Code 11, and my engine keeps shutting off whilst driving.

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
My engine keeps shutting off while driving. I can't seem to replicate the issue much while the car is standing still, it needs to be moving. Getting a code 11 from it. I've checked all my connectors, and tried shaking parts of the harness when the car is running at a standstill-netting nothing.

I checked the ECUs ground on the engine block-it was tight-but I removed it and sanded it down a bit as it looked dirty.
I checked the resistance between the +B/+B1 pins and the main relay socket, and, got 0 Ohms, it didn't hint at a bad connection (although there could definitely still be one). Ground pins for the ECU were also the same.
I pulled the main relay and checked it, got about 75 Ohms IIRC across pins 3 and 4. No continuity between 1 and 2 (as it should be).

In my frustration, I decided to hook up an arduino via a voltage divider (max input of 5v on the arduino's analog pins) so I could view the ECU's power feed line and log it while driving (in the hope I could determine whether the ECU was losing ground, power, or what).

I then took the car out for a ~15 minute drive. No problems that I could sense.

Got back home, dumped the data I recorded into excel, and I'm seeing drops to around 0V as measured by my arduino for up to 2/3 of a second. I sure didn't notice it while driving though, not like before anyway. (2/3 of a second is quite a lot to not feel, imo)
But, I swear, I could hear what sounded like a backfire or something once or twice while letting of the gas or decelerating. It might have been my imagination, but I dunno.

I'm thinking its a break in the wire or the main relay going bad.

If I were to ignore the data I recorded though (which I feel I have some reason to, due to it's jerry-rigged nature), I would assume my problem had been found (the ground). So tomorrow I'm going to go back through and try and clean up the ground(s) some more.

Anyone have any suggestions for me? The problem didn't technically recur, but, I just know Ill take the car out for a drive tomorrow when everything is back in the right place, and it'll do the same thing over again. The data also has me a bit suspicious.

appreciate any help :D
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
An arduino? That's funny. Why not a DMM on Min/Max? Why not simply drop test each side or temporarily run new power and ground (not at the same time of course) to isolate on which side the problem lies?. Once isolated divide in half with the jumper or drop test until the culprit is found.

Main relay pins are wrong. Check again energized on the bench or drop test when installed. You can always replace or temporarily bypass it. Reminds me: try cycling everything that can be including the ECU connector and EFI fuse. You might get lucky.

If it comes to it remove the ECU, load the wiring up, and drop test. If you don't have access to an electronic load use something like a headlamp. Watch the lamp or put your meter across it while recording. Or again, drop test. It will always result in the best circuit integrity.
 

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
jetjock;1947966 said:
To me it's not a solution.

I'd be really curious if it ever became one xD

But, it could have helped me see which problem was occurring!

To be perfectly honest though, the reason I chose the arduino is because previous to this, I thought I had fixed this problem. When this issue started occurring, I found a loose connector between the coil and ignitor (the only two prong one that connects the two). I fixed it that, and wala, the problem *magically* disappeared. Only to reappear several days later. This repeated itself about 3 times :p So I got sick of it, and instead of 'wasting' time testing different things, I just wanted to throw an arduino on there and see what exactly was happening to cause the car to shut off. Didn't really work anyway....oh well.

and as for using a DMM on min/max, the answer is simple: I don't own a nice (enough) DMM xD

I did some drop testing on the +B/+B1 (that's what I'm calling the power feed :p) lines and got close to 0V, and, nearly 0.4 V on the ground line. I then checked the resistance of the ground line *again* and, this time got 7.5 ohms, when going through the chassis. Then did a direct test from the battery negative to the ground on the ECU connector, and got around 2-3 ohms.
Those numbers sounded a little high to me, and I went checked resistance on the big grounding strap on the engine block - got about 2-3 ohms. So decided to replace it. Checked the strap that connects the chassis to the battery ground, and, got another somewhat high number, so replacing it as well.

In my travels, I got curious and checked the resistance of the aging alternator +12V connector. Between it, and the battery + terminal, my meter read nearly 300 ohms. I didn't do a drop test, instead, I pulled it off, and discovered that the nut was baked in place, and the metal area underneath where the ring terminal was bolted on, had about halfway melted.
Gonna get a new alternator from the auto store...(lifetime warranty!) But, something tells me I may need to replace the wire there. Or determine what's causing that area to melt.

Also bench tested the main relay (several times)-worked fine!

I'm not sure exactly whats going on, but, I will get back to this when I finish getting the car's electricals back together. These semi-major problems I have discovered may very well not be the cause of my original woes, but, could be the cause of several more woes if not taken care of, so ill deal with those first then see if I can troubleshoot more.

As for the dashpot-if I understand it's function correctly-it cant be that. The car randomly shuts off on its own at totally random times. Not under any sort of pattern/throttle position.

I really appreciate the help though guys! :D Next step in my book is to do some more drop testing, and then run seperate power/ground lines IF the issue occurs again.
 
Oct 11, 2005
3,815
13
38
Thousand Oaks, CA
Dashpot... that's a joke stemming from another thread where a code 12 was solved by adjusting the dashpot.

Well, if it really is 300ohm then you wouldn't push more than 7 mA through that wire during charging which would be a pretty obvious no charge condition.

Supposing for a moment, that you really do have dropouts on +B lasting nearly a second. Possible issues a would be a bad main relay, a crack in the +B wire somewhere that goes open circuit when stressed or flexed (e.g. engine movement) or an intermittent connector or fuse contact. Bypassing the loom per JJ with a temporary line is the best way to diagnose that problem.
 
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legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
I was wondering if that was a joke....too out of the loop here :p

and yeah, I don't think it was actually 300 ohms, but, the coating on it and grime of the wire caused it to be a pretty bad connection, and caused me to look at it some more, then discovering the melted portion of the stud its mounted on. It's getting too hot for some reason.
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
For some reason?

You really ought to forget resistance and do drop testing on low voltage high current circuits. And buy a decent meter for cryin' out loud. You seem plenty competent. No excuse for someone like that not to own quality test gear :)
 

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
its always for some reason!

but, I'm curious, why would drop testing be superior (directly, in this scenario) to resistance measurements? *especially* in a straight wire? Does it show things that resistance measurements wont?

and I'd love too! All my fun occurs at school though, so, I never feel the need to spend it at home xD
Its a shame my car gets all the boring stuff...
off topic, but, any you would specifically recommend off the top of your head, for around/under $150?
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
legolyle;1948075 said:
...why would drop testing be superior (directly, in this scenario) to resistance measurements? *especially* in a straight wire? Does it show things that resistance measurements wont?...

OK, so I was a little generous on the competent part. Appears more study is needed :)
 

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
ah, well, when you put it that way...

But I think I could still argue they both have their uses in a situation like this!
But I do see your [invisible] point. Sometimes it's just so difficult to force yourself to think things through before posting, in the hopes of having the answer given to you.

I'll be sure to do drop tests on it all though :p
 

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
So I finally got around to finishing up what I was doing. Replaced all the stuff I mentioned previously. Glad I did, the first couple feet of the wire that runs from the fuse box to the alternator was extremely rigid. Could've broken it with a couple bends if I tried.

I also ran a secondary power wire to the ECU, (piggybacked it off the +12V going to my amp., right under the passenger seat). and, no more code 11!
It's very weird how sporadic the issue was. Pretty sure this was the problem though! Driven it with the bypassed wire for several days now, not a single recurrence of code 11 or any other issue.

Got some new wire in to replace it too. I'm just curious, but, no one knows where to get terminals for the ECU connector right? :p

thanks for the assistance though guys!
 

legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
no! sorry, I was referring to bypassing +B/+B1, that wire. I don't think replacing the other one to the alternator did anything.

And yeah, I've stumbled across that site before....thanks though! I actually once managed to find a listing for the original ecu connectors on Tyco's site, I might try and find it again. See if it it'll sprout off to the ecu terminals.
 
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legolyle

hopeful
Mar 17, 2011
182
0
0
Jacksonville, Florida
no, haha, I'm going to re-run the wire through the harness as it is stock, hopefully. Any flaws with that plan? :p


also, just...for reference's sake, I think I found the terminals and the board connectors (not the male connectors, unfortunately) on tyco's site:

http://www.te.com/catalog/products/en?q=connectors+pulse+lock

Not sure if it's been listed on this site before, I could never find it...
 
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