rod knock?

[Finnon]

have a listen please guys

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/th_Video0002.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/?action=view&current=Video0002.flv)

[amichie]

No.

[Finnon]

ohh please lol

[IJ.]

Get another vid with the camera at the front of the car with the hood open.

[mazzer]

may as well have recorded someone elses car.. that's the worst vid ever


rev the car while under the hood with the cam. from what little i heard , it doesn't sound good.

run it low on oil ?

[Finnon]

oil is a tad low like. bottom of the hash marks on dip stick

[Finnon]

and yeah i guess it isnt the greatest vid. ill do another tomorrow and rev it till it starts rattlin

[suprarx7nut]

Put some oil in there asap. If you know it's low(aka, below the full mark) then why dont you add a bunch more? Like maybe almost 2 quarts...

[AJ'S 88NA]

I can bearly hear a little rattling. Hope not but let's see another video like IJ said from the front.

[Finnon]

im uploading another vid now. yeah ill put oil in.

It isnt my supra. mine has fresh oil in and is regularly serviced. the oil in this car is well black and dirty. i added a bit but will have to go buy some more. perhaps ill know more when i drain it all out.

[Finnon]

a better clip for you guys to listen too
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/th_Video0004.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/?action=view&current=Video0004.flv)

[IJ.]

Knock knock knocking on heavens doooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrr :(

[AJ'S 88NA]

Yeah Finnon, I think you got more to worry about than a short shifter, sorry man.

Don't run it too much more, don't want the rod to come loose, or mess the crank up anymore than it is.

[Finnon]

yeah that short shift thing was before i had had a decent look at it. im undecided what i should do just now tbh. i might swap engines from my supra to my bros with the buggered engine. i might ebay the pair of them and look for a better car. im kinda just considerin just now

[Finnon]

ohhh and for comedy effect (english accent) shit shite bugger and damn

[suprarx7nut]

That would be rod knock. Bummer. :(

[jgcable]

Doesn't sound like rod knock to me. Sounds more like either lifter bucket clatter or bearing clatter.

[amichie]

There is no way that is rod knock.

Try taking one spark plug lead off at atime and running on 5 cylinders to see if you can identify if the noise is coming from one cylinder or not.

[Dr Chill]

knock, knock.........whos there ?....................Rod
.
.

that sux man
dont let it discourage you though

[suprarx7nut]

Doesn't sound like rod knock to me. Sounds more like either lifter bucket clatter or bearing clatter.

By bearing clatter, do you perhaps mean rod knock? :dunno:

If not how is bearing clatter any different from rod knock? Sounds like a different name for the same disease...

[johnathan1]

That doesn't sound like rod knock to me...unless every single rod bearing is bad...but usually it is just one it seems.

I would check the crank pulley and make sure it isn't loose, check all the obvious things like the fan etc, it could even be clutch related or bad bearings in the water pump or alternator...

Just my .02

Also, how is your oil pressure? I'd imagine it would be quite low if it were rod bearings.

[Finnon]

oil pressure looks to be the same as on my other supra. one thing i did notice is the fan belt looks a bit slack. i guess i should maybe try starting her up with out any drive belts on.

ohhh. one thing. when i came to move the car a couple of weeks ago i started it and there was what sounded like a dry whiring noise i assumed to be alternater related

[Finnon]

ohh and i got a 19mm socket on the crank pulley bolt earlier. i tried to tighten it but all i was succeding in doing was turn the engine over with it in gear (the hand brake must want re adjusting again.) the car was ever so slightly starting to budge forward

[jgcable]

By bearing clatter, do you perhaps mean rod knock? :dunno:

If not how is bearing clatter any different from rod knock? Sounds like a different name for the same disease...


No, I was talking about possibly the alternator or the water pump or even the cam bearings.

[benchwarmer]

If that's rod knock then he's definitely knocking on more than one cylinder. Look at the AC tensioner pulley at 15 seconds to go in the second video. It's hard to tell but it looks like it's wobbling like crazy.

[suprarx7nut]

No, I was talking about possibly the alternator or the water pump or even the cam bearings.

hmm.. I could see if that was an extremely loose pulley perhaps...

Check belts, use a mechanics stethoscope, try to narrow down the location of the noise. Did you try pulling plug wires to check if it is localized in one or more cylinders?

[Muzy]

I would lean towards some accessary being loose, like others have said. Rod knock "no"
Muzy

[Finnon]

hmmm well ill give a list of what im going to do.

pull oil filter and cut it open to check its insides
pull plug wires one by one (must buy some decent pliers for this task)
remove all the drive belts and see if this noise dissapears

once again, to me the oil pressure seems fine going off what my other supras oil pressure has always read

also when i start it there is a squeak squeak squeak noise from one pulley (both supras do this)

and as i said before there was that nasty noise from i assumed the alternater (kinda a dry whiring sort of noise)

[IJ.]

To rule out the accessories just remove the belts and run it and see if the knock is still there.

Auto or manual?

[Finnon]

1988 manual

[IJ.]

Ok that rules out another likely suspect
(cracked auto driveplate)

[Finnon]

aye deffo. hmmm, IJ are you totally convinced its rod knock? obviously only from what you have heard

[IJ.]

Nope never totally convinced till I pull an engine down but it sounds just like my NA when I knocked it :(

The fact it quiets down a bit around idle then gets louder around 2000 is another indicator, does it get a bit quieter at 2500?

[Finnon]

seems to be roughly the same from 2k up to 3k i didnt wanna go past that incase something went pop.

i picked up a new oil filter today so i can atleast pull off the old filter and cut it up to see whats inside it.

[Finnon]

whilst im on i noticed that the alt/fan belt is quite loose. it doesnt slip though

[IJ.]

As I said last page run it without the belt and see if the noise goes away Finn.

[Finnon]

ive finished most of my other jobs so i can wether permiting have a look tomorrow after ive finished work.

Its awkward working on cars out side especially with the crappy uk wether

[IJ.]

Understandable I spent 4 months there when I was a kid ;)

[Finnon]

think its got worse since you were here then. im sure it waits till i want to do something outside and then starts raining

[IJ.]

It was the first time in my life I'd been in minus temps ;)

I think during Winter here I suffer the same issue, we're in a huge drought but it manages to rain on me for 40 seconds the minute I walk outside!

[Finnon]

haha i know the feeling too too well. I have a few family members from your country. byron bay i think is where some of them live. they always moan about how cold and wet it is if there over in the uk visiting

[Finnon]

right i pulled the alt belt and the air con belt. still got clicky type noise. doesnt seem as bad/ loud as before though. but perhaps thats just because theres now no fan noise etc. How does the pas belt come off? is there a pivot bolt underneath that ill have to loosen from beneath the car?

Its just starting to get dark now so gonna be restricted for time again soon.

one thing i thought about today. could it be an exhaust manifold leak? i had a noise on my other supra where it clicked like mad on startup but went away within a few minutes. was cured by re sealing the manifold to head gasket

[Finnon]

right a new vid wif alt belt and air con belt removed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/th_Video0006.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/?action=view&current=Video0006.flv)

remember i only had at best an hour to do this once id finished work. its now dark outside and its 1855 here

[amichie]

right a new vid wif alt belt and air con belt removed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/th_Video0006.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v493/finnon/?action=view&current=Video0006.flv)

remember i only had at best an hour to do this once id finished work. its now dark outside and its 1855 here


Just do the spark plug lead test. It takes like 2 minutes and then you will know if it is coming from a particular cylinder. You dont need pliers. Just stop the engine and pull a lead off at the dizzy. Then start and listen.

It takes much less time than making and uploading a video.

[IJ.]

Easier to pull injector clips.

Just pulling one belt isn't isolating much Finn, the Pwr Steer pump has a pivot bolt at the bottom.

AC has the Idler you just loosen the nut in the middle then back the adjuster down.

But having said all that and listening to the engine I really don't think it's anything external.

Does the Balancer wobble at all while it's running?

[AJ'S 88NA]

I don't think it's external either. Do the spark plug wire check as suggested see if you can narrow it down a bit.

[Finnon]

rite ill check tomorrow and see what happens. ill check the balancer out aswell. i tried the nut and with the car in gear was still just turning the engine over

[Finnon]

by injector clips im guessing you mean the wiring plugs to each injector?

[amichie]

It does sound very metallic.

Rod knock is characterised by being regular and very highly correlated with engine rpm (as rpm increases the noise becomes more frequent). It is often not heard at idle and starts to kick in at a couple of thousand rpm.

If you have a buggered big end then if you let the car sit overnight and then start it the bearings will make a hell of a noise until oil pressure builds up.

[benchwarmer]

It still doesn't sound like RK to me. Rod knock is usually a stead tapping sound directly proportional to engine speed. This sound is unsteady and gets louder with RPM's but not really any faster.

[Finnon]

on a cold start up it goes tap tap tap tap as can be heard in my video a few posts back. that was started from cold after standing for a couple of days

[86yota]

it kinda sounds like its coming from the head i would take the valve covers off and take a peek. almost sounds like valve caps or something i would check the head first. its easy to do.

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

Finnon, have you tried this yet??? You don't need special pliers to do that. If you get shocked just man up and keep going.



Try taking one spark plug lead off at atime and running on 5 cylinders to see if you can identify if the noise is coming from one cylinder or not.

[suprarx7nut]

Finnon, have you tried this yet??? You don't need special pliers to do that. If you get shocked just man up and keep going.

Or do what IJ suggested and do it using the injector clips. No shock hazard doing that. ;)

[Finnon]

tried removing the plug leads. the injector plugs were a bit tight so thought it best to avoid them for now.

the noise is still present though seemed to be a bit quieter with number 2 plug off.

It also seems to have quietend down a lot since i put oil in it. (obvious i guess)

[Finnon]

anything else i could check? or am i deffo looking at rod knock here?

[grimreaper]

are there any shavings in the oil or filter?
i think you know your answer though, that man with the hammer is have fun on the crank and rod!

[Finnon]

ill hav to drop th oil as and when i can. i picked up a new filter so i can whip the old one off and check it before droping the oil. seems silly to have to put fresh oil in if the engine is toast only to have to drain it again. off hand does anyone know if oil filters in general have the same type of thread? i have a filter here i was gonna use on a ford escort engine. the car has since gone for scrap. its the same diameter etc as the toyota filter just about 4 inches longer

[grimreaper]

ya cut that filter open (tin snips, NO saw) and see what you find,

[suprarx7nut]

ill hav to drop th oil as and when i can. i picked up a new filter so i can whip the old one off and check it before droping the oil. seems silly to have to put fresh oil in if the engine is toast only to have to drain it again. off hand does anyone know if oil filters in general have the same type of thread? i have a filter here i was gonna use on a ford escort engine. the car has since gone for scrap. its the same diameter etc as the toyota filter just about 4 inches longer

Many engines use the same threading for the filter, but I do believe there are a few variations. Just go buy a cheapo. :dunno:

[Finnon]

was just wondering if it was a commonly used thread id use the spare ford filter if i had to start the engine again to move the car.

The car is in parked in my street not on a drive way or anything so would poss have to be moved at some point. also id either have to do any work to the car in the street or in the back alley way

[IJ.]

3/4-16 tpi from memory

[jgcable]

Here is what I think bro.. if you can't afford a $3.00 correct oil filter you are NEVER going to be able to repair that motor regardless of whats wrong with it. I think you should consider cutting your losses and sell it to somebody who has the means and the expertise to repair it correctly. If you half ass it you will have an undependable money pit to fix every week (or day).

[Finnon]

Here is what I think bro.. if you can't afford a $3.00 correct oil filter you are NEVER going to be able to repair that motor regardless of whats wrong with it. I think you should consider cutting your losses and sell it to somebody who has the means and the expertise to repair it correctly. If you half ass it you will have an undependable money pit to fix every week (or day).

my friend, I have owned my supra for 5 years now. done a fair few miles in it and regularly serviced it etc. With toyota filters. I have now been burdened with another supra to either see if i can sort the engine or consider removing the engine from my car.

The supra ive owned for the past 5 years has most likely come to the end of its life. its a 1987 car and being based in the uk with salted roads during winter etc has started to corode along the sills etc.

ive probably kept my car away from a scrap yard due to me fixing(amongst other things) the brakes which had been continually left untouched. there was from memory 6 error codes in there.

ohh and not sure on the exchange rate just now. but in the uk for a toyota filter it is £10 now i dont fancy paying £10 for nothing. that is pretty foolish. i asked as i did have a spare ford filter that is never going to be used. that was a cheap one £5 ish

and after 5 years yep i certainly know what you mean about how much time and money these cars can take up.

[Finnon]

3/4-16 tpi from memory

thanks dude

[jgcable]

my friend, I have owned my supra for 5 years now. done a fair few miles in it and regularly serviced it etc. With toyota filters. I have now been burdened with another supra to either see if i can sort the engine or consider removing the engine from my car.

The supra ive owned for the past 5 years has most likely come to the end of its life. its a 1987 car and being based in the uk with salted roads during winter etc has started to corode along the sills etc.

ive probably kept my car away from a scrap yard due to me fixing(amongst other things) the brakes which had been continually left untouched. there was from memory 6 error codes in there.

ohh and not sure on the exchange rate just now. but in the uk for a toyota filter it is £10 now i dont fancy paying £10 for nothing. that is pretty foolish. i asked as i did have a spare ford filter that is never going to be used. that was a cheap one £5 ish

and after 5 years yep i certainly know what you mean about how much time and money these cars can take up.

I meant no disrespect but the red flag went off in my head when you mentioned that you wanted to put a ford oil filter on I because you had one.
There are alot of kids around my neck of the woods who 1/2 ass everything. I know one kid who used a 2 x 4 piece of wood to shim up his driveshaft in an 800hp turbo high wing Supra. He has already blown 3 motors in it in the past year.

[Finnon]

I meant no disrespect but the red flag went off in my head when you mentioned that you wanted to put a ford oil filter on I because you had one.
There are alot of kids around my neck of the woods who 1/2 ass everything. I know one kid who used a 2 x 4 piece of wood to shim up his driveshaft in an 800hp turbo high wing Supra. He has already blown 3 motors in it in the past year.

haha no bother dude, i only mentioned the ford filter as its sat for ages now in my lock up. the ford has now been scrapped and its the same diameter as the toyota filter and looked to be same thread. and since the engine is likely knackered if it would fit then id be ok with it. (im gonna as a last resort remove the old filter and cut it up to check its contents. )

im having to try and find some one that has a garage i can rent to store the donor car in. this is proving quite difficult just now. complete nightmare. dont think my neighbours would be too impressed if i was to start pulling engines out of 2 cars in the front street (i live in a terraced street, kinda all houses joined together if you dont know what i mean)

and wood, drive shaft. lol there are some nut cases in this world.

[Muzy]

I'd lean towards the dissy, but it sounds to fast. And the way it kinda flutters up and
down.... The sheilds around the timming belt are plastic, can't see it being very loose
timming belt. Are your sheids around the exaust tight? Muzy

[Finnon]

yeah i think so, i guess i could pull the dizzy off and see if theres anything inside. I still need to check the oil filter aswell but now its dark when i return home from work so i guess it will be the weekend before i can have a look at it