PDA

View Full Version : Running without an innercooler??



PorterzSupra
November 9th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Realistically, if I ran my car without an innercooler just piped it up direct what would the difference be? I know it would be getting warmer air so I could lose a little power but in reality how much? I can't imagine an air to air innercooler making a really big difference in the air temp unless it was really cold out and you were driving at lest 45-50 mph to let it cool. what do you guys think?

SupraMario
November 9th, 2005, 01:56 PM
I would say a lot, colder the air the more condenced it is, so its going to help the fuel burn a lot better. I'm going to say you will lose a substancial amount of power from this.

IJ.
November 9th, 2005, 02:00 PM
You'll limit the amount of boost you can run before detonation.

Compressor outlet temps will always be much higher than Ambient temp so an IC is always going to make a difference in charge density/power output.

I have a spare 7M I'll build to transplant into my daily driver/beater/work vehicle that will get a GT30R no IC and minimal boost.

GrimJack
November 9th, 2005, 02:06 PM
One of the local guys here did this with his 7M-GTE powered 4x4 for a while, it worked ok until he found an air-water IC setup that would fit. He definitely had to keep the boost down to avoid detonation.

Idealsupra
November 9th, 2005, 02:13 PM
its called hot piping.....and it can be done and will work fine... however you will probably be REALLY close to max boost with that setup on STOCK boost.... 6-8psi would be MAX to run hot piping....otherwise youre just asking for trouble...

now if you wanted to do this to move a car or something to make it run since we all know with the gay afm in the system the car wont run without ic piping....then go for it....

IJ.
November 9th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Jay: I don't think it would be anywhere near detonation @ stock boost levels with no IC.

I've ran lots on motors in the past with no IC to quite high levels of boost with no issues, all depends on tune/fuel/timing and any bandaids that are needed to make it work.

You just limit the potential power output as the charge will be less dense than with an IC.

Idealsupra
November 9th, 2005, 02:25 PM
Jay: I don't think it would be anywhere near detonation @ stock boost levels with no IC.

I've ran lots on motors in the past with no IC to quite high levels of boost with no issues, all depends on tune/fuel/timing and any bandaids that are needed to make it work.

You just limit the potential power output as the charge will be less dense than with an IC.

eh maybe.... but with questions like this...i like to walk the side of the fence that is for SURE safe...otherwise in a week we will see a thread called "Blew up my motor because i ran without an ic" :biglaugh:

now ij do you REALLY think this kid is going to go through the hassle of tuning the car properly to make sure theres no detonation? come on now lol... as soon as he gets the yes answer its by by IC...pipe from turbo to IC and bam hes off.....:3d_frown:

IJ.
November 9th, 2005, 02:28 PM
ROFLMAO Jay point taken! ;)

I can't understand why someone would remove an IC to do this if it's already fitted!

Charlie97L
November 9th, 2005, 02:30 PM
I can't imagine an air to air innercooler making a really big difference in the air temp unless it was really cold out and you were driving at lest 45-50 mph to let it cool. what do you guys think?

well when the ait temp coming out of the turbo is several hundred degrees F, 70 degrees seems like ice.

i wouldn't recommend it, especially on a high mileage engine that probably has it's original headgasket... WHY would you want to do this anyway? did you get in a wreck a break your IC? did soemone tell you intercoolers drastically cut spool time? with our turbo, even hot piping it, it really won't spool faster.

Mr.SelfDestruct
November 9th, 2005, 02:30 PM
what you do, is make hot pipes, right, and put sort of an outer tube thing, and whenever you race, turne the boost up, and put dry ice in the outer tube, it'll work better than either of the other types of intercoolers mentioned. (old school technique that my boss told me.[he was a two-time national superstock drag racing champ in the 50's, and he used this technique in his airbox])

shaeff
November 9th, 2005, 03:17 PM
what you do, is make hot pipes, right, and put sort of an outer tube thing, and whenever you race, turne the boost up, and put dry ice in the outer tube, it'll work better than either of the other types of intercoolers mentioned. (old school technique that my boss told me.[he was a two-time national superstock drag racing champ in the 50's, and he used this technique in his airbox])

i bet it wouldnt work better than a dry iced intercooler. ;) just tryin to burst your bubble! haha. :)

-shaeff

mullenc525
November 9th, 2005, 03:34 PM
what you do, is make hot pipes, right, and put sort of an outer tube thing, and whenever you race, turne the boost up, and put dry ice in the outer tube, it'll work better than either of the other types of intercoolers mentioned. (old school technique that my boss told me.[he was a two-time national superstock drag racing champ in the 50's, and he used this technique in his airbox])

No way it would work as well as a decent A2A intercooler. You need surface area and temperature difference to transfer the heat, and a 2.5" tube has minimal surface area compared to the inside of an IC.

GrimJack
November 9th, 2005, 03:41 PM
BTW folks, without the intercooler and all of it's piping in there, stock boost is 10-11 psi. That's what the 4x4 crew was getting when they just clocked the turbo straight into the throttle body, no boost control.

Charlie97L
November 9th, 2005, 08:13 PM
BTW folks, without the intercooler and all of it's piping in there, stock boost is 10-11 psi. That's what the 4x4 crew was getting when they just clocked the turbo straight into the throttle body, no boost control.

i still don't know why he'd want to do it... just get a BC... i mean, the 4x4 guys probably also rebuilt the engine before they did that too.

TONY!
November 9th, 2005, 08:25 PM
Most of the heat that an intercooler removes is not from coming from the turbo, but from the air being compressed. When you compress air, you create heat.
If you ever take a spray can that is under pressure and hold it upside down and spray it to release the pressure, the can will have frost on it during a 65F warm day. You can also hold your finger under an air compressor’s release valve and see that the air coming out will be colder than the ambient air. This is the inverse of what happens with a turbo compressing and pressurizing air. When you compress air you create heat and so the inverse will be that when you depressurize air you will lose heat.

As a reference, a 1984 Regal Grand National Turbo has 15 lbs of boost with no intercooler—from the factory.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/buick-grandnational/buick-grandnational.shtml

Boostedstr8six
November 9th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Most of the heat that an intercooler removes is not from coming from the turbo, but from the air being compressed. When you compress air, you create heat.


and what does a turbo do to air?

TONY!
November 9th, 2005, 08:54 PM
and what does a turbo do to air?
Well...of course a turbo compresses air. I think we all know that.

I meant that the incoming air is heated more from being compressed than from passing through a hot turbocharger.

I would think that most people would have understood me as well.

SP 7M
November 10th, 2005, 02:56 AM
I don't understand why you'd take something off of your car that helps with performance and keeps your engine running under safer conditions.

PorterzSupra
November 10th, 2005, 07:33 AM
The problem is my innercooler has a nasty leak so I took it off and I was thinking of running an air to water I guess thoes connect to your coolant system ? Just waiting to get the money to buy one...

Charlie97L
November 10th, 2005, 07:36 AM
The problem is my innercooler has a nasty leak so I took it off and I was thinking of running an air to water I guess thoes connect to your coolant system ? Just waiting to get the money to buy one...

air to water run a different system. you have a water tank, pump, lines, a radiator/heat exchanger, and the core. it's a closed system. very good though. i think IJ is using a PWR setup. very stealth.

Boostedstr8six
November 10th, 2005, 09:34 AM
Well...of course a turbo compresses air. I think we all know that.

I meant that the incoming air is heated more from being compressed than from passing through a hot turbocharger.

I would think that most people would have understood me as well.


I pretty much figured that's what you were trying to say. A little clarification never hurt anyone though. :)

IJ.
November 10th, 2005, 11:58 AM
air to water run a different system. you have a water tank, pump, lines, a radiator/heat exchanger, and the core. it's a closed system. very good though. i think IJ is using a PWR setup. very stealth.
All depends on the system you buy but Charlie is correct with mine it's a totally self contained unit!

Some of the Drag type systems just use a box that you fill with Water and Ice.

Best analogy I can think of is everyone's played with a bicycle pump and held their finger over the end and pumped...... got hot didn't it? ;)

This is what happens in a Turbo when it's pumping.