Best oil for the 7mgte

[bovvinsuprahiro]

I am just getting a new turbo now that mine is blown and gonna swap plugs and do a little maintainance on her while she is down. Thinking about doing in engine flush and want to upgrade from the cheap shit and find out wat everyone is running and having good performance with.

[87tomanymods]

mobile 1 is pretty much the standard as far as weight heavyier offers more protection and lighter offers less drag maby a few more hp

[bovvinsuprahiro]

mobile 1 is pretty much the standard as far as weight heavyier offers more protection and lighter offers less drag maby a few more hp


cool

[bovvinsuprahiro]

I was reading on a different site... wat is SF vs SG is there another more comment name that I tuner numb would knw???

[bovvinsuprahiro]

i also read Mobil 1 is coming out with racing oil in spring of this year as spring/summer semi daily would this racing oil be over kill or bad for my MkIII. I will race it and play around but I will also go to the store in it.

[mirage83]

There's a real good forum here dealing with oil and other lubricants for use in our Supra's. All sorts of good info written by people who know what they're talking about.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108

[bovvinsuprahiro]

There's a real good forum here dealing with oil and other lubricants for use in our Supra's. All sorts of good info written by people who know what they're talking about.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108

sweet i will read it still got 4 hours at work haha

[grimreaper]

German Castrol end of thread :D

[bovvinsuprahiro]

German Castrol end of thread :D

Castrol makes tones of oil can you be a little more narrow like GTX or Full SYN i dont know wat German Castrol is to American Castrol.

[zachm611]

Castrol makes tones of oil can you be a little more narrow like GTX or Full SYN i dont know wat German Castrol is to American Castrol.

I dont think you can get german castrol any more. i believe it is called the european formula now. however it is a full synthetic 0w30 look for castrol syntec 0w30 should say european formula on it.

[GuNDeZZZ]

Mobile 1 10W30 fully syn. /thread

[jdub]

#1 - Mobil 1 is not a "full synthetic". It is a Grp III hydrocracked base stock...for the price you pay there are better alternatives. If you want to use a Grp III oil, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is a far better oil.

#2 - "German Castrol" is the nickname for Castrol European Formula 0W-30...it gets it's nickname from the "Made in Germany" found on the back label. GC (Grp IV), Red Line (Grp V) and Royal Purple (Grp IV) are the only true synthetic oils you can commonly find on the parts store shelves. AutoZone and Pep Boys carries GC...it is not discontinued.

#3 - You want an oil with the lowest 1st number (i.e. 0W or 5W) you can find for the best cold flow possible. The 7M and JZ series motors were designed for a 30W oil, so you want a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil with a ops temp (100 deg C) viscosity in the 10-12 cst range.

#4 - I use German Castrol 0W-30...it's the best bang for the buck out there IMO. You Mobil 1 guys are paying top dollar for a middle of the road oil. And, it's not a true synthetic.

#5 - To the OP...do an engine flush at your own risk. Unless you have a sludge problem, it is a waste of $$$...so are any additives you find on the parts store shelves. This is the extent of the spoon feeding you will get and is the max I will "dumb it down"...posts without relatively intelligent questions in the Lube section (which I moderate) will simply be deleted. You will have to read and learn. ;)

I'm going to single this comment out for special attention:

mobile 1 is pretty much the standard as far as weight heavyier offers more protection and lighter offers less drag maby a few more hp

<LOL at Mobil 1 "the standard"> That is one of the most inaccurate statements one can make about oil...it illustrates complete ignorance of how oil works inside an internal combustion engine. In short, heavier weight oils in a motor resist flow and is why you get higher pressures when used. Lower flow is not good for hydrodynamic bearings (like the rods and mains)...it does not offer more protection, but just the opposite. It also increases friction in the motor due to the higher viscosity and will result in less HP and decreased gas mileage. If you want to know why, read the Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas link in my sig.

[deabionni]

:withstupi

Listen to Jdub. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to oil.

I guarantee you that he's forgotten more about motor oils than you or I will probably ever learn.

[bovvinsuprahiro]

#1 - Mobil 1 is not a "full synthetic". It is a Grp III hydrocracked base stock...for the price you pay there are better alternatives. If you want to use a Grp III oil, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is a far better oil.

#2 - "German Castrol" is the nickname for Castrol European Formula 0W-30...it gets it's nickname from the "Made in Germany" found on the back label. GC (Grp IV), Red Line (Grp V) and Royal Purple (Grp IV) are the only true synthetic oils you can commonly find on the parts store shelves. AutoZone and Pep Boys carries GC...it is not discontinued.

#3 - You want an oil with the lowest 1st number (i.e. 0W or 5W) you can find for the best cold flow possible. The 7M and JZ series motors were designed for a 30W oil, so you want a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil with a ops temp (100 deg C) viscosity in the 10-12 cst range.

#4 - I use German Castrol 0W-30...it's the best bang for the buck out there IMO. You Mobil 1 guys are paying top dollar for a middle of the road oil. And, it's not a true synthetic.

#5 - To the OP...do an engine flush at your own risk. Unless you have a sludge problem, it is a waste of $$$...so are any additives you find on the parts store shelves. This is the extent of the spoon feeding you will get and is the max I will "dumb it down"...posts without relatively intelligent questions in the Lube section (which I moderate) will simply be deleted. You will have to read and learn.

I'm going to single this comment out for special attention:


<LOL at Mobil 1 "the standard"> That is one of the most inaccurate statements one can make about oil...it illustrates complete ignorance of how oil works inside an internal combustion engine. In short, heavier weight oils in a motor resist flow and is why you get higher pressures when used. Lower flow is not good for hydrodynamic bearings (like the rods and mains)...it does not offer more protection, but just the opposite. It also increases friction in the motor due to the higher viscosity and will result in less HP and decreased gas mileage. If you want to know why, read the Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas link in my sig.



Well thank you everyone for the info that was the answer I was looking for.

[bovvinsuprahiro]

ok sorry one more Question.. I was reading about air filters and people knocking on K&N I have K&N intake that came with the car and have been told that are a good brand I also have been running a K&N oil fliter. Is that a better brand in general or if I go with this GC is that a better combo people prefer?... as far as oil filters go. And wat is the issue with a K&N Air intake?

[jdub]

GC is a specific oil.

For oil filters: Wix, NAPA Gold, or PureOne. I prefer Wix (NAPA Gold is made by Wix) due to the bypass valve design and it is an excellent filter. More info here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

K&N air filters are crap. #1 - they don't filter worth a damn and #2 - the oil can damage the optical sensor on the Karman Vortex AFM found on the 7M-GTE. An AEM DryFlow is a far better choice.

deabionni - ;)

[bovvinsuprahiro]

For oil filters: Wix, NAPA Gold, or PureOne. I prefer Wix (NAPA Gold is made by Wix) due to the bypass valve design and it is an excellent filter. More info here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

K&N air filters are crap. #1 - they don't filter worth a damn and #2 - the oil can damage the optical sensor on the Karman Vortex AFM found on the 7M-GTE. An AEM DryFlow is a far better choice.

deabionni - ;)

I just got a Lexus upgrade will this change anything with wat i should run?

[Kangae]

Like the Lexus AFM (not sure what else you could be talking about)? Shouldn't be any difference in oil or oil filter, and if you are asking about air filter, I believe no difference there either (as far as brands).

[GuNDeZZZ]

My air filter of choice for a near stock 7M would have to be the Apexi Power Flow.

[Zumtizzle]

AEM Dry Flow > Apexi.

[wiseco7mgt]

GC is a specific oil.

For oil filters: Wix, NAPA Gold, or PureOne. I prefer Wix (NAPA Gold is made by Wix) due to the bypass valve design and it is an excellent filter. More info here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

K&N air filters are crap. #1 - they don't filter worth a damn and #2 - the oil can damage the optical sensor on the Karman Vortex AFM found on the 7M-GTE. An AEM DryFlow is a far better choice.

deabionni - ;)

Jdub you info is great on oil but i wonder if you get the same K@N filter we get in Australia ? I've had great results with the k@n in the past before i started using the apexi and I've read many tests that claimed the filter to be no 1 with filtration but not airflow.? I'm guessing no two filters are the same or some have more oil on them during testing. I agree on the afm issue though, oil filters = dirty honeycomb.
here's a test done in Australia if the link still works.
http://www.australianauto.com.au/HTML/Images/Air%20Filter%20Shoot%20Out.pdf

[jdub]

If it's the K&N oil type air filter, pretty sure it's the same media:
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

Per the testing above, it does flow air very well...for a very good reason...it lets an lot of dirt past. Note: This link used ISO 5011 testing procedures with a $285K machine. ;)

[Justin727]

Jdub any useful info on valvoline full syn that claims to protect better than mobil 1? reason I ask is because I usually get free synthetic oil changes at work.. Thanks

[jdub]

The Valvoline "synthetic" is a Grp III oil and is on par with Mobil 1...Pennzoil Platinum is also a Grp II, but the hydrocracking process/add pack used in it's formulation is superior to both. Free is a different matter...I would use Valvoline if I could get it for free...the price is right ;)

Use a good filter though and change it no more than 5K intervals.

[Justin727]

O yea for sure! Always used Napa Gold samething as wix but I get those for free as well. Ran nothing but the two combined in my tundra and changed the oil @ 4k always.

Tell ya what tho those motors in those trucks if taken care of properly will last forever. Alot of guys on Tundrasolutions get oil analyst regularly with suprising results between 4-10k oil changes.. Toyota built that V8 right.

But sense it's all free guess I'll stick with it in my camry. But as far as the Supra goes Euro oil will serve it well!

[92nsx]

Redline FTW. Open up you wallet and get ready to pay for it. $10-$12 a quart.

[sous]

i think i go to castrol syntec but what grade

[grimreaper]

0-30. it will say made in germany on the back of the bottle.

[adampecush]

did you happen to actually read this thread? It is there...

[Wills7MGTE]

I use AMSOIL 10W-30 turbo formulated but I have a BPU 7MGTE in my car, use it once or twice a week for crusing and a lil playing too. I love the stuff

[wiseco7mgt]

Thanks jdub for the insightful info!

[mk3tattoos]

mobil 1= spun rod bearings. seen it twice!

[bovvinsuprahiro]

Like the Lexus AFM (not sure what else you could be talking about)? Shouldn't be any difference in oil or oil filter, and if you are asking about air filter, I believe no difference there either (as far as brands).

Yes sorry it was late an AFM

[jdub]

I use AMSOIL 10W-30 turbo formulated but I have a BPU 7MGTE in my car, use it once or twice a week for crusing and a lil playing too. I love the stuff

Vs Amsoil ATM 10W-30, give the ASL 5W-30 a try. Virtually identical viscosity's at ops temp with the ASL having a small advantage cold. ;)


mobil 1= spun rod bearings. seen it twice!

I highly doubt the Mobil 1 was the cause. I don't care for that oil, but it will run just fine in a 7M.

Wisco - NP! :)

[bovvinsuprahiro]

but about this airfliter thing... I have teh Lexus AFM, Precision FM, Tanabe DP, custom 3" freeflow exhaust to 5Zigen 4in muffler, MBC, Greddy BOV, Custom 2.5 in hard pipes in and out (no 3k pipe either), all new vac lines, hardpipe for intake, just found a 57 trim CT26, so I have been chipping away at it and dont plan to keep it close to stock. The K&N seems to do the job but then again i have nothing to compare it to. So knowing this and my goals with the car I am hearing AEM is where i should be looking towards? Is this correct?

Here is a link to a Facebook pic for mod visual minus the AMF and 57trim CT26

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=40430&id=632133470#/photo.php?pid=913294&id=632133470

[grimreaper]

mobil 1= spun rod bearings. seen it twice!

maybe after it all leaked out :D

[sneakypete]

i am using Redline, and filter the oil with a Napa gold filter and a trasko filter. change the filters every 4000 miles and then the oil every 8000-10000 miles.
works great for me so far
-pete

[jdub]

^^^ That's the way to do it ;)

Pete - you might want to add a Blackstone analysis (including a TBN) to your 4000 mile interval.

[Canuckrz]

I just got a Lexus upgrade will this change anything with wat i should run?
No same style maf, just avoid the oiled type filters.

[sneakypete]

^^^ That's the way to do it ;)

Pete - you might want to add a Blackstone analysis (including a TBN) to your 4000 mile interval.

thanks for the praise. im tired of spending a ton of money on oil when i used to change it so frequently. that why i went with the good oil and filtration system. this is why i dont mind spending $12 per quart. especially if i only change the oil about once a year.

whats the turnaround time from when you send a sample in?

-pete

[jdub]

A couple weeks...it's worthwhile doing Pete. Besides wear metals, it also will show fuel dilution and coolant in the oil ;)
TBN will tell you when it needs to be changed too.

If you decide to do so, post the results in this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66757

[bovvinsuprahiro]

No same style maf, just avoid the oiled type filters.

oh ok so needs to be dry flow

[Kangae]

Sorry to get back semi-off topic, but 10000 miles? Is that ok to do if you have a good filtration system? If so I was never aware of this, in fact I have people telling me I should change my oil every 1000 miles because my car is so old (not my Supra, but my Lexus mind you, using GC and a napa gold as well if it matters).

[Rennat]

You change the filters in that time period at least once, i would do it twice and top off my oil to make sure its full.

and redline is like 9.xx a qt at my work. i get it for 6.37... your best bet is to buy a large quanity from summitracing if you dont have a local retailer.
I plan on running this batch of oil (redline 5-30) for a good 7-10k... i have two filters. so i'll just change them, make sure my oil is full. and be good.

[jdub]

Kangae - Yes it's ok with a PAO (GC) or ester (Red Line) synthetic...over an 8K OCI and I would definitely do analysis. The make-up oil you add when changing filters also replenishes the additive pack. In fact, there's a very good case that changing oil too often will increase engine wear.

[Kangae]

Kangae - Yes it's ok with a PAO (GC) or ester (Red Line) synthetic...over an 8K OCI and I would definitely do analysis. The make-up oil you add when changing filters also replenishes the additive pack. In fact, there's a very good case that changing oil too often will increase engine wear.

Hmm, thats very interesting, never knew that. I actually just bought some redline for the supra a week ago at the summit racing store near me, it was about 9.95 a quart but I've heard only great things so I figured it was worth it. Anyway, thanks for enlightening me once again. (All this oil stuff is very interesting to me)

[jdub]

Had to find the SAE technical paper ;) :


Characterization of anti-wear films formed from fresh and aged engine oils
Dairene Uya, Steven J. Simko, a, , R.O. Carter IIIa, Ron K. Jensena and Arup. K. Gangopadhyaya

Ford Motor Company, MD 3182/SRL Building, P.O. Box 2053, Dearborn, MI 48121-2053, United States

Received 15 August 2006; revised 14 December 2006; accepted 18 December 2006. Available online 23 May 2007.

Abstract
Modern engine oils are formulated with zinc dialkyl-dithiophosphate (ZDDP) compounds to protect moving metal components from wear. As emissions regulations for automobiles become more stringent, lower concentrations of these additives are being considered in future oil formulations to extend the life of the catalyst after-treatment systems. However, any formulation changes need to be carefully tested to ensure there is no degradation in friction and wear performance.

While evaluating engine oils in a prior study, we found that the valve-train wear improved markedly as the oil aged. Changes in tribological performance were linked to differences in surface film chemistry on the valve tappet components.

In the current study, we examine the friction and wear of fresh and aged engine oils in controlled laboratory tests using a simulated valve-train apparatus, ball-on-flat, and cylinder-on-flat test rigs. Surface films that form during sliding were characterized at different length scales and depth distributions using reflection infrared spectroscopy, Raman spectroscopy, and high-vacuum surface analysis. The types of species present, such as phosphates, were different between fresh and aged oil. Carbonate and sulfide were present in films formed from fresh oil, but were usually absent from aged oil. Wear control may be related to a competition between carbonate and phosphate species. Oxidized-oil-derived entities are present on aged oil coupons and appear to improve friction performance. Thus, differences in film composition are used to explain performance differences of fresh and aged oils and the results from the different test rigs.

[Kangae]

Hmm...let me see if I understand this...Its saying that carbonate and sulfide are present in fresh oils, and absent in older oil, and that the oil performs better when they are absent? If I'm missing something please let me know.

[jdub]

Some dispersant's contain sulfide, alkenylsuccinimides is one of those used in synthetic oils. Colloidal calcium carbonate is used as detergent in motor oil formulation. Once these chemicals are reduced as a result of use, the interaction with phosphates help to form an oil film that resulted in lower friction.

Clear as mud? (that's the way I understand it)

[deabionni]

^^^ Jdub, I'm surprised you didn't show him this SAE paper that you posted (http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1005476&postcount=4) about changing you oil too early.

(I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by posting that, and I'm thankful for you taking the time to help educate us about motor oils).

[jdub]

Deabionni - Thank you...I had a senior moment and misplaced it (who are you again?) :D

You are definitely not stepping on my toes! I knew there was an SAE paper around here somewhere making a very good case against changing your oil too often ;)

[Kangae]

Some dispersant's contain sulfide, alkenylsuccinimides is one of those used in synthetic oils. Colloidal calcium carbonate is used as detergent in motor oil formulation. Once these chemicals are reduced as a result of use, the interaction with phosphates help to form an oil film that resulted in lower friction.

Clear as mud? (that's the way I understand it)

Yeah it sounds pretty clear, I was just trying to clarify just to make sure. Also I'd never seen that other thing you posted (link posted by deabionni) but it was a great read, and to think that I was worried that I had gone a few hundred miles over 3000 on GC, but I suppose I should just change the filter and get it analyzed at 4k? Well, I learned a lot tonight, thanks jdub.

[jetjock]

While not on the same level as SAE the decently done Paradise Garage study also showed it, as well as proving the effects of top off oil:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

[jdub]

You're welcome Kangae. It's no wonder though with just about every shop around drilling the 3K OCI in our heads...it's just not true...another plot to separate you from your hard earned $$$. Another one is "when your oil turns dark, it's time to change it"...another myth. Heck it's just getting broke-in according to the SAE ;)

[Kangae]

You're welcome Kangae. It's no wonder though with just about every shop around drilling the 3K OCI in our heads...it's just not true...another plot to separate you from your hard earned $$$. Another one is "when your oil turns dark, it's time to change it"...another myth. Heck it's just getting broke-in according to the SAE ;)

This makes me think now, I remember I posted something in the oil section about zMAX awhile back and you posted me a link to an article, that article basically explained what was in all those mystery oil additive bottles and why none of them really worked. If I remember correctly most of them contained one of 2 things, one being teflon (cant remember the chemical name for it) and the others just contained standard oil additive packs, but in greater quantities.

Now on to my question, if the additive pack wears out in an oil, would it actually be a good thing to add some of the additive pack based oil additives (using that word alot:aigo:) after awhile, just to replenish those additives? Or would just topping off your oil be enough to do just that?

[jdub]

Topping off your oil is generally enough, especially a turbo motor that will use oil as a matter of normal ops (you're adding oil every few weeks).

[Who]

My GM suburban has over 240k miles on it and it tells you when to change the oil. The oil change monitor does not analyze the oil but it figures in your mileage, temperature, and driving habits. In the middle of the summer when ambient temps are at there highest not once has the monitor had me change the oil under 4k miles. In the winter time it goes over 5k between oil changes. That tells me that the manufactures knows a dirty little secret. Oil changes every 3k miles are excessive. Your maintence cost are higher, the environment takes a hit and its harmful to your engine. Fail x3!
Hell I've even been using Walmart synthetic 5w-30 since day one with no issues. Funny how every time I mention Walmart synthetic to a mechanic they cringe. Works fine for me.

[jdub]

Using the OCI method you follow, WalMart SuperTech is just fine. In fact, it's a pretty decent oil.

[adampecush]

My GM suburban has over 240k miles on it and it tells you when to change the oil. The oil change monitor does not analyze the oil but it figures in your mileage, temperature, and driving habits. In the middle of the summer when ambient temps are at there highest not once has the monitor had me change the oil under 4k miles. In the winter time it goes over 5k between oil changes. That tells me that the manufactures knows a dirty little secret. Oil changes every 3k miles are excessive. Your maintence cost are higher, the environment takes a hit and its harmful to your engine. Fail x3!
Hell I've even been using Walmart synthetic 5w-30 since day one with no issues. Funny how every time I mention Walmart synthetic to a mechanic they cringe. Works fine for me.

If you look in the owners manuals of most new cars, you will see that the reccomended OCI is often upwards of 8000 km (5000 miles) for the SEVERE service condition. I find this funny as the local dealer, despite having the factory recommended service intervals literaly written on the wall, will "recommend" the oil be changed at 5000 km. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to make people realize this deception (my wife included).

On my dd, I'm currently at 13,000 km since my last change (Amsoil SSO + EA Filter) and going strong. No oil burning or loss of fuel mileage to speak of as well. I'm interested to see what the UOA looks like at 15k.

[7Mboost]

#1 - Mobil 1 is not a "full synthetic". It is a Grp III hydrocracked base stock...for the price you pay there are better alternatives. If you want to use a Grp III oil, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is a far better oil.

#2 - "German Castrol" is the nickname for Castrol European Formula 0W-30...it gets it's nickname from the "Made in Germany" found on the back label. GC (Grp IV), Red Line (Grp V) and Royal Purple (Grp IV) are the only true synthetic oils you can commonly find on the parts store shelves. AutoZone and Pep Boys carries GC...it is not discontinued.

#3 - You want an oil with the lowest 1st number (i.e. 0W or 5W) you can find for the best cold flow possible. The 7M and JZ series motors were designed for a 30W oil, so you want a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil with a ops temp (100 deg C) viscosity in the 10-12 cst range.

#4 - I use German Castrol 0W-30...it's the best bang for the buck out there IMO. You Mobil 1 guys are paying top dollar for a middle of the road oil. And, it's not a true synthetic.

#5 - To the OP...do an engine flush at your own risk. Unless you have a sludge problem, it is a waste of $$$...so are any additives you find on the parts store shelves. This is the extent of the spoon feeding you will get and is the max I will "dumb it down"...posts without relatively intelligent questions in the Lube section (which I moderate) will simply be deleted. You will have to read and learn. ;)

I'm going to single this comment out for special attention:


<LOL at Mobil 1 "the standard"> That is one of the most inaccurate statements one can make about oil...it illustrates complete ignorance of how oil works inside an internal combustion engine. In short, heavier weight oils in a motor resist flow and is why you get higher pressures when used. Lower flow is not good for hydrodynamic bearings (like the rods and mains)...it does not offer more protection, but just the opposite. It also increases friction in the motor due to the higher viscosity and will result in less HP and decreased gas mileage. If you want to know why, read the Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas link in my sig.

Thank god for jdub, I thought I was gonna have to clean up all the false information people pull out of their ass!

[bovvinsuprahiro]

GC is a specific oil.

For oil filters: Wix, NAPA Gold, or PureOne. I prefer Wix (NAPA Gold is made by Wix) due to the bypass valve design and it is an excellent filter. More info here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

K&N air filters are crap. #1 - they don't filter worth a damn and #2 - the oil can damage the optical sensor on the Karman Vortex AFM found on the 7M-GTE. An AEM DryFlow is a far better choice.

deabionni - ;)


would something like this from summit racing work? I have a 6in adaptor for K&N on my afm now so i just be able to just swap it right?

AEM 21-2099DK Air Filter Element Conical Synthetic 6 in

Product Code:AVM-21-2099DK
Manufacturer:AEM

[MA70witBoost]

jdub, whats your opinion on Lucas full syntetic 10W-30 in combination w/ a K&N Oil Filter. I haven't dropped my motor in the car yet but its soon to come and I was thinking about starting it with some 5-20 semi synthetic from work w/ a purolator filter, flushing it, leaving the filter, refilling w/ some more 5-20, driving it for a week or so to make sure everything is working how it should then chaning the purolator filter and semi synthetic for the Lucas and K&N. What do you think?

[jdub]

I think you should read this concerning break-in ;)
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993

From what info I can get, Lucas is a Grp III oil. Like I said earlier in this thread, if you want to run a Grp III oil use Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30. Lucas is a middle of the road oil (at best) that is way over priced.

Same for the K&N oil filters...they are made by Champion Labs. Same company that makes WalMart SuperTech and Mobil 1 filters. The difference for Mobil 1 is it uses a synthetic media. K&N and Mobil 1 are good filters, but a Wix (NAPA Gold) or a PureOne has them beat hands down.

Why do you want to use that combo anyway? And, why run a 10W-30 when a 0W or 5W-30 will have almost identical viscosity at ops temp, but be thinner (better flow) cold?

[bovvinsuprahiro]

bump

[Rennat]

So i just found out my work carries Royal Purple, and its the cheapest my cost oil, which means its in the $4-5 a quart range... whats your opinion jdub? i know it wont compare to redline, but is it better or worse than GC 0-30?

[jdub]

Read this thread...I talk about RP in post #3. The info has not changed.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38768

[bovvinsuprahiro]

jdub is this the type of filter you are talking about>>>.

found it on summit racing website

AEM 21-2099DK Air Filter Element Conical Synthetic 6 in

Product Code:AVM-21-2099DK
Manufacturer:AEM

[jdub]

How about a link?

[bovvinsuprahiro]

How about a link?



My bad didnt click paste the first time...deedeedee


http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&Ntt=21%2D2099DK+&searchinresults=false&N=700+115

[MA70witBoost]

I think you should read this concerning break-in ;)
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993

From what info I can get, Lucas is a Grp III oil. Like I said earlier in this thread, if you want to run a Grp III oil use Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30. Lucas is a middle of the road oil (at best) that is way over priced.

Same for the K&N oil filters...they are made by Champion Labs. Same company that makes WalMart SuperTech and Mobil 1 filters. The difference for Mobil 1 is it uses a synthetic media. K&N and Mobil 1 are good filters, but a Wix (NAPA Gold) or a PureOne has them beat hands down.

Why do you want to use that combo anyway? And, why run a 10W-30 when a 0W or 5W-30 will have almost identical viscosity at ops temp, but be thinner (better flow) cold?

Well I neglected to mention that the motor im putting in my supra already has 65,000 Miles on it (but has been sitting for a few months since im freshening up the motor). As far as my reason's for the combo (what? K&N + Lucas?) The 5W-20 semi synthetic is free from work. I was able to get the 6 Quarts of Lucas 10W-30 also free. You taught me that what i believed to be true about motor oil weights is incorrect. I thought that the 10 weight would provide a bit more protection for the motor at cold temperatures. Also, as far as my choice in Lucas Motor Oil, Lucas Oil seems to have a good reputation. Same as the K&N. Atleast those are what led me to my choices. I take it i chose wrong?

[bovvinsuprahiro]

Well I neglected to mention that the motor im putting in my supra already has 65,000 Miles on it (but has been sitting for a few months since im freshening up the motor). As far as my reason's for the combo (what? K&N + Lucas?) The 5W-20 semi synthetic is free from work. I was able to get the 6 Quarts of Lucas 10W-30 also free. You taught me that what i believed to be true about motor oil weights is incorrect. I thought that the 10 weight would provide a bit more protection for the motor at cold temperatures. Also, as far as my choice in Lucas Motor Oil, Lucas Oil seems to have a good reputation. Same as the K&N. Atleast those are what led me to my choices. I take it i chose wrong?

read back on page 1 thur 3 of this thread and all your questions will be answered.

[jdub]

jdub is this the type of filter you are talking about>>>.

found it on summit racing website

AEM 21-2099DK Air Filter Element Conical Synthetic 6 in

Product Code:AVM-21-2099DK
Manufacturer:AEM

That's the correct type filter, but you want the make sure the diameter (in this case 6") matches the adapter to your AFM.



Well I neglected to mention that the motor im putting in my supra already has 65,000 Miles on it (but has been sitting for a few months since im freshening up the motor). As far as my reason's for the combo (what? K&N + Lucas?) The 5W-20 semi synthetic is free from work. I was able to get the 6 Quarts of Lucas 10W-30 also free. You taught me that what i believed to be true about motor oil weights is incorrect. I thought that the 10 weight would provide a bit more protection for the motor at cold temperatures. Also, as far as my choice in Lucas Motor Oil, Lucas Oil seems to have a good reputation. Same as the K&N. Atleast those are what led me to my choices. I take it i chose wrong?

The lowest 1st number you can get...in the case for Lucas, there is not a huge difference between the 5W-30 and 10W-30 cold viscosity wise. A lower 1st number indicates a lower cold viscosity...that is exactly what you want for a cold start.

Free is a different story ;)
like I said, Lucas is a middle of the road oil, but you are not going to hurt anything by using it. I damn sure wouldn't pay to use it though.

So no break-in is required, correct? If you want to use the 5W-20 as a engine flush, that would be fine. You can run it a 1000 miles with no problem (especially since it's cold out). If the K&N filters are also free, use them...but, it is also a middle of the road filter. Keep in mind, the quality of a Wix is worth $5 or so when you switch.

Reputation and reality are often two different things...Fram also has a "good reputation" with a lot of mechanics and it is one of the worst filter you could possibly use.

[Rennat]

thats what i was thinking... just wanted your 2 cents on it.
Looks like i'll be sticking with my redline and wix filters.

and since i removed the oem filter head, when it was really cold out one day, the oem oil pressure gauge got up to 120psi (the top) it quickly went down cause it was ohhhh... 27ish degrees out, but thats ok right? And im on a shimmed pump with exactly 5mm of washers in there.

and this is with redline 5w-30, and a dual filter relocation pushing it through dual 51515 (giant ford oil filter) 1/2'' line all the way.

[MA70witBoost]

The lowest 1st number you can get...in the case for Lucas, there is not a huge difference between the 5W-30 and 10W-30 cold viscosity wise. A lower 1st number indicates a lower cold viscosity...that is exactly what you want for a cold start.

Free is a different story ;)
like I said, Lucas is a middle of the road oil, but you are not going to hurt anything by using it. I damn sure wouldn't pay to use it though.

So no break-in is required, correct? If you want to use the 5W-20 as a engine flush, that would be fine. You can run it a 1000 miles with no problem (especially since it's cold out). If the K&N filters are also free, use them...but, it is also a middle of the road filter. Keep in mind, the quality of a Wix is worth $5 or so when you switch.

Reputation and reality are often two different things...Fram also has a "good reputation" with a lot of mechanics and it is one of the worst filter you could possibly use.

Correct. No break-in required. I was concidering compression testing the motor after initial start to make sure everything was good, but i was recommeneded to drive the car a bit so the rings would seat properly since its been sitting for a few months. Any need for this? Also plan on sending the oil out to blackstone after the synthetic swap.

[jdub]

Rennat -I've seen pressures in excess of 80-90 psi when it's cold on a shimmed pump...if it drops fairly quickly, it should be fine. Instead of using two conventional filters on your dual head, changing one to a Trasko bypass filter would significantly increase your overall filter efficiency.

Ma70 - Your rings should already be seated. Run the 5W-20 like you planned to get everything flushed out and then test compression.

[bovvinsuprahiro]

That's the correct type filter, but you want the make sure the diameter (in this case 6") matches the adapter to your AFM.


yeah it should my K&N is 6in so it should just be a swap over.

[Poodles]

- Haven't seen anything saying the AEM dryflows are better than the Apex'i. The only reason the AEM is better is they come in larger sizes for larger turbo inlet pipes. The media is the same style, and the Apex'i has a better internal cone system to promote flow. As there have been no tests to determine which is better, the Apex'i wins because of it's adapter.

- Oil flushes in a can can thin the oil too much and cause increased wear. The system that flows warm oil through the engine with a machine is the only true "flush." Any good synthetic will actively attack any buildups anyway (my engine is cleaner now after running GC than when I first dropped it in).

- I won't go anywhere near a Royal Purple product for personal reasons, there are far better products out there (GC, Redline).

[jdub]

I don't have any experience with the Apexi, so I don't bad mouth it. The media is very similar to the AEM DryFlow, so I imagine it will do a good job too.
I do know the cloth oil type (K&N) and the foam type (HKS) are crap.

I have seen flushes done with kerosene...you remove the plugs and use the starter (turning the oil pump) to run it through the engine. Follow with a 20W oil fill (same technique) to get the kerosene out, then fill with the oil you want to run. Might be useful if you had a BHG that put a lot of coolant in the oil system. Cleaning wise, a good synthetic will do a great job by itself like Poodles said.

Poo - sounds like you have the same thoughts about RP as I do about Mobil 1 ;)

[dumbo]

jdub, what are your thoughts on Rotella T. I've heard lots of good things and nothing bad. Just curious.

[jdub]

Rotella T is one of the best dino oils out there IMO...I use it in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Rotella T and Chevron Delo 400 still have healthy doses of ZDDP in their formulation. That makes both pretty popular with the domestic muscle car crowd running flat tappet cam V8's.

[deabionni]

Jdub, during the Superbowl, I seen a commercial for Castrol Edge (http://www.castroledgeusa.com/#/browse). I assume it's a new line of oil, and I'm curious if it's comparable to the GC that a lot of us run. According to their FAQ (http://www.castroledgeusa.com/#/faq) they say that it's made from a "combination of base oils which include PAO". Would that mean that it's a PAO based oil, or that there's just enough PAO in the base stock to say that it has it in there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm still sticking with my GC as it's readily available in my area; but I was wondering how comparable this oil would be to GC, just in case GC really is going the way of the dinosaur. :)

[jdub]

That phrase..."made from a proprietary blend of base oils,which includes PAO" is what got my attention about this oil. Mobil 1 uses almost the exact phrasing when they describe their oil. More info will surface, but it has the appearance of an advanced Grp III oil...time will tell if it will be as good or better than Pennzoil Platinum in the Grp III category. At $8 a quart, I'm not too sure Castrol Edge could possibly be that much better than GC or Red Line ;)

Don't confuse this with the Castrol Edge sold in Europe and Australia...these oils are to ACEA specs and I know at least a couple of them are PAO oil. The Castrol Edge sold here is made in the USA. Buyer beware of the marketing hype...I promise you it is designed to separate you from your $$$.

[dumbo]

good to hear about rotella. I use the "fully syn. 040" in my turcell, not sure how it compares to the 1540 This 'GC' castol seems tempting for the supra, right now she get Castrol 'GTX' 1030 hmmmm

[deabionni]

That phrase..."made from a proprietary blend of base oils,which includes PAO" is what got my attention about this oil. Mobil 1 uses almost the exact phrasing when they describe their oil. More info will surface, but it has the appearance of an advanced Grp III oil...time will tell if it will be as good or better than Pennzoil Platinum in the Grp III category. At $8 a quart, I'm not too sure Castrol Edge could possibly be that much better than GC or Red Line ;)


Thanks, jdub, that's what I figured. ;)

I'm just dreading the day that I walk into Autozone, and I no longer see the GC oil sitting on the shelf.

[jdub]

dumbo - If you want to use a syn diesel oil in the Turcell, Delo 400 Syn 0W-30 is a better choice for your climate vs Rotella T (it's a bit too thick). Another is Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30. I like the Pennzoil better, but either will perform quite well.

GC beats GTX hands down for the 7M ;)

deabbionni - I'm not saying Edge is a bad oil...in fact, it just might be quite good. I am saying it better be good for the current asking price ;)

I've got the same thought about GC myself...Castrol might be going to a single (Edge) product line in the US. I hope they keep GC around!

[deabionni]

deabbionni - I'm not saying Edge is a bad oil...in fact, it just might be quite good. I am saying it better be good for the current asking price ;)

I've got the same thought about GC myself...Castrol might be going to a single (Edge) product line in the US. I hope they keep GC around!

I didn't realize they were charging $8 per quart for the Edge line of oils. For that price, it had better be a PAO based oil, and not a group III based oil. (Although I highly doubt it, which is why I asked you about it). ;)

If the Edge truly is a group III based oil, and GC goes the way of the dinosaur; then it looks like I'll be switching away from Castrol altogether. (I just hope that's not the case, as GC is GREAT motor oil for the price).

[dumbo]

GC beats GTX hands down for the 7M ;)




Well next oil change it'll more than likely get GC if I can find it near Vancouver. Not bad for someone who was much agaist synthetic oil a short while ago...I hope you right jdub:)

[jdub]

Last I heard WalMart and Canadian Tire was carrying it in Canada...just make sure it says "Made in Germany" on the back. You're going to like GC and you're going to like not changing it so often...that I am sure of ;)

[dumbo]

Last I heard WalMart and Canadian Tire was carrying it in Canada...just make sure it says "Made in Germany" on the back. You're going to like GC and you're going to like not changing it so often...that I am sure of ;)

Right on i'll be checking. I change my oil/filter every 5,000kms no questions asked. And usually more often actually. Thats with my supra, and every vehichle i've owned, call me paranoid.

[Poodles]

Royal Purple uses marketing hype that it increases power on a dyno. Straight mineral oil will as well, it doesn't mean it's protecting the engine. Also, I checked my oil every time I got gas and it consumed quite a bit. Raced on the highway for a few miles, got rodknock. Check the oil after limping it home and there isn't anything on the dipstick...

Tore the engine down and most of the seals where hard as a rock and falling apart. High milage yes, but I've heard about RP shrinking seals...

I get better and more consistant oil pressure out of GC and it doesn't consume nearly as much on this used shortblock.

None of their gear oils work well in our cars (well, maybe the diff, but I still wouldn't trust it). Do NOT use Max Gear or Syncromesh in our transmissions unless you want it to grind WORSE.

Now if only I could get GC at wal-mart...

/Ranting personal opinion that shouldn't be taken as fully fact. The engine failure is speculative, but I've heard of other people having consumption issues as well. The tranny point is from trying everything in my transmission to get rid of a second gear grind... Redline MT-90 is the only thing that's made a lasting difference.

[jdub]

Right on i'll be checking. I change my oil/filter every 5,000kms no questions asked. And usually more often actually. Thats with my supra, and every vehichle i've owned, call me paranoid.

Change GC that often and you will be dumping perfectly good oil down the drain ;)
You can go 12,000 kms easy on a fill...just change the filter at 6,000 kms. Believe it or not, changing your oil TOO OFTEN has the exact opposite effect you would expect. There is a very good case for increased wear on a motor.

[dumbo]

Change GC that often and you will be dumping perfectly good oil down the drain ;)
You can go 12,000 kms easy on a fill...just change the filter at 6,000 kms. Believe it or not, changing your oil TOO OFTEN has the exact opposite effect you would expect. There is a very good case for increased wear on a motor.

Ok..not the answer I was hoping for, haha. Do you have an explantation/link for that?? Funny though I always take her easy for about 50-100kms after an oil change for peice of mind that air/ingressed contaminents are filtered ect.

[Hmong_1G]

Hey Jdub.. I'm new here but can you help me out on two questions.

1. I have been using a company ( Union Sangyo) making oil filters and other filtration products. Can you tell me if its a product worth using? I have no issues with them.... actually I have notice that their filters are very similar to OE. Any suggestions of more info on them would be great. I highly recommend them as alternatives for over the counter brands (Fram,STP,purlator,supertech,ECT). Notice in my 91 miata that oil pressure was higher with Union Sangyo filter and quieter motor. This was notice over a KnN, Fram, Bosch filter. Same oil weight and brand (castrol GTX 10w-30)

http://www.unionsangyo.com/product.htm

2. I have been following up on your write up on Mobile one... and very disappointed that mobile 1 is not a true syn. Problem is my 7M smokes on start ups ( valve stem seals or turbo seal) and I didn't know that oil weight will really matter by that much. So the truth is to not go thicker but stay OE specs or thinner? I just threw in 10w-40 mobil 1 and really didn't notice any changes. This is a 170k motor and no very very hard driving or mods. Is it safe to switch that out and return back to 5w-30 or 10w-30?
PS I have notice a knocking with the new oil... I'm not too worried as it goes away... but what a coincidence. No knocking on old oil... new mobil 1 oil; knocking?

[Poodles]

Thicker oil won't stop leaks, but it will raise pressure (resistance to flow) and starve bearings.

No comment on the oil filter though, until someone gets one and takes it apart to compare it's going to be speculation I think...

[jdub]

Ok..not the answer I was hoping for, haha. Do you have an explantation/link for that?? Funny though I always take her easy for about 50-100kms after an oil change for peice of mind that air/ingressed contaminents are filtered ect.

Try this (also a link in post #50 this thread):
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1005476&postcount=4

Post # 47 this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1231920&postcount=47

Read the link jetjock posted (#53 in this thread):
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1231976&postcount=53

LMK what you think ;)

[jdub]

Hey Jdub.. I'm new here but can you help me out on two questions.

1. I have been using a company ( Union Sangyo) making oil filters and other filtration products. Can you tell me if its a product worth using? I have no issues with them.... actually I have notice that their filters are very similar to OE. Any suggestions of more info on them would be great. I highly recommend them as alternatives for over the counter brands (Fram,STP,purlator,supertech,ECT). Notice in my 91 miata that oil pressure was higher with Union Sangyo filter and quieter motor. This was notice over a KnN, Fram, Bosch filter. Same oil weight and brand (castrol GTX 10w-30)

http://www.unionsangyo.com/product.htm

2. I have been following up on your write up on Mobile one... and very disappointed that mobile 1 is not a true syn. Problem is my 7M smokes on start ups ( valve stem seals or turbo seal) and I didn't know that oil weight will really matter by that much. So the truth is to not go thicker but stay OE specs or thinner? I just threw in 10w-40 mobil 1 and really didn't notice any changes. This is a 170k motor and no very very hard driving or mods. Is it safe to switch that out and return back to 5w-30 or 10w-30?
PS I have notice a knocking with the new oil... I'm not too worried as it goes away... but what a coincidence. No knocking on old oil... new mobil 1 oil; knocking?


Poodles pretty much nailed it...what's going to help the smoking problem is to fix it ;)
Go with GC 0W-30 ot Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30. That knock you're hearing just might be reduced flow to the bearings till the oil warms up.

Concerning filters, read this:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

I have no experience with Union Sangyo and OEM filters are not that good...in fact, they are kind of crappy. Get a Wix or a NAPA Gold and be happy ;)

I'm starting to repeat myself here guys...

[Hmong_1G]

Thanks for the fast reply. I know the best way to solve a problem is to trace it down and fix it. I'm not worried much about the smoking or knocking, but rather if I'm using the appropriate oil and weight. I heard good things about WIX filters but where I'm from no one stocks them. I'm happy with my union sangyo, but any expertise or experience can turn things around in a flash.

I was thinking about Royal purple 5w30 and a wix filter. I just did a complete coolant flush and all is well.

Thanks alot Jdub..... you are a mentor to us all.

Never did had good advice on Pennzoil motor oil... but very good luck with Pennzoil synchromesh transmission fluid ( Not in a MK3 of course).

[dumbo]

:aigo:

Now I don't know what to think...after learning valves in school, and reading all that.
Its weird to think some additives aren't active when the oil is new. I always figured oil was at its peak performance/protection when new and not aerated. In the last few days I've done a 180 on motor oils.

The only reason I put deisel oil in my tercell is because its got 200,000kms and no history. So I used "thicker" oil to help take up any clearances. AND THE ONLY REASON I WENT TO SYNTHETIC:mad: is because as you stated, 1540 is a little thick at -30c, on a cold startup.

Your advice to me was sound throughout my build, and since you've prolly forgot more than I know about motor oil...for now:naughty::biglaugh:
I will be switching to GC when I'm done beating on my car for 2 weeks in march, and only because it may be sitting for a long time before its driven again.(currently, Castrol GTX 10w30, and only about 700kms in 5days, been sitting 3 months:icon_frow)

One last thing, on one of the links you posted, it states Mobil 1 is good to
400F sump temps. Now I thought ALL oils begin to breakdown rapidly when they reach 250f/121c, is this not true for synthetic oils?

WOW to much typing, time to learn hydraulic valves...:icon_sad:

[jdub]

For PAO and ester based oils...no. That's why they are used in jet turbines (ester is the 1st choice now) ;)
Not "loosing viscosity" is kind of a misstatement....all oils, including synthetics, drop in viscosity as they get hot. The difference is a PAO or ester synthetic will retain lubrication ability.

I certainly hope no motor I ever own hits a 400 deg F sump temp...I'd have a lot more to worry about than oil viscosity at that point ;)

Also realize at the longer change intervals, you will be adding make-up oil along the way...especially when you change the filter (up to a qt). You replenish the additives in your sump, adding to the life of the oil.

[dumbo]

I certainly hope no motor I ever own hits a 400 deg F sump temp...I'd have a lot more to worry about than oil viscosity at that point ;)


Of course haha, but 250f has been pounded in my head.

I never looked at make up oil as a good thing, just my friends old sentra ''that burned so much oil I just change the filter'', lol.

It makes sense, within reason.

I got a question, I just thought about.

If you did partial oil changes, and constant filter changes, would you cut down on intial oil change 'wear'? Then you would always have active additives 100% of the time, right? While still taking most solids, and water because its denser. Think about it?

[jdub]

You can make that argument, but IMO that's taking it a bit far. What will get you is TBN, the ability of the oil to neutralize the acidic byproducts of combustion. I know you can take a PAO or ester based synthetic to 15K miles or more...if you do that without doing oil analysis, you are taking a pretty big leap of faith. Using analysis, you simply change when the TBN drops below 2...that's assuming the analysis is showing everything else (wear metals, fuel dilution, coolant in oil, etc) is normal. Analysis at the 4K mile point when you change the filter would work well.

[dumbo]

I was just curious as to your thoughts.

[Poodles]

Someone in the oil forums was running redline and getting oil analysis. IIRC they said with the filter changes with the top off oil it appears it could go forever without a change...

As jdub said, without the analysis, you won't know. That's for HIS engine and no two engines are the same...

[Orion ZyGarian]

I wanted to add my 2 in Hg to this thread.

A while back, I did a bunch of research after hearing that maybe Mobil 1 wasnt the best, which is what I always believed. In fact, my Supra still has M1 15w-50 in it right now as its been sitting for a few years. I changed the oil when I got it to M1 (again, I thought it was the best). I'm pretty sure using the same oil messed with my second Supra, as it blew a turbo seal (I already knew the turbo was bad when I bought it, but not how bad) and eventually got rod knock (probably from burning off too much oil).

Anyways, thanks to jdub, his link, others here (like good ol' Dr. Jonez) and big thanks to Bob is the Oil Guy forums (www.bobistheoilguy.com), I have chosen my preferred setup: Royal Purple 10w30 with NAPA Gold filter. I'd do 4000 mi filter changes and 8000 oil changes if I could, but currently the speedo doesnt work (was never changed from the auto to manual conversion).

The reason I chose Royal Purple 10w30 is because it has a different formula than 5w-30 etc. and IIRC, better additives. In fact, 10w-30 is thinner and closer to the ideal lubrication number than 5w-30 (see
http://www.supramania.com/aehaas/agip.rp.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15400442786.jpg
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15400442775.jpg

Having seen the NAPA Gold oil filter cut open, compared, and analyzed with the other choices, I also chose it, since its one of (if not) the best out there. Also, RP is the highest quality oil I can get at NAPA, saving me the trouble of going elsewhere for the two. Also, in this thread (post 4 and the last post of page one) were responses from RP themselves that were free of bs and such, which I was glad to read: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354410&fpart=1

And finally, my good friend used to use Mobil 1 in his Eclipse for a while, then tried RP. His lifters went silent and his car ran much better. I know its just one instance and not much to go by, but its just another reason for me to use it. He's used it for a while and loves it.

Haha, and I just learned that Dr. Haas that wrote the info in the link of jdub's sig is from the same town as me! Sweet.

[jdub]

OZ - Nice post...a couple things though.

Here is RP's latest data sheet:
http://royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/motor-oil-ps.pdf

Note that the ops temp viscosity is only a 0.2 cst difference between the 5W and 10W-30 oils...there is a 5.0 cst difference at the cold viscosity. Either oil will work, but the 5W-30 is the thinner oil (cold...where it really counts) and the one with a slight edge. The difference in hot viscosity is nothing...it does illustrate the point the a 5W-30 oil is sometimes actually a bit thicker than it's 10W-30 cousin.

As far as I know, RP's 30W multigrades contain pretty much the same additive package, except the VII's needed to meet a 5W vs 10W cold viscosity requirements. Both use RP's Synerlec additive. However, the XPR line is different...no claims to meet API specs and no data sheet is published for the XPR line. Can you point me to the info that says the additive package is different for a 10W vs 5W-30 street oils?

I always suspected RP oils contain a healthy dose of ZDDP and based on the BITOG posts, even more so for the XPR line. That's why RP oil is so popular with the domestic muscle car crowd running flat tappet cam motors. I also suspect RP's Synerlec additive is the primary ZDDP carrier, can't prove it though ;)

[Orion ZyGarian]

OZ - Nice post...a couple things though.

Here is RP's latest data sheet:
http://royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/motor-oil-ps.pdf

Note that the ops temp viscosity is only a 0.2 cst difference between the 5W and 10W-30 oils...there is a 5.0 cst difference at the cold viscosity. Either oil will work, but the 5W-30 is the thinner oil (cold...where it really counts) and the one with a slight edge. The difference in hot viscosity is nothing...it does illustrate the point the a 5W-30 oil is sometimes actually a bit thicker than it's 10W-30 cousin.

As far as I know, RP's 30W multigrades contain pretty much the same additive package, except the VII's needed to meet a 5W vs 10W cold viscosity requirements. Both use RP's Synerlec additive. However, the XPR line is different...no claims to meet API specs and no data sheet is published for the XPR line. Can you point me to the info that says the additive package is different for a 10W vs 5W-30 street oils?

I always suspected RP oils contain a healthy dose of ZDDP and based on the BITOG posts, even more so for the XPR line. That's why RP oil is so popular with the domestic muscle car crowd running flat tappet cam motors. I also suspect RP's Synerlec additive is the primary ZDDP carrier, can't prove it though ;)

Thanks for that link. I'm thought there have been changes to the makeup of the oils since my initial research, but a quick freezing cold trip to the garage shows that I do have 6 quarts of API SL spec oil and not SJ spec like I thought it was. I believe the reason I thought this had a bit to do with the now outdated oil spec sheet that I had just posted.

Yet another part of my decision on 10w-30 is that Florida gets hot. Obviously not now, but in the summer (when I originally bought the oil), temps are usually 80-90 degrees F with loads of humidity. By the time I'm down the street and hit my first stop light, my coolant is already up to operating temps. Yes, the 5w would still be better for initial warmup, but I feel being slightly over the "ideal 10.0" is preferable in a warmer environment.

I'll look further to see if there really are any other differences in composition, but I doubt it.

Here's an oil analysis for RP's XPR 0w-10:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1258460

Apparently claim a very strong additive package at 7.6 where anything over 1 or so is desirable. However, this is far from enough to convince me to use it, solely for the fact that my cars are pretty much dedicated DD cars, and RP says these are for track cars and not street driving.

[jdub]

Just a FYI - I live in Phoenix (lived in S. FL and Tampa for a while too) and I know for a fact it's definitely hotter here. I use 0W-30 GC. ;)

It appears (I could be wrong) you are misunderstanding what the 10W-30 numbers mean. All the 10W shows is how the oil will behave cold...it has nothing to do with viscosity at ops temp (like you are concerned about). That is shown by the 2nd number (the 30 in this case)...at ops temp (100 deg C) the oil has a viscosity in the 9.30-12.49 cst range to meet API specs for a 0W, 5W, or 10W-30 oil.

Basically what you want is an oil (brand you want to use) with the lowest 1st number possible, with a 2nd number that meets engine operating requirements. In this case, the RP 5W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 65.3 cst...the 10W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 70.3 cst. Note that both are 6-7 times the 100 deg C ops temp viscosity (11.0 cst for the 5W and 10.8 cst for the 10W)...that's my point...oil is significantly thicker cold, even at 40 deg C (104 deg F). Think what the oil is like at 0 or 10 deg C ;)

Yes I'm splitting hairs, but your logic about running a 10W-30 due to summer temps is invalid considering both the 5W and 10W-30 versions of this oil are almost identical viscosity at a 100 deg C ops temp. If anything, the 5W-30 is a tad bit thicker at ops temp than the 10W-30...actually better suited to a warm climate.

I also feel the same way about RP XPR oils...personally, I would not use them in a street car.

[Orion ZyGarian]

Just a FYI - I live in Phoenix (lived in S. FL and Tampa for a while too) and I know for a fact it's definitely hotter here. I use 0W-30 GC. ;)

It appears (I could be wrong) you are misunderstanding what the 10W-30 numbers mean. All the 10W shows is how the oil will behave cold...it has nothing to do with viscosity at ops temp (like you are concerned about). That is shown by the 2nd number (the 30 in this case)...at ops temp (100 deg C) the oil has a viscosity in the 9.30-12.49 cst range to meet API specs for a 0W, 5W, or 10W-30 oil.

Basically what you want is an oil (brand you want to use) with the lowest 1st number possible, with a 2nd number that meets engine operating requirements. In this case, the RP 5W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 65.3 cst...the 10W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 70.3 cst. Note that both are 6-7 times the 100 deg C ops temp viscosity (11.0 cst for the 5W and 10.8 cst for the 10W)...that's my point...oil is significantly thicker cold, even at 40 deg C (104 deg F). Think what the oil is like at 0 or 10 deg C ;)

Yes I'm splitting hairs, but your logic about running a 10W-30 due to summer temps is invalid considering both the 5W and 10W-30 versions of this oil are almost identical viscosity at a 100 deg C ops temp. If anything, the 5W-30 is a tad bit thicker at ops temp than the 10W-30...actually better suited to a warm climate.

I also feel the same way about RP XPR oils...personally, I would not use them in a street car.

Yes, you are splitting hairs and are misunderstanding me :icon_razz. I know what the first number refers to etc., but my point with the 10w-30 being thicker was comparing it to the ideal viscosity number of 10 @ 100 deg C, not comparing to the 5w version.

Also, at the time of purchase, 0w and 5w-30 werent available in 6 quart quantities at NAPA. Yes MkIII newbies, 6. I stand by Dr. Jonez's ideal of running the extra quart in the sump for piece of mind and protection. You sure arent going to get any more oil in the engine between oil changes; you can lose it though.

[jdub]

Yeah... know. I kinda have to split hairs because of the volumes of misinfo about oil floating around and if I let something slide, it ends up coming back to bite me. The 5W-30 is the thicker oil at ops temp, but not enough of a difference to mean squat.

The 10W-30 is fine to use and choosing it due to availability is all good. "Ideal viscosity" is a moving target and will depend on the individual motor...anything in the 10-12 cst range at 100 deg C will work great.

[Tire Shredder]

I'm going to toss this oil into the fray since I will be using it on my 7MGE. It's been turning in some excellent UOAs on bob is the oi lguy forums. Raptor racing is an amsoil dealer near me and can get it very easily.

I'm a bit of an amsoil fanboy and their filters look excellent too.

amsoil SSO 0w-30
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/sso.aspx

[jdub]

Only thing I don't like about Amsoil is the price (expensive) and the way they market. Overall, Amsoil blends very a good oil...keep in mind the XL line is a Grp III base stock, which Amsoil (to their credit) freely tells you so. SSO is a PAO oil...it's excellent. So are the EaO filters...probably the best on the market for a single conventional full flow filter. You gonna pay top $$$ for both though ;)

BTW - I tried SSO in my 7M several years ago...my valve train got pretty noisy. I switched to GC after that and it quieted down significantly. Your experience may be different.

[Tire Shredder]

Only thing I don't like about Amsoil is the price (expensive) and the way they market. Overall, Amsoil blends very a good oil...keep in mind the XL line is a Grp III base stock, which Amsoil (to their credit) freely tells you so. SSO is a PAO oil...it's excellent. So are the EaO filters...probably the best on the market for a single conventional full flow filter. You gonna pay top $$$ for both though ;)

BTW - I tried SSO in my 7M several years ago...my valve train got pretty noisy. I switched to GC after that and it quieted down significantly. Your experience may be different.


agreed on all points Jdub. Amsoil certainly is expensive but it's something that means a lot to me. It makes me feel good knowing I have a quality product in there. I drive my car 10-12k (km) a year so a quality synthetic oil will last me the whole season. For this reason I don't mind spending a little bit higher premium to have good oil in there. Actually in my opinion when you get to the upper eschelon of quality synthetic oils, you begin to split hairs. They are all so good that any small differences in them are almost insignificant. Since I've don research on this I've kind of come full circle...I understand a quality conventional oil in certain conditions and changed when it's required can be an excellent option.

I don't care for the way that amsoil is marketed either, but I can say I have had nobody come to my house or pyramid scheme their way into their sales. My own research has led me to their products. That said I have read some of their dealer training material and watched a DVD on the history of the company. I understand why they went to the direct marketing approach to begin with. No parts store would carry an oil essentially adapted for automobiles in a guy's garage. Most stores had large contracts with castrol, quaker state and the like. The direct marketing approach was the only real way they could get the product out to customers. Once it gained credibility and a customer base, it became available in regular parts stores (at least here in canada. Carquest, canadian tire, napa and partsource all carry it now.

I do not want to go through the extra expense of a bypass style filtering system. I just don't run the OCI's or the ball bearing (or otherwise) turbo turbo that justifies it. The eao filters seem to fit the bill of being super nice but not unnecessarily so.

that's interesting you comment on valve train noise. Your comment my have just changed my final decision, however my engine was just rebuilt, including re-shimming of the valves so it may be different. I am still tempted to try.

[jdub]

My 1st syn fill after break-in was Mobil 1 5W-30...it was ok, but my brand new motor was making valve noise. (I also discovered what Mobil 1 really was). I switched to SSO and the noise actually got a bit worse, especially at start-up. GC was what finally got it to quiet down...like I said, YMMV ;)

[Fuzz420]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.

[jdub]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.


The answer is in the Lube Section...this sticky to be exact:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993

[Tire Shredder]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.

It's been said 80% is done in the first 20 miles. some say 2500 miles it should be done enough to switch to synthetic. 5000miles to be safe...it won't hurt anything to go that long with conventional oil. many oil changes during break-in is key. Change the oil frequently when it's new. I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

I've also heard of others putting synthetic oil in their engine right from the first startup without issues. However I would never recommend this. I've used conventional for 5k and my rings seated perfectly.

[jdub]

I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

A bit over kill, but like you said, it won't hurt either. Switching over to a syn oil at the 1,500 mile point is perfectly safe....i.e. sub 1,500 for 1,000 above and switch to a syn oil with a Wix filter.
If the motor is not broke in by the 1,500 mile point, it's not going to break in ;)

[Fuzz420]

The answer is in the Lube Section...this sticky to be exact:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993
lmao my bad, my question is in the title and everything:3d_frown:


It's been said 80% is done in the first 20 miles. some say 2500 miles it should be done enough to switch to synthetic. 5000miles to be safe...it won't hurt anything to go that long with conventional oil. many oil changes during break-in is key. Change the oil frequently when it's new. I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

I've also heard of others putting synthetic oil in their engine right from the first startup without issues. However I would never recommend this. I've used conventional for 5k and my rings seated perfectly.

thanks