6 speed conversion

[SupraMario]

sence im still in the planing stages of my engine plans i was wandering if a 6 speed would match up with a 7mgte, and if they did how hard would this be.
and has ne1 done this before, all the info i was using is gone from the old SM and i cant access SF anymore but never really used it for info ne ways.

thnx for the comments and all the help u guys have give to make this site kick ass for info.

 

[drunk_medic]

Won't work without extensive modification.
The getrag WILL bolt right up to a 1JZ or 2JZ, however.

 

[SupraMario]

whats that? getrag, im guessing thats a saying huh?
lol
well i want a 6 speed dont ask me y its just a thing i have, but the way i see it if im spending money i dont want to go the half ass way to where ill be like man i dont like wat i have done to it cause its not complete.
and i can get a 2jz from a lexus pretty easily.
i know a couple of Junk yard dealers.

 

[shaeff]

getrag is the 6 speed tranny used in mkiv TT supras. the lexus 2jz's are N/A's, so if you wanna go turbo, get a kit for it, or just get a 2jzgte.

rumor has it, you'd have to widen the tranny tunnel a little, but that might just be a rumor. also, the shifter will sit further back than where it does now, because the getrag is longer than the r154/w58.

-shaeff

 

[MKIIINA]

no real reason i think for the 6spd from the MK4 as it has the same final drive overall. Someone sat down and figured out that all they did with the 6spd over the 5spd was split the 3rd gear (iirc) into 3rd and 4th for better acceleration. also with the 6spd it wont fit correctly front to back as the shifter is a few inches further back on the 6spd compaired to the r154.


that being said i think its a cool idea but one that i decided wasnt worth the time and trouble to make fit in the end.

 

[NATAN666]

not worth it, but a sixth gear would be very handy. i remember the first time i took her close to redline in fifth, i was for sure feeling another gear.. maybe not to go faster, but so you can cruise at that speed without hearing your car rev the shit out of itself.

 

[Squid699]

no real reason i think for the 6spd from the MK4 as it has the same final drive overall. Someone sat down and figured out that all they did with the 6spd over the 5spd was split the 3rd gear (iirc) into 3rd and 4th for better acceleration. also with the 6spd it wont fit correctly front to back as the shifter is a few inches further back on the 6spd compaired to the r154.


that being said i think its a cool idea but one that i decided wasnt worth the time and trouble to make fit in the end.

I've heard the same about splitting a gear. Not really worth it, except just to say that you have the V160 Getrag in your car.....I'd like to hear from someone who has actually done it to see what is true and what isn't

How can the shifter be farther back? If the NA MKIV's have w58's too wouldn't the shifter holes line up?

EDIT: just checked www.toysport.com and compared the r154 to v160 gear ratios.........according to the chart, they did indeed split 2nd gear.
R154 V160
1st 3.30 3.83
2nd 1.95 2.36
3rd 1.34 1.68
4th 1.00 1.31
5th 0.75 1.00
6th - 0.79

 

[SupraMario]

wow great info, and the MKIV NAs had W58s in them damn thats kind of dumb i mean that tranny design would be old, and technology updates so fast im sure they could have come up with something else. hmm
so no one knows ne1 who has done this and another question.
if the "getrag" (i like that) sits further back than the r154, does this mean that the rear end of you car all that junk that hooks the tranny and wheels together wouldnt that have to be shortend?

 

[Ckanderson]

You dont have to widen the tunnel, and yes the shifter sits farther back.. look at a mk4 w58 in comparison to a mk3 w58 and you will see the diference. I just recently saw a 2jz mk3 with a v160.

Getrag is the company that MADE the v-160 it's a german company who also makes trannys for BMW's and the like.

MK4's final drive is 3.27:1 so you would need to somehow compensate for that.

 

[IJ.]

Squid: I'm pretty sure the Mk4 W58 has the shift mounted on an outrigger.

The Getrag swap didn't make a lot of sense unless I could source a set of diff gears to suit as first was so damn low.
(couldn't find a diff and the box was going to run me $6000 AUD second hand here and my brand new Tremec was only $4000 AUD)
<edit> LOL CK beat me to it while I was posting

 

[Squid699]

Yeah after doing some research after posting this, I noticed that the shifter is indeed farther back on the v160 and the conversion requires some custom welding to shorten it to fit the MKIII.....

the lower final drive on the MKIV is probably a contributing factor for the split gear. With the higher final drive on the MKIII (namely the 3.91) you'd be shifting way too often to make the v160 practical unless you import the final drive from a MKIV too....

 

[drunk_medic]

The getrag shifter bracket and rod have to be shortened ~4" to fit through the shifter hole in the MkIII. Very little "adjustment" is needed to the tranny tunnel to make this transmission fit the MkIII; I believe it's even less adjustment than is needed to the firewall for the 1JZ swap - just two firm taps with a mini sledgehammer in two spots of the tunnel.
As for the "benefits" of the swap, I would say that the ability to buy some nice carbon/carbon disc clutches that will hold insane HP levels, and the ability to hold this amount of power [even more than the R154, plus no thrust washer worries] on a stock tranny are very appealing. From what's been seen and heard, 1000+hp on a getrag is no problem, so long as you don't miss a shift while barreling down the 1320.

 

[CTsupra]

Yes, drunk_medic is correct about the 4" (exactly) needing to be cut from BOTH the bracket and linkage rod.

This is what Will Neely had to say about the getrag over at 7mpower:
"My thoughts are that an mkiii making 500rwhp would easily hand an mkiv making the same power its ass due to the short gearing of the mkiv. Reason being, the time it takes an mkiv to shift gears the mkiii is still running 3rd and pulling. Not to mention the stroke of the mkiii develops serious torque and believe me that gets the moving."

Now, my thoughts:
What does it take for an mkiii to hit 200mph? About 450hp with the 3.7 rear end if you do the math with the gearing at lets say 6250 redline? So, lets say you have this amount of hp or more, 8000rpm redline, and the facts you have just read about - I think we don't need a sixth gear. Also, 2jz + r154 = good times.

Furthermore, the getrag will not bolt up to the 7m bellhousing and I don't recall ANYBODY ever blowing up an r154 due to too much power. Correct me if I'am wrong, though. The r154 is a serious trans.

 

[Ckanderson]

^ MANY people have blown up the R-154... My r-154's syncro's are going out in 3rd gear.......... So I might see a v-160 in my future..

 

[Jeff Lange]

Furthermore, the getrag will not bolt up to the 7m bellhousing and I don't recall ANYBODY ever blowing up an r154 due to too much power. Correct me if I'am wrong, though. The r154 is a serious trans.

A lot of people have broken R154's. Mainly the 1st gear thrust washer.

 

[SupraMario]

yea i do recall many people talking about the r154 going out on them in the old SM.
so the R154 will bolt onto the 2j correct?
and as what im getting out of this is, if i did a 2j swap, its not worth the customization of the getrag to get it to fit.
NA 2js put out how much HP to the crank, then the r154 tranny decrease the HP by how much % when at the wheels?
thnx again guys, im really thinking about doing this 2j swap, my father and i are going to completely remake his 1956 buick, exterior interior engine, ect. and we have a new 2 car garage that my supra and his buick will be going in. 2 cars at once, O this is going to make my summer fun.

 

[IJ.]

After reading a bunch of dead 154 stories here and on SF it prompted me to go with the Tremec TKO/500.

 

[SupraMario]

Tremec TKO/500 is this direct or close to direct fitment and how much u pay for this tranny?

 

[IJ.]

Dead: There's a bunch of pics in my rebuild thread and descriptions of what it took to make it fit.

It's one of the best easiest swaps I've done as everything is in the right place.

 

[SupraMario]

cool ill check it out.

edit: ok i looked at it seems like a lot of work in customization and u have the tools to cut large sheets of metal, i dont so, i think im stuck
drunk medic i know ur doing a 2jz swap got ne suggestion
and as for Tranny setup what should i go for? (i dont want an Auto)