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Thread: Why the gun is civilization.

  1. #1
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    Default Why the gun is civilization.

    WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION

    By Marko Kloos

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.




    Marko puts this so succinctly, I have nothing to add.

    Edit: This is often incorrecty attributed to "Major L.Caudill, USMC (Ret.)" - this is incorrect. The author has written about this here and the original post, dated in 2007 is located here. Marko is the original author. This is brilliant stuff, the man deserves proper credit.
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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    I agree. 100%. Remove guns from the equation, and there are few that can stand toe to toe with me in a straight, brutal brawl.

    My wife on the other hand (unless she gets dirty ) can't. At 5' flat, she simply wouldn't be a threat for someone of my size (6'+ 230+lbs) to do as I please.

    Her M&P 9c on the other hand, combined with personal firearm training on her part, completely levels the field against anyone that may wish her harm.

    Some might argue that as a large, capable guy, I should be there to protect her in the case of something going awry. Exactly what can I do, when I'm working late, and she's home alone and someone breaks into the house?

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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    I totally agree.

    The problem is that the people against firearms don't. They are governed not by logical reasoning, but by emotions. This argument will fall on deaf ears unfortunately.
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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    I agree as well.

    I am with Brewster on the thought that many are going with their emotions on this sort of argument... which is so very wrong - emotions are meant for between the sheets, not government.
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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    I would have to agree also. I recently encountered a situation that put my own well being in danger. So now I carry a..well larger than normal size knife on me at all times..I'm fed up with being in those situations where I can't protect myself. So now If I run into a problem where my life is in danger I won't hesitate to take another by defending myself. Although I live in a small town in mass, anything can happen. My father knows that. That's what I was taught. I would like to get a license to carry when I turn 21 in June. Maybe It would be a good idea..maybe It wouldn't be.
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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    well i would have to agree to disagree.. cause well, in my own right i am a marine.. and as a marine im trained in hand to hand close qorters combat.. but im also trained to take you out at a "long" range (mind you we shoot a .22 on crack AKA the .223), so in all respect to the Maj. (RET), but no matter what we do, even if you take guns out of the qestion, we as humans will always have the tendancy to fight.. its human nature..

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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodasp90 View Post
    even if you take guns out of the qestion, we as humans will always have the tendancy to fight.. its human nature..
    Re-read it. You are missing the point, that guns level the playing field. With no guns, the oppressors are genetic lottery winners.

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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodasp90 View Post
    well i would have to agree to disagree.. cause well, in my own right i am a marine.. and as a marine im trained in hand to hand close qorters combat.. but im also trained to take you out at a "long" range (mind you we shoot a .22 on crack AKA the .223), so in all respect to the Maj. (RET), but no matter what we do, even if you take guns out of the qestion, we as humans will always have the tendancy to fight.. its human nature..
    Actually it's not a .223 but rather a 5.56 NATO....although you can shoot .223 from 5.56 chambered rifles it's a very bad idea to shoot 5.56 from .223 chambered rifles!

    And re-read the thread cause you missed the point jarhead LOL

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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    Are you sure about that? Had this convo with an ex-Seal at the gun store, who proved his point by simply pulling out one of the ammo cans clearly marked .223 / 5.56

    Haven't attempted it myself, just saying The guy seemed EXTREMELY knowledgeable.

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    Default Re: Why the gun is civilization.

    100%. 5.56 is a longer round...be it the brass or bullet/bullet seat...that a caliper to a NATO round and a .223 and the diff is obvious.

    Ps. I work for a lisenced firearm mfg.

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