Tokico+lowering springs VS. Billstein+stock springs

[IwantMKIII]

I'm confused on this matter and i need clarification.

Things I know:

Tockico Illuminas are TEMS compatible

Billsteins are adjustable in height but are not TEMS compatible

My car needs a new suspension setup

Now I have a few questions here:

1. How much do the adjustable billsteins adjust? Do they get as low as lets say Tokico's with lowering springs? Keep in mind, this isn't adjustability on the shock, its overall ride height i'm interested in. Please present pics if available.

2. Illuminas are TEMS compatible but quite a bit more expensive then regular tociko blues, would the blues with lowering springs be similar to billsteins with stock springs? I realize stock springs are progressive but how would the ride between the combinations differ? Are Illuminas with lowering springs POTENTIALLY stiffer then blues with lowering springs?



To clarify, my ultimate goal is to find out whether billsteins with stock springs will give me similar performance and lowering characteristics as tociko blues with lowering springs or tokico illuminas with lowering springs without the added expense of lowering springs themselves.

NOTE: assume eibach as the lowering spring (if needed) as they seem to be a very popular choice

Thanks for any info.

 

[gaboonviper85]

What about bilsteen with drop springs also....will the bilsteen be able to give even more adjustability then the drop spring alone?

I also need as much info on this....I'm in the same boat as you.

 

[Wiisass]

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier, I was hoping people with more experience with lowering springs might be able to give some insight on the setups they are running.

Things you need to remember are that lowering springs are generally progressive, so they will allow the car to sit lower at static height and then they get stiffer as they compress. This keeps usually keeps them from bottoming out the damper. So stock springs lowered with Bilsteins will most likely bottom out pretty easily in the front. The front springs on the stock dampers are preloaded a good bit to help keep them off the bumpstops. But I think they're pretty much on the bumpstops under hard driving anyway. So if you lower them, you will be taking away shock travel which is already at a premium in the front.

You also need to decide if you want TEMS or you don't. If you do, you have one options. If you don't, you have more options. Everyone should know by now that I am a fan of the Bilstein dampers, the off the shelf ones are good for a simple setup, the only downside is you can't go too low. You can lower the car, a little bit, but it will also depend on what spring rates you're running. And with the common lowering springs not giving good data on their rates, it's hard to say if you can lower it much more than intended based on the stock spring perch location.

I would not try and lower the car on stock spring rates on OE replacement dampers. I think it will bottom out pretty much all the time.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier, I was hoping people with more experience with lowering springs might be able to give some insight on the setups they are running.

Things you need to remember are that lowering springs are generally progressive, so they will allow the car to sit lower at static height and then they get stiffer as they compress. This keeps usually keeps them from bottoming out the damper. So stock springs lowered with Bilsteins will most likely bottom out pretty easily in the front. The front springs on the stock dampers are preloaded a good bit to help keep them off the bumpstops. But I think they're pretty much on the bumpstops under hard driving anyway. So if you lower them, you will be taking away shock travel which is already at a premium in the front.

You also need to decide if you want TEMS or you don't. If you do, you have one options. If you don't, you have more options. Everyone should know by now that I am a fan of the Bilstein dampers, the off the shelf ones are good for a simple setup, the only downside is you can't go too low. You can lower the car, a little bit, but it will also depend on what spring rates you're running. And with the common lowering springs not giving good data on their rates, it's hard to say if you can lower it much more than intended based on the stock spring perch location.

I would not try and lower the car on stock spring rates on OE replacement dampers. I think it will bottom out pretty much all the time.

Thanks this is what i needed to know. I will most likely be going eibach pros with blues. I don't think i can budget illuminas with everything else i want at the same time. Any objections to this setup? Currently i'm creating quite an extensive thread about suspension in the general section, if you have anything to add it would be appreciated. Once its more completed i'd like it to get stickied in here, just as long as people keep contributing that is...

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73496

 

[Wiisass]

I don't know enough about the blues to say either way. But I really like the Bilsteins. Are the blues much cheaper? If the price isn't that much, I would recommend the Bilsteins.

And I did post some suggestions in there. I think the post got buried between some other ones though. Just some things that would make the comparisons a little better.

I will post some of my stuff in there later.

Tim

 

[bhg4life]

I have the Bilstein / stock setup. I went out to measure the fender well gap as I have them one the lowest setting. 235 / 40 - 18 front and 275 / 35 - 18 rear.

Front: 1.25"
Rear: 2"

I have not had any rubbing / bump stop issues. These struts are very firm but do absorb the bumps quite well. Sorry I don't have any MKIII comparible suspension experience.

 

[IwantMKIII]

I don't know enough about the blues to say either way. But I really like the Bilsteins. Are the blues much cheaper? If the price isn't that much, I would recommend the Bilsteins.

And I did post some suggestions in there. I think the post got buried between some other ones though. Just some things that would make the comparisons a little better.

I will post some of my stuff in there later.

Tim

cool thanks, ill look again for your post

Tociko blues are significantly cheaper than billsteins or illuminas. about 220 is the cheapest i found them for, entire set. From what i've read though they are superior to the GR-2's in the same price category.