3000 GT ignitor wiring for a standalone

[X-man]

Wiring diagram to replace an MKIII ignitor with a Mitsubishi ignitor with an AEM or similiar plug and play unit.

VB - 12 volt positive
GND - Ground
IB1 - coil output #1 from AEM (factory iGt wire)
IB2 - coil output #2 from AEM (factory iGda wire)
IB3 - coil output #3 from AEM (factory iGdb wire)

OC1 - output to coils 1 - 6
OC2 - output to coils 2 - 5
OC3 - output to coils 3 - 4

The iGf wire is not used by the AEM and can be reasigned at the AEM connector to be a LS#1 through LS#12 output to drive the factory tach through an MSD tach adaptor part number 8920 which can be wired up right at the ignitor by using the reasigned iGf wire and the original Toyota tach feed from the stock MKIII ignitor.

Once this is all done you will need set some parameters in the AEM. Parameters such as turning coils 1,2,3, and 6,7,and 8 on, turning the multiplexing option off, and then setting the igntion phasing, spark teeth, and coil dwell.

Sean

[bfr1992t]

Great info! Can we build a list of recommended ignitors (car year/make/model/engine and part numbers)? Ideally also a list of connector parts to make this as plug and play as possible and coil dwell settings.

[empera]

best place to get a 3000 GT ignitor? wat are the benifits btw?

[X-man]

You can use any 3 or up channel ignitor. The Stealth, Diamonte, and the 3000 GT all had this ignitor if it came with the DOHC engine. You will need the connectors from a doner car. If you use an ignitor with more channels you will just have to use correct input and output wires ie 300 ZX twin turbos use a 6 channel ignitor that you could tie the three input wires together( 1-6, 2-5, and 3-4) and have 6 seperate outputs if you were going to use 6 MKIV coils.

Advance Auto has 3000 GT ignitors for around 100.00 versus 350.00 to 400.00 for the MKIII ignitor.

You have tuneability with igniton phasing and you get rid of the multiplexing and I completely got rid of any and all misfiring issues with my car.

[empera]

interesting...i do have that damn 3k misfire which this might solve.

[MRSUPRA]

X-man gave me this info when I was having the low load/RPM misfire. Unfortunantly it only went away slightly on my car. I had to go with sequential injection to completely solve the problem.

[TheNewRed]

You have tuneability with igniton phasing and you get rid of the multiplexing and I completely got rid of any and all misfiring issues with my car.

Ok so instead of using for example in AEMpro- the Multiplex coil option, you would use the Ignition Phasing option which gives you what kind of advantage? Can you not use phasing with the stock ignitor?

[X-man]

Ok so instead of using for example in AEMpro- the Multiplex coil option, you would use the Ignition Phasing option which gives you what kind of advantage? Can you not use phasing with the stock ignitor?



The stock ignitor receives a signal for the location of number 1 cylinder then it takes care of when the rest of the firing order occurs, if I did my homework correctly. One of the problems seems to be if for any reason there is any interference via electrical noise or signal strength this can really disrupt the signal.

On another note going sequential on the injectors wiring and firing also made a huge difference in driveability. Basically you run the car like the parameters AEM has set up for a 2jz.

[empera]

sean ima hafta pay u to come up and tune my car lol...

[bfr1992t]

Close, the factory ECU sends an trigger signal (IGt) and combination of IGa and IGb to tell the ignitor which of the three channels to fire. The ignitor controls coil dwell, drives the tach (IG-), and signals the ECU when there is a misfire (IGf).

Switching injection from the AEM 7M default to semi sequential (like stock) has made a huge difference on all of the 7M cars I have tuned. Driveability, low end torque, and economy have all improved. I have not converted to sequential injection yet because of the 2800rpm ignition issue. I've researched several different ignitors and obtained transistors suitable for ignition duty to build my own. I just need to get off my lazy ass and get something done. Has anyone used the "#10 inj as coil" feature to run full sequential ignition? What coils are you using? Ideally COP, possibly with built in ignitors would be cool.

[X-man]

Close, the factory ECU sends an trigger signal (IGt) and combination of IGa and IGb to tell the ignitor which of the three channels to fire. The ignitor controls coil dwell, drives the tach (IG-), and signals the ECU when there is a misfire (IGf).

Switching injection from the AEM 7M default to semi sequential (like stock) has made a huge difference on all of the 7M cars I have tuned. Driveability, low end torque, and economy have all improved. I have not converted to sequential injection yet because of the 2800rpm ignition issue. I've researched several different ignitors and obtained transistors suitable for ignition duty to build my own. I just need to get off my lazy ass and get something done. Has anyone used the "#10 inj as coil" feature to run full sequential ignition? What coils are you using? Ideally COP, possibly with built in ignitors would be cool.

Thanks for the more precise definition, I was trying to oversimply too much.

Here was what I sent to Matt for his 90 Supra, as mine is an 88.

Originally Posted by X-man
On the sequential injection hook up you are looking for plug C (the only 12 pin plug on the AEM). The numbers you want are on the bottom row on the left side of the connector.

10C is injector #7(which will go to injector #4 on the engine)
11C is injector #8(which will go to injector #5 on the engine)
12C is injector #9(which will go to injector #6 on the engine)

All the fuel injectors share a 12 volt supply wire from the injector resistor. The power wires will be colored:

Yellow for inj #1 and #4
Black for inj #2 and #6
Red for inj #3 and #5

The trigger wires for the ecu that you need to be concerned with are the:

White with a blue stripe for injector#4
White for injector #5
White with a red stripe for injector #6

You cut these wires out at the injector leaving about 3 to 4 inches off the injector plug to work with and attach the 3 to 4 inch pieces off the injector plugs to:

White/blue(inj #4) to pin 10C(inj #7)
White(inj #5) to pin 11C(inj #8)
White/red(inj #6) to pin 12C(inj #9)

On the pieces left sticking out of the original wiring harness I installed a red 18-22 ga butt connectors over the exposed ends to protect them.

You then have to turn off injectors number 4,5, and 6 and turn on/active injectors 7,8,9, and 10 and set them for primary under OPTIONS on the drop list. Then you go to FUEL, then ADVANCED FUEL, then INJ PHASING and set inject tooth #1 to 19.00, inject tooth #2 to 11.00, inject tooth #3 to 3.00, inject tooth #7 to 15.00, inject tooth #8 to 23.00, and inject tooth #9 to 7.00. Numbers 4,5,6, and 10 will have the number 0.00 in each of them.

Sean

[TheNewRed]

Close, the factory ECU sends an trigger signal (IGt) and combination of IGa and IGb to tell the ignitor which of the three channels to fire. The ignitor controls coil dwell, drives the tach (IG-), and signals the ECU when there is a misfire (IGf).
.
Either way, its still considered multiplexing(as sean stated). Im going to take your advice and use it Sean... These AEM's truely are brilliant!

[bfr1992t]

Either way, its still considered multiplexing(as sean stated).


Uh-huh. I never said it wasn't.



These AEM's truely are brilliant!

After owning one for 5+ yrs, tuning many of them including staged injection with dual fuels, custom injection/ignition schemes, etc...I wouldn't go *that* far. The GEMS board is nice, the AEM adapter is ok, the software and resulting firmware code leaves a lot to be desired. It's decent for the price.

The reason why I described the factory setup in detail is to make a point. In PnP config the ignitor controls dwell, but with any other ignitor you will need to customize the coil dwell table. This is very important - you can destroy your coils quickly.

[X-man]

Uh-huh. I never said it wasn't.



After owning one for 5+ yrs, tuning many of them including staged injection with dual fuels, custom injection/ignition schemes, etc...I wouldn't go *that* far. The GEMS board is nice, the AEM adapter is ok, the software and resulting firmware code leaves a lot to be desired. It's decent for the price.

The reason why I described the factory setup in detail is to make a point. In PnP config the ignitor controls dwell, but with any other ignitor you will need to customize the coil dwell table. This is very important - you can destroy your coils quickly.

These are the reasons I thanked you for clarifying and I am glad you mentioned the dwell control. I would hate to have people do this and start burning stuff up. I have left my dwell settings the same as what the dwell tables are set for an MKIV and have had no problems, but this is not to say there are not more efficient tables

[IJ.]

Uh-huh. I never said it wasn't.



After owning one for 5+ yrs, tuning many of them including staged injection with dual fuels, custom injection/ignition schemes, etc...I wouldn't go *that* far. The GEMS board is nice, the AEM adapter is ok, the software and resulting firmware code leaves a lot to be desired. It's decent for the price.

The reason why I described the factory setup in detail is to make a point. In PnP config the ignitor controls dwell, but with any other ignitor you will need to customize the coil dwell table. This is very important - you can destroy your coils quickly.
http://ij.supramania.com/coildoh.jpg (http://ij.supramania.com/coildoh.jpg)

[TheNewRed]

http://ij.supramania.com/coildoh.jpg (http://ij.supramania.com/coildoh.jpg)

And ofcourse, Ian's been there done that. LOL

[IJ.]

<nods> It was actually a MoTeC bug I found sitting idling in a carwash ;)

It took out 3 coils and a 3 channel ignitor.

[funky_monkey58]

Wiring mine up tonight. Hoping to get the bad boy to fire up!

[Halsupramk3]

X-man you stated

"You then have to turn off injectors number 4,5, and 6 and turn on/active injectors 7,8,9, and 10 and set them for primary under OPTIONS on the drop list. Then you go to FUEL, then ADVANCED FUEL, then INJ PHASING and set inject tooth #7 to 15.00, inject tooth #8 to 23.00, and inject tooth #9 to 7.00. Numbers 4,5,6, and 10 will have the number 0.00 in each of them."

what numbers go in inject tooth # 1, 2, and 3? originallly mine just has .5 in inj #1.

thanks.

[X-man]

I used the injector phasing pattern for an MKIV TT. I edited the above post to include the settings I used.

[Halsupramk3]

i was able to lean out my map in vacuum a lot. had to lean out in boost too but have not have time or road to tune boost. Sequential injection is soooo much better than batch (crap) fire.

the avalon ignitor i used also makes timing much better. i accidently cut the power wire to #6 inj and thought i wired in the ignitor wrong and had a miss. checked that for a day and finally thought to listen to the injectors and found #6 not clicking. duh. easy mod to wire in the injectors but dammit.

Everyone with a AEM or other capable ecu and mk3 should get rid of batch fire atleast, if not also use a 3 chanel ignitor.

[TheNewRed]

Whats the part # on the GT ignitor?

[X-man]

Advance Auto Parts

BWD Ignition Module/Control Unit
Part No. CBE537P

OE Style; DOHC

Warranty LIMITED LIFETIME REPLACEMENT
$113.39

[bfr1992t]

i was able to lean out my map in vacuum a lot. had to lean out in boost too but have not have time or road to tune boost. Sequential injection is soooo much better than batch (crap) fire.

the avalon ignitor i used also makes timing much better. i accidently cut the power wire to #6 inj and thought i wired in the ignitor wrong and had a miss. checked that for a day and finally thought to listen to the injectors and found #6 not clicking. duh. easy mod to wire in the injectors but dammit.

Everyone with a AEM or other capable ecu and mk3 should get rid of batch fire atleast, if not also use a 3 chanel ignitor.

Did you switch from the 2-cycle fire-all hack AEM had in the stock calibration directly to full sequential?

[Halsupramk3]

well my first post was when i was still on batch fire and 12 fuel teeth. i did have to lean some out but that may have been from a different unrelated problem.

I then put fuel teeth to 24 which will stop batch fire since we use a 12 tooth wheel on the cam. we get 12 twice between tdc events. when i put in 24 fuel teeth the car dies. thats because it only fires the injectors once per 4 stroke cycle instead of two, so half the fuel at 24 teeth. i increased the fuel about 40 to 50% to get the car to start. the injector needs more time on to spray. you can wire in the 4,5, 6 injectors and keep 12 teeth but going to 24 fuel teeth and getting rid of multiplex timing (oem timing randomization program) makes the car drive like a mk4.

Now i have sequential at 24 fuel teeth and have tuned the car with a hybrid boost comp map. Fuel is full boost comp over 5 psi, fuel graduates down at 5 psi to 0 psi and in vacuum the numbers are the same from left to right in each vacuum area (-3,-6,-9 and -12 psi). obviously -8 psi does not have as much fuel as -4 psi but the number is the same from left to right. that means the number is the same from 500 rpm to 7500. fuel is then corrected at these rpms via the throttle inj correct table and boost comp numbers. i use a little -% in the boost comp table under zero psi (it decreases fuel from 0 to -12 psi) and some throttle inject correct table for to reduce (-% at tps) fuel at throttle ranges from 0 to about 35 or 40%. thats about -17 at 0 tps to 0 or no correction at 35 or 40% thrtle inj correct table.

boost comp is awesome way to tune WOT. it works at every boost level when its set up properly and it appears to like sequential injection. i can run good fuel at 15 psi and flick the hi boost switch to 19 psi and the only number changed is the boost comp table number that increases the fuel across the rpm range equally at that psi setting. and i get the same a/f target.

I like the throttle inj correct and a little -% on boost comp in the vacuum areas because climbing hills and different gears have different throttle %s at the same rpms. so the fuel a/f will be correct in these areas at cruise.

my af on the highway is from 15.6 to 14.7 depending on what gear i am in. at 70 in 5th it is 15.3 to 15.7 depending on outside temps. usually 15.4 a/f.

[bfr1992t]

The reason I asked is I saw the same change (richer in vacuum due to better injection event timing) when changing to a semi-sequential injection strategy like the stock TCCS. Most seem to skip or not fully set up semi-seq and go straight to full seq. AEM really cut some corners on this part of setting up the mk3.

[nosechunks]

What is everyone using for dwell settings for this? Going stinger, this should be fine with stinger right?

[nosechunks]

Anyone?

[nosechunks]

Bueller??

[funky_monkey58]

20.00 teeth max
.30 teeth min

[nosechunks]

In ms? Running 8860 no table. This ignitor a smart ignitor? Can't find anything anywhere. :(

[funky_monkey58]

Send a Pm to figgie he is the in house standalone expert.

[nosechunks]

Just did the swap from stock to 3kgt ignitor, Night and day difference. Running 2.125ms dwell with EMS 8860. Recommend to anyone with standalone, 113 dollars from advance auto.

[empera]

where'd u get the pigtail from?

[nosechunks]

I just removed the female terminals from the stock ignitor connectors and slid them onto the pins of the new ignitor. They fit very tight and secure.

[empera]

pics? visual would help me see how secure it is :)

[nosechunks]

its as secre as the stock terminals fit, Hard to see how secure they are, but ill take a picture tomorrow.

When i was putting them on i know theres no way there coming off unless there physically pulled off.

[empera]

so i've been thinking maybe we can also use a 3 channel s90 ignitor? haltechs use these, so i dun see why not.

[nosechunks]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/nosechunks/supra/IMG_0475.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/nosechunks/supra/IMG_0476.jpg

My install, I'm wraping up the wires with electrical tape so they can't short on anything.