time for a better setup. need input!

loki2043

loki2043

New Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Portland, OR
okay, so im getting tired of running around with one speaker up front that sounds like shit. (4 year old 6.5 boston, was expensive at the time) and 2 blown back speakers.

ive got a cd6445 eclipse deck.

now, this speaker distorts at any decent ammount of volume and there is like no base at all. i dont get it.

anyway, ive been looking at new speakers and an amp. ive been to a few car audio shops and they all have the same shit it seems like, and when the sales guy just kinda says "here these sound good, and they will sound sound different in your car though!", i have no clue as to what to look for. i dont know shit about speakers or amps. all i know is that most of the stuff sounded like shit. excpet for the focals that werre like 200 a pair at car toys..

i listen to techno/rock and a little bit of other stuff.

whats a great amp that i can use for the front speakers and a sub? i dont care about the backs and will prolly cut them out.
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
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Centreville, VA
So, your current setup consists of a pair of 6.5" Boston Acoustics up front and stock speakers in the rear running directly off an Eclipse headunit, correct?

How are you running the Bostons currently? Are they crossed over at all, or are you running them full range (I'm not familiar with the CD6445 in particular, so I don't know if it has any built-in cross-over)?

I assume you plan to keep the Eclipse headunit? As I said, I'm not really familiar with that particular unit... Does it have at least two pre-outs and a subwoofer level control?

Sorry to back track a bit, I'd like to find out a bit more about your current setup before going further.

Thanks,

-James

PS--> You can easily do better than the JBL amp... The Focals are beautiful speakers, but I get the impression you aren't looking to spend $200... We'll get to those issues later.
 
loki2043

loki2043

New Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Portland, OR
okay, so im currently running only one speaker in the front(dont ask) and yes its the boston acoustic, and its got a tweeter with a crossover box for that.

i made some mounts out of mdf for the speaker. the eclipse unit has everything as i just bought it last febuary and paid too much for it. and yes i want to use it.

i dont know if the unit has a built in crossover. i do belive it does but i dont know what half that shit in there is.


as with speakers, i dont want to spend money and get shitty quallity. but im not looking to spend 400 a pair either.the focals i listed were sounding pretty good. so a 200 dollar range would be acceptable.

now whats wrong with the jbl amp? its type D if i remember correctly.
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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Centreville, VA
Ok, I saw you plan to cut out the rears... I support that idea 100%, as the front stage can be pretty good in our cars and the rear speaker placement is worthless.

Are you planning to run one amp (the two fronts and a sub on a 4 channel) or two (a dedicated 2 channel for the fronts and a 2 channel / monoblock for the sub)?

Elipse generally makes pretty good quality units, so it should be fine to stick with what you already have (and I also assume the CD6xxx series is upper middle range).

The Focals are great speakers. The ones you have listed are coaxials, but they are good quality and will sound excellent if powered properly. DO NOT GET THEM AT CARTOYS (or any other retailer). You can get MUCH better deals off eBay or other wholesalers if you keep a watch for a while. Here's a link to an eBay auction for your Focals NEW, shipped for $135. I'm sure you can do better if you watch the site for a while and see what pops up, but I've done business with this dude before and he did what I needed (and he has well over 10,000 positive feedback to show for it).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Focal-Access-16...ryZ14942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for the amp(s)... You certainly do not want to run any full range speaker on a Class D amp... ESPECIALLY Focals or other decent speakers. You need a good quality, Class A/B (Preferably A weighted) amp to run them with the clean power and musical quality they need. Class D(istortion) amps are intended to be used for Subwoofer Monoblock amps only... They are VERY efficient power wise, but they tear apart the sound signal (which is not as noticable in the low frequency range, but very noticable in the mids to highs).

Let me know how many amps you plan to run and I'll go into more detail... I, personally, am running one 4 channel amp in the method I mention above... It saves weight and space, and I'm squeezing around 500 CLEAN Watts RMS out of it (85x2 + 300x1 VERY underrated Watts RMS rated @ 12V)... but you need a good amp to do this properly.

Oh, and JBL amps just aren't that good... If you want to compete in SPL "burping" competitions, they produce a good amount of juice, but if you want good quality, stable power you should look elsewhere.

-James
 
loki2043

loki2043

New Member
Jan 23, 2006
645
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Portland, OR
theprodigy79 said:
Ok, I saw you plan to cut out the rears... I support that idea 100%, as the front stage can be pretty good in our cars and the rear speaker placement is worthless.

Are you planning to run one amp (the two fronts and a sub on a 4 channel) or two (a dedicated 2 channel for the fronts and a 2 channel / monoblock for the sub)?

Elipse generally makes pretty good quality units, so it should be fine to stick with what you already have (and I also assume the CD6xxx series is upper middle range).

The Focals are great speakers. The ones you have listed are coaxials, but they are good quality and will sound excellent if powered properly. DO NOT GET THEM AT CARTOYS (or any other retailer). You can get MUCH better deals off eBay or other wholesalers if you keep a watch for a while. Here's a link to an eBay auction for your Focals NEW, shipped for $135. I'm sure you can do better if you watch the site for a while and see what pops up, but I've done business with this dude before and he did what I needed (and he has well over 10,000 positive feedback to show for it).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Focal-Access-16...ryZ14942QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for the amp(s)... You certainly do not want to run any full range speaker on a Class D amp... ESPECIALLY Focals or other decent speakers. You need a good quality, Class A/B (Preferably A weighted) amp to run them with the clean power and musical quality they need. Class D(istortion) amps are intended to be used for Subwoofer Monoblock amps only... They are VERY efficient power wise, but they tear apart the sound signal (which is not as noticable in the low frequency range, but very noticable in the mids to highs).

Let me know how many amps you plan to run and I'll go into more detail... I, personally, am running one 4 channel amp in the method I mention above... It saves weight and space, and I'm squeezing around 500 CLEAN Watts RMS out of it (85x2 + 300x1 VERY underrated Watts RMS rated @ 12V)... but you need a good amp to do this properly.

Oh, and JBL amps just aren't that good... If you want to compete in SPL "burping" competitions, they produce a good amount of juice, but if you want good quality, stable power you should look elsewhere.

-James
Click to expand...

i want to keep the costs lower so i plan on using a 4 chan amp. for sub and speaks
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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Centreville, VA
To run the Focals properly and have some spare Watts for a decent sub I'd check out:

Audison LRx 4.300
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audison-LRX-4-3...ryZ39739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Diamond Audio D3 500.4
(no reference)

Focal FP 4.75
http://cgi.ebay.com/FOCAL-FP-4-75-F...ryZ64570QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

JL Audio 450/4
http://cgi.ebay.com/JL-AUDIO-450-4-...ryZ39739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

All of those amps are very clean, versatile amps, but they all go for a bit more than the JBL you were looking at... They are all fantastic amps; you can't go wrong with any of them... I'd advise you to spend a bit more and do it right the first time rather than making due with something that won't run what you have efficiently and having to waste money upgrading later...

If you TRUELY don't want to spend that much, then the BARE MINIMUM I'd run the Focals on (to have them powered efficiently and have a bit of power leftover for a sub) would be something like the JL 300/4

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-JL-Audio-30...ryZ39739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I would NOT go with anything less to run the Focals... If you don't want to spend the money I'd downgrade the speakers and go from there... But honestly, If you've heard the Focals and are happy with them, $400-$600 is VERY good for them running on any of those amps... eD amps are alright, but I'd put any of the above amps well above their 4 channel offering for your purposes...

-James

PS--> Also keep in mind that you can probably get ANY of the amps mentioned above at a lesser price than those auction links... Those were just the cheapest "Buy It Now" auctions (for auction price and shipping combined) that I came across on a quick search for NEW items. You can save more money by stalking a few auctions and bidding last minute, or purchasing used (most amps will take a beating and last a very long time, and all of these are "newer" series, so the only thing you'd have to watch out for if you care is cosmetic damage). A few of the Buy It Now auctions above have a much lower introductory bid, so if you just wait it out for them you can probably get them much cheaper as well...
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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44
Centreville, VA
I was just thinking... If you're looking at a lower price range, a very good alternate to the JL 300/4 would be the Alpine MRV-F545 (or the previous MRV-F540). I don't usually recommend Alpine amplifiers, however both of these are VERY musical amps (actually moreso than the JL, a bit less than the Audison, Focal and Diamond offerings) and offer great performance for the $$$. They claim a higher output than the JL, however they realistically produce about the same (the JLs actually pack a bit more punch). These two amps are from the Alpine V12 series, not the V-Power... The V-Powers are CRAP, similar to the JL "e" series... Ignore them... But the V12 series was actually a very solid series.

Anyhow, here are a couple links:

MRV-F540 (previous model, harder to find new)
http://www.sbhcorp.com/scripts/homeViewItem-473.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alpine-V12-MRV-...ryZ39739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

MRV-F545
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALPINE-MRV-...ryZ39739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-James
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
0
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44
Centreville, VA
Ah, good deal. I am familiar with the 8445, it's a pretty nice unit, and definitely has all the features you'll need to run this system properly.

The JL is a great "bang for your buck" amp, especially considering what you can get it for on eBay and such. It is a good, clean, powerful amp that has a huge tollerance for many different setups, so I think you should be happy with it.

As for the Focals; The speakers you are looking at are great sounding, very smooth and musical. They aren't as "active" as some of their competition, instead offering flatter response that is more "true" to the original source (this is true for other Focal series as well, although these are more lively than the higher range Focals). They are very good speakers for those who listen to jazz, classical, techno, dance or other "filtered" or "clean source" music (although they are great for all types of music when set up properly), or those who listen to their music at moderate levels and are in it for the detail rather than shaking the block (don't get me wrong, you can get them loud and clean). As far as comparison to other Focal speakers, I believe you will be very happy with these. I've heard them set up in a Civic and they sounded phenominal run on the Audison amp I referenced above. The higher level Focal speakers are a bit more picky power wise, and are more of a pain in the ass to set up properly and get the most out of... So for what it sounds like you are trying to do, the ones you have heard / picked out already are a very good choice.

-James
 
loki2043

loki2043

New Member
Jan 23, 2006
645
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Portland, OR
okay sweet.. as for last thing, what do i need to do to get these speakers to breathe properly? the mounts i made is just a hole in some mdf and a speaker mounted in it. do i need to make it enclosed? or is being open out to the rest of the door going to be fine?
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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Centreville, VA
Are your MDF mounts located in the factory locations (with the rectangular "chamber" behind them where the factory speaker pods were located), or are they elsewhere?

I'm using the 6.5" speaker pods from the '91+ chopped up and ground out to fit my speakers properly... I'm not currently using any sound deadener, and I haven't taken any extra measures to seal my speakers, they are just kinda sealing themselves into those pits in the door at the moment but they still sound great (I used some weather stripping around the base of the speaker pods to seal against the plastic liner that covers the inner door frame, and I'm letting the plastic liner do the rest until I find the time to take everything apart, run all new wires and amp them)...

You could utilize the speaker chamber by fabricating a MDF sheet to seal over it and have that as the "box" for your speaker. If you have torn your plastic liner, you can always use sound deadener to seal over any holes or openings in the door frame. Any of this will make a difference in the sound quality and responsiveness of your speakers.

Where is your current MDF piece / speaker location? How is it set up? Do you have any pictures?
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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Centreville, VA
The site won't load for me. I'd just utilize the factory location; it should be very easy to "seal" and make them sound very good. If you can't seal them they'll still sound good, just a bit less bass response (which you'll have a sub for anyhow).
 
loki2043

loki2043

New Member
Jan 23, 2006
645
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Portland, OR
cool. im using the factory location, just with wood mounts with a hole cut in the middle. and a speaker screwed into it. ill prolly figure it out more when i get the speakers.

also, ive heard there isnt much room under the pass. seat. where is the ideal locatioon to put the amp? i was thinking of making a mount under the trunk wood plank thing where the spare used to be. as there is about 3 or 4 inches available ( not the spare tire well)
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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44
Centreville, VA
Yeah, there isn't much space under the seats. If you mount the amp under the faux trunk floor just make sure it has sufficient ventilation. Ideal areas? Just be creative... you know how you want it to look, that's all preference. The JL amps don't have large footprints, so that should help you out quite a bit.
 
theprodigy79

theprodigy79

Irish Cream
Mar 5, 2007
221
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44
Centreville, VA
I checked out your link again and this time the site loaded. It looks like you have the right idea with the speaker installation, they should sound great as you have them setup. Did you use weather stripping or anything along the rear of the wood to help "seal" the wood panels against the door frame? If not, it may help a bit!

It looks like you have some initiative and common sense, so I think you'll do well with the rest of your installation :cool:

Good luck, and have fun with it!

-James
 
Anth505

Anth505

Failte
Apr 8, 2007
105
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Toronto Ontario
theprodigy79 has given you excellent advice!!! I'm currently running 2 Jl amps. A 300/4 powering Boston Acoustics 5.5 component in custom kick panels and Boston 4x6 in the factory rear location. Also a 500/1 for the subs.

I've had this system now for about 5 years and it's been flawless! The 300/4 will suit your needs just fine and you're gonna love it!!
 
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