sway bars for koni/eibachs

[jdc4357]

Hi,
What would you guys go with (sway bars) to match with koni yellows and eibachs on a mk3. I have 245/40/17 on the rear and 235/45/17 on the front. I dont race at the track, but I like to drive like an idiot once in a while.

I've read that the whiteline adjustables are the most stiff, but also read that being too stiff can be bad. Just kind of looking for what seems to feel the best or matches what I've got.

thanks,
jamieC

 

[ma71supraturbo]

To oversimplify, there are two approaches:

Stiff spring, soft bar
Soft spring, stiff bar

Your eibachs would fall into the soft category imo (roughly equivalent to 500/200# linear springs). That would make the front just a little stiffer than stock, and the rear about the same (a little stiffer for pre 89 cars, a littler softer for 89+ cars).


If it were me and you had to buy a matched set, I'd go with the Tanabe. They're half the weight of the other choices, and they focus mainly on stiffening the rear (~120% stiffer than stock as opposed to ~20% stiffer up front).

My thoughts are that the stock front bar is actually pretty good, its the rear that needs the most stiffening -- especially with the eibach's soft rear springs and your staggered tires. Plus, with the softest front bar of all the aftermarket offerings, the ride quality shouldn't be that much worse than with stock sways.


My second choice for a matched set would be the ST's. They should be about the same improvement up front, but not quite as stiff in the rear as the Tanabes.


If you didn't mind buying brand A front, and brand B rear, then I'd recommend the Tanabe front, Whiteline rear. The whiteline front bar is just too stiff for most setups imo (I'd pretty much only recommend it for stock, whiteline, or tokico springs), but the rear bar offers more adjustments that lie in what I feel is the appropriate stiffness range (which are just a little softer than tanabe's rear bar)



cliffnotes on my estimated best setup for you:

1) Tanabe front, Whiteline rear
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2) Tanabe front/rear
3) ST front/rear
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4) Whiteline front/rear


2 & 3 are really close and could go either way, but I think the Tanabe/whiteline combo would be best by a significant margin.



Again, this is just my best guess. You might try contacting Wiisass as I believe he had some sort of FEA program that would aid in making these types of decisions.

 

[ValgeKotkas]

What do you think, would the Konis on the stiffest setting be better than on the softest ? When on Eibachs.

I have the same suspension combo and thoght I have too much body roll and the fronts don't have good grip (though probably 80% of the cause are cheap tires...) and just now thought about swaybars. So this thread came exactly like ordered

 

[ma71supraturbo]

Stiffening your shocks won't decrease body roll -- it just slows it (making it *feel* like there is less).

Ideally you should adjust your shocks so that they are matched to your springs. I do this by starting off on the softest setting, and driving quickly over a bump near my house (not a speed bump -- this is more like a raised railroad crossing, only smoother). I slowly increase dampening at each corner until the car goes down, and the up just once after the bump (a tiny 2nd oscillation is OK if the bump is severe). I may make fine adjustments later on, but usually this comes as close as you're going to get without race equipment. Keep in mind that it isn't terribly uncommon for you to have each shock set to a completely different setting (3 clicks on one shock is not always equal to 3 clicks on another shock -- even the same model)


From there, the only time I adjust my dampeners is if I need to make a crude adjustment to the car's balance (and even then, only after I've adjusted tire pressures). In that case, I generally will stiffen the end of the car that is opposite to the end that needs more traction. For example, if I'm pushing/understeering, I'll stiffen the rear. If I can't go any stiffer in the rear, then I'll soften the front (though for a track I'd generally rather be overdamped than under so I try to stiffen first).

 

[ValgeKotkas]

Bad thing is, the yellow konis have to be deinstalled to adjust and they don't klick , so that's why I haven't tried it already. So I think it's logical to adjust to either full soft or full stiff...

Thanks for the info!

 

[ValgeKotkas]

What does our new SME think about sways for Eibachs ?
As oversteer is preferred (versus understeer) I'm leaning towards full set of ST's (adjustable, cheaper) or Tanabe (lighter, but maybe better quality?).

 

[supraguru05]

What does our new SME think about sways for Eibachs ?
As oversteer is preferred (versus understeer) I'm leaning towards full set of ST's (adjustable, cheaper) or Tanabe (lighter, but maybe better quality?).

A neutral car is preferred over a over-steering car, and if you cant have a neutral car it is better to have a slightly under-steering car. The suspension techniques bars are fine with the Koni Eibach setup. As a matter of fact I ran that exact setup for years. I would leave the rear bar on soft unless you are running R compound tires. Also you might want to go ahead and reinforce the rear end link brackets to prevent them from cracking.

 

[ValgeKotkas]

Yes, neutral is best of course What I ment was I THINK (!) I'd personally prefer oversteer to understeer.
So you say ST's are best bang for the buck and leaving them on the softest would make the car near neutral?
Reinforcing will be done, but is there a point for BIC endlinks or will the pre 89 stock ones do fine? (extra fine-tuning capabilities?)

Thanks a lot !

 

[supraguru05]

Yes, neutral is best of course What I ment was I THINK (!) I'd personally prefer oversteer to understeer.
So you say ST's are best bang for the buck and leaving them on the softest would make the car near neutral?
Reinforcing will be done, but is there a point for BIC endlinks or will the pre 89 stock ones do fine? (extra fine-tuning capabilities?)

Thanks a lot !

You can induce your own over steer. When refering to a cars balance you think of it as I am going around a skid pad when the car starts slipping free which end comes around first. This does not refer to the cars behavior in slaloms or other combined events such as trail braking etc. So a car that is neutral can be very tail happy.

You don't adjust the sway bar using end links other than detaching them and moving their position on the bar. I.E. end link length does not affect sway bar stiffness appreciably. That said the factory end links tend to rust and the allen heads strip out of the middle making removing them difficult, so if you have the money the BIC end links are a good investment.

 

[ValgeKotkas]

Learned a lot today. Thanks!

 

[SupraRon]

...That said the factory end links tend to rust and the allen heads strip out of the middle making removing them difficult, so if you have the money the BIC end links are a good investment.

Thread revival!!

I'm trying to remove the stock sway bars. It appears mine are pretty rusted and the bolt and nut are just spinning. The allen heads aren't stripped yet! What is the best method to removing these? I'm thinking of replacing them with the BIC ones.

 

[Canuckrz]

Reading through the post not much at all is mentioned about the shocks effecting the sway bar choice? Is that an absolute no correlation or do they just not effect the choice all that much?