO"!!! I tough myself how to drive her using higher revs and shifting later without tripping the boost(Turbo=Heat) I discovered that this is a much faster way to drive such a heavy car. And besides, The MKIII IS a Grand Touring car at it's best. NOT a 0 to hero drag racing ricer machine. If any MKIII Supra owner thinks they can use her as a red light racer will find out the hard way that they have the wrong machine.

I hope this helps somehow!

P.S.>>>
I didn't include the last bit in specific relation to your over heating issue, but as a general observation I wanted to share with the general population since this would be just one reason for BHG. Miss use!

Appologies for the length of this post.

P.S.S.>>>
I still adore my MKIII and am still sticking with moding her to suit my taste and needs for speed...
 
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CSquared

New Member
Apr 5, 2005
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LJM61 said:
I had similar symptoms with my 88T although I did have the issues with the coolant overflow. (What year is yours?)[/qoute]

89... not sure about the engine though. I really dont think(dont want to think) that it is the headgasket again. I did the headgasket personally with my friend who is toyota certified... he has also done a few other mk3 headgaskets.

The head was machined and we measured the block to be under the maximum warpage allowed in the tsrm. I am running stock composite gasket with arps torqued to about 75lbs.

It passed a series of block tests as i believe if explained in one of my earlier posts.
 
W

w0rm

Guest
Did you burp the cooling system? When you replace the thermostat go with a real toyota one.. I've heard other replacements aren't as good.
 

LJM61

Member
May 2, 2005
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Hey Cramersize!

OH YA!!!
I forgot a MAJOR MAJOR point in the previous thread, and it's one of those observations that will surprise you.

WHAT FUEL GRADE DO YOU PUT INTO YOUR MKIII???

When I first got mine I immediately started using the highest pump octane(never a boost additive) I could fined(Sunoco 98 Gold) Throttle responce was awsome and I found it actually improved the gas mileage as well. Originally I used it with the idea that it was a superior and higher quality product with less crap in it. Although this may have been theoretically true, IT was FAR TOO MUCH Octane and this added to the heat being produced since it burned SOOOO Much Hotter. After the rebuild, my mechanic(who was a factory racing mechanic for Audi's pro rally team) said that due to the tolerences after machining and the new head gasket gap, it may be nessessary to run higher octane fuel to avoid engine knock, to which I replied "I already do"!

That week when I first put her back on the road and started her breakin period I took it really easy for the first 3000km and then the overheating began again. Then one day I was getting some fuel and the station was out of the GOLD 98 octane, so I opted to use a small amount of the middle grade 94 octane instead so I could see if the engine would knock as my mechanic warned. It didn't have any problems running on 94 octane. Then I notices she was running slightly cooler. When I pushed her a little she was about 50% better in the cooling department. This got me curious.

When that small amount of fuel was used up the next day, I went to another station that pumps their regular fuel to 87 octane. Expecting her to run rough, I was surprised to find she had no problems at all running that low an octane. And whats more. She ran PERFECTLY COOL! I went out after 30 minutes of driving that normally would have shown the temp gage starting to raise slightly and stated to abuse the turbo a little more than I knew she normally would like. No Problems! She would not get hot. At that point I decided to take her up the West Hamilton Mountain highway pass(403) and stuck the throttle to 4000rpm's in 5th for the entire 3kms of extreamly steep road(At roughly 140kph) ZIPPO! Notta!!! Not one single degree did she rise.


As for my rebuild...
I had the same done when I had the original 88T engine with the same results as yourself with regards to tolerances. The head had the slightest warpage but well within specs. That's what I mean about suspecting some manufacturing defect of some kind that may only effect specific runs of blocks. I also suspect that they had several automated mills machining the blocks at the same time, and one of them may have machined a small flaw that was either undetectable or passed as not being critticle. I also beleive that there is little to no difference between the blocks of 87 to 92's so if anything, if the flaw was caught late in the blocks production period(I hear far fewer incidents of BHG & over heating from the last 2 years the cars were made) and this speculation of mine fits with this idea.

This problem is one of the reasons I've been trying to get Toyota Japan to free up access to their factories archival photos just so I can see what the production setup was at the time.

One of the guys from another Supra forum jokingly said of this idea that it would be great to see those pic's so we can witness some Yoshi tying down the head bolts with a hangover to half of the spec torque.... LOL

And it could come down to something as simple as that...

Again, the reason this view seem likely to me is because there are many M70 owners who have had no engine problems at all, and have even moded basically stock engines with bolt on upgrade that have worked perfectly without overheating and blown head gastkets.

Just a note with regards to overheating. The Stock organic OEM head gasket is severly damaged if the needle of your temp gage EVER touches the red for just a few seconds. Those few mere seconds does enough damage that your over heating gets worse and worse until ultimately BHG occurs.
 
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Raven97990

Supramania Contributor
Jul 3, 2005
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Georgia
www.speedforsale.com
I know this is a old post, but I wanted to say that most of you guys are a hair off on Toyota techs. Using a flexible hose is a accepted way of testing a fan clutch, its all in how you use it. If you shove it in, you'll screw up some stuff, do it right, and you get a effective test.

BTW, I am his "friend" who helped, and will stand by everything I do. I am the exception when it comes to a dealer tech.

And to the guy who said I needed to put my tools down and sit on my hands, I'll take a "fix it" challenge any day against you, I ain't scared.
 

MKIIINA

Destroyer of Turbos
Mar 30, 2005
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show me the "rubber hose in the fan shroud test" in the tsrm and i will retract my statement. past that {shrug} from my personal experience as referenced above toyota techs need to be trained a bit more before they all think they can takle any job that comes their way.
 

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Aug 23, 2006
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:werd: I don't try something on the supra unless the TSRM recomends it. I will do something though if it has been tried and proven on this site a few times with pics and steps of what was done.
 

Raven97990

Supramania Contributor
Jul 3, 2005
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Georgia
www.speedforsale.com
MKIIINA said:
show me the "rubber hose in the fan shroud test" in the tsrm and i will retract my statement. past that {shrug} from my personal experience as referenced above toyota techs need to be trained a bit more before they all think they can takle any job that comes their way.



You don't introduce it to the fan shroud, just the fan. Part of being a good technician is knowing how to quickly, and safely diagnose common problems. Again the hose technique is not one I would tell everyone to do, because you can quickly screw something up if you do it wrong. And so you know, the correct TSRM inspection is to remove it from vehicle, remove the four bolts, and to turn by hand. Doesn't show how well it does after heat is applied to it uh?

Oh, and heres a vid of me at work..
http://break.com/index/worlds_dumbest_mechanic.html

You want to know how "good" I am? Supracentral may vouch for me, good ol Donahue...
 
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