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Thread: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

  1. #21
    Living the dream... Kinda
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    I agree, get a better filter then submit new samples after 3K on new oil with the new air filter.

    If the wear comes down, then you can start extending the distance between your oil changes.
    >>I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.<<


    Mike "Nightmare" Donohue

    "Stupidity is permanent and often fatal, Ignorance is curable with education..." -- Me

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    Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities. I donít believe in 2,870 gods, and you donít believe in 2,869. You're nearly as much of an Atheist as I am.

    Government is a good thing: Through correct principles, I govern myself.

    Public Notice: Contrary to popular belief, I do not consider everybody who disagrees with me to have brain damage. Those who don't have brain damage will be able to explain and justify their points of view in a logically defensible way. That's the way the Rational Discourse game is played. If you don't want to play the Rational Discourse Game, don't expect anybody (least of all me) to take you seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock View Post
    If you drive like that on public streets I won't be disappointed if, as long as you were alone, they one day hose you out of a twisted mass of smoking metal into a bucket and melt what's left of your car down into tuna cans.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    Are you using a K&N air filter? If so, it's crap...get an AEM dryflow if you are going to stick with a cone type filter.

    On other thing I noticed is your TBN has dropped to half of what that oil started at (11.3)...while Blackstone is correct concerning the additives and the TBN, a 50&#37; drop over 3000 miles is a lot. TBN is an indicator of the oil's ability to "clean up" acidic combustion byproducts that oxidize oil...detergent additives are used up in the process. It's not the present level that's a concern, it's the rate of detergent consumption your TBN is showing.

    Change this oil soon and get a new air filter.


    Quote Originally Posted by CyFi6 View Post
    The air filter in there now is just a regular stock looking filter, nothing performance related. It is the same one tat came on the car when i bought it over a year ago. Are the stock replacement filters from pepboys and other auto pars stores sufficient? I don't really want to go away from the stock air box so id like to get something that fits in there.
    Ahhh...even better. You want an AC Delco filter...it's the best. A Baldwin air filter would be the next choice, but that may be hard to find. Wix air filters are above average for a 3rd choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by CyFi6 View Post
    Assuming contamination brought up my silicon levels, would it also account for my excessive bearing (Pb) and Fe levels? If not, what could have caused this wear?
    Personally, I think that's a bad assumption.
    Especially with an air filter that's over a year old.

    If you have dust/dirt from your intake being sucked into the cylinders, it's like sandpaper. Yes, you will show higher wear metals as a result.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    Quote Originally Posted by CyFi6 View Post
    Assuming contamination brought up my silicon levels, would it also account for my excessive bearing (Pb) and Fe levels? If not, what could have caused this wear?
    Quote Originally Posted by jdub View Post
    Personally, I think that's a bad assumption.
    Especially with an air filter that's over a year old.

    If you have dust/dirt from your intake being sucked into the cylinders, it's like sandpaper. Yes, you will show higher wear metals as a result.
    The data doesn't add up. If it were just elevated silicon, I'd suspect your sample was contaminated, but those hight Pb and Fe levels coupled with the silicon indicate engine wear due to poor air filtration.

    Replace the filter, wait 3,000 miles, test again and report back.
    >>I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.<<


    Mike "Nightmare" Donohue

    "Stupidity is permanent and often fatal, Ignorance is curable with education..." -- Me

    Frequently Asked Supra Questions: Rod Knock - HKS WG Springs - Injector Sizing - What is A/R? - Buy a TSRM - HKS HG FAQ - AFPR - Machinist - Overboring - Vac Diags - Motor Oil - Seafoam - Spark Plugs - Air Filters - V6 vs. I6 - Solder vs. Crimp Connectors - How to make power - Stroker Motors - Unreliable 7M's? - Piston Slap - Home made race fuel - Budgeting a build - Tuning and Vf

    Frequently Asked Forum Questions: What will get you banned? - Posting and you - Ideals - Membership - Usage - BBCode - Smiles - Scammers - How to make thumbnails - History

    Other Bullshit: Global Warming - Global Warming Facts - Religion & Politics - Collectivism -War On Drugs - Founding fathers were Diests - Religion and The Constitution - Size of the Federal Gov't - Canadian Healthcare - Socialists -European opinons of the U.S. - U.S. standard of living - U.S. - the worlds best customer - Modern Education - A Government created problem - Environmentalism is a big problem - Taxes - Socialism death toll - Can't afford healthcare? - I am my own god - Atlas will shrug - Not paying a "fair share"? - Income taxes are not a necessity - How to succeed, a 60 second lesson - How a liberal approaches facts. - Who is responsible for the financial crisis? - You asked for it. - Understanding Women - Understanding Men - Personal question? Answer is probably here. - Why I carry a gun. - Fuck the rich? - US Politics in a nutshell - The one principle that matters - Why anarchy is a fools errand - This is what it feels like to be me. - Living an awesome life - The crash is coming

    Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities. I donít believe in 2,870 gods, and you donít believe in 2,869. You're nearly as much of an Atheist as I am.

    Government is a good thing: Through correct principles, I govern myself.

    Public Notice: Contrary to popular belief, I do not consider everybody who disagrees with me to have brain damage. Those who don't have brain damage will be able to explain and justify their points of view in a logically defensible way. That's the way the Rational Discourse game is played. If you don't want to play the Rational Discourse Game, don't expect anybody (least of all me) to take you seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock View Post
    If you drive like that on public streets I won't be disappointed if, as long as you were alone, they one day hose you out of a twisted mass of smoking metal into a bucket and melt what's left of your car down into tuna cans.

  4. #24
    Mr. Formula SAE
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    I just had an analysis on my oil done with 4,038 miles on the oil (Castrol Syntec 0W-30 Euro Formula). Couple things I don't like - here is the analysis

    Wear metal PPM
    Copper 3
    Aluminum 3
    Iron 10
    Silicone 11
    Chromium 1
    Lead 7
    silver 0
    Nickel 1
    Tin 4
    Sodium 41


    Viscosity
    100 Deg. C in cst 8.8 ?? should be around 12.2

    Neg Fuel Dilution
    Neg Anit Freeze dilution
    .05 &#37; water
    0% soot

    Additive Element PPM
    Zinc 1181
    Phosphorous 993
    Calcium 2234
    Magnesium 566
    Barium 0

    I had Benz Oil in Milwaukee Wisconsin do the testing but think I will be switching to Blackwood since they give you a better comments/recommendation and have a few more things they test for.
    Last edited by supradjza80; November 14th, 2008 at 10:18 AM.
    Dave Hanna
    UW-Madison Mechanical Engineering

    1992 5-speed turbo 342rwhp 372rwtq
    Apex'i Intake, BIC DDP, Cooleze IC Hardpipes, 3.5" Exhaust, MK4 TT wheels, LEX/550/MK4 Fuel Pump, Driftmotion CT2657, Cometic MHG, Probe 83.5 mm Pistons, Mishimoto Radiator

    1997 Supra Turbo 6spd - BL T61 Single - Yes it is faster than my 92
    1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20V

    http://www.youtube.com/user/supradma71#p/u

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    It would help to get specifics on the oil you are using...sorry, but I don't have that memorized for all the people I deal with on that subject here.

    The wear metals are at the upper range or a bit high, but overall not that bad. I would suspect the same issue as above...dirt/dust getting past the air filter.

    The viscosity is a different story...that is a pretty big amount for the oil to shear down. Oil temps?
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  6. #26
    Mr. Formula SAE
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    oops, forgot I didn't post that. I am using the holy grail of oil, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 Euro Formula. I don't know what the oil temps are but I doubt they are high enough to warrant that kind of oil shear down.
    Dave Hanna
    UW-Madison Mechanical Engineering

    1992 5-speed turbo 342rwhp 372rwtq
    Apex'i Intake, BIC DDP, Cooleze IC Hardpipes, 3.5" Exhaust, MK4 TT wheels, LEX/550/MK4 Fuel Pump, Driftmotion CT2657, Cometic MHG, Probe 83.5 mm Pistons, Mishimoto Radiator

    1997 Supra Turbo 6spd - BL T61 Single - Yes it is faster than my 92
    1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20V

    http://www.youtube.com/user/supradma71#p/u

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    I assume this is a 7M? I'm curious...what kind of air filter do you have and when was it changed?

    I have never seen GC shear that much with that mileage...that is ?W-20 viscosity. Since GC is a PAO oil, it does not have the VII content you see in other oils that can be a cause of this magnitude shear. Heat is the only other explanation since you are not showing any fuel dilution. What cooler circuit do you have?

    This assumes the analysis is correct...I'd have it double checked to be sure. If it is accurate, I would change the oil.
    BTW - you should always have a TBN done in an oil analysis.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  8. #28
    Mr. Formula SAE
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    It is 7m with stock oil cooling circuit.

    I bought the car in may with 82,000 miles on it and put on a brand new Apex intake with apex filter at that time.

    I change the oil right when i bought the car and used 10W-40 GTX. Then after reading what was on this site I decided to change the oil to the GC 0W-30 and did this after 3000 miles.

    I did the analysis on the GC when i changed my oil with 4000 miles on it. I knew this was early to change the GC but it was just the easiest way for me to get the sample using the tools I have at college. I did put in fresh GC at this time.

    Either way I have serious doubts that the viscosity number is correct, but it is really hard to say. I did fill another sample bottle when I changed the oil so maybe I will see if blackstone can analyze the oil using someone elses bottle kit...

    The car only has the intake, and BIC DDP to 2.5 inch straight pipe for mods so I doubt the oil was overly warm even during times that I was driving the car hard. I have also done a compression test on the motor around 89,000 miles and it was 150 across the board.

    I always watch the oil pressure gauge I when cruising on the highway (during a long drive lets say) the pressure is always right up around 40. After driving the car hard and taking it up on the highway the pressure is in the same spot when you take it to highway speeds cruising. This is with the stock gauge, but mine seems to be pretty accurate, and if it isn't accurate it at least reads the same under the same conditions day to day.

    Also what is a TBN?
    Dave Hanna
    UW-Madison Mechanical Engineering

    1992 5-speed turbo 342rwhp 372rwtq
    Apex'i Intake, BIC DDP, Cooleze IC Hardpipes, 3.5" Exhaust, MK4 TT wheels, LEX/550/MK4 Fuel Pump, Driftmotion CT2657, Cometic MHG, Probe 83.5 mm Pistons, Mishimoto Radiator

    1997 Supra Turbo 6spd - BL T61 Single - Yes it is faster than my 92
    1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20V

    http://www.youtube.com/user/supradma71#p/u

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    TBN = Total Base Number. This tells you the remaining ability of the oil to neutralize acidic byproducts of combustion. If everything else is good, you use this number to determine when to change the oil.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  10. #30
    Mr. Formula SAE
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    Default Re: Oil Analysis - Post your VOA and UOA Here

    Quote Originally Posted by jdub View Post
    TBN = Total Base Number. This tells you the remaining ability of the oil to neutralize acidic byproducts of combustion. If everything else is good, you use this number to determine when to change the oil.
    ok, yes they did not give me this number. but they do say in their comments section that this oil is good condition and is suitable for continued use...which is funny since the viscosity is 8.8 and its a 30 weight oil (they knew what oil i was using).

    Like I said I think i am switching to black stone. And I think since my oil pressure never changed throughout using the oil that the viscosity probably didn't change much either. Even with the new oil the gauge does exactly what it did with the old stuff under the same conditions...
    Dave Hanna
    UW-Madison Mechanical Engineering

    1992 5-speed turbo 342rwhp 372rwtq
    Apex'i Intake, BIC DDP, Cooleze IC Hardpipes, 3.5" Exhaust, MK4 TT wheels, LEX/550/MK4 Fuel Pump, Driftmotion CT2657, Cometic MHG, Probe 83.5 mm Pistons, Mishimoto Radiator

    1997 Supra Turbo 6spd - BL T61 Single - Yes it is faster than my 92
    1991 Audi 200 Quattro 20V

    http://www.youtube.com/user/supradma71#p/u

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