Dashpot mod: to solve engine stalling when venting BOV to atmosphere

tekdeus

Pronounced Tek-DAY-us
Jan 23, 2006
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For those that don't know, the dashpot is an emissions control device to help burn unburnt fuel each time the throttle is closed while driving. It is a simple diaphram that uses a valve to let air in quickly, but release it slowly, easing the throttle plate closed when released over a very short period of about .8 seconds. (See diagram at the bottom)

I know that a lot of Supra owners like to vent their blow-off valves to atmosphere instead of properly recirculating like stock. But this causes large spikes in unburnt fuel flooding the engine when letting off the throttle after boosting, and often causes the engine to stumble or stall. This is due to the air being metered by the air flow meter(AFM) and when vented to atmosphere, the ECU assumes that air is going into the engine and adds the amount of fuel it thinks is needed for that air.

My aftermarket blow-off valve is designed to vent to atmosphere and I got tired of the stumbling and stalling, and I thought that the dashpot, releasing the throttle much more slowly after blow-off, could solve this problem. Obviously a standalone or Maft-pro would eliminate the AFM and the problem, but I found a temporary fix:

I cut open my dashpot VTV, and found it had a check valve inside that allowed air in, but then shut to force outgoing air through a tiny pinhole in a small metal plate. My goal was to simply slow this outgoing air to hold the throttle plate partially open for a much longer time after letting off the throttle. So I used silicone to glue that pinhole shut, and glued the VTV back together, so it now functions ONLY as a check valve.
hta3 007.jpg

hta3 008.jpg


I tee'd in a K-Sport manual boost controller (spring/ball-valve type) to act as the pinhole for the outgoing air. I found that by loosely tightening the screw on the boost controller to put very light pressure on the spring ball valve, it allowed the dashpot diaphram air to creep by very slowly. I then adjusted the dashpot set screw to set the RPM at which the dashpot holds the throttle open (1500-2000 RPM)
hta3 009.jpg


The end result keeps the throttle open at 1500-2000 rpm for a few seconds before returning to idle, and effectively eliminates all the stumbling and stalling problems I was having before.

Notes: I first tried using a regular check valve, but found that it did not close when the throttle was let out slowly. Only the OEM dashpot VTV internal check valve was sensitive enough to work 100% of the time.

Also: the success of this mod depends on air creeping very slowly by the internal ball valve of the K-sport boost controller. If the valve was to seal perfectly, it would hold the throttle open permanently at the selected RPM. I had this unit kicking around and it worked, but I don't know if other units or new ones will work the same way. Experimenters, please report back! :biglaugh:

P.S. Before this mod, I was once approaching a corner with my music cranked loud, and my engine stalled because of the above problem and I didn't hear or notice. I had to unexpectedly pull REALLY hard on my steering to avoid the curb because the power steering stopped working when the engine stalled!

EC_008.gif
 
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*james*

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Dec 24, 2008
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Same problem here with the blitz bov that came on the car when I got it, planning on getting the hks ssqv, isn't that bov made to be vented to the atmosphere and stops it from stalling? If not I'm going to try your idea.
 

Nick M

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Sep 9, 2005
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I saw one at SILV, he used the HKS SSBV, or whatever the alphabet acronym is, and it looked alright. All he did was turn it down, and had a short piece connect, like 2".

Not to sidetrack to far from the subject.
 

tekdeus

Pronounced Tek-DAY-us
Jan 23, 2006
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Quick update: my dashpot mod setup has been 100% reliable. It is very nice to be able to blow off huge amounts of air and never have to worry at all about stumbling or stalling. I just drive normally.

In the video below, at 0:48, you can see how I go from 21psi full boost then instantly to fully closed throttle/braking/blowoff, and the rpm's coast down to about 1800-1900 rpm's. It will then hold there for about 6 seconds, then slowly drifts back down to idle around 900.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKypE1VEwZc
 

mkiii222

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Mar 31, 2005
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FullNelson;1363430 said:
And theres no way for ingoing air to come in through the MBC?


Even if there were the dashpot doesn't connect to the intake at all. It's just a system designed to hold the throttle plate slightly open for brief moment.
 

projectsupra

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Apr 5, 2005
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tekdeus;1363499 said:
Quick update: my dashpot mod setup has been 100% reliable. It is very nice to be able to blow off huge amounts of air and never have to worry at all about stumbling or stalling. I just drive normally.

In the video below, at 0:48, you can see how I go from 21psi full boost then instantly to fully closed throttle/braking/blowoff, and the rpm's coast down to about 1800-1900 rpm's. It will then hold there for about 6 seconds, then slowly drifts back down to idle around 900.

Glad to hear the idea is still a success, I knew it would work.:biglaugh:
 

CPT Furious

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Mar 30, 2005
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I assume that the pinhole was tiny enough that you couldn't silicone it and make a smaller hole? I've never taken a look inside to see how small the hole is...
 

NashMan

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Aug 5, 2005
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why not just adjust the throttle plate a little more advanced all way's work for me then readjust your tps to the new setting
 

jdub

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NashMan;1363922 said:
why not just adjust the throttle plate a little more advanced all way's work for me then readjust your tps to the new setting

Because then you will have a high idle all the time, which the ECU (via the ISCV) will attempt to correct. You should never crack the TB plate with the adjustment screw or open the air bypass screw on the early (pre '89) TBs. You will eventually cause the ISCV to completely close and lose the ECU idle-up functions for warm-up, AC, etc.

Bottom line, it doesn't work (at least very well) on a stock ECU...it's a Cletus method at best.
 

IwantMKIII

WVU MAEngineering
Jun 12, 2007
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good idea. Though i very RARELY stall or stumble with my HKS SSQV ever since it was tuned.

Maybe i'm special I don't know but i've run on 3 different wire harness and 3 different ECU's, 2 different TB's and a 3rd chassis and had no problems for 2 years.
 

NashMan

WTF did he just wright ?
Aug 5, 2005
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jdub;1363934 said:
Because then you will have a high idle all the time, which the ECU (via the ISCV) will attempt to correct. You should never crack the TB plate with the adjustment screw or open the air bypass screw on the early (pre '89) TBs. You will eventually cause the ISCV to completely close and lose the ECU idle-up functions for warm-up, AC, etc.

Bottom line, it doesn't work (at least very well) on a stock ECU...it's a Cletus method at best.

i am talking about the thottle plate back stop

and i am talking about 50 to 100 rpm is all you really need

and it works fine many many many year's no broken parts no issues no back fires popping etc
no ideal issues every thing work's like it should
if 8 year plus year's of driving has not broken any thing i think it is OK

but i should say before doing this clean your throttle plate and throttle body
 

jdub

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Not going to argue with you Nash...you are well known for "fixes" like this, so there is no point.

It's not ok to introduce air at idle at any other source than the ISCV path on the stock TCCS...every Toyota tech article I've seen backs me up on this. I've seen the results 1st hand too.
That's all I'm going to say on this matter.

What tekdeus did to solve the problem (delaying the dashpot closing time) illustrates he knows how the TB and associated ISCV air path works. More important, how the ECU controls it and why the engine stalls when the BOV is vented to atmosphere. The best way is to recirculate the BOV, but it's a good solution (excluding emissions) if that option is not used.
 

Insidious Surmiser

Formerly 89jdm7m
May 12, 2006
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very good idea... :naughty: that HTA 35r must be a blast to drive around with... great turbo, wasn't aware you were running one. are you running a quick spool valve as well? I remember you were contemplating using one.
 

tekdeus

Pronounced Tek-DAY-us
Jan 23, 2006
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89jdm7m;1364482 said:
very good idea... :naughty: that HTA 35r must be a blast to drive around with... great turbo, wasn't aware you were running one. are you running a quick spool valve as well? I remember you were contemplating using one.

Yep. Currently getting 15psi at 3600rpm, but I think once I set the valve to hold closed longer, I should get 15psi around 3300! This is with a .84 turbine and the larger 86mm exducer compressor (4mm larger than a GT35!)