no oil pressure on fresh rebuild.....!UPDATED...AGAIN...with pics!

[the t3d]

i have a completely rebuilt motor, from the bottom up. new oil pump(shimmed for more oil pressure) =0( and primed according the MK3 tsrm. now the motor is pretty much ready for start up, but upon cranking, i'm not getting any oil pressure on the gauge. i also tried un-doing the oil feed line on the turbo to see if anything would come out while cranking, and nothing. i don't want to try and start the car if i'm not gonna have any oil pressure. i have alot of money invested and i don't want to fuck it up. i guess the next thing i was planning on doing was to buy an oil pressure gauge and screwing that in and seeing if i get any pressure.
i'm mostly looking for possible reasons for this or a way to correct this. should i try cranking longer, since it's a fresh motor? i'm just worried that if i hook up the oil pressure gauge and get nothing, i'm gonna have no idea what to do. so, if anyone can help me, that would be great

THAAANKKSS!


-t3d

[IJ.]

How long did you crank it?

[the t3d]

like 5 seconds?

[Piratetip]

Do you have a relocated oil filter/bigger oil cooler/longer lines/ect...?

[IJ.]

LOL Tard!

Pull the plugs open the TB and crank for 50>60 seconds then give it a short break and hit it again.

Our starters are quite sturdy I used to use mine to move the car when it wasn't running when it had a manual trans.

[the t3d]

Do you have a relocated oil filter/bigger oil cooler/longer lines/ect...?

i have all of that actually haha

[Piratetip]

Yeah...oil needs to be pumped, it dosn't magically fill the entire system instantly.
:D

[IJ.]

shazamm system full! ;)

[the t3d]

LOL Tard!

Pull the plugs open the TB and crank for 50>60 seconds then give it a short break and hit it again.

Our starters are quite sturdy I used to use mine to move the car when it wasn't running when it had a manual trans.

it maybe closer to 10 seconds:biglaugh:

pull the spark plugs? damn 50-60 seconds is a long time to crank. lol i'm very cautious of what i do. i don't need bad things happening.

ok, so, i'll crank longer and see what happens....tomorrow

BUT what if still nothing comes out? do i get the shaft????

-t3d

[Poodles]

You can pull the front of the engine apart, pull the timing covers, and spin the oil pump drive gear with a drill...

That's last resort though as assembly lube should protect everything while you crank and until you get oil flowing...

[IJ.]

No plugs/TB open there's little to no load on the starter it would probably spin the engine for 5 minutes without getting hot :) (a spare charged battery and leads is a good idea so voltage doesn't drop)

You'll hear some load as the Oil system fills, soon as you see pressure refit the plugs and start it.

[Piratetip]

Boosh!

[the t3d]

sounds easy enough. yea i was wondering about the charge in the battery going away fast, so an extra battery would be a good idea. i need a couple more things to do before i start it. i just want to make sure i get oil pressure when i am ready to start it =0)


-t3d

[IJ.]

Yes as the voltage goes down the load on the starter goes up and it'll get hot as it pulls more current. (this may not be exactly correct but that's the end effect) ;)

[dumbo]

Yes as the voltage goes down the load on the starter goes up and it'll get hot as it pulls more current. (this may not be exactly correct but that's the end effect) ;)

Thats pretty close;) Because the CEMF is not produced by the starter motor. Its really a hard thing to think about. The way I look at it is a starter uses 'X' watts no matter what. So if volts go down, amps have to go up=heat.

[IJ.]

Thanks Dumbo, I knew I was sort of close but didn't want to get slammed for posting incorrect info as fact (not an EE)

[the t3d]

you guys are so smart. i couldn't imagine owning a supra and not being apart of this community =0)


-t3d

[Weeves]

So what happen? It started???

[dumbo]

you guys are so smart. i couldn't imagine owning a supra and not being apart of this community =0)


-t3d

I'm not haha, LEARNED IT TODAY IN SCHOOL LOL!!!!!!!:naughty::naughty:

Who's knows it woud come up so soon:runaway:....actually very strange IJ:icon_neut

[the t3d]

So what happen? It started???

haha no. i haven't gone out there yet. i have to get my intercooler pipes made before i start it...which will be in a couple weeks. but i'll be checking for oil pressure in the next couple of days. i'll be updating this thread when that happens for sure :biglaugh:

-t3d

[92nsx]

t3d - On my fresh rebuild, I had to spin mine for almost a minute (felt like forever) before the oil pressure gauge would show anything. And for a piece of mind, I also pulled one of the cam covers just to double check there was a ton of oil up there.

[noa324]

finished my rebuild couple of weeks ago. When we were priming the motor couldnt get any oil pressure. It drove us crazy but we pulled the motor quick and the motor was leaking oil str8 out the back! When we set the motor down it leaked out the front.. When we looked at a motor that was taking apart we saw the problem..When the machine shop took apart the motor they didnt put back a plug on both sides of the motor (front & rear). They are oil passages and the if they are not on u get no oil pressure at all... We put them on and instantly we had oil pressure NOT saying this is your problem ,but just somthing that had happined to me hope it doesnt happen to any body else good luck with your car

[americanjebus]

Oil pressure yet? just after sitting for more than a month it takes like a full minute and a half of cranking to see pressure on mine. Thats why you used a ton of assembly lube in the build process for that latency in oil pressure.

[the t3d]

hmmmm...well, i have bowling tonight, so i'll probably be cranking it up tomorrow to check for pressure. i went to town on my motor with assembly lube so i don't think that should be a problem. thanks for all the input guys...otherwise this would of drove me crazy!


-t3d

[the t3d]

ok, so i was just out there crankin her. i cranked for about a minute and then let it cool and then did it again. STILL NOTHING. i'm not sure if the gauge is working, so i pulled the oil line to the turbo to check and still got shit. my battery was startin to run out of juice, so i stopped. the cables and cable ends were quite hot. i'm gonna go buy an oil pressure gauge to hook up to see if i can get any kind of reading, but i'm starting to worry again :cry:

HELPZ!


-t3d

[IJ.]

No plugs/TB open there's little to no load on the starter it would probably spin the engine for 5 minutes without getting hot :) (a spare charged battery and leads is a good idea so voltage doesn't drop)

You'll hear some load as the Oil system fills, soon as you see pressure refit the plugs and start it.

[Piratetip]

Did you pull the spark plugs?

[dumbo]

I don't want to sound like a total douche bag/jerk but it does have oil in the pan right??

And you got rid of the stock filter housing, and went full-flow, thermostatically controlled right? And I would pull the plugs like IJ said, and dont crank on a dead battery, think of how hot those wires were, its only soldner in your starter, It will melt!

[Rennat]

it took my car 3 - 4 times of coutning to 15 to get any sort of pressure, but once you have a little pressure, it jumps pretty quick and is VERY obvious once you have that pressure... and your gonna wanna charge your battery, but im sure you already thought of that.

if you didnt fill the filters when you went full flow then it will take a while to fill those up and run all the way through.

[Timmer]

Double check the oil lines going to your relocation kit, as the filter will not allow oil to flow through backwards. Good luck!

[the t3d]

yea i'm gonna have to get a spare battery and charge this one. i didn't pull the plugs, but i did have the TB open. i have the transdapt oil filter relocation kit, which i don't think is thermostatic. and i'm pretty sure i got the lines right. i was very careful, but i'll be sure to double check. i'm gonna try this again on saturday. i'm gonna charge the battery tomorrow at work and have a spare for when i crank it again. i'll also pull the plugs and have an oil pressure gauge hooked up. i really hope this works. idk what i'm gonna do if something really bad happens. well, i do, but i just don't want to think about it. i'll be updating this again on saturday and let you guys know what happens.

thanks again

-t3d

[IJ.]

:nono:

[the t3d]

what's the head shake for?

[IJ.]

Just disappointed

[the t3d]

me too. trust me IJ i want to do everything right. time is really a factor for me. i only have the weekends. i don't have alot of patience but i try to when it comes to this car, mostly cause i haven't driven this thing in over a year =0(. everything that i said i'm going to do on saturday, is what i'm going to do. everything you told me to do, i will do and see how that goes. don't be disappointed dammit...i'm still young and learning =0)

-t3d

[IJ.]

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/following-instructions-for-dummies.png

[the t3d]

lol i'm sure you had that saved on your computer


...but i get the point! =0)


-t3d

[dumbo]

Just disappointed

You can be mad as hell, pissed off, and plain out F***ing enraged, but.......

I've only been a Supra owner/part of this forum for a short while. But I've learned this..
"Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it."

EDIT: If you got no flow out of the turbo feed line at all, I'm sure you got no presure, pull a valve cover to prove. Realistically there is very few things it could be, no oil, relief valve stuck open(you shimmed it yourself right?), oil pump outlet not hook up?, or some serious flow loss(Internal or external) or oil lines maybe hooked up wrong, not sure of your setup.
There's a point where assemby lube well no longer provide(Intial Start-up)lubrication. So know when to throw in the towel.

[Poodles]

if all else fails, do as I told you and remove the timing cases and spin the oil pump drive with a drill...

[FullNelson]

How long will the assembly lube take to wear down on starts like these?

How long does it take for oil to completely drain from the journals? Wouldnt each little attempt pump the oil up further into the motor and get you closer to achieving pressure? Jebus was saying his had it happened after a month of sitting, so as long as you dont spread it out over the course of a month, ach attemp shoudl get you closer right?

Have ya pulled the plugs yet and canked on it anymore?

[the t3d]

i hear ya. if it comes down to it, i'll be trying everything you guys have mentioned. i'll be charging up the battery today and getting a spare. i also picked up an oil pressure gauge tester, so i'll be hooking that up as well. all of this fun stuff will be done tomorrow, so i'll let you guys know what happens....thanks again!

-t3d

[gaboonviper85]

this time PULL THE DAMN SPARK PLUGS......when you pull the plugs the battery wont die near as fast and the motor will turn over with higher rpms! pull the spark plugs and open the throttle so there is minimal load on the motor!

or do what poodles said and hook a drill to the oil pump shaft and spin the piss out of it.....oh and double check if there is oil in your system.

[strippedsup87]

I just want to let you know something that we came accross when firing up a friends motor....we hooked up a pressure gauge on the turbo line and it took a good 10 seconds for oil to get there once it actually fired up....1000 rpms vs the 200-300 that the starter turns the motor at...so you might not ever see it from there...and 5 seconds for the gauge on the dash to read anything...

[Mk3runner]

it takes a long while to build pressure. pull plugs. pull efi fuse. crank for a good while and slowly watch to gauge move. I sat on mine for about 40 secs before I saw pressure build.

[Poodles]

also keep in mind if you pull the plugs, you're not putting the loads on the bearings so no wear will occur... this is a GOOD thing...

[the t3d]

alright i got my gauge set and battery home now(just got off of work). i'll be getting everything ready for tomorrow. league night bowling tonight, then drinking, so i should be good to go for tomorrow. the girlfriend will be working, so i'll have no distractions =0). i'm a picture whore, so i'll also be taking pictures and posting up everything. it makes it more fun...along with some Trance music to keep me focused:evil2:

alright, i'll be checkin back in with you guys tomorrow!

thanks a bunch!

-t3d

[williamb82]

if you need another set of eyes i might be able to come by wed and take a look. im pretty booked this weekend.

[the t3d]

hmmm. damn that sucks you're booked on the weekend. that really the only time i have off work. i do have a dominant shop light for when it's dark out. i don't get off 'til six, but if you want to stop by during the week, i wouldn't have a problem with that. i do also bowl on wednesday nights, so yea

-t3d

[williamb82]

i work till 9pm now. lol. doubt youd want me over that late. lol. though traffic that time of night across the bridge would be a breeze. lol. as soon as i have the money for the crank kit i need ill be assembling another 7mgte for my car. mhg is on the way since i blew the other one it seems sunday. not 100% sure i did but till i run to napa for the bhg test kit i wont know. bought one anyway, never hurts to have it as i will need one for the built motor later anyway. im hoping its just the stock radiator not able to keep up wit hthe power im making now. it is fine till i start boosting then the temp clibs fast! lol. no white smoke though, and no water i nthe oil. its wierd.

[the t3d]

lol girlfriend might get alittle suspicious if i have guys coming over that late...haha. but seriously though. that's not that late. any other day then wednesday, that time would be fine. i actually live just over the Courtney Cambel and the bayside bridge...oh yea!

-t3d

[williamb82]

i work right by veterans and waters. could be across the causeway in no time. lol.

[the t3d]

UPDATE! lets just say it's good news, but i'll have alot of pics and info of what i did :biglaugh:

the pics and info will up later tonight

-t3d

[Weeves]

BOOOYA. Let's see and hear what happen!!

[GeneStarWindGSW]

waiting on updates lol.

[Poodles]

It's now early morning LOL

[the t3d]

LOL sorry sorry. it got late, and i got tired. i did upload all the pics and whatnot, so i'll post everything up when i get off of work

-t3d

[the t3d]

ok so what i'm going to do is post pics with info, so enjoy...

it started looking like this...
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/006-19.jpg

i got everything taken apart and off that i needed out of the way and it looked like this...
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/001-22.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/002-22.jpg

it didn't take me that long, that wasn't a big deal. took all the plugs out :icon_bigg

i got the oil feed line off the turbo...
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/003-22.jpg

organization at it's finest :biglaugh:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/006-20.jpg

got my interstate and spare battery hooked up(thank you mom)...she didn't know:sarcasm:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/011-16.jpg

oil pressure gauge...hell yea
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/010-16.jpg

ok so here's the thing...it take's either a 14mm wrench and skinny ass hands to take the stock oil pressure sender off or some giant ass specialty tool to get around the big part of the sender(which i don't have). i tried to take it off at first, but i didn't want to strip it, so i just went off the actual gauge.

i finally start cranking her over. i did it for a minute and got nothing on the gauge. i checked oil filter to see if anything was getting through while i was cranking the second time...still nothing. well, i remember one you saying about the lines, if they're backwards, oil wont flow. so, i started trying to switch the lines around.

well, that transdapt kit is tricky and doesn't really make it possible to do that on the car. So, i just said fuck it and took it off. TOOK FOREVER! plus that thing was leaking like CRAZY while i was cranking it, so whatever. i put the oil filter back in the stock location...as you can see here
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/020-10.jpg

i also got the stock sender off. it wasn't a new one that was on there. i took it off my old motor and just used that one. well, here it is. oh, and don't worry, i ordered a new one from DM.com sunday:naughty:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/019-9.jpg

i hooked up the manual oil pressure gauge and re-attached the oil feed line to the turbo. i smoked ALOT of cigarettes throughout this whole process...very frustrating. well the line is long on the gauge, so i brought it into my car and got ready to crank. i started cranking, cranking, and cranking. it started to move alittle bit and then boom pressure went up!:love: i was soo happy. i was just like HELL FUCKIN YES! i mean my back was KILLING me from being bent over so much, but i finally got what i needed.

it was getting late, so i just covered and plugged everything up and saved it for sunday
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/the_t3d/021-10.jpg

i put most everything back on sunday and just left the manual gauge attached until i get the new sender. i just want to thank everyone that helped me. i really appreciate it. you guys are awesome!

now i just need to get my intercooler pipes made...in about a week or two, and then i'm going to try and start her up.

probably gonna copy this to my build thread just so i have it on record in there :icon_bigg

thanks again everyone...ENJOY!

-t3d

[Weeves]

I can finally sleep peacefully tonight. Good job with everything. Now ask your girlfriend for a back massage.

[the t3d]

haha thanks, but i'm about to find out if my gf is pregnant or not =0(



...i'm going to kill myself



-t3d

[the t3d]

NOT PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!

:evil2:

[dumbo]

NOT PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!

:evil2:

GO BUY A LOTTERY TICKET!!!!!

Cars doing whats it supposed to, TOO!

...but you don't need thread sealant on your turbo feed line.

also maybe I missed it, but what was the problem?

[the t3d]

haha. if you're talking about why no oil pressure, then it was the relocation kit lines were switched and it was too much of a PIIA, so i just fuck it, and put the stock filter on and bam!

-t3d

[supraguy@aol]

LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY!!!!

DO NOT LET THAT AFPR LINE GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT EXPOSED ALTERNATOR WIRE!!!
That is a positive lead, and guess what- Your AFPR line is grounded.
Wanna see you new engine melt down in a hurry?

[92nsx]

^^ Nice catch, I didnt even look at that.

t3d-- glad to hear everthing is all good once again. You didnt want the oil filter mounted there any ways, it would have made a huge mess when changing and covered your DP with oil.

[the t3d]

LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY!!!!

DO NOT LET THAT AFPR LINE GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT EXPOSED ALTERNATOR WIRE!!!
That is a positive lead, and guess what- Your AFPR line is grounded.
Wanna see you new engine melt down in a hurry?

damn. i didn't even think of that. i'll have to re-arrange some things then.


thanks!

[the t3d]

^^ Nice catch, I didnt even look at that.

t3d-- glad to hear everthing is all good once again. You didnt want the oil filter mounted there any ways, it would have made a huge mess when changing and covered your DP with oil.

haha yea thanks man. i'm really happy now. i wasn't planning on making that location permanent anyway. doesn't matter now haha

now i gotta wait on these damn intercooler pipes:cry:

-t3d

[JimR]

There should be a little plastic cover for that alternator terminal. It's hard grey plastic. You can see it in this pic of my engine... and the alternative routing for your AFPR line too! lol

[the t3d]

thanks, but where could i get one of those? i could probably just cover it with some thing nice =0)

-t3d

[JimR]

I looked all over the EPC for that part... no luck yet. Your best bets are the junkyard or a parts car.

[the t3d]

i think it's time to do a junk yard visit. i love going to the junk yard =0)

-t3d

[williamb82]

i figured the lines were backwards. lol. sorry i didnt get to come by, been busy and side tracked. lol.

[the t3d]

it's cool man. she's good to go =0)

-t3d