Wastegates..

[Supra_dan]

Alright. Something has been on my mind for a long time now, but I had forgotten about it until about 2 hours ago haha.

Just going to get it out in the open first. I hate (hate's a strong word..strongly dislike) screamer pipes.
I had an open wastegate on my talon. It was cool for about 6 days. Got tired of it everytime I went into boost.


Basically, when the time comes, I would like to upgrade my manifold and run a bigger turbo. However, they always seem to have a external waste gate flange on them.


I noticed a lot of bigger turbos don't have internal wastegates or what-have-you and that's why there's the ext,. wastegate.


So kind of two main questions:

-How do higher power/boosted factory vehicles not have external wastegates. Is the factory turbo just set-up with an efficient internal gate?



-I haven't done any real research yet but was wondering if anyone is well versed on the subject. Say I go to t3/t4 manifold or whatever, are there manifolds with out external gate flanges, and better yet, are there any aftermarket bigger turbos that have properly designed internal gates so I don't have to use an external? If worse comes to worse, I can just cut off the external flange on the manifold and weld it shut again, if there are options for internally gated turbos.


Sorry if this is not well put together. I'm rushing on my lunch break and just wanted to get this out there.

Thanks!

 

[hvyman]

You posted this in the wrong section,.

But all you need to do is reroute the wastegate dump back into the exhaust and then it will not be a screamer pipe.

and most factory turbos are tiny and have internal gates for simplicity and compactness.

 

[Jay C]

Check out the borg warner efr turbos. They have some nice features one of which is an internal wastegate. However as hvyman said you could always just reroute the wastegate pipe back into the downpipe.

 

[Supra_dan]

Ahh my apologies. To be honest.. I forgot about the sub sections! you just re-opened my eyes up again!
I get in a 'funk' as to where I just click general and technical forums heh
I'm scoping out all these new to me threads now




Anyways back on track.

I suppose I could just re-route.
Feel like that's cheating though heh.


Definitely going to do some research on this for curiosity sake

 

[toyotanos]

So here's what I've experienced in the wastegate department:

Stock turbos with stock internal wastegates work pretty well in stock form, with stock boost. Once you start to push the boost up, you gain power but your exhaust is holding you back. Once you upgrade the exhaust, the stock internal wastegate usually can't keep up and you get boost creep.

Aftermarket internal wastegates are a similar situation, even when they are designed to work with bigger exhaust, I've always experienced creep (even with my BOSS Sr.)

In my opinion, once you start to run higher boost on a bigger turbo (usually aftermarket) external is the way to go. I am personally using a TurboSmart Hypergate 45mm V-band wastegate and have been very happy with it. While I do creep when I'm trying to keep the boost low (~4-6psi creep by redline) it does beautifully when I really let the engine have the beans. Everything above 20psi is golden all the way up to the current maximum boost of 31lbs. All of this has been done on a 14 pound spring set, which I'm very happy about.

As for venting, I am currently running a screamer since it was the simplest to set up, although once I get the new 3.5" downpipe made, it will be recirculated.

Here's the only picture I have of it, shows that it's pretty toasty when it's operating!

 

[hvyman]

Ahh my apologies. To be honest.. I forgot about the sub sections! you just re-opened my eyes up again!
I get in a 'funk' as to where I just click general and technical forums heh
I'm scoping out all these new to me threads now




Anyways back on track.

I suppose I could just re-route.
Feel like that's cheating though heh.


Definitely going to do some research on this for curiosity sake

Dunno how you think it's cheating. Internal gates do the same thing.

 

[Supra_dan]

So here's what I've experienced in the wastegate department:

Stock turbos with stock internal wastegates work pretty well in stock form, with stock boost. Once you start to push the boost up, you gain power but your exhaust is holding you back. Once you upgrade the exhaust, the stock internal wastegate usually can't keep up and you get boost creep.

Aftermarket internal wastegates are a similar situation, even when they are designed to work with bigger exhaust, I've always experienced creep (even with my BOSS Sr.)

In my opinion, once you start to run higher boost on a bigger turbo (usually aftermarket) external is the way to go. I am personally using a TurboSmart Hypergate 45mm V-band wastegate and have been very happy with it. While I do creep when I'm trying to keep the boost low (~4-6psi creep by redline) it does beautifully when I really let the engine have the beans. Everything above 20psi is golden all the way up to the current maximum boost of 31lbs. All of this has been done on a 14 pound spring set, which I'm very happy about.

As for venting, I am currently running a screamer since it was the simplest to set up, although once I get the new 3.5" downpipe made, it will be recirculated.

Here's the only picture I have of it, shows that it's pretty toasty when it's operating!

It sure does look nice and pretty in there. Nice and snug too like it belongs in there.
and that's true too, definitely don't want any, or at least have minimal creeping issues.
Routing it to the Dp is obviously the best chouce for me. It's now just become a curiosity for me as to see if any aftermarket turbo companies offer internals.

Dunno how you think it's cheating. Internal gates do the same thing.

I meant cheating in the sense of me personally. Not literal cheating haha.

But again, whenever the time comes to upgrade, seems i'll be doing the recirc.

 

[hvyman]

Lots of companies have internal turbos.

Borgwarner efr turbos are very nice.

 

[IJ.]

IG WG's are a PITA, if you set enough preload to stop the part throttle low boost lag as it blows the flapper off it's seat you then get creep up top... ok for stock or production cars, heavily modded go an External Gate every time..

 

[Supra_dan]

Yeah I'm starting to see external is the way to go.

Nothing a little fabbing of pipes can't fix

 

[toyotanos]

Just make sure its easy to get to, as that makes changing springs so much easier. Also, V-band is the best attachment method I've ever seen- so easy to work with!

 

[Supra_dan]

Ya know, I've been doing some looking and...Why the heck does not everything use v-clamp. It seems so simple and effective

 

[slapsticksammy]

sorry, i' new to this but does someone have a sound clip of a screamer pipe...

 

[hvyman]

YouTube open wastegate.