Oil Sample Report

[swaq]

I just got my oil report back from Blackstone Labs. Apparently my lead count is a bit high... I used the same oil in my oil change, should I wait till the next change to try a different oil?

Anything else stand out here?

 

[jdub]

Actually all of your wear metals are on the high side. Lead, copper, and tin indicate bearing wear...all of your levels in these metals are pushing the max for what you want to see. Chromium is from the rings...iron is from the cylinder walls, cam shaft, crank, and valves. Aluminum is from the head and pistons.

I see you are using Mobil 1 0W-40...note the hot viscosity dropped to 12.8 cst from the 14.0 the oil had when new. The add pack on the sample is far from used up...next time get a TBN done.

A couple of questions:
- I saw from when you got the car from FL, you've got about 150K miles on the car. What about the motor? Was it rebuilt and when? If it was rebuilt, what bearings, pistons, and rings were used?

- Are you using the stock oil cooler? Any mods to the oil system? What are your pressures at idle and 3000 rpm?

- You're using an Apexi intake...is this the gauze/oil type? Your silicon levels concern me...that is an indication of a poor air filter. Fine dirt/sand can cause this and cause excessive wear in the motor. Since you have high wear metals across the board, this is something I would look at.

- When you took the sample, was it hot, been run in the last hour and took the sample mid stream when you drained the oil? Did you use the Blackstone sample kit? I see you have a Futumo now...that will make taking samples easier, but you have to let some oil drain before you fill the sample bottle.

Answer all this and we'll go from there.

 

[swaq]

Actually all of your wear metals are on the high side. Lead, copper, and tin indicate bearing wear...all of your levels in these metals are pushing the max for what you want to see. Chromium is from the rings...iron is from the cylinder walls, cam shaft, crank, and valves. Aluminum is from the head and pistons.

I see you are using Mobil 1 0W-40...note the hot viscosity dropped to 12.8 cst from the 14.0 the oil had when new. The add pack on the sample is far from used up...next time get a TBN done.

Okay. So I should probably change it earlier?

A couple of questions:
- I saw from when you got the car from FL, you've got about 150K miles on the car. What about the motor? Was it rebuilt and when? If it was rebuilt, what bearings, pistons, and rings were used?

The head gasket was replaced. It was found to be leaking in 2003. From the records looks like it was replaced at Marietta Toyota, Inc. in Georgia for almost $2000 (wow). From the invoice, it looks like in addition to the head gasket they replaced spark plugs, plug wires, cylinder head seals, and water pump. Hmm, looks like another head gasket was purchased in 2005, however I can't find any records about this one being installed... No mention of a rebuild or bearings/pistons/rings, as far as I can tell.

- Are you using the stock oil cooler? Any mods to the oil system? What are your pressures at idle and 3000 rpm?

I believe I have a stock oil system. According to the stock gauge, my idle pressure is around 20 psi, and 3000 rpm is 50 psi (from memory). I can verify this on my drive home today.

- You're using an Apexi intake...is this the gauze/oil type? Your silicon levels concern me...that is an indication of a poor air filter. Fine dirt/sand can cause this and cause excessive wear in the motor. Since you have high wear metals across the board, this is something I would look at.

I think I actually have an AEM filter. It is kind of a white/gray color, and looks a bit dirty.

- When you took the sample, was it hot, been run in the last hour and took the sample mid stream when you drained the oil? Did you use the Blackstone sample kit? I see you have a Futumo now...that will make taking samples easier, but you have to let some oil drain before you fill the sample bottle.

I followed the directions on the Blackstone site. I had driven around for at least a half hour before changing the oil. I used the Blackstone sample kit and let about a third to half of the oil drain before taking the sample.

Answer all this and we'll go from there.

Thanks for your help.

 

[jdub]

With the numbers you show for additives, you could actually go longer on this oil
A TBN would be the deciding factor...if it was above 4 or so, no doubt this oil is still good.

OK...my thoughts were if the motor was rebuilt, you might have the metals showing from the break-in...not the case. Your pressure is good too. Wanted to check and be sure you didn't contaminate the sample by accident...doesn't appear you did.

The air filter...is it one you have to oil like the K&N? If so, it is crap...all of the oil/gauze/foam type air filters are terrible at keeping debris out of the motor. That would help explain your high silicon levels and would cause the wear metals to be high too due to basically "fine sanding" the inside of your engine. If you want to run a cone type filter, give the AEM Dryflow a try...you'll need to know the diameter of your intake adapter to the AFM:
AEM Dryflow

Based on your discription of the filter, you might already have a AEM DryFlow

More info on air filters:
Air Filter Test


Do you have some of this oil (same batch) left over from the change? It might be a good idea to send a virgin sample (VOA) to Blackstone to see what wear metals are present in the oil. Then take another used sample (UOA) after 2500 miles to compare. The levels present in the VAO can be subtracted from the UAO to get a really accurate picture.

Of course, this motor has a lot of miles on it...doesn't mean it's going to go soon, but as things loosen up inside you get more wear. The gasoline you're showing in the oil can come from blow by on the rings...if you're running rich, it will be worse and you can actually be washing the cylinder walls down also causing additional wear. If you're running rich, fix it.

If your next set of analysis (both a VOA and UOA) shows the same results, I'd consider changing oil too. Something that is a PAO oil might be helpful (like German Castrol). BTW - what oil filter are you using?

 

[starscream5000]

More info on air filters:
Air Filter Test

Nice read John, I just found my choice of air filter for my freshly rebuild motor (when it's done that is ).

 

[swaq]

With the numbers you show for additives, you could actually go longer on this oil
A TBN would be the deciding factor...if it was above 4 or so, no doubt this oil is still good.

Oops, misread what you wrote there. I changed the oil because I'm moving to Tucson soon and I'm not sure when I'll be able to change it again.

OK...my thoughts were if the motor was rebuilt, you might have the metals showing from the break-in...not the case. Your pressure is good too. Wanted to check and be sure you didn't contaminate the sample by accident...doesn't appear you did.

The air filter...is it one you have to oil like the K&N? If so, it is crap...all of the oil/gauze/foam type air filters are terrible at keeping debris out of the motor. That would help explain your high silicon levels and would cause the wear metals to be high too due to basically "fine sanding" the inside of your engine. If you want to run a cone type filter, give the AEM Dryflow a try...you'll need to know the diameter of your intake adapter to the AFM:
AEM Dryflow

Based on your discription of the filter, you might already have a AEM DryFlow

More info on air filters:
Air Filter Test

Yeah, those look like my filter, so I probably have the AEM. What's the best way to clean one of these?

Do you have some of this oil (same batch) left over from the change? It might be a good idea to send a virgin sample (VOA) to Blackstone to see what wear metals are present in the oil. Then take another used sample (UOA) after 2500 miles to compare. The levels present in the VAO can be subtracted from the UAO to get a really accurate picture.

I don't have any oil left from the change.

Of course, this motor has a lot of miles on it...doesn't mean it's going to go soon, but as things loosen up inside you get more wear. The gasoline you're showing in the oil can come from blow by on the rings...if you're running rich, it will be worse and you can actually be washing the cylinder walls down also causing additional wear. If you're running rich, fix it.

How can I tell if I'm running rich? I have an atmospherically vented BOV so I've been considering a MAFT Pro so I can keep it from dying occasionally when I let off the gas and push in the clutch. So perhaps that and some tuning would be good?

If your next set of analysis (both a VOA and UOA) shows the same results, I'd consider changing oil too. Something that is a PAO oil might be helpful (like German Castrol). BTW - what oil filter are you using?

How is Amsoil? I'm using Wix filters.

 

[jdub]

So you're moving to my neck of the woods...I live North of Phoenix

AEM sells a cleaning kit for that filter...you can find it on the AEM site.

I would run the Mobil 1 till you get out here and get another UOA done at 2500 miles. Oil wise, give the GC a try...Amsoil is good, but you will pay more for it for no additional benefit. Keep in mind Mobil 1 is a Grp III base stock oil...both GC and Amsoil are Grp IV PAO based and the add pack on GC is a bit better. You may have to try a couple of oils to find one that suits your needs...the oil analysis will tell the tale. The good news on this UOA is you don't have coolant in your oil...that is a very good thing!

Wix is an excellent filter...you could try a PureOne though. PureOne filters have a bit finer media and will catch smaller particles.

Tuning wise, you need a a wideband O2...that will tell you if you are running rich. I do believe the MAFT Pro can control fuel as well as boost. You can also switch over to speed density as well...read up on it to be sure.

 

[swaq]

So you're moving to my neck of the woods...I live North of Phoenix

My fiancee is doing grad school at the U of A. We're getting married in January and then I'll be moving down there.

AEM sells a cleaning kit for that filter...you can find it on the AEM site.

This? http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=102

I would run the Mobil 1 till you get out here and get another UOA done at 2500 miles. Oil wise, give the GC a try...Amsoil is good, but you will pay more for it for no additional benefit. Keep in mind Mobil 1 is a Grp III base stock oil...both GC and Amsoil are Grp IV PAO based and the add pack on GC is a bit better. You may have to try a couple of oils to find one that suits your needs...the oil analysis will tell the tale. The good news on this UOA is you don't have coolant in your oil...that is a very good thing!

How much oil should I let drain before taking a sample if I'm not changing the oil? Where is a good place to buy German Castrol? What viscosities can you get German Castrol in?

Wix is an excellent filter...you could try a PureOne though. PureOne filters have a bit finer media and will catch smaller particles.

I bought four Wix filters, so I have two left.

Tuning wise, you need a a wideband O2...that will tell you if you are running rich. I do believe the MAFT Pro can control fuel as well as boost. You can also switch over to speed density as well...read up on it to be sure.

I've read up a bit on the MAFT Pro, I was planning on switching to speed density. I was hoping to avoid spending much money before I get a job though...


I double checked my oil pressure on the drive home today. Once warm it was just over 50 psi at 3000 rpm, and about 20 psi while idling.

 

[jdub]

Tucson is a nice town...you'll like it down there and it doesn't get *quite* as hot as it does in Phoenix. You might want to put a dual core radiator at the top of your wish list for the Supra (I have a CSF)...your gonna need the cooling capacity when it's 110 deg outside...might want to swap to a 180 deg thermostat too (Stant Superstat) and cut the jiggle valve off for a bit of constant flow. You have till April 08 before it starts getting really hot

Yep, that's the AEM cleaning kit...just make sure you get the right one.

Here's the GC threads...you should be able to find GC at AutoZone in Tucson:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55580

I talk about GC starting at post #12 on this one:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38768


The fuel dilution you are experiencing I suspect is due to blow by on your cylinders because of the high mileage on this motor...if you do a lot of short trips, a small amount of gasoline in the oil is normal. You might want to do a compression test to confirm it's the rings. I don't think a MAFT Pro is going to help a lot at this point...that is unless you are running rich at cruise. Like I said, you'll need a wideband O2 to confirm that. What concerns me the most is the level of lead (in conjunction with copper) that is in this UOA...that points at the bearings.

Mobil 1 0w-40 will tend to shear in a hot running, turbocharged engine due to the amount of polymeric Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) required to achieve this SAE grade. On your report, it shows a viscosity of 12.8 cst at ops temp...GC is just below the same viscosity at ops temp and will not shear. It does not have near the amount of VII in the formula due to it's PAO base. GC is a thick 0W-30...your Mobil 1 sheared down to near the same viscosity hot, so don't let the numbers on the bottle mislead you.

Your pressures are good...GC *may* drop them a small amount. Think about your pressure before your changed your oil...the Mobil 1 had sheared down to about the same viscosity as GC. A high mileage motor can be a bit of a challenge to find an oil that best suits your needs...you don't have to use GC...there's a few others that just might be a better choice. For now leave the Mobil 1 fill as is and head to Tucson, recheck how it's doing once your settled in

 

[swaq]

Tucson is a nice town...you'll like it down there and it doesn't get *quite* as hot as it does in Phoenix. You might want to put a dual core radiator at the top of your wish list for the Supra (I have a CSF)...your gonna need the cooling capacity when it's 110 deg outside...might want to swap to a 180 deg thermostat too (Stant Superstat) and cut the jiggle valve off for a bit of constant flow. You have till April 08 before it starts getting really hot

I picked up a Koyo radiator from the group buy a few months back. I accidentally bought a 80 degree (C) thermostat, so I'm good there too. First thing on my list is to fix my A/C...

Yep, that's the AEM cleaning kit...just make sure you get the right one.

I assume I have the Dryflow, but is there an easy way to check?

Here's the GC threads...you should be able to find GC at AutoZone in Tucson:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55580

I talk about GC starting at post #12 on this one:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38768


The fuel dilution you are experiencing I suspect is due to blow by on your cylinders because of the high mileage on this motor...if you do a lot of short trips, a small amount of gasoline in the oil is normal. You might want to do a compression test to confirm it's the rings. I don't think a MAFT Pro is going to help a lot at this point...that is unless you are running rich at cruise. Like I said, you'll need a wideband O2 to confirm that. What concerns me the most is the level of lead (in conjunction with copper) that is in this UOA...that points at the bearings.

Mobil 1 0w-40 will tend to shear in a hot running, turbocharged engine due to the amount of polymeric Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) required to achieve this SAE grade. On your report, it shows a viscosity of 12.8 cst at ops temp...GC is just below the same viscosity at ops temp and will not shear. It does not have near the amount of VII in the formula due to it's PAO base. GC is a thick 0W-30...your Mobil 1 sheared down to near the same viscosity hot, so don't let the numbers on the bottle mislead you.

Your pressures are good...GC *may* drop them a small amount. Think about your pressure before your changed your oil...the Mobil 1 had sheared down to about the same viscosity as GC. A high mileage motor can be a bit of a challenge to find an oil that best suits your needs...you don't have to use GC...there's a few others that just might be a better choice. For now leave the Mobil 1 fill as is and head to Tucson, recheck how it's doing once your settled in

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate your help. How hard is it to do a compression check? Is it possible to get just the wideband part of the MAFT Pro and then hook it into a MAFT Pro later? (I should probably be asking drjonez that question)

 

[jdub]

Check the inside of the filter...if it's got a red tinge or feels oily, it's not a DryFlow.

A compression test is easy...you need the proper compression gauge adapter to screw into the spark plug holes.
Compression Test

The MAFT Pro does not include a wideband. I would get a wideband O2 first, the MAFT Pro later....there are several WB O2 units to choose from. Do a little research to determine which one suits your needs.

You're welcome

 

[swaq]

I have the DryFlow. I took off the filter and that's what it says on it, in addition to "do not oil". AEM charges $9 for shipping the cleaning solution. Are there any stores that would carry it?

 

[jdub]

Desert Rat does in Phoenix
I bet the AEM site has a list of dealers.