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Thread: Conventional Oil Filters

  1. #1
    Winter Sucks!
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    Default Conventional Oil Filters

    Thanks for the great info once more... My 7m is getting some 0w30 this spring... it's finally getting warm here but the car won't be out before mid may with all the sand on these back roads...

    The real point of this message is concerning a new topic. I would like to hear more about your research on oil filters. There is mention of several brands, two that you recommend (PureOne or Wix filter). I've seen the Wix at a parts dealer in Montreal but normally I use a Fram type that is designed for Synthetic oil (is this marketing BS?). I would sure like to hear any facts or research you have compiled concerning filters.
    Representing SupraQuebec.com

  2. #2
    Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    I've been meaning to talk about this...just have not gotten around to it. Since it was really off topic in the other thread, I created this one. Keep in mind, this discussion is going to center around relatively stock 7M motors to those in the 400'ish HP range. You start building a motor for the big HP numbers, you will need some mods to the oil/filter system to provide the flow needed. First, I'll discuss how a conventional full flow filter works.

    Full flow filters are just that...oil under pressure flows through the filter media back to the motor. For the 7M engine reference this TRSM diagram:


    The oil pump moves the oil from the pan directly to the filter bracket. It is pumped through the filter 1st, then is moved to the engine parts that require it. Note the relief valves...the 1st one is on the pump itself. Over ~40 psi oil is vented back to the pan...this is a regulator that prevents over pressurization of the system at high rpm. The second is on the oil filter bracket...this one directs oil to the cooler on a turbo motor. It functions in the 30-40 psi range...below this, there is no oil going to the cooler. The third is a fail safe in case the filter becomes clogged...it directs unfiltered oil back to the motor in this case. Not a likely event if you're using a good filter with a by-pass valve.

    Filter flow is important...you want one that flows 7-9 GPM to provide adequate flow to the 7M. If you shim the pump to provide more pressure, you will need to modify the filter set-up or you risk putting the filter into by-pass. If this happens, you will be running unfiltered oil. Really high oil pressure is not necessarily a good thing

    Once oil enters the filter through the outside holes, it is forced through the filter media and exits out the middle hole that screws to the housing..full flow filters work from the outside in. At the dome of the filter there is a spring that holds the media cylinder against the base. At the top or bottom, a good filter will have a spring loaded by-pass valve...if pressure inside the filter overcomes the spring, the oil flows around the media back to the motor. At the base, a good filter will have an anti-drain back valve. Think of this as a check valve...it allows oil to flow in through the outside holes, but not in reverse. This is to keep the filter full and prevent momentary oil starvation to the engine as the filter fills up.

    Here is some info on micron ratings vs. efficiency for filter media:
    http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-5R3.html

    It just so happens I did an autopsy on a PureOne filter I was using as a tranny fluid filter to see if I had any metal present. It was not on the motor very long...it's purpose was to initially filter the ATF before I installed a Trasko by-pass filter. I'll talk about it 1st...here are the pics:









    In the 1st pic the parts are shown in order left to right...casing, spring, media, and base. The 2nd pic shows the top of the media cylinder...the leaf spring goes on top of this. The green "button" in the middle is the by-pass valve...both the spring and by-pass valve are at the dome end of the filter. The 3rd pic shows the feed end of the filter...the red disk is the silicone rubber diaphragm-type anti-drain back valve (ADBV). If you look at the filter base you can tell how it would cover the outside holes preventing back flow from the filter.

    Why do I like this filter? Take a close look at the media...it has numerous pleats that are close together. This means this filter has a larger surface area than most. The media itself is one the best out there for conventional filters...it is constructed of a dense paper/glass fiber and will catch particles at 99% @ 20 microns and 96% @ 10 microns efficiency. The largest media pore size is 42 microns, the smallest is 10 microns. The silicone ADBV is high quality and effective.

    The only downfall for this filter is the by-pass valve location. It's at the top of the filter...if it were to function, oil would wash over the outside of the media possibly picking up debris and carrying it to the engine. Not a huge downside due to the unlikely event the by-pass valve would ever function...the media would have to be clogged for this to happen. This is a very well designed filter overall.

    The Wix is also a very high quality filter...here's a pic:



    The surface area and number of pleats is slightly less than the PureOne. The media is also not quite as fine...the largest pore size is 58 microns, the smallest is 19 microns. This cuts down the efficiency...Wix says it catches 98 % of particles 25 microns or larger. However, it also flows a bit better than the PureOne for the same reason. This filter also has a high quality silicone ADBV similar to the PureOne. The biggest difference is the location of the by-pass valve...it is at the entrance of the filter. If it functions, the oil by passes the media completely avoiding the situation in the PureOne.

    Other quality filters are Mobil 1 and K&N...both are Champion Labs filters...note how similar they are. Here's the pics:







    The Mobil 1 uses a synthetic media with excellent filtration ability...construction is similar to a PureOne, but more robust and also uses a heavy duty silicone ADBV. The K&N uses conventional media, but has more surface area than the Mobil 1 or PureOne...the ADBV is also silicone. Plus the K&N has the nut welded on the dome for easy removal. Both of these filters have the by-pass valve at the top of the filter. These filters are comparable to the Wix or PureOne...the difference is cost...bang for the buck, the Wix and PureOne beat them.

    Another very popular filter here is Toyota OEM...it's actually a Denso filter made in Thailand. Here's some pics:











    Note the lack of an end cap on the media cylinder...the pleats are glued together on the ends to prevent flow from getting around the media at the top/bottom creases. The by-pass valve is built into the top leaf spring and relies on the leaf spring to hold it against the center tube...it is inferior to the PureOne and even more so to the Wix. The ADBV is black nitrile. Compare construction of this filter to the PureOne above...there's a huge difference. Plus the media used in the Denso filter continues the trend...it is slightly better than a Fram Extra Guard. This filter was designed to be mass produced cheaply...not near the quality of the above filters. Next time you hear "Toyota filters are FTW!", point this thread out to them

    There is a difference in Toyota filters made in Japan. If you can find them (I've never seen one for a 7M at a US dealer)...for other Toyota car they are called TRD Denso Filters and are rather expensive. If you're motivated, you may be able to cross reference to one that will work on the 7M...really easy to do if you have a remote oil filter set-up. They are a resin type media and are very well constructed. Here's a comparison pic...the resin type is on top:



    Here's a link to the construction of another type TRD filter...the TRD USA filter looks a lot like a Mobil 1. It's counterpart is pretty cheap...a lot like what you see for the standard Toyota OEM filters.

    http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/par...ers/index.html

    This brings me to the Fram filters...take a look at the pics:







    You want to avoid Fram Extra Guard filters like the plague. They are very cheaply made (ends of the media cylinder is cardboard), media surface area is 2/3 that of the PureOne, the media filtration ability is average at best, and the ADBV is black nitrile vs. silicone. The Fram Tough Guard is better with a cheaper version of the silicone anti-drain back valve and average filtration ability. The Fram Extended Guard is actually pretty good...but it is still cheaply constructed...note all 3 have the by-pass valve built into the leaf spring like the Toyota/Denso filter. Quality doesn't hold a candle to the Wix, PureOne, Mobil 1, or K&N filters in this respect. Fram filters are cheap for a reason...if you want to go cheap, use a STP (better media) or Wal-Mart SuperTech.

    Here's a comparison of a few of the above filters:
    http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

    Here's who makes the various filters out there:

    Fram

    Fram Extra Guard (std)
    Fram Tough Guard (different media?)
    Fram X2 (Silicone ADBV, Fuzzy media)
    Fram Extended Guard (same as the X2)
    Mileguard (Jiffy)
    Honda (although some are alleged to be made by Filtech)
    Chrysler line up except for the Cummins
    Pennzoil (Extra Guard)
    Deffense
    Canadian Tire (Extra Guard)


    Champion Labs

    Bosch (Pre 2008)
    Car and Driver
    Deutsch
    Mobil 1 (syn media)
    STP
    SuperTech
    K&N
    Valvoline filters
    Mighty
    Service Champ
    Lee
    AutoZone Value Craft
    AC Delco (some)
    VW (some)
    Warner
    Luberfiner
    Trust


    Wix

    Carquest Blue
    Carquest Red (lower quality with nitrile ADBV)
    Napa Gold
    Napa Silver (lower quality with nitrile ADBV)
    Kralinator (in Canada)
    ALLIANCE (Freightliner aftermarket)


    Purolator (Arvin Meritor)

    Purolator Premium Plus (nitrile ADBV)
    Purolator PureOne (silicone ADBV, different media)
    Havoline
    Maxlife Valvoline (some)
    Group7
    Promotive
    Powerflow
    Quaker State (less media)
    Advanced Auto Total Grip (less media)
    Pep Boys Pro-Line
    MotorCraft
    Superflo
    Bosch (After 2008)
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    We had the orange rubber filters at one of the Toyota dealers I worked at. They are OEM on many cars. You can probably get it with the part number. Other than having Jeff Lange walk out get under the car or hood and write it down, I don't know how to get it.

    That Toyota filter is different than just 5 years ago. That is about when there was a switch. There was a time when it said made in Japan, and listed the series of engines it worked on such as, R, M, JZ MZ, etc right on the front of the box. I don't know how much better it was than the newer one from Thailand.
    Last edited by Nick M; April 21st, 2007 at 04:33 PM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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  4. #4
    Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by tissimo
    Ok a question, a wix filter is the best bang for the buck, but which would you recomend regardless of price? I mean I dont mind spending a few bucks on a oil change every other month or so.. Does the Mobil 1 have better filtration then the pure one? or the K&N have better filtration and flow?
    For a conventional 7M set-up...the Amsoil EaO filter:
    http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/eao.aspx

    The Mobil 1 would be second choice...filtration is close (not better than) to the ability of the PureOne.

    For a full flow cooler set-up...the Canton Racing CM filter:
    http://www.cmfilters.com/spin-on.cfm
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    If those EaO filters keep turning in the data I've been seeing I may break down and buy one. That's something coming from someone who dislikes all things Amsoil. It'd be a good tranny filter too. I'm hoping that spun micro-glass synthetic media of Donaldson's used in the EaO is going to turn out to be the next big thing in consumer level filters and the price will come down. If it does I may even abandon TP. Well, not totally
    In memory of Rimma Kiselitsa

  6. #6
    Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by JustAnotherVictim
    I had always wondered what the difference between those Napa gold and silver filters were.

    I know I've asked you about dual filter setups before but I was curious about how much difference there was between the filtration of the Wix and PureOne. Would it be enough to justify running a dual filter setup with those two or just stick with a Trasko and one of those two? I know that the Trasko will filter the oil more thoroughly but I'm just asking out of curiosity with a lower cost setup.
    The Trasko is a by-pass filter...night and day difference from full flow filters like the Wix or PureOne. The Trasko will remove particles down to the 1 micron size. If you're going to run a dual filter head on a 7M, the Trasko and a full flow is the way to go. Otherwise, you might as well use a single head with a single full flow.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  7. #7
    Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Part numbers for the Denso-Japan oil filters (Thanks Jeff!)
    Much higher quality that the ones made in Thailand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lange
    Toyota USA is bringing in the nice Made in Japan oil filters again, they are stocked in California. I've sold 30 of them in the last couple weeks (albeit 10 were to myself).

    90915-20004.

    I've got 10 more in transit to my dealership from the USA.

    All sizes of made in Japan filters are in stock in California, 90915-10003, 90915-10004, 90915-20003, 90915-20004, etc.

    90915-20003 is the factory size filter for the 7M/1JZ/2JZ, 90915-20004 is the larger one used on the V8's and newer large 6's.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Hey JDub,
    Thanks for the thread as well as your others, it has made me think alot about what type of oil I should be running in my car. My question is what have you heard about Pure Power filters. I recently purchased on for my newly rebuilt 7m and have noticed quite a difference in carbon buildups/gunk that was trapped in the filter when cleaning during changes. It cost me 200 bucks but is seeming to do quite a good job. The demonstration that i saw last year at Hot August Nights in Reno was quite impressive and from what I understand they use them on a lot of high stress applications like nascar and on all the monster trucks. Before I was one of the ones who fell to the K&N hype and at 12 buck a filter this is starting to pay itself off quickly.
    there link is www.gopurepower.com and the articles section has some intersting information.
    Thanks for any input!

  9. #9
    Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Basically the Pure Power filter is a conventional full flow filter that used a woven stainless media. As such, it will never filter out the smaller particles in your oil....you simply can't get the mesh small enough. The marketing on this product states that your usual paper media
    “Throw Away” Oil filters are designed to flow the oil BY (not through) the outside of pleated paper in hopes of catching particles that are inherent in motor oil.
    This is not true...oil flow through the media in all full flow filters, otherwise how could they possibly work? This makes me suspect right off the bat about this filter.

    What this filter will do is flow extremely well, though it will be at the expense of allowing smaller particles (30 micron from what I can gather) to flow in the oil. About 10 micron is the point where the particle is too small to cause wear/damage to your bearings.

    Then there's the cost...you can buy a lot of Wix/Pure One filters at $5 each vs the $200 this filters cost. Either will do a better job IMO as well. If you want the best full flow filters out there, take a look at the CM (Canton) or the Amsoil EaO filters.
    I will no longer respond to tech questions via PM. If you have a question, put it on the forum so everyone benefits from the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supracentral
    However I still stand by my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII is the owner.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetjock
    I swear, it's like talking to an amoeba...


    Want to know about oil...read this:
    Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas


    "Life is like a jar of Jalapeno Peppers
    What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

  10. #10
    Established 1994
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    Default Re: Conventional Oil Filters

    Oil filter FO-8, part number 08922-02011, made in the USA. How is that compared to the Thailand special? Ever cut one open?

    I don't know if you can still get them. I just found some of my old ones. I was just on the Champion site, and it says that part number is superceded by 90915YZZG1.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    www.thereligionofpeace.com <------- stay in the know, religion drives political beliefs

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