View Full Version : Radiator nightmare....!!!!
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 05:05 PM
Ok, first post here, Hoping not to get flamed on my first post...
I just bought this nonturbo supra mark III targa, i thought it would be a fun car to try and see if i like it. Soo far i love the targa top, and of course who doesnt love saying they own a supra? Well anyways i did basic things at first oil change, tires, registration, so on... So im driving around one day and my engine tempature starts shooting up. i pulled over and let it cool down. i started it up the next day to drive it around... it drove perfectly and didnt even think about overheating, next day i drove it again, same story, perfect drive with no overheating. Now that im confident enough in the car i drive down to my cousins house like 20 min away and we are driving all over for like another 30 min then i went back home no problem. I drive it for about 10 min go back home and start it up again to drive up the street and its overheating. i let it cool down drove it back home while it was still pretty hot cause i was just down the street and when i stopped there was fluid all over the driveway, i popped the hood and it looked like a small water balloon had exploded on the left side of my engine bay.
I went down to pepboys and they explained it might be a thermostat so i bought the thermostat, radiator flush and new coolant. Come home, put the car on jackstands and disconnected the radiator hose to the thermostat housing, it was disgusting as you can see by the pics. whoever had this car before me really screwed up. But wait!
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics429.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics431.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics432.jpg
it gets worse, cleaned up best i could and replaced the thermostat, unclamped the bottom hose and a bunch of what seems to be rusty water comes out of the radiator, no metal frags thank god. so i ran about 2 galons of water down the radiator to try and get it to clear out the radiator. Then i added the radiator flush and filled the rest with water and closed up everything.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics437.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics435.jpg
Went to start up the car with my buddy looking out for anything goin on under the hood and sure enough he spotted a leak and told me to shut the car off. I had found where all the water came from, it was a radiator hose that connects 2 metal pipes in the back of the engine bay wayyyy between the head and the firewall, the hose is only about 4-5 in long but the part behind the engine is almost impossible to remove. ive tried everyting its just theres no room to work. i pinch on the clamp with pliers but theres no room to wiggle or pull
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics440.jpg
So if anybody has any idea how to do this please help!!!:1zhelp: ill have more pics of the clamps soon. Any other suggestions from the pics you can see feel free to suggest away. :)
New parts soo far on cooling system
1) Thermostat with gasket
2) Radiator cap
3) Radiator fluid
4) Radiator hose "Currently not installed"
I'd buy a combustion gas test kit for the cooling system before you go any further!
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 05:16 PM
What would that help solve?
It will tell you if you're throwing good money after bad ie: If the engine has a BHG before you drop another cent chasing the cooling system woes.
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 05:22 PM
It will tell you if you're throwing good money after bad ie: If the engine has a BHG before you drop another cent chasing the cooling system woes.
Still a noobie Define BHG:
Its one hose that needs to be Replaced and it will run fine.
Blown Head Gasket
There are 3 types of 7M
1) Has a BHG
2) Will have a BHG
3) Has been maintained meticulously
you can rule out #3 by your pics ;)
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 05:30 PM
Blown Head Gasket
There are 3 types of 7M
1) Has a BHG
2) Will have a BHG
3) Has been maintained meticulously
you can rule out #3 by your pics ;)
Soo.... It would need to be replaced thats all correct?
1 step at a time, find out of it's a problem then we'll deal with it ;)
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 05:53 PM
1 step at a time, find out of it's a problem then we'll deal with it ;)
So i need to remove that hose and replace it..... How do i go about that? its a really tight spot and its hard to get out. Do you know any special tricks that will make the hose come out easily? theres a clamp on the hose, its a pinch clamp so i have to hold the clamp in place with pliers to loosen it and pull the clamp out. but because of the limited room its much harder than it sounds.
Good idea to replace all the hoses if they're at all soft.
Some like you've found are a PITA, I use a flexiable driver for reinstallation it helps a bit.
If you can get the old clamps off you may need to slice the hose lengthwise then replace it and the clamps with new parts.
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 06:02 PM
Good idea to replace all the hoses if they're at all soft.
Some like you've found are a PITA, I use a flexiable driver for reinstallation it helps a bit.
If you can get the old clamps off you may need to slice the hose lengthwise then replace it and the clamps with new parts.
Thats part of the problem. i cant move the clamps, the hose is soft and it seems like the hose just keeps it in place even if i pinch all the way : / its just soo hard to reach in there, its frustrating.
Welcome to owning a 7M Mk3 ;)
It's an exercise in frustration at times!
What sort of clamps are they?
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 06:05 PM
Welcome to owning a 7M Mk3 ;)
It's an exercise in frustration at times!
What sort of clamps are they?
Their what i call "Pinch clamps" The ones you pinch with pliers to loosen them up, and if you let go they tighten again.
Bent long needle nose pliers get em?
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/kn/knipex-160mm-bent-needle-nose-pliers.jpg
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-30-2009, 06:11 PM
You should see the inside where the thermostat is of my engine.... WAY worse then that..... WAY MORE...
Previous owner just :nono:
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 06:12 PM
Bent long needle nose pliers get em?
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/kn/knipex-160mm-bent-needle-nose-pliers.jpg
It gets them but the hard part is moving the hose or clamp at all. its soo impractical the way they set that part up. i was thinking maybe i can put a hole though the hose and put a string though it and just yank the hell out of it and maybe itll come off.
I think at this point it's a case of whatever works to get it off as if the hose is soft it's a failure waiting to happen.
Time for me to go out to the shed leter dude <good luck>
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 06:28 PM
I think at this point it's a case of whatever works to get it off as if the hose is soft it's a failure waiting to happen.
Time for me to go out to the shed leter dude <good luck>
Thanks for all the help, i really appreciate it.
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 10:17 PM
You should see the inside where the thermostat is of my engine.... WAY worse then that..... WAY MORE...
Previous owner just :nono:
Was yours overheating? mine was getting stuck every week or so and thats when it would overheat. I could only immagine yours must have overheated all the time.
AJ'S 88NA
03-30-2009, 10:23 PM
IJ's such a good teacher :)
Like he said, do what you got to do to get it off. Putting it back on is a little easier.
And like IJ said you need to find out if you have a BHG before you replace anything else. That car has been seriously neglected.
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 10:42 PM
IJ's such a good teacher :)
Like he said, do what you got to do to get it off. Putting it back on is a little easier.
And like IJ said you need to find out if you have a BHG before you replace anything else. That car has been seriously neglected.
I took it to a shop, they only told me i had a blown exhaust manifold. They fixed that and thats all they said was wrong with it. nothing else. I think im going to go into there with a rotory tool and hopfully cut the clamp and the hose in one shot. By the way is coolant flamable?
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-30-2009, 11:08 PM
Was yours overheating? mine was getting stuck every week or so and thats when it would overheat. I could only immagine yours must have overheated all the time.
Nah waterflow is still good but really messed up inside it. Whenever I take it off I'll take a pic. You will be like :aigo:
Previous owner just didn't take good care of it. Got it reall shytie and already over 15k spent fixing it up. I just fell in love with the car and couldn't stop spending money on it.
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 11:37 PM
Nah waterflow is still good but really messed up inside it. Whenever I take it off I'll take a pic. You will be like :aigo:
Previous owner just didn't take good care of it. Got it reall shytie and already over 15k spent fixing it up. I just fell in love with the car and couldn't stop spending money on it.
Holy!!!!! 15k? Why no pics? what type of motor you running and mods? you gotta get a pic up dude, with 15k that thing must look and run like a champ
Never had coolant burst into flames so I'd say no ;)
Jokervrs
03-30-2009, 11:54 PM
Never had coolant burst into flames so I'd say no ;)
Woohooh your back! What i wanted to do is take a rotory tool in there and just cut it, clamp and all make it simple. Those clamps arent difficult to find are they?
LOL that should work fine as long as you don't go nuts and cut into the pipe!
The clamps are available from Toyota or you could put a worm drive clamp in there and buy a flex head tool in case you need to get it off again.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/00007383.jpg
(The spring clamps are pretty damn good though)
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 12:42 AM
LOL that should work fine as long as you don't go nuts and cut into the pipe!
The clamps are available from Toyota or you could put a worm drive clamp in there and buy a flex head tool in case you need to get it off again.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/00007383.jpg
(The spring clamps are pretty damn good though)
You know what? Thats a great idea, im gunna get that type of clamp, screw that id rather unscrew the clamp a thousand times before i deal with that pinch clamp again. THANK YOU!!! for that : D
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 01:25 AM
Holy!!!!! 15k? Why no pics? what type of motor you running and mods? you gotta get a pic up dude, with 15k that thing must look and run like a champ
15k just fixing it up..... still needs more...
got it like crap, changed clutch cylinder seals, new oem clutch kit bought new springs, shocks, bushing replaced, balljoint, tires, dashboard, fuelpump, engine then got spon bearing messed up crank, 2nd hand shortblock in, bearings went out, new bearings, pressure plate broke, took out the trans housing and clutch, other trans bought and new clutch kit, 2nd hand trunk, other steering wheel, new injectors, new alternator, chromed pulleys of ebay with OBX crankpulley(not using the crankpulley tho), new radiator, two 12" electric fans, MHG, ARP studs.. and still did not get a paintjob, my car looks FUGLY mang but IDC I still own a mk3 supra, 8 left around here.....
suprarx7nut
03-31-2009, 01:52 AM
You know what? Thats a great idea, im gunna get that type of clamp, screw that id rather unscrew the clamp a thousand times before i deal with that pinch clamp again. THANK YOU!!! for that : D
Be careful what you wish for. I absolutely hate the worm clamps and have paid good money to replace each and every one with the Toyota tension clamps, or Pinch clamps. ;)
The screw on worm ones are more difficult to use, if you ask me.
They dont not rotate once they get firmly on. But they need to be tightened a lot to clamp down enough. So what happens in that firewall space is that you get it started and the worm clamp grips. Now the head that you are screwing turns further and further into the A) head, or B) firewall. Either way, you will barely be able to get to it...
I'd say stick with the tension clamps. :) I've gone through installation and removal of that hose both ways and I'd hate to do it again with worm clamps.
To each his own though.
Just takes a little practice, you just turn it a little more from where you want it to end up and tighten down.... it's not rocket science
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 01:55 AM
15k just fixing it up..... still needs more...
got it like crap, changed clutch cylinder seals, new oem clutch kit bought new springs, shocks, bushing replaced, balljoint, tires, dashboard, fuelpump, engine then got spon bearing messed up crank, 2nd hand shortblock in, bearings went out, new bearings, pressure plate broke, took out the trans housing and clutch, other trans bought and new clutch kit, 2nd hand trunk, other steering wheel, new injectors, new alternator, chromed pulleys of ebay with OBX crankpulley(not using the crankpulley tho), new radiator, two 12" electric fans, MHG, ARP studs.. and still did not get a paintjob, my car looks FUGLY mang but IDC I still own a mk3 supra, 8 left around here.....
Omg, you built that ground up. At least youll be extremely proud knowing you build that up from nothing. thats a ton of work, im glad your reviving the old supra though. Takes a lot of determination, i admire that
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 01:59 AM
Be careful what you wish for. I absolutely hate the worm clamps and have paid good money to replace each and every one with the Toyota tension clamps, or Pinch clamps. ;)
The screw on worm ones are more difficult to use, if you ask me.
They dont not rotate once they get firmly on. But they need to be tightened a lot to clamp down enough. So what happens in that firewall space is that you get it started and the worm clamp grips. Now the head that you are screwing turns further and further into the A) head, or B) firewall. Either way, you will barely be able to get to it...
I'd say stick with the tension clamps. :) I've gone through installation and removal of that hose both ways and I'd hate to do it again with worm clamps.
To each his own though.
Well, heres the thing, im just gunna take a rotory cutter to the hose and clamp and just chop the bi*ch. Im tired of trying to get in there. If it needs replacing again i can just cut the wormclamp and hose again cant i? removing it really isnt a problem or is it if im cutting it off with the hose?
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:03 AM
Just takes a little practice, you just turn it a little more from where you want it to end up and tighten down.... it's not rocket science
Sweet, if rx7 mentioned it would be harder to remove later. But if i just go in there with a rotory cutter it shouldnt be a problem no matter what type of clamp i use right?
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 02:03 AM
Omg, you built that ground up. At least youll be extremely proud knowing you build that up from nothing. thats a ton of work, im glad your reviving the old supra though. Takes a lot of determination, i admire that
Oh yeah..... After a paintjob hopefully next month it's time to buy a 7mgte and rebuild it. I would want atleast 500hp... I would take my time with that one....
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:08 AM
Oh yeah..... After a paintjob hopefully next month it's time to buy a 7mgte and rebuild it. I would want atleast 500hp... I would take my time with that one....
Yea defintatly dont want to rush that. I believe here in california you cant swap things out like that. You can only turbo if your car is manufactured turbo and it cant be aftermarket, only oem. Shi**y i know.
It's NOT hard to remove later the flex driver makes all the difference.....
(I wouldn't suggest it otherwise)
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:17 AM
It's NOT hard to remove later the flex driver makes all the difference.....
(I wouldn't suggest it otherwise)
alright if you say so : ) but if it dont come off easy if i ever need to replace..... -_- ill chop that Mo-Fo in half!
Help me with this if you can
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93097
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 02:20 AM
Yea defintatly dont want to rush that. I believe here in california you cant swap things out like that. You can only turbo if your car is manufactured turbo and it cant be aftermarket, only oem. Shi**y i know.
LoL... Sucks...
Atleast here you can do w/e you want with ur car as long as its legal to be on the streets if u r planning on driving it on the streets...
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:25 AM
LoL... Sucks...
Atleast here you can do w/e you want with ur car as long as its legal to be on the streets if u r planning on driving it on the streets...
I think its the same here but idk, i gotta look into it. I just heard you cant add turbos. of course you can do other mods as long as your passing smog.
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 02:29 AM
I think its the same here but idk, i gotta look into it. I just heard you cant add turbos. of course you can do other mods as long as your passing smog.
Well here they don't even have that... They just check if mirrors are intact, seatbelts, muffler noice, lights, horn if windshields are intact... and ur done...
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:31 AM
Well here they don't even have that... They just check if mirrors are intact, seatbelts, muffler noice, lights, horn if windshields are intact... and ur done...
Whisper me your location, im about to move downt the street from you lol
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 02:33 AM
Whisper me your location, im about to move downt the street from you lol
LoL, you would have fly out the US :naughty:
Live in Aruba :icon_bigg
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 02:46 AM
LoL, you would have fly out the US :naughty:
Live in Aruba :icon_bigg
Woa! how the hell do you get parts shipped all the way out there?
SiLeNcE SuPrA
03-31-2009, 03:40 AM
Woa! how the hell do you get parts shipped all the way out there?
Hollywood my friend.....
I got a address there, everything gets shipped there, from hollywood they ship it here to me. :D
Jokervrs
03-31-2009, 05:55 AM
Hollywood my friend.....
I got a address there, everything gets shipped there, from hollywood they ship it here to me. :D
Nice bro, looks like you got everything planned out. glad to see determination in people.
Jokervrs
04-02-2009, 01:40 AM
UPDATE UPDATE!!!!
I got the dam Clamp and hose off! I know it sounds rediculous but whatever, it took forever to get that little bastard. Anyways, got the clamp off, replaced the hose along with that pesky pinch clamp with the wormclamps "Thanks IJ!!!" and they went on with no effort at all. And yes, that little tiny 4in hose is what put my car down for 2 days.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics626.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics627.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics631.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics632.jpg
Remember that nasty hose that led up to the thermostat housing from page 1? I cleaned that bad boy up as well
Before
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics608.jpg
After
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics623.jpg
Now that im not spraying water around like its the shamoo show i can proceed to Flush my radiator as i was planning. Ran the engine for about 12 min " not to mention the flush solution with the water was sitting in there for about 2 1/2 days" I undid the bottem hose and let it run into a pan. This is what i found.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics635.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics637.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics638.jpg
Thats basically what i found the first time i emptied the radiator. So i ran the water though the radiator to see if it was any better now that it loosened up all that crap and this is what was left
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/jokervrs/Iphonepics640.jpg
Much much much cleaner. i hadnt even rinsed out the oilpan before i dumped the running water from the radiator in there so it came out cleaner than it really is in the oilpan.
So, i got new coolant in there, i had the car running while i poured it in to ensure there was enough in there. I took off to get gas and it starts to overheat again! i pull over, check for any leaks in the engine bay, nothing... coolant on the ground underneth? nothing! wait till it was safe to open radiator and only to find i couldnt even see any coolant. Im guessing it sucked it up and a bunch is in the piping, Not to mention i only used about 1.2 gallons in there when it was full but i dumped another half galon in there untill it was full. So i drove it up home, i think it would have went a little over halfway if it was going to overheat but it didnt. I didnt have the time to drive it around at the moment because i had to pick up my friend in another car but ill know if thats what it was for sure by tormorrow! But im pretty confident its not going to overheat now : D
staticpage
04-02-2009, 02:06 AM
I know I'm late but craftsman makes
http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/a5/3/AAAAAlVesqIAAAAAAKUyBg.jpg
oh and ohio has no smog any more we fought the local gov. to stop it, you caliy's should try and stand up to the stupid laws your state is enforcing. do you really have hight lowering laws?
oh and sweet costco battery, I got one from sams club.
Jokervrs
04-02-2009, 02:51 AM
I know I'm late but craftsman makes
http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/a5/3/AAAAAlVesqIAAAAAAKUyBg.jpg
oh and ohio has no smog any more we fought the local gov. to stop it, you caliy's should try and stand up to the stupid laws your state is enforcing. do you really have hight lowering laws?
oh and sweet costco battery, I got one from sams club.
Late, better than never, lol its nice to know for future reference though "Man that woulda came in handy!!!". and what do you mean by hight lowering laws?
Also.... Costco batteries kick ass, 3 years free replacement, cant beat it... Especially since i dont manage to slam the doors hard enough to completely shut it : )
Very welcome Joker!
You can use the flex driver to undo the clamp and then holding a little sideways pressure on it then use it to wiggle the clamp into the middle of the hose make it easier to remove :) (for any future work)
jetjock
04-02-2009, 09:17 AM
I prefer the Mayhew Rigiflex over cheaper cable tools. More money but worth every penny when needed:
http://tinyurl.com/ccq8lf
I also have to agree with suprarx7nut. Worm drive clamps need to be tightened correctly (something the average person doesn't know how to do) and even then they *will* leak over time. Constant tension band clamps are superior and contrary to popular belief don't lose their effectiveness. As he said though...to each his own ;)
Jokervrs
04-02-2009, 02:23 PM
I prefer the Mayhew Rigiflex over cheaper cable tools. More money but worth every penny when needed:
http://tinyurl.com/ccq8lf
I also have to agree with suprarx7nut. Worm drive clamps need to be tightened correctly (something the average person doesn't know how to do) and even then they *will* leak over time. Constant tension band clamps are superior and contrary to popular belief don't lose their effectiveness. As he said though...to each his own ;)
I believe the pinch clamps work better but this particular clamp is in an extremely hard to reach area and nearly impossible to remove with the little workspace provided.
ForcedTorque
04-02-2009, 02:54 PM
It appears the previous owner used straight water in the radiator.
Next time you need to remove that hose, it is much easier if you remove the water neck first. Even then, it can still be a manageable pain in the arse. Mine have worm clamps on them. You can access the one near the head from the front of the motor, by going just over the water pump. My head on the worm clamps face this direction for that reason.
I prefer the Mayhew Rigiflex over cheaper cable tools. More money but worth every penny when needed:
http://tinyurl.com/ccq8lf
I also have to agree with suprarx7nut. Worm drive clamps need to be tightened correctly (something the average person doesn't know how to do) and even then they *will* leak over time. Constant tension band clamps are superior and contrary to popular belief don't lose their effectiveness. As he said though...to each his own ;)
I did say the CT clamps were superior but in this case I predict there will be further work required so figured the Worm clamp and Flex tool will save him a bunch of pain and frustration.. ;)
3p141592654
04-02-2009, 10:07 PM
If JJ's tool is too expensive for you, these will help.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33202
I prefer the 16" 45deg version, but they don't seem to sell it anymore.
Jokervrs
04-03-2009, 04:00 AM
I did say the CT clamps were superior but in this case I predict there will be further work required so figured the Worm clamp and Flex tool will save him a bunch of pain and frustration.. ;)
Sooo much easier with the worm clamp! Ill leave the rest as the ct clamps. but for those hard to reach places the worm clamp is definatly the way to go.
Jokervrs
04-03-2009, 04:01 AM
If JJ's tool is too expensive for you, these will help.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33202
I prefer the 16" 45deg version, but they don't seem to sell it anymore.
I have those exact pliers. Thats what i eventually got them with but it was still a big effort and it was a lot harder than i thought it would be with such long pliers.
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