Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66

[92nsx]

Well Sean (funkey_monkey) and stayed up tell 3:30 AM and was able to finally able to started it up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow this thing has some oil pressure. This 7m sounds mean!!!!! The gauge oil pressure wasent working so we pulled a cam cover to check every thing out and yep lots of fresh oil coming out. But just to make sure we pulled a oil cooler line on start up to double check, and it shot oil out of the hose like water coming out of a garden hose.!.!.!.

A couple questions, First dose anyone have 272 cams and a ffim? I ask because I have 0, thats right no vacuum pressure. Gauge is working, When we pull the line off of the intake manifold there in super little vac. Like 2-5 inHg.
Also we were able to build 5-6 lbs. of boost wile sitting in the garage just reving the engine!!!!!!! I have never seen any turbo car build boost while not driving!!!!!!!!!

Fuel pressure gauge is reading around 55 psi with this no vac. going on.

Dose this have to do with the 272 cams????? FFIM?????? Is the custom made 4" TB I got from tubbie some how fubared up????????

Also My gauge cluster is dead, the lights turn on but nothing else works, No tach, oil, boost, water temp. I just pulled the glove box and all body plugs anr together and tight. Also pulled gauge cluster and all harnesses are pluged in there also. What gives?

Any ideas what to try next. Also there is a massive oil leak on the from of the engine, looks like the from main seal behind the lower timing cover.:( looks like my engine builder is going to get a phone call :cry::cry::aigo::aigo:. Well over 5 g's for this rebuild, it better not drip a single drop of oil untell there is 70k miles on the engine.




Vid. of cams to double check oil
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_0720080211-00.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=0720080211-00.flv)

video of first start up.
[URL=http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=0720080216-00-1.flv][IMG]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_0720080216-00-1.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=0720080216-00.flv)

And another trying to get it to idle.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_0720080217-00.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=0720080217-00.flv)

[92nsx]

Attached a pic of stock tb vs. 4" custom that is on the ffim.

[92nsx]

Here is a better vid of idle on the pro sport boost gauge. Or what is trying to idel. LOL
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_S5002295.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002295.flv)

[ilikebigbutts]

seems like ignition timing might be way off, it happened to me last week when i started my rebuilt engine.It was 180 off and i had 0 vacuum.set the cps as per tsrm

[92nsx]

It was off quite a bit during first start up. I just got it set to 10-12 degrees with the neighbor. I used the pic. from the forum here to set cps in the right spot. But never the less It could be be 180 off. did your engine start and some what idle when you were 180 off? Also I can just pull out "spin" the cps 180 right.

Also I did not/ or do not have any code that I know of. The ABS light is on But this shouldnt affect the idle. I do not remember if abs light was on when I first bought the car or not its been almost a year.

[92nsx]

any one??????????

[IJ.]

280 cams and a ffim idles around 19 in/mg

[ilikebigbutts]

cold my engine would start and run extremely rich-or i gues it was burning the mixture...It would also choke when i gave it gas...it deffinatly idled much better than ur vid though...You need to make sure you set the crank tdc COMPRESSION stroke in order to set the timing correctly.

[Zumtizzle]

Are the cams degreed?

Okay Sounds like you're 180 off? Did you set the CPS to the mark?

Check Gauge Fuse?

Pull Cluster?

[funky_monkey58]

Well man I was sure glad to hear that beast fire up. I am stuck on the aem install right now until I can talk to someone mi=ore knowledgeable than myself.


-Sean

[92nsx]

Cams WERE degreed in according to cam card. Since then I have set the gears back to "0" and I have around 6-8 inHg of vac now, not much better. CPS is set according to the pic floating around here on the fourm that sheaff posted and others(same pic).... I could 180 the cps but then everything "would be 180 off" from what every one else set theres at. The round part of the CPS is closest to the flat part of the frame on the CPS. This is not my first swap, I have swaped in and out more then 10 7mgte's in my life. Unless setting crank pully to "0"(TDC), cam gears lined up with there TDC mark, and the cps set to shaeff pic is WRONG, this will be news to me.

Sorry, I am a little crankey b/c this poopra is kicking my ass. The timing is not perfect yet timing light is showing it around 15 degrees or so. plus with this main seal leaking like like it is I dont want to run engine more then 1 min. without checking oil level.

Also with every gauge dead and all body plugs behind ecu, gauge cluser harnesses and fused checked I have no idea where anything is at except for my oil temp, boost and fuel pressure, pro sport gauges ;)

Any one have a JDM ECU I can buy of try out? no egr stuff, never had a problem before with not having it on, but again this is my first Cali. supra :(

[IJ.]

Checked for vacc leaks yet Rob?

[92nsx]

yep, Sean and myself check but I am looking for some carb cleaner now to spray around every fitting to see if the idel jumps up.

[IJ.]

Was the flange on the FFIM surfaced after welding?

[92nsx]

Ok, development!!! I found some starting fluid (ether) Sprayed every vac. port and TB.............nothing happened. Sprayed some by the fuel injectors/lower intake manifold and it did rev. up not much but it did rev up. So I think there is a leak between the manifold and the head. I will "try" (bolts suck ass to get to with ffim) and tighten manifold some more.

There is no gas leaking anywhere. So I am guessing that the ether is not entering the engine via injector, orings/gaskets things, right? only the manifold?

[92nsx]

Was the flange on the FFIM surfaced after welding?


I don't know this FFIM I bought from Tubbie, :3d_frown: I would need him to ask the guy that built them for me.

[IJ.]

My guess is a warped flange Rob.

[92nsx]

well.... I checked the intake bolts and found a couple that were loose. (must have been the late night oil we were burning) But the vac. isnt any better still less then 10 inHg. I haven't tryed any more ether yet. Running out of oil. Jim better have an answer for this.

I have been trying to figure why none of my gauges work. Plus it's bed time for me my brain hurts!!!! It seems like there isnt any power. Any one know what wire is for powering the gauges? (not the lights)

Also I noticed when I jumpered E1 and TE1 to set timing the check engine light did not blink fast. I swaped bulbs with one from the door open (that I can see working) and still nothing. So it is not the bulb. Is this part of what I am guessing "not getting power to cluster"

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=D&P=8

This is the best I can find but dont know everything. Looks like yellow wire on plug A, #10 on the back of the cluster? not sure thou what plug that is, if that is right at all.

Good night all i will check back tomarrow. Keep the ideas flowing. And thank you all again for the help. I couldn't do this with out you guys.

[hottscennessey]

re-shim the valves after you installed the cams?

I had a faulty micrometer give me readings of my shims being too thin causing my valves to hang open at 0 lift and give me no compression (0 vac).

[92nsx]

re-shim the valves after you installed the cams?

I had a faulty micrometer give me readings of my shims being too thin causing my valves to hang open at 0 lift and give me no compression (0 vac).

I did not personally do the work, Jim Hall did all my engine/ head work. I would hope he did eveything correct, but I am starting to second guess his work now :( no vac. and a major oil leak. He has also been MIA, several calls & emails with no responce. :icon_evil:icon_evil:icon_evil

[hottscennessey]

since the valve covers are off it should be really easy to spec out the shims per TSRM with a feeler gauge

[92nsx]

They are easley removable at least now with ffim. I will search TRSM for specs. But never the less I want to wate for Jim to ok everything/ look it over before I start doing things my self.
Jim just got back to me and said he will call me this afternoon, about the oil leak and vacuum or lack of it.

here is a video of the oil leak
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_S5002296.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002296.flv)


Any ideas on why all the gauges are dead, what sucks because it also controlls the check engine light so I can not check any codes. The fuse was good, but still installed a new one. There is 12.4 volts on the one side of the fuse holder, and the m1 plug is together with good concetion (behind ECU). What wire is power for the cluster, Yellow wire on blue plug on the back of the cluster? I did a continuity test from fuse to cluster and found that yellow wire listed above. is that correct? Did not check voltage because battery was disconnected for trouble shooting.

[CyFi6]

You connected the timing light to cylinder number 6 correct? And not cylinder number 1.

[hottscennessey]

They are easley removable at least now with ffim. I will search TRSM for specs. But never the less I want to wate for Jim to ok everything/ look it over before I start doing things my self.


Specing it out will only help to answer your question of why you're pulling little to no vac. It will not change anything (I wish it were that simple).

All you need is a feeler gauge and to follow the steps in the TSRM (starts on this page)

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=8

[92nsx]

You connected the timing light to cylinder number 6 correct? And not cylinder number 1.


First I had it on #6 first with Sean over, then went to #1, It is kind of hard to time engine when I only allow it to run for super short times. Plus dosen't #1 and 6 fire at the same time? Any way it was giving me the same indications using #1 and or #6. But Keep going 1 to many teeth on the cps.:3d_frown: 20° BTDC then remove & adjust CPS and then 5° BTDC. Back and forth, back and forth. One of these time I will get it in the sweet spot :)


Specing it out will only help to answer your question of why you're pulling little to no vac. It will not change anything (I wish it were that simple).

All you need is a feeler gauge and to follow the steps in the TSRM (starts on this page)

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=8

Yep, found that page, I will give it the feeler gauge test. Plus this way I can check and see how good Jim's work is I guess. Thank you


I also found the TPS checking and setting in TRSM, so I will also check that out. Any one know about the gauges. Kind of curious about oil pressure, and seeing rpms.

[92nsx]

Well I dont know I if it is a update but here we go.

I talked with Jim last night and he is also puzzled and kind of mad that it is leaking oil. So now he wants me to remove the lower timing cover, rip off the A/C (pain in the ASS) and everything else on the front of the engine, this way I can get a better look at it. Then I have to call him back with what I see and we will go from there.

Jim also said with my intake manifold and cams I might have to set my idel at 1000 - 1100 rps to have get a nice vac. pull. But never the less something is still not right. But he said lets work on the oil thing first, its the most important.

EDIT: Also after several hrs. of searching and asking Q's I think the flange on the FFIM was not machined after the welding and is a source of my super low Vac. Tubbie could not confirm if it was or not machined.
I guess rip everything back apart :( and start all over. Man the wire harness is a pain in the ass to install with a one piece FFIM. The sensors on the bottom side of it suck ass to get to

[92nsx]

Well talking with Jim I looked into the leak a little more found it is coming from the seal on the intake cam.
Still have no vac. :(
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_supraoilleak.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=supraoilleak.flv)

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002315.jpg

[IJ.]

Spray the aerostart or whatever you're using up under the intake and see if it picks up.

Only other thing I can think of that would cause low vacc is Cam timing but you said you degreed them?

Mine idles at 850.

[92nsx]

I will re-spray ether (starting fluid) on the intake and see what happens. I think the flang on the FFIM is still bad :( I have been trying to pin point the oil leak (witch I found, intake cam seal) and getting the gauge cluster to work, or some what work the last couple days so i have a idea what the rpms are. Today after work it is all for trying to pin point this problem.
Yes the cams WERE degreed in according to the cam card that came with the 272. 5 degrees ATDC on exhaust and 3 degrees BTDC on intake (I think, I dont remember) but since I had such shitty vacuum I put them back to 0, for trouble shooting reasions :cry: Now I will have to re-do it again.:3d_frown:

[Doward]

Suggestion:

1) Take off the intake, and verify ALL surface flatness with a machinist's straight edge. You don't want to fight a leaking intake.

2) Do you have adjustable cam gears? Open up the LSA a bit - that'll smooth your idle. Ian, what is your current LSA with the 19" of vacuum?

[hottscennessey]

spec those shims yet? ;)

[IJ.]

Suggestion:

1) Take off the intake, and verify ALL surface flatness with a machinist's straight edge. You don't want to fight a leaking intake.

2) Do you have adjustable cam gears? Open up the LSA a bit - that'll smooth your idle. Ian, what is your current LSA with the 19" of vacuum?

109 degrees

[92nsx]

Suggestion:

1) Take off the intake, and verify ALL surface flatness with a machinist's straight edge. You don't want to fight a leaking intake.

2) Do you have adjustable cam gears? Open up the LSA a bit - that'll smooth your idle. Ian, what is your current LSA with the 19" of vacuum?

1) I know the the head is straight, I ask my engine builder about that he machined it flat after the port and polish.
As for the intake manifold I don't not believe so. I spray starter fluid around where it meets the head and the engine revs up ever so little. So next I have to remove it and bring it in :( I am thinking a source of a major leak!!! GOD DAM IT... It is a pain in the ass since it is a one piece FFIM. For those who have one know what I am taliking about

2) yes, AEM gears. The cams WERE degreed in also for the first start up. Then I had no vac. (less then 4 inHg. ) so I returned them to 0 for trouble shooting.
What is LSA? I am guessing IJ already knows 109 degrees? I have yet to see 19 inHg. Now with cams at 0 I have around 6-8 inHg. What you see is the pro sport gauge perform a dramatic opening ceremony with a full pointer sweep and self check each time the vehicle is started. First 30 sec. of vid is usless but I cant edit the movie :(

Here is the cam card for my 272's
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002324.jpg


spec those shims yet? ;)

No, not yet. I asked Jim about that also and he said that he did, and they should be ready to go. But I still plan on checking for my self.

EDIT: I just checked the clearance on the cams to the shim. The intake side cams are at .008" across the board. .008" fits nice, and .008 +.001 dose not fit at all. TSRM calls out between .006" and .010" So I think the intake is good right.

The exhaust is .013" on all except #5. 5 is at .014" TRSM calls out .008" - .012" Maybe could use another thou or two accross the board, but never the less I think they should be just fine right? They are all closing.

Jim also recommended that I not run the engine tell the oil leak is fixed. If it is leaking from the intake cam seal that means there is some oil going to them but not ALL of it. The leak is pretty bad. Better to be safe then sorry.


Should I wate for Jim to replace the intake cam seal that is leaking, or should I do it my self? I just think he is going to take for ever to do it. It took 9 months to rebuild my engine and head!!!!!! But at the same time I don't want to fubar it up if you know what I mean.

Thank you all again for the on going support and help.

[Zazzn]

I have a feeling the engine was degreed wrong, for you to get no vac like that you must have massive overlap...

[92nsx]

Well I just found out why there was oil leaking/spraying out behind the cam gear. MY ENGINE BUILDER, JIM HALL FORGOT TO INSTALL THE CAM SEALS ON THE HEAD!!!!!!!!!:3d_frown::3d_frown: WTF, WAS HE SMOKING :nono::nono: I know every one

Well I picked up 2 here quick and I will install them and see if it goes away

Here are the pics. (you all know I love pics. and sharing them ;)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002325.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002326.jpg

Ok, Im going back into the garage to finish up what Jim forgot.

[IJ.]

Not the first time we've seen this Rob :(

[TRACKMKIII]

Wow that is not good! If he forgot that I would be checking everything else as well, that is just simple stuff.

[92nsx]

Well, I got them installed(cam seals), and what would you know, no more oil leak :) yippie skippy. I still have no idle, no vac. and some times when idleing (or should I call it "surging" between 600-1500 rpms) it revs up to 4k and sits there!!! I am about to give up on this car.:( I am going to check for leaks again around the intake manifold, try my other tps, and block off my IAC tomarrow. It's getting late tonight, and I dont want to wake up the neighbors. I don't know if it is the cams and stock ecu, old gas, FFIM just sucks, TB is no good, or what.

To remove some valve overlap(to see if it helps out my idle), should I retard the intake cam gear and advance the exhaust gear? Or do I have that backwards?

Also I still don't have a "working" gauge cluster(wrong year cluster) so there is not way for me to check for codes :(

[figgie]

92nsx

that turbo spooling like without load is indicative of super retarded timing. The 7m never had flowing heads that would spin a turbo as is indicative of post #4.

That leaves,

When you remeoved the cam gears to install the oil seals, where the cam pins in the MIDDLE hole?

Cam gears set to zero?

Quadruple check the ignition wiring (1&6, 2&5, 3&4).

And here is one more... The CPS. Check the wiring harness to the cps CAREFULLY. I am seeing alot more wires that are bare and causing shorting to ground issues. Usually takes a pair of the cylinders out depending on which (Ne1 or Ne2) side is shorting to ground and this will cause the cylinder to still inject but no ignition, makes it into an Anti-lag setup.

oil leak

the oil seal is one. Keep a close eye on where toyota asks for FIPG on the valve covers.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=56

step b.

otherwise it will leak there (no where near as much as the oil seal being GONE though!).

[92nsx]

figgie - since I put the cam gears back to "0" and adjusted the timing (still around 17-19) :( I stoped building boost.

Cam pins were/are in the middle hole of the cams (see pic. above).
After installing the seals I doubled checked that all 3 timing marks line up and they were still good.
CPS wiring, I will check again. When I bought the car it (CPS wiring) was "hacked together". So I spliced in a factory harness( soldered wires, heat shrink each wire, then wraped them in electrical tape) and bought a new CPS.

As for where the FIPG is applied on the cam covers, I have not put any there yet, because after a few heat cycles, I am going to check the torque on the head studs. Then will put some FIPG in the corners. But never the less the oil stoped leaking now.

Will check spark plug wires again, but with the short wires on 1,2,3 i know it is hard to mix them up.

I will do some more trouble shooting today and update this thread.

[92nsx]

Here is a quick pic. of the engine bay. This is the first pic. I posted of this engine :).
Maybe some one will see something in it and have a light bulb turn on for me to check;)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002321.jpg

[jdub]

You really do need a fan shroud you know ;)

[92nsx]

You really do need a fan shroud you know ;)

I have one...sort of, it is all crack up. But a fan shroud wasent needed for start up ;) But yes before I start driving around there will be one on there. Hell my battery isn't even bolted down :aigo:. It is just sitting loose in the spair tire area.

Also since I have the EGR temp sensor "tricked" (10k ohm resistor) will this affect anything on the idle?

[jdub]

The EGR is inop at idle on a stock set-up anyway...it should not have an effect. However, the EGR suppresses detonation above idle to ~4000 RPM...the USDM ECU fuel/timing maps are "tuned" with the EGR in place. Be aware that high engine load (with the EGR removed) in the above RPM range can cause detonation as a result. A good solution is to source a JDM ECU...it does not have the EGR provision and you will no longer need to "trick" the sensor.

[92nsx]

^^^^ thank you. At this time I am just trying to get the engine running/idleing right. This fall or after the engine in borken' in this car will be large turbo (hint the engine and head build) and AEM EMS. I have not installed eather or yet because I want to make sure when I do it is not the turbo or the AEM causing idle problems. Good thing now because if I would have installed both already I would pount my finger and one of those for the problem i am having. If that makes since to you.

To here are a couple more test I have done.

Swaped TPS, there was no differance in the idle

I blocked of the mini air filter I have on the IAC (so no air can come in through the IAC) with saran wrap and the engine idle was fine!!!!!!! SO I feel the IAC must be fubared up in some sort of way. When I unplug the TPS I can hear the motor turning on the IAC. Now that is weard, dosent that mean it is working? Should I souce a new IAC? But the throttle responce was super slow and kind of "hung" around 2k rpms for a sec.

After re-tightening the intake manifold bolts I sprayed starting fluid where the flange meets the head and the idle speeds up. So I guess it is time to remove the FFIM and get the flange checked out. :(

[jdub]

Blocking off the ISC confirms a leak somewhere on the FFIM (assuming the TB plate is fully closed)...I'm thinking your ISCV is fine. Based on what you did with the starter fluid, it looks like your FFIM flange is not straight/flat and is the source of the pirate air. BTW - using a mini filter on the ISCV is not a good idea...you are allowing unmetered air into the system. It needs to be hooked up to the accordion hose like stock if you are using the stock ECU.

Other things to check:
- Brake booster line...the check valve above the booster may be bad
- Other vac lines attached to the FFIM

What is the plan for the PCV?

[figgie]

also

17-19 degree timing?

Is that with E1 and Te1 shorted out? If so that is super super advanced! Remember the timing check is done with the Diagnostic pins shorting out.

Also jdub stated.

The IAC is routed using the post accordian hose air, as jdub stated, what you have is a unmetered air leak which will cause you being lean and probably not hold an idle worth a damn.

What other non-stock bits do you have (any other mini airfilters anywhere?). And I mean ANYTHING that is non-stock.

[92nsx]

That is the only mini filter on the engine. I thought it would be like using a lexus afm with the mini but I guessed wrong. I will some how route it into the intake hose. I will re plan that for this brake in peiod, but once AEM EMS can I use it since there is no AFM?

Brake booster and all other vac. lines passed the starting fluid test. Just not the intake flange:(

Timing is with and with out the paper clip installed on TE1 and E1. It made no differance. I have no idea why, maybe because it is that much out of wack, no gauge cluster, to much oxide inhibitor greese, I don't know. As for the timing when I place the CPS back one tooth the best I can get is 6 degrees!! I move it one tooth forward, the best is around 17 (scale on lower timing cover dosent go that far) and the engine sounds like SHIT when at 6 degrees so I left it at the 17 or so range, for now.

Plan for the PCV is to use a catch can, I just haven't installed it yet because of the idle problems.

I just got done removing the the FFIM to check the flange and holy mother of god!, I am able to place a .025" shim under the straight edge in 3 differnt places!!!!!!!! Time to make a trip to a machine, shop. My mill can not hold a intake manifold :(

This is what I am thinking
Idle problem>>> IAC using unmetered air,
Low Vac.>>>>> Intake manifold flange not straight.
Sound right?

As for the timing I have no flippen Idea why I can not get it set. Maybe when I get the manifold straightened, and everything reinstalled I will have someone else come to set it since I am not capable of setting it.:3d_frown:
:1zhelp:Any one want to make a trip to Clearwater, MN??? I have lots of beer, and some cash if you can get my timing right;)

Thank you again for all the Ideas and helping out trouble shoot this 7m.
- Rob

[jdub]

but once AEM EMS can I use it since there is no AFM?

True statement...you can use a filter on the ISCV once you are running speed density on the AEM.


Plan for the PCV is to use a catch can, I just haven't installed it yet because of the idle problems.

You will need a vac source to make the catch can work. Vac from the FFIM, you will need a check valve to prevent a boost leak. Might want to think about having an AN-8 bung welded on the FFIM (while it's out) just aft of the TB.


This is what I am thinking
Idle problem>>> IAC using unmetered air,
Low Vac.>>>>> Intake manifold flange not straight.
Sound right?

Yep! Compounding each other actually.

Concerning the timing issue...these are BC 272 cams?

[jetjock]

Also I still don't have a "working" gauge cluster(wrong year cluster) so there is not way for me to check for codes

Say what? You can check for codes without a cluster. Check Vf to see if one is set and if so measure W on the ECU referenced to 12 volts. Doing either of those things will also tell you if you've got a good connection across T and E. That'll hopefully lead to timing it correctly.

[IJ.]

No real surprise on the flange Rob...

[92nsx]

Concerning the timing issue...these are BC 272 cams?

Yes these are BC 272, I am guessing there will be a noticeable loop at idle.:evil2: As for the timing It will be a learning curve with these cams Im guessing.


You will need a vac source to make the catch can work. Vac from the FFIM, you will need a check valve to prevent a boost leak. Might want to think about having an AN-8 bung welded on the FFIM (while it's out) just aft of the TB.

Um......Now I am double guessing my self? What do you recommend I should use or do? Port it back to intake filter intake? Never the less I will need to add a vacuum port to the FFIM right? If so add AN-8 bung to it. Man I wish people would build these (speaking of Tubbie) FFIM's right the first time.


Say what? You can check for codes without a cluster. Check Vf to see if one is set and if so measure W on the ECU referenced to 12 volts. Doing either of those things will also tell you if you've got a good connection across T and E. That'll hopefully lead to timing it correctly.

I will have to research this some more, I am guessing it is outlined in the TRSM? I will also do some searching here on SM.

[jetjock]

When T and E are jumped and the engine is at idle (IDL contact in TPS closed) Vf will be 5 volts if no codes are present and 0 volts if at least one code is set. If you find zero volts nothing says you can't connect a small light bulb across terminal W at the ECU and 12 volts to check codes. Or do it at the cluster connector.

You can also skip the bulb and read codes by counting jumps on the meter, which is how it used to be done on earlier Toyota vehicles that didn't have an MIL and where W was brought out to the diag block. Better yet just skip the Vf thing and go directly to looking at W with the block jumpered.

[jdub]

Rob - BC cams seem to have a problem with the phasing of the helical gear on the exhaust cam. Might want to look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763

Concerning the PCV...it's a pretty simple system. My advice would be to set it up like stock with a line to the accordion hose and a line to the TB (or fitting aft of the TB). The difference is you will need a check valve to stop boost from pressurizing the crankcase through the valve covers. welding a fitting on the FFIM will be relatively easy with it out.

Do you have a vac line provision on this FFIM for the FPR and the BOV?

[figgie]

As for the timing when I place the CPS back one tooth the best I can get is 6 degrees!! I move it one tooth forward, the best is around 17 (scale on lower timing cover dosent go that far) and the engine sounds like SHIT when at 6 degrees so I left it at the 17 or so range, for now.

Thank you again for all the Ideas and helping out trouble shoot this 7m.
- Rob


Rob,

I hope you know that the CPS is ADJUSTABLE to a certain degree like the distributors of old. The bolt that you remove the CPS is also the adjustment arm.

The way you worded this statement........... :)

[92nsx]

Rob,

I hope you know that the CPS is ADJUSTABLE to a certain degree like the distributors of old. The bolt that you remove the CPS is also the adjustment arm.

The way you worded this statement........... :)

Yes, I know that LOL. Sorry my wording in my reply was, lets say "funny". To many things going through my mind at that time. Those timing #'s are the BEST or CLOSEST I can get to the base line of 10 degrees with moving the CPS to its max point. :aigo:.


Concerning the PCV...it's a pretty simple system. My advice would be to set it up like stock with a line to the accordion hose and a line to the TB (or fitting aft of the TB). The difference is you will need a check valve to stop boost from pressurizing the crankcase through the valve covers. welding a fitting on the FFIM will be relatively easy with it out.

Do you have a vac line provision on this FFIM for the FPR and the BOV?

I will read into the BC cam link. Thank you for that! It is now proven that my searching skills SUCK!!!!! This is the first time I have seen this thread, and I have search the crap out of BC cams here.

Dose the stock TB have a check valve? If so is it built into it? I have never seen it if it dose have one.

I have 4 total vacuum ports on this FFIM, 1 on back for brake booster, and 3 up front for everything else. One for steering valve, one (3/8") for vacuum block (for the bov, CC, heater, boost sensor, ect.) and one that is pluged at the current time for a MAP sensor for when I go MAP based


When T and E are jumped and the engine is at idle (IDL contact in TPS closed) Vf will be 5 volts if no codes are present and 0 volts if at least one code is set. If you find zero volts nothing says you can't connect a small light bulb across terminal W at the ECU and 12 volts to check codes. Or do it at the cluster connector.

You can also skip the bulb and read codes by counting jumps on the meter, which is how it used to be done on earlier Toyota vehicles that didn't have an MIL and where W was brought out to the diag block. Better yet just skip the Vf thing and go directly to looking at W with the block jumpered.

When I get my intake back I will trace out the W terminal and use a bulb, that dosent sound to bad. Thank you, that is a great idea!

[IJ.]

No check valve just a restriction.

[92nsx]

Rob - BC cams seem to have a problem with the phasing of the helical gear on the exhaust cam. Might want to look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763


That is the exact problem I am having with the timing!!!!!!!! I just never searched the "ge" section. Only general and GTE. I think with a little cam gear tweaking I might be able to get the timing down. That is after I get my manifold back :(

[racerpage]

Make sure you are getting true top dead center on your intake cam. Lobe should be straight up. You can't always go by factory cam tdc with aftermarket cams. Really should use a degree wheel before dropping the motor in.

[92nsx]

Every one is telling me to source a JDM ECU. Well I might have found one, dose any one know the part #'s of a JDM ECU? Or know how to tell if it is JDM and not a US spec.?
I know I should trust what every one says. But now days sellers will tell you anything just so you buy stuff from them, so they can make some money.:(

How do we know there "is" a different ECU? 21 years later we still can't crack the 16 bit code on this ECU.

One last thing, I got the flange machined on my FFIM ;). Only $41, I will try and get everything back together tonight or this weekend.

[IJ.]

If you get one from an Aussie delivered MA70 it's the same as the JDM ones as we don't have EGR here.

[figgie]

can't crack the 16 bit code on this ECU.

8 bit actually and that is because no one has REALLY tried.

but no worries. 3p and Brutus (http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73379) are rev-eng the CPU and they already have some good info on it.

[Kristian_Wraae]

I'd like to this myth verified or rejected.

If someone with logging capabilities got hold of a JDM ecu it would be possible to see how the two ECUs handle the timing.

As I stated before the older pre 89 supras in europe (at least according to my information) have the same ECU regardless if the came with EGR or not.

There is definitely a difference in the feel of the car with and without EGR but if the ECU from an EGR equiped car advances the timing more than the CU from a can without EGR is still open for debate. Clearly the ECU will retard timing based on detection of engine knock but whether the JDM ECU has an inherited more retarded timing compared to the USDM is the question.

[92nsx]

Ok well I got everything put pack together last night, and you guys hit the nail right on the head with the flange on the FFIM. I now am pulling 15-17 inHg of vacuum. :)
I retimed the cams and timing is on.
Today I have to do a little more trouble shooting. I have that stupid idle problem when it is fluctuating (sp?). Again I have no tach but it idles and around 700 then jumps up to 1500 then back down to 700 then right back up to 1500. It dose this back and forth. I will check the TPS and IAC again. Any other ideas what makes it do that?

[Quin]

Decent sized vacuum leak. Close off your IAC and block your PCV and see if the car keeps running. If it doesn't die, make sure your throttle plate is closing all the way. After that you have to hunt for it on your own.

[92nsx]

Well I can not find any vac. leaks. I have also sprayed starting fluid every where to find leaks and nothing(starting fluid makes a good cleaner lol). I have blocked off the hose to my IAC and nothing changes. I swaped out TPS and..........nothing still the same. Here is another Vid. and other ideas.?.?.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_S5002345.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002345.flv)

Yes i "hot wired" the tach and oil pressure gauges in the cluster, so I had some readings.

[jetjock]

I'd like to this myth verified or rejected.


8 bit actually and that is because no one has REALLY tried.

Lol. It's posts like these that keep me here :)

[92nsx]

:1zhelp:Since it dose idle for about 5 sec. after I play with the thorttle, the goes back to the reving thing, can any one tell m if I am looking for a vacuum leak, or is it mechanical / sensor problem? With me bloking off the IAC the engine should die right, (yes TB plate closed)? Since it it dosent still a vacuum leak somewhere?:1zhelp:

[Jaguar_5]

Have you checked those codes yet?

It doesn't sound like you have, and that could really give you some direction

[Mk3runner]

thats funny shit I got Disturbed in my supra too, forgot the cd was in there when I wired it in.

best of luck on the idle and wiring issues.

[92nsx]

Ok when I jumper T and E in the diagnosis block, like when you are going to check for codes, the engine idles at 1500 and stays there. No jumping around, just a solid idle at 1500. When I unplug it it goes back to the up and down idle. What is this telling me? Is it just because the engine is cold?
Do I have a code? As jetjock said to check for codes at W. I have no idea what "W" is.

Still looking for a 89 cluster.

EDIT: I found W on the ECU, I will upload the vid of code/s

[jetjock]

Whenever T and E1 are jumped the ECU does several things, one of which is to set idle rpm in preparation for ignition timing. That's for a hot engine though. Since that that value isn't 1500 there's something wrong. I suspect timing is off.

W is the ECU terminal that supplies ground to the MIL:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=29

Connect a meter or bulb/led between it and +12 to read codes....

[92nsx]

Timing - Using my Craftsman timing light model # 161.213400 and diagnosis block jumpered (idle at 1500 then) the timing is right on the money, if anything the timing is at 9.75 degrees. I will also upload a video of that after this, if needed.
I still dont have a water temp gauge (as we talked about the cluster already) but the oil temp is at 140 degrees. Warm engine? cool engine? vary limited engine run time like 3-4 min.

Well here is the vid. of using "W" to check for codes. My fluke 77 meter was all over the place. Sorry I cant read this code can you?
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_S5002367.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002367.flv)

Dose this explain the idle problem going up and down?

BTW Jetjock, I like your new Sig. That thread was vary entertaining. I wanted to reach through my laptop and strangle a few people like Homer Simpson (not the member here)would to Bart.

[92nsx]

I am think it looks like code 41 and 52 correct?

41 = TPS. Bad? Needs adjustment, and this is after it checks out and set correct to TRSM with the shims between the idle set screw? IDEAS!!!!!

Is this my idle prob?

52 = knock. umm... I did add extra ground wire to the sensor harness, (sogi) and have it grounded the the FFIM. One or both knock sensors go bad wile sitting in a box for 9 months?

This sucks I had no codes before I had the engine rebuilt

[jetjock]

Looks like a 52 and 41. The trick is to use the bargraph. I'd clear them and try again in case they're old. If they come back fix the 41 (TPS) first. In fact you may want to unplug the TPS and see if things improve. Timing is dead on at 1500 rpm? Hmmm. I don't think it should be but I'd have to check.

Re sig: Yeah, wtf is up with that guy? I dunno what makes him more of a moron, that he's an outright thief or that he'd brag about it. Another example of this "community" at it's finest...

[92nsx]

After restting ecu I still have code 41. I like the big bird video:biglaugh: Bar graph FTW, But now the idle is doing the up and down thing, all the time, dosent matter if it is jumpered or not. WTF.

I unpluged the TPS sensor and the idle shoot up to 2500 and stayed there with a constant 14.74 volts( not blinking on the fluke, no codes, or constant light) I quicked graped the timing gun and shit the timing was at like 40 or something, way over by the power steering belt, with the TPS unpluged. I pluged it back in and code 41 came back on the fluke and the idle started the up and down thing, with timing back to normal or what ever this timing is.:aigo:

[Jaguar_5]

You need to check and calibrate your TPS

I was going to suggest that but didn't want to shoot on the dark before you checked your codes ;)

[92nsx]

Any thing else to check? TPS is good/set using the shims outlined in TRSM and I still have code 41. This problem sucks and is keeping me from driving it:( I am super close to ripping out the FFIM and intercooler set up and buying a OEM intake/ intercooler set up. :(

It there any chance the throttle body can be bad? The TB was a custom made one by tubbie. It is just a 4" piece of pipe with a S.S. plate. I block off the IAC and shit it dosent even affect the engine!! Again if there is a vac./boost leak I can not find any where!!!!. Before scrapping the FFIM would it be worth wile to try and replace the TB with a manufactured one?? If so what do you recommend?

Side note, I drove it 2 miles to the gas station to put some fresh 92 in it and this car is super unsafe to drive. It feels like there is no brakes, super hard to push. I have full boost by 2400 rpms, and there was no (I don't know how to put it) "crusing"' it was eather full throttle feel at a toutch of throttle or nothing. Car was super jurkey. There was no inbetween.

[Facime]

If the TPS is properly adjusted and you still have the code then its likely the problem is in the wiring. You first need to check continuity beween the wires at the TPS plug and the ECU plugs. That will tell you if you have a break in one of the wires. During the rebuild its entirely possible an old wire broke while you were moving the harness around. I had a similiar problem in my mk2 and only found the problem this way. (in my case someone had spliced two wires backwards during the enjine swap)

[92nsx]

^^^ I will check this out next. Any one know about the TB I posted about>?

[Supra_Villan]

not sure if this would matter or not but....is the tps new? what color is the sticker on it? My car originally had a red sticker, but i replaced the tps during the rebuild and it faced a different way than the original did, but the new one had a blue sticker, i have yet to run it, but perhaps the blue one i have is for an n/a, but i am by no means trying to say this is the reason nor do i know, but i was just putting it out there so someone who would know could get something from it. But if it was an n/a one would it matter?

[Jaguar_5]

But if it was an n/a one would it matter?

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different, they look identical, from the front, but on the back, the tabs that are engaged by the butterfly valve in the TB, are 90* off from eachother

[Supra_Villan]

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different, they look identical, from the front, but on the back, the tabs that are engaged by the butterfly valve in the TB, are 90* off from eachother

damn it. i have an n/a one....it made me wonder because of that exact reason, but it fits just fine on my q45....will it mess up anything aside from fitment?

[92nsx]

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different,


Not true!!! 89+ turbo TPS are differn't then 86-88 turbo TPS, witch they are off by 90 degrees. The TPS I have to use for my manifold/TB is from a 86-88 turbo, also from Tubbie. He "forgot" to tell me that when I bought it from him so he suckered another $20 out of me for this TPS. (yes I told him it was going in my 89T) My 89T TPS was off 90 degrees. I can post a pic if some one would like to see them side by side.

Now if it is a N/A or turbo TPS I cant tell you the truth, Again it is from Tubbie and he said this is the sensor needed (witch is 86-88 turbo as he stated).

Side note: I have pluged in my OEM TPS that came with the car and still dose the same thing. The only thing that happens is the idle shoots up to 2600 RPM's and stays there when no TPS is pluged in.

Again when I block of the IAC (with throttle closed all the way) the car dose not die, or anything it just keep on the same old thing. Would this "custom" made TB be the problem, by it not closing all the way or not properly sealing the butterfly valve ?????????????????????

[Jaguar_5]

I have two '87's

One turbo one NA, the throttle position sensors are different

Here's what the EPC says:

Model Part Applications
Part Number Qty Years Model
89452-14050 1 11/1986 - 08/1988 MA70..TWC

(89452-20050) 1 01/1986 - 08/1986 MA70
1 08/1986 - 11/1986 MA70..TWC
1 08/1986 - 08/1988 MA70..TWT


Model Part Applications
Part Number Qty Years Model
89452-14050 1 08/1988 - 03/1989 MA70..TWC
1 03/1989 - 08/1989 MA70
1 08/1989 - 08/1990 MA70
1 08/1990 - 05/1993 MA70
89452-28030
(89452-20050) 1 08/1988 - 03/1989 MA70..TWT

It's rather confusing! TWC = N/A and TWT = Turbo

So it looks like It's best to check the orientation of the tabs on your TB before ordering a TPS!

[Supra_Villan]

as long as it reads open and closed, fits with the tb, and is fine as far as hooking up correctly(which is perfect since clips are identical), then will i be okay? sorry to jack your thread man, but i really need to know and i don't wanna start another thread, i'll give it back, promise:icon_bigg

btw any news as to which ones point which way along with what color the stickers are?

[92nsx]

Jaguar and Homer I will check the part #'s on both when I get home tonight and see what ones I have. Thank you for the part #'s Jaguar.
Homer, looking at the back of the TPS in orientation of the tabs to the screw holes on the TPS it goes like this for the 2 I have. 86-88 turbo the tabs are 90 degrees from the screw holes. On 89+ the tabs are prallel from the screw holes.
I believe

But again I do believe my TCCS is getting the signal, since when I do unplug the TPS my idle shoots up to 2600 rpm's and sits there. When I do pulg eather TPS in the idle goes back to the 1000-2000 thing :( I will do some testing and pic. posting tonight, I just might run home here quick to take some pics, this is also bugging me right now.


EDIT in red

[Jaguar_5]

But again I do believe my TCCS is getting the signal, since when I do unplug the TPS my idle shoots up to 2600 rpm's and sits there.

Have you actually adjust the TPS via the TSRM using a feeler gauge and ohmmeter?

If you can adjust the TPS according to the TSRM, then you have the correct one, if you had the wrong one the tabs wouldn't even engage and the resistance won't change

[92nsx]

Have you actually adjust the TPS via the TSRM using a feeler gauge and ohmmeter?

If you can adjust the TPS according to the TSRM, then you have the correct one, if you had the wrong one the tabs wouldn't even engage and the resistance won't change


Jaguar thank you for the help, read post 78 as for your answer.


Back on topic. Here are the results from reading ohms at the ECU.
My reading at ECU TRSM reading at TPS
VTA-E2---2.1K .2-1.2k
IDL-E2----2.49k (CLOSED) < 2.3k
IDL-E2----INIFINTY (OPEN) Inifinty
VTA-E2---7.49K (FULLY OPEN) 3.2k-10.3k
VC-E2----8.7K 4.25k-8.25k


Readings at TPS with sensor removed
VTA-E2---105
IDL-E2----51 (CLOSED)
IDL-E2----INIFINTY (OPEN)
VTA-E2--- 6.17K (FULLY OPEN)
VC-E2---- 6.87K

So here is what I see from these readings, no broken wires.:) As outlined in TSRM with sensor removed everything check outs OK
86-88 sensor I am using from tubbie I am has part #89452-14050 brown label

(this sensor dose not work with the TB) The 89+sensor I also have from this engine originally has close to the same readings. That TPS has part # 89452-20050 with a blue label

With both sensors I have code 41.

Pics. 89+ is on the LEFT (blue lable)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002369.jpg
Here you can see the 90 degrees differance between the two. Again 89+ is on the left
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002368.jpg





Anyone on board with me thinking this "custom made" TB is no good. And I need to get a 90mm or 100mm TB that wasen't hand made? OR just need to find another TPS from a 86-88 turbo?

[Jaguar_5]

So here is what I see from these readings, no broken wires.:) As outlined in TSRM with sensor removed everything check outs OK

That only means the sensor is ok, not the wiring

If it checks out ok and you're still getting a code 41, I'd say somewhere between the TPS and ECU there's a problem with the wiring

Try to get rid of the code first, then worry about the TB

[Facime]

Testing the TPS is not rocket science. There are two things you want to douple check. Are you throwing a TPS code? If so then either the TPS itself is bad, improperly adjusted, or the signals are not making it back to the ECU. Secondly, if you can actually adjust the TPS by using the proceedure in the TSRM then you have the right TPS and getting another one isnt going to fix the problem.

I sense your frustration but throwing parts at the problem isnt the right way to go about it. Your high and/or bouncing idle is either being caused by an electronic control out of spec (i.e. TPS, ISC etc), or a mechanical problem (air leak, pirate air, poor throttle body design etc.).

check for air leaks with a can of carb cleaner, check for codes, visually inspect the TB to see if it gets good closure, etc. Im betting you have a warped intake flange and have a massive vac leak.

[92nsx]

I ask about the TB because the engine dose not "choke out" or die when I block the ISC. It just keeps on keeping on.

[92nsx]

......I sense your frustration but throwing parts at the problem isnt the right way to go about it. Your high and/or bouncing idle is either being caused by an electronic control out of spec (i.e. TPS, ISC etc), or a mechanical problem (air leak, pirate air, poor throttle body design etc.).

check for air leaks with a can of carb cleaner, check for codes, visually inspect the TB to see if it gets good closure, etc. Im betting you have a warped intake flange and have a massive vac leak.



Thank you for feeling my fustration. Warped flange has been fixed. (it was in one of the posts, Thank you IJ). I am not throwing parts at it. Rather just double checking with parts/sensors I alrady have to double check everything/readings.
TPS code I believe so, I have code 41 with this idle jumping thing. JJ stated it was the TPS.

With a can (ok I am on can 2 now lol) of starting fluid there are no leaks. but it made a good engine degreaser/cleaner. :) Check every vac line, intercooler piping, and FFIM top and bottom.

Let me get a pic. of the poor throttle body design. Or what I think is poor.

EDIT: here is a pic of TB with flash light inside of FFIM with TB closed as far as it can. Lots of light coming through on right sided and spots on of light on left side.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002371.jpg

[Facime]

well that doesnt rule out the possibility your air is coming from a warped manifold or post TB leak of some description. Take the TB off and hold it up to the light. There should be very little light if any cmoing from around the butterfly.




EDIT: oic about the flange. I forgot this thread is the one that IJ pointed that out. I was too lazy to go back and check. Well, disregrad that then, sounds like you have that part covered.

TB issue is certainly a possibilty. I would be consentrating on the elctrical issues first though.

[jdub]

That TB is not going to work ;)

[92nsx]

That TB is not going to work ;)

Is this at least adding or the cause of the problem? Thank you jdub.

Should I source a q45, or one of those blue 100mm TB I see from Bangkok that use a stock TPS?

Here is the Bangkok TB
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/1041_1.jpg


Facime-- did you see the pic after I added it?

[jdub]

A TB needs to seal...it's definitely a contributor.

I've got that TB in the 80mm ID version (Ku-Engineering)...100mm is a bit big ;)
It's a nice TB, kinda pricey though...mine is made to use the '89+ TPS (#20050).

[Facime]

Facime-- did you see the pic after I added it?


Yeah I see it now. That doesnt look good.


Logic tells me whats happening is with the TPS unplugged the ECU is simply metering fuel based on the amount of air being drawn through the slightly cracked open TB. Then when you plug the TPS in the ECU is trying to set idle based on the information that the throttle is supposed to be closed, but cant, so thats where the cycling is taking place.

Having said that though did I read that right that you still have a code 41?

[92nsx]

A TB needs to seal...it's definitely a contributor.

I've got that TB in the 80mm ID version (Ku-Engineering)...100mm is a bit big ;)
It's a nice TB, kinda pricey though...mine is made to use the '89+ TPS (#20050).

$$$ no object at this point of the build, if you get my point. At least not $250. But if a cheaper one will work I will go with that.

I say 100mm because the TB I have mesures in at 4". But as we see it is no good. I am open to options, I just dont want to replace it later because my TB isn't flowing enough air. ;)

Should I use a smaller one? Sorry I am the type of guy where "bigger is better". But I know there are limits. Yet I have no idea where that is on a TB.



Yeah I see it now. That doesnt look good............
Having said that though did I read that right that you still have a code 41?

Yep code 41 according to my fluke. I posted a vid. of it. My cluster is not working so I can not see the light, lol

[jdub]

Are you using 4" IC piping with an IC that has a 4" intlet/outlet? ;)

You might want to think about how the turbo's ability to flow through the IC piping is going to affect critical mach as part of the total system....the TB is the last part of that piping. I'll give you a hint...bigger is not necessarily better.

[92nsx]

IC piping is as follows for now. Yes CT-26 for now, just for start up/brake in and to ensure the engine was built "right".
Hot side is: 2" piping, next a 2 to 2 1/2" coupler to IC. IC has 2 1/2" in/out. Cold side is: 2 1/2" to 3" coupler. 3" piping then a 3" to 4" 90 degree coupler to TB.
I Built it for a larger turbo but wanted to make sure this 7m I had build was done right. See build thread.;) The only thing I planned on changing when I install the turbo (what ever I make my mind up on) is the hot side to 2 1/2" piping.

Is this also adding to my Idle problem?
Isn't a closed system a "closed system" and dosent it matter the size of piping. (3" or less) once the IC piping if full of air where else can it go. Also FYI since were talking about air and flow, I have 272 cams and 1mm lager intake and exhaust valves.

[jdub]

Well, the smallest restriction is going to be your limiting factor for flow...2 1/2" piping is adequate for most turbos (a CT26 would only need ~2"). In your case, the 2" is the limiting diameter. For a CT26 it will be OK, but anything over 60mm (stock size) for the TB is not going to help you.

The piping size needs to be matched to the CFM the turbo is capable of. Otherwise you will exceed critical mach and experience an exponential pressure drop above it....IC piping diameter does matter...a lot. Same for the IC and the TB. They need to be sized to handle the CFM flow the turbo produces for the same reason, big enough to handle the flow, but not too big as to cause a big pressure drop. There is a "right" size for the components of an IC system.

As far as the question at hand goes, a 100mm TB is way too big for your system. The largest I would go is 75-80mm.

[92nsx]

.....As far as the question at hand goes, a 100mm TB is way too big for your system. The largest I would go is 75-80mm.

K so 75-80mm for a stock ct-26. Then once my turbo is installed I need to upgrade (chop up me FFIM) again to fit a Q45 or something around 90mm TB, since it will flow more air?

I should ask sethron, or Ron R. if they know that FFIM's with 90mm TB wont work with a ct26.

Seems like a lot of work to just have on a engine for a couple hundred miles to brake it in. Again it dosent need to be perfect just good enough to drive the couple hundred miles to brake it in.

Well maybe I should put the cover back on the car tell this winter, when I install the turbo, EMS and hope I get lucky with a 90mm TB, larger turbo, and hope the code goes away. I just wanted to brake in the engine and make sure problems I might have was not caused by the turbo or EMS, like lets say a broken wire from the TPS witch I would balme on the EMS program if I couldnt get to run on the stand alone.

I thought it would be a lot easer to tune/install/get running the EMS, knowing that every thing was good to go before installing it and know the engine/sensors were ready to go. Kind of know what I mean and/or going with this :(



So the conclusion to my idel problem and having a code 41 is that the TB is WAY TO BIG, and not sealing correct. Um...ok I guess I can go with that on the idle problem. I am just having trouble seeing why it would throw a cade 41 for the TPS.

[Facime]

I dont the think the TB is in any way directly responsible for the 41. As I said before you need to isolate where the problem lies, in the TPS itself or its wiring.

As I suggested before you need to make sure the TPS is adjusted to spec. This means using feeler gauges and checking the resistances. If its not in spec, replace it and re-adjust. If the TPS CAN be adjusted and you still have the code, the problem must be in the wires between the TPS and the CPU (or very unlikely but possible damaged ECU).

When the guy did the motor swap on my mk2 he cut the JDM harness and spliced it into the USDM harness. In doing so he mixed up two blue wires that had the same red stripe. One wire was for one of the ISCV circuits, and the other for the TPS. It took tracing the TPS wires back to the ECU to figure this out. You may not have had any wires spliced like me, but this story is to illustrate that to find the problem you NEED to check it at the ECU connections.

Please try to solve what you CAN solve first, then worry about your TB issues after you have ruled out other things.

[92nsx]

^^^ I under stand. Adjusting the TPS is easy as hell, I have done it, check it 1000 times in my life. I have swaped more 7m's in supras' the last 11 years then you probably have owned cars. This is not my first time. How ever this is my first time I have done a swap and had a code, that I can not figure out.

I know that when I spliced in the longer harness, the wires are connected to the right wire. I took a pic :). As for the rest of the wires from the harness to the ecu they can not be broken because I check them at the ecu and everything ohmed out correct (post 89, I posted the #'s). I could run 4-10' jumper wires from the TPS to the ECU just to double check.

Is there anything else that causes or could cause this code besides the TPS?

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/S5002278.jpg

[Facime]

^^^ I under stand. Adjusting the TPS is easy as hell, I have done it, check it 1000 times in my life. I have swaped more 7m's in supras' the last 11 years then you probably have owned cars. This is not my first time. How ever this is my first time I have done a swap and had a code, that I can not figure out.



You arent listening
Ive owned more cars in my lifetime than I am years old
Good luck with this

[92nsx]

k Facime well if your are talking about something other then a broken wire from the TPS to TCCS OR the TPS not being adjusted right, what else are you trying to say??????? The TCCS is shot? (I can highly doubt that the ECU is shot but wont put it past anyone, again this not been brought up if so.)

So you have "owned" 45+ different cars umm..... what kind of "cars" do you buy that only last 6 months or less? Or are you a lawyer and get to buy a new car ever 6 months? :dunno: If your a lawyer what are you doing with a MKII supra?

Well we now have 105 posts and at least one problem has been fixed :)

[jdub]

An 80mm TB is too big for a CT26, but will work. The Q45 is an 80mm (ID) TB, but has it's own wiring issues with the TPS. You need to have an IC and piping matched to the flow of the turbo, bigger IS NOT better. Focus on the entire system, not just one part of it ;)

[jetjock]

Weezl is right. In spite of your 11 years of experience (which appears to actually be 1 year of experience 11 times, (a completely different thing) you should listen to him. Being unknowledgeable about the EFI system (mighty strange for someone whose been around it so long) and possessing poor diagnostic skills can be excused but not knowing what you don't know and refusing to listen while being unable to resolve the problem yourself places your critical thinking skills on par with a mushroom. For anyone seeking advice it's a slippery slope...

[92nsx]

Again this is the first time ever using a FFIM, larger IC, and larger TB. All of my experience with my past supras' and 7m, have been direct swap. 7mgte for 7mgte using direct bolt-ons. Greddy TD06,RX-7’s 550's, AFIC, AFPR, exhaust, ect. Just bolt-ons, never nothing this involved when it comes to the fabrication of FFIM's, TB, and IC piping. I just got unlucky on this FFIM/TB :(.

Also (call it getting lucky) this is the first time ever (besides forgetting to plug in the AFM after a swap) having the check engine light come on.

I appreciate your guys help with everything. Before I started this build I asked the members (did my research) here on the forum regarding FFIM/TB and intercooler piping size. Every one that responded to my IC piping question said to use 2 1/2" on the hot side and 3" on the cold side and the 4" TB would be fine. Maybe this is the "youth" that Greg/Homer was talking about. Any further questions regarding fabrication I think I will direct towards the experts.

As for my next move, I think am going to wate untell the funds are available for my turbo (something around GT37R as long as it is ball bearing), EMS, and entire fuel system. The 12 grand is all but spent at this point of time. :( I still might try and figure out a way to mount the OEM TB to the FFIM using a reducer that I would make, and smller IC piping and see if it helps anything. ;)

I appreciate your guys help with everything on trying to fix this problem. I see now that I need a few more parts before the engine will be ready to rock n' roll. Sorry if I pissed anyone off on the way, I never meant to.

[IJ.]

Good post Rob, remember we're all learning as we go ;)
(no one knows it all, it takes time to learn who is worth listening to here )

[need new tires]

have you tried swapping you ISC? i had an issue just like this when i did my n/a-t swap. my car was acting just like yours but it would rev to 3k and then 1k then 3k ect.

the only other time i have seen something similar is when i did a gte swap and the timing belt stretched after first start-up and caused the timing to be off 2 teeth. it threw 2 codes and once i reset the timming it cleared up.


as for the throttle body being the issue i say NO. there is a local guy running a ffim/ q45 on a stock ct26 and has no tunning setup on it ( minus afpr) and he has no issues with it.
-shane

[jdub]

Take a closer look at the pic of the TB...it has a significant gap around the lower right edge. It does not completely close...pretty much makes it useless.

[need new tires]

^fair enough(i missed that).

his car is still mass air, so even tho it is sucking lots of air past the TB it still should idle, just elevated. correct? its not like a vacuum leak, or is the isc adjusting all the way out and then resetting to cause the sweeping "idle"?

(thinking "outloud")

[IJ.]

With that much bypass on the Throttle plate it would probably be close without an ICS.

Might be an idea to unplug it block the port and see how it behaves.
(I run DBW Idle control here and the Throttle is tipped 1% at idle)

[need new tires]

thats what i was leaning towrds unpluging both the isc and the tps.

side note:does the ffim have the one-way valve for the isc?

[jdub]

He blocked the ISCV air source off depriving it of air. On a stock ECU, that TB is going to cause pretty big idle problems combined with 272 cams.

[92nsx]

have you tried swapping you ISC?

The only other time i have seen something similar is when i did a gte swap and the timing belt stretched after first start-up and caused the timing to be off 2 teeth. it threw 2 codes and once i reset the timming it cleared up.

As for the throttle body being the issue i say NO. there is a local guy running a ffim/ q45 on a stock ct26 and has no tunning setup on it ( minus afpr) and he has no issues with it.
-shane

No, I have not swaped the ISC. In the Video (post 66 I think) I unplug it and block it with my finger so no air can come it throu the ISC. Idles ok for about 3 sec then back to same old same old.

As for Q45, umm........... I still think with this TB I have needs to seal better when closed, and let the ISC do it's job.


thats what i was leaning towrds unpluging both the isc and the tps.
side note:does the ffim have the one-way valve for the isc?

When I unplug the TPS the idle shoots up to 3000 RPM's and stays there. I have only unpluged the ISC once (with TPS pluged in) and nothing changed. Should I try it, having them both unpluged :dunno:
And, yes one-way valve is installed. The correct way, let air in and not out



He blocked the ISCV air source off depriving it of air. On a stock ECU, that TB is going to cause pretty big idle problems combined with 272 cams.

plus this OEM ECU probably has no idea what to do with this FFIM, TB, 272's and larger valves.


Side note: I see the "Top Guns" here are running MoTeC. I was looking at the AEM EMS. Is the MoTeC that much better of a EMU, better options, hardware faster, software, support? I am guessing not plug and play like AEM?

[IJ.]

MoTeC's strong points are a) it works b) The new software is simply brilliant c) their support is second to none.

[jetjock]

All unplugging the ISCV will do is freeze it in whatever position it happens to be in at the time. The same thing will happen if the TPS is unplugged.


When I unplug the TPS the idle shoots up to 3000 RPM's and stays there.

Considering what I just said ask yourself why that would happen...

[need new tires]

When I unplug the TPS the idle shoots up to 3000 RPM's and stays there.




right there is your problem. i know you had mentioned it but make an adapter plate for another stock TB (stocker, q45, mustang whatever) and i would bet that this issue is resolved.

[jdub]

Looks like a 52 and 41. The trick is to use the bargraph. I'd clear them and try again in case they're old. If they come back fix the 41 (TPS) first. In fact you may want to unplug the TPS and see if things improve. Timing is dead on at 1500 rpm? Hmmm. I don't think it should be but I'd have to check.


That TB is not going to work ;)

Several pages back...you're a bit late to the party NNT.

[92nsx]

All unplugging the ISCV will do is freeze it in whatever position it happens to be in at the time. The same thing will happen if the TPS is unplugged.

Considering what I just said ask yourself why that would happen...


right there is your problem. i know you had mentioned it but make an adapter plate for another stock TB (stocker, q45, mustang whatever) and i would bet that this issue is resolved.


I have a stocker laying in the garage. I will fab up a adapter plate this week and see if it helps out. I just will have no throttle cable, witch is fine for start up/idle test. If anything I can tie a string to the TB and reach out the window and use my hand as a gas pedel. LOL JK

I will just need to order a new silicone eblow to adapet to my 3" piping. I am hoping the 3" will work for this test.

I also hope this keeps Facime happy and he dosen't think I am throwing parts at it.

[jdub]

Like JJ told you a while back, it's the TPS (or wiring)...the TB you have on it is making it worse due to the seal issue.
Clear your codes, plug the TPS in (off the TB), and see if you get a code 41.

The discussion on IC piping size was to get you thinking about what your doing and how to attain the goal. 2 1/2"" piping is the largest you want to go on a CT26 turbo....if you move to the GT35, GT40 or T04 size turbos (or larger), 3" would be max. A Q45 will work (like I said) and you don't need a TB larger than 80mm for the above turbos.

If it were me, I'd sort the issue with the TPS and get a new TB. Something in the 80mm range...there's not point in putting the work into making the stock TB fit and there should not be a huge cost involved. You're still going to have idle problems due to the cams...you'll need to work with the overlap (adj cam gears). Take a look at the cam thread I posted a while back.

[92nsx]

I have swapped in the TPS (off the TB) before with no improvement. I have 3 different TPS's. The only thing I did not do was re-set the computer. I will do it again this time re-setting the computer before/after each time. TY If code is still there I will run 10' jumper wires from TPS to TCCS and see if that works.

The Throttle body adaptor I have already made. It cost me 20 minutes of my time. Not a big deal, it's just a piece of 5"X5" 1/4 thick steel with 9 holes in it.(1 of them being around 65mm in diameter ;). Again this is for testing purposes ONLY, using a manufactured TB trying anything for a improvement over what I have. When things improve I will start sourcing a 80mm TB first, along with the either GT35R, GT37R, GT40R turbo and EMS at later time..

As for the cam idle problem (s)(if there are any) I need the car idling/and somewhat drivable. The cams are degreed in according to the cam card that came with the them, unlesscam card is wrong, and the timing is right on at 10 degrees or (9.75 degrees). I cannot make anymore adjust to the cams with the idle jumping all over the place (between 1000 & 2000 RPM’s) as I would not be able to see it helped anything.

Furthermore I do not own a truck or a trailer to tow the a car to a dyno for cam adjustments with idle this way. I would need to drive the Supra to it, since the Caddy should not be used for any type of hauling, beside hauling ass, LOL. I will wait for fine tuning the cams once the car is drivable.

I believe I have read you write up on cams and over lap and why you don’t want any overlap on a turbo engine, but I will search it again an d double check to make sure it was the thread you wrote. Right now I do not believe the cams will make the engine’s idle jump 1000 RPM’s (but I have been wrong before) I also feel it is something along the lines of the in order,
1: TB
2: TPS
3: IC piping size
4: ISC
5: Cams

THANK YOU again for all the help I would not be able to do this with your support and expertise!! I owe you guys some beers or whisky if you would like.

[jdub]

Concerning the cams, it was this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763

More of a timing issue due to the helical gear being out of phase on the BC cams. There are workarounds though...read the thread. You are correct, the cams should not cause a 1000 RPM jump at idle, but you will get some lope with the 272 cams.

Degreeing sets the cams at a known "zero"...i.e a starting point. If you look at the BC cam card, it has quite a bit of overlap...about twice what the stock cams do iirc. Be very careful boosting with those cams till you get the overlap correct, you don't want to detonate due to high compression.

Make sure your adapter plate seals on both sides ;)
You've had enough trouble with pirate air.

Order wise for right now:
1: TPS
2: TB
3: ISC
4: Cams
5: IC piping size

You're welcome! ;)

[92nsx]

lope I like ;)

Yep I read that thread, you or another member showed it to me when I asked a question about my timing being off with these cams a wile back.

I believe there is around 8 degrees of overlap right now with these BC 272's. I do not know what the factory overlap is on a 7mgte.

My photobucket isn't working (I think my work's firewall is stopping it) to post any pics at the moment :(

I will make sure the adaptor is sealing correctly. I have a ton of gasking making material (it is kind of like rubber) witch I used for my current TB.

[Facime]

I also hope this keeps Facime happy and he dosen't think I am throwing parts at it.

I dont see what difference it makes if Im happy, its your car and your time. I simply felt I was banging my head against the wall and I only enjoy that for so long.


TY If code is still there I will run 10' jumper wires from TPS to TCCS and see if that works.

No need to go through that trouble right off the bat. What I was trying to get you to do earlier was to test continuity between the TPS plug end of the wires and the ECU plug end making sure you use the ECU pinout diagram for reference as to which wires to test. This will rule out (or in) wiring problems causing the code41. As I said, its what finally solved my TPS code on my mk2.

[92nsx]

No need to go through that trouble right off the bat. What I was trying to get you to do earlier was to test continuity between the TPS plug end of the wires and the ECU plug end making sure you use the ECU pinout diagram for reference as to which wires to test. This will rule out (or in) wiring problems causing the code41. As I said, its what finally solved my TPS code on my mk2.


I will also check for continuity tonight. All I was saying, when I tested the TPS single at the TCCS all 4 wires were getting the single to/from the TPS, that is why I posted my results. But never the less I can check continuity as this only takes 2 minutes. Thank you for coming back to this thread to lend me a helping hand ;)

Also I will not ever just throw(buy) parts at something if i dont think it is causing the/a problem or at least contributing to it. How ever, if I have/own 1 or 3 of them already, sitting on a shelf and I can "check" it, I will make a quick swap of the part to double check the results. Sorry for the run on sentence ,and sentence structure.

[92nsx]

Well I did test the wires from the TPS and the TCCS and the reading are as is

THW----1170 ohms, I think it is fine since it goes to the water temp sensor befor the TCCS.
IDL------.5 ohms
VTA-----.2 ohms
VC------.3 ohms

There are not any broken wires. I also doubled check the TPS (both of them) and they both still check out with in limits as out lined in TSRM and ohming them out.

Then the neighbor stoped by so we had a few beers so that is as far as i got tonight. I was not able to try this adaptor plate yet.

What else will cause this 41 when the wires and the TPS is fine?

[jetjock]

You sure seem to like doing things the hard way. The ECU does not deal in resistance. Measure VTA with the key on at the ECU connector and post it up. Not that I don't already know what it'll be but humor me.

Then there's this:


THW----1170 ohms, I think it is fine since it goes to the water temp sensor before the TCCS.

You don't see a problem with that?

[92nsx]

You sure seem to like doing things the hard way. The ECU does not deal in resistance. Measure VTA with the key on at the ECU connector and post it up. Not that I don't already know what it'll be but humor me.


We were just checking for broken wires, this is why we did a continuity test on the wires. I will also take a voltage reading tonight, and post it.



You don't see a problem with that?
As for THW, TCCS to the TPS, the TEWD shows that it dose not go directly back to the TCCS. It gose from the the TPS then through the EFI water temp sensor then TCCS. It is outlined on this TEWD page.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=48

This is what I see/read and please correct me if I am worng.
Since the water temp sensor acts like a potentiometer (rheostat) the ohms should vary according to the engine temp. ( all tests are done with a cold engine) The warmer the engine temp the lower the ohms through the sensor, thus a lower ohm reading. Correct???

[92nsx]

Here are a few checks I did at the ecu, with the tps off, switch to on, and engine not running.

TPS Closed
THW-GROUND --1.343 Vdc
VC-E2 ----.3 Vdc

TPS clamped open
IDL-E2---3.4 Vdc
VTA-E2----4.3 Vdc

Futhermore I can hear the TESM modules clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor. This is telling me that the TCCS is getting some sort of reading(I hope the correct readings)


Any other voltage checks you want me to do please post it. Example: check voltage from E2-IDL at TCCS, +B1-Ground at TCCS, VC-E2 at TCCS

[jetjock]

I wanted VTA. That means with the throttle both open and closed. That said:

1) VC-E2 is wrong. In fact based on the other measurements it's very unlikely it's .3 volts. If it is there's your problem right there. Check it again, this time with the AFM both plugged in and unplugged.

2) IDL-E2 is wrong. Not that it matters because it can't be involved in code 41. It's still wrong though.

3) WOT VTA-E2 is wrong.

4) THW is irrelevant. I have no idea why you're even messing with it.

I'm beginning understand why you think the TPS and wiring is good but you still have the code...

[92nsx]

I can do that, I will check VTA to ground (I am guessing ground) tonight with throttle open and closed.

I will also check VC-E2 with and without AFM pluged in.

Since the TESM modules are clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor what dose this tell us???????????????

As for THW I am just going by what TEWD shows me on where the 4 TPS wires go into the TCCS.

[jetjock]

Sensors should be referenced to E2 when measuring them. E1 (the chassis) can be used but the readings will be slightly different.


Since the TESM modules are clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor what dose this tell us???????????????

It tells us there's no way Vcc can be the 300 mv you claim it is


As for THW I am just going by what TEWD shows me on where the 4 TPS wires go into the TCCS.

This actually has to do with your entire problem: you don't understand how things work. What Pete found frustrating is how you refused to accept that as a possibility. Appears you still don't. It's not easy helping someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know...

[IJ.]

Education in progress!

Rob may not know now and soon as he accepts this he'll learn and will know and hopefully pass that information along to the next guy that has an issue like this :)

[jetjock]

I took it to PM. If he can't fix it now he'll never be able to...

[92nsx]

I took it to PM. If he can't fix it now he'll never be able to...

JJ thank you for the education on 41. I now have more knowledge on this, TPS, and code 41!!!

Now to make this more confusing here are the VTA and VC reading from both of my TPS's.

Both TPS's VTA readings had a smooth increase as it was opened!!!! Also Battery volts were at 12.4 Vdc during all tests.

Here is VTA readings at TCCS with TPS removed
88 TPS closed
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/88tpsclosedVTA.jpg

88 TPS open
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/88tpsopenVTA.jpg

88 TPS adjusted correctly using the shims
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/88adjustedvta.jpg

89 TPS closed with TPS removed
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/89tpsclosedVTA.jpg

89 TPS open
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/89tpsopenVTA.jpg


VCC reading with88 TPS adjusted without AFM connected
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/VCwithoutAFM.jpg

VCC reading with 88 TPS adjusted with AFM connected
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/VCwithAFM.jpg

Now if I under stood JJ correctly in my PM about code 41 shows when VTA is less then 100 mv, and should be around 300 mv when adjusted, and about 3.6 volts with it wide open. From the pics. I just took the "open readings" look to be high, what causes this???

Also VCC should be around 5 v and 4.97 is close enough right?

Comments? Thank you in advance for the advice!

[IJ.]

JJ: thanks heaps for helping out!
(If I knew I'd help but I have NFI so will sit here and learn)

[jetjock]

Now we're getting somewhere. At least the readings make sense. They sure didn't before.

Checking the TPS off the TB is mostly useless. All that does is prove it's not open circuited. The high will be higher than when on the TB and the low will be lower. This is because the TB limits TPS movement. It's also why you can't use a TPS off the TB when trying to troubleshoot code 41: when a TPS is on it's internal stop the voltage will usually be below 100 mv. This is true even with new ones. I've seen more than one TPS condemned by people who just plugged it in and wondered why they still had a 41. The point is putting it on the TB and setting it up moves the wiper off the internal stop and out of the 41 error range. One still has to contend with the idle contact when doing this and that's what gives many people grief.

Your Vcc of 4.97 is fine and having the AFM plugged in proves the AFM isn't pulling it down. The lower VTA value of 386 mv with the TPS adjusted is good. Note it's close to the 300 mv I said it should be. The one thing I don't see is what VTA is with the TPS on the TB and held wide open using the throttle linkage. Should be around 3.5. Also, is IDL now battery voltage with the throttle cracked and close to zero with the throttle closed? Lastly, have you fixed the MIL or are you still using the meter to check codes?

Ian: I think everyone here would agree you help out plenty ;)

[IJ.]

Gary: Never owned a GTE or used a stock ECU so ALL of this is new to me so when someone asks I usually handball it to someone that knows ;)
(guess who)

I'm not beyond learning new things though so just follow along quietly in the back of the class.

[jdub]

<--- Sitting next to Ian in back of class. Learned a couple things today JJ ;)

[jetjock]

It's all about understanding how things work on the root level and where Toyota was trying to get to when they wrote a procedure. Once that understanding is gained you can get to the same place using several paths. For example I never follow the TSRM for setting up the TPS. All that feeler gauge crap is way too much work. And don't ask....even though it's quicker writing it all out would be a lot more ;)

[92nsx]

I do have a new/different cluster I picked up from emiliorescigno out of a 89 turbo :). And for the record a 90+ gauge cluster cannot be used in a 89. The PCF is different. I have not installed it yet, so codes are/were from using my meter. I was planning on waiting to find a volt gauge to replace the OEM boost gauge before I installed it. But I will also install the MIL tonight so checking codes can be done easer.

Next/tonight: I will get a VTA reading with the TPS on the TB and throttle help open via the throttle cable. I will also get the IDL reading with TB closed and slightly cracked.

[92nsx]

VTA with TPS on TB, and throttle wide open via gas pedel the reading is 4.38 v. IDL is 4.69 with throttle slightly cracked, then back to 0 when closed.

Anything else? Is the VTA high? Is IDL right?

EDIT: I also got the cluster installed and the MIL light only comes on once the throttle is opened. When Idleing (jumping from 1000-2000 RPM's) the light dose not come on, but once the throttle is opened there is shining bright like the moon at night :(.

Also here Is a vid. ***This was for testing to see what would happen*** I removed the coupler from IC to TB. Well It idled, I could feel the air being sucked right through the throttle plate on the TB on the right side. Also at the end you can see once the throttle is opened is then the MIL light comes on :( Maybe this will spark some ideas.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_S5002400.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002400.flv)

[jetjock]

Sigh. Post up the codes currently set then clear memory and start over with the engine put together.

[92nsx]

Code 41 is still there. Everything is/was connected (ic coupler to TB) and re-set battery. I only removed the IC piping after the fact to see what would happen. But since the MIL came on at the same time with and without the coupler on, I posted the video to maybe spark some more Ideas why it is coming on once the throttle is opened.

I didnt mean to add any more confusion with the video. Again I just wanted to see what would happen and posted it since the engine did idle with out the 1000 rpm jump. This is why I posted it with ***This was for testing to see what would happen***.

So inclusion code 41 is current with IC coupler on and have a 1000 rpm jump. To see what would happen I removed the coupler(no metered air) to see and the idle was some what normal.

[92nsx]

***To recap*** all readings from TCCS with TB connected and TPS adjusted properly with all IC piping connected and tight.
The idle is jumping from 1000 to 2000 RPM's when at idle.
Currently getting code 41 (tps error) Battery has been reset and same code is still there. The code 41 only appears once the throttle is opened. No code when first started up and idleing, but shows up once throttle is opened.
VTA with throttle closed 386 mv
VTA at WOT 4.38 v.
The transition from 386mv to 4.38 is smooth accrost the opening. No breaks were recorded.
IDL is 0 when throttle is closed.
IDL is 4.69 with throttle slightly cracked.
VCC reading is the same with and without AFM connected 4.97 volts

[jetjock]

Clear memory, set the TPS (or a spare) when off the TB so VTA is 2 volts measured at the ECU, and try again.

[92nsx]

Clear memory, set the TPS (or a spare) when off the TB so VTA is 2 volts measured at the ECU, and try again.

Ok where is a vid. of first setting VTA to 1.999 volts using a spair TPS and using a vis-grip to clamp/hold the TPS open. Then resetting TCCS via removing ground from battery. (Was disconnected around 5 min.)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_2vbeforereset.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=2vbeforereset.flv)

Next here is the vid. of start up with VTA still set to 1.999 volts. It started up fine, idled around 2500 rpms with no code present.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/th_startupTPSat2v.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=startupTPSat2v.flv)
Thank you again JJ I am learning(slowley) but learning :)

[jetjock]

No code now huh? I suspected as much. The high idle is expected because of the increased VTA with the throttle plate closed. The ECU was enriching the mixture to about 2% CO. This (and no code 41) tells us the ECU is good and the signal is getting into the computer. I was thinking you might have a fractured VTA solder joint on the PCB pin and this was an easier way of testing it than having you pull the box out.

1) Remove the clamp and tell us what VTA is with the TPS on it's internal stop.

2) With it like that jumper T and E, start the engine, and read the MIL. Report what codes are present.

3) Stop the engine and clamp the TPS to around 500 mv (.5 volts)

4) Leaving the diag jumper in restart the engine and check the MIL.

4) Stop the engine and clamp VTA to 4 volts. Again, leave the diag jumper in.

5) Restart the engine (expect a high idle) and check the MIL again.

Btw has the throttle plate been adjusted so it's fully closed at idle?

[92nsx]

1) .001 v (spair TPS off TB on internal stop)

2) MIL .003 code 41 shows up

3) K, VTA set at 511 mv

4) code 42 & 51. Idle jumping from 1000 to 2000 rpms

4.1) TPS clamped, 4.04 volts,

5) Idle solid around 2800 rpms, code 51
Side note: fuel pressure reading is 40 psi, and vacuum is 19 inHg during #5.

throttle plate is fully closed as much as it can, TB hard stop.

If you want any vids let me know and I can shoot them quick.

[jetjock]

Code 42?

1) Again clamp the TPS at near 511 mv. Unplug it and measure the resistance between E2 and VTA on the TPS itself.

Are all these TPS used? What are the part numbers on them? On the ones installed and being used for these tests? What year ECU is being used? Is it the one that came with the car?

Reason I ask is I've reviewed the thread and saw mistakes regarding what TPS goes on what model year.

[92nsx]

blue label, TPS clamped at 516 mv, ohms are 694 from VTA-E2 on the tps.

TPS being used for these test is the OEM one that came with the car. PN# 89452-20050 blue label.

Year ECU should be 1989, The same ECU that came with the car. PN#89661-14240

I also have A TPS from a 88 turbo PN# 89452-14050, brown label, that fits the TB.

Side notes:
When I bought the car (9/2007) there was no codes.

VTA-E2 voltage reading with NO TPS pluged in is 1.732

Brown label TPS clamped at 496mv, ohms are 768 from VTA-E2

You tell me what TPS you want me to test with. Both seem to be good and both have vary close readings from previous tests. Only the brown label fits the TB.

[92nsx]

From PM.
**I did re-set the TCCS**

With TPS clamped at 516mv I jumpered from IDL-E2 with engine running and no codes showed up. MIL just stayed at the fast blink.

Idle (still) jumping from 1100 to 2000 rpms during this test.

Next I opened the throttle a little (with TPS still clamped at 516mv and off TB) then code 52 came up, YEP 52

[jetjock]

Ha. Unjump IDL and E2 and see if the 41 comes back while still clamped at 500 mv

edit: Forget the brown TPS. For now stick with the one that came with the car even if it doesn't fit the TB...

[92nsx]

Yes, 41 comes back with jumper removed and clamped at 497mv.

EDIT: Did not reset tccs for this test

Do you want me to reset tccs Before and after every test?

[IJ.]

Would make sense to clear codes each time.

[jetjock]

^ Yes, it would, at least when dealing with other than a 51.

I dunno guy. It's odd the ECU is happy with 2 volts but not with 500 mv, which is within range. Might want to try the same tests with the 14050 or spring for a new 14240. Could also put a 10K pot on the ECU connector with the TPS unplugged and see what range the ECU is happy with. Not sure what that'd get you other than proving the ECU is funky.

It's hard to shoot this from afar. If I was there I'd scope VTA and try some other things but I'm not. Might want to spring for a new TPS although frankly I can't see why that one doesn't work. Bottom line is the code should not be set with 500 mv going into the ECU. Makes me wonder if yours is damaged.

[92nsx]

Ok well thank you for all the help, and the education on the TPS. For shits and giggles I will pick up a 10k pot, maybe even a ten turn pot so I can figure out what ohm level makes the TCCS un happy. I will connect it to VTA and E2 and see what she dose. Also I can search around for a different TCCS, if I can find one at a decent price. Do you know what year TCCS will work for my 89? Is 89-92 all the same? I am guessing it has to be from a M/T 7MGTE.

Do you have any idea why the engine idles when the TB is open to the world, and using no metered air?

If anything I will wate untell I get my stand alone and hope we can figure it out then.

[Zumtizzle]

Is your ecu brown plug or yellow plug?

(89 is a sketchy year)

[92nsx]

Yes, it is gray plug. I just dont know if the 90-92 ecu will work for me.

[92nsx]

ok well playing with the TPS some more here and I found this. At 550 mv(VTA-E2) the idle shoots up to 2900-3000 and stays there. At 549 mv the idle is doing the jumping thing. So any value less the 550mv the Idle is jumping. the ohm reading at 550 mv is 1005 ohms. Also code 41 dose not show up, code 51 dose, I am guessing because the IDL is not there.

When I open up VTA more the idle dose not increase or decrease as long as I stay above the .550 mv point.

BTW: this is with the TPS of the TB, and throttle plate is closed all the way.

[figgie]

umm

I know that you are not running the stock TCCS without a TPS that has a IDL switch or one that been rigged to act like an IDL switch.

Right??

Complicating thing more than they need be.

What year is the ecu of the car?

[92nsx]

umm

I know that you are not running the stock TCCS without a TPS that has a IDL switch or one that been rigged to act like an IDL switch.

Right??

Complicating thing more than they need be.

What year is the ecu of the car?

I am a little confused, sorry.
I am using stock TCCS & stock TPS
Car is 89 turbo with OEM TCCS and OEM TPS sensor.
I also have been confirming tests with another TPS I have that is out of a 88 turbo.

[92nsx]

Any one? What is needed to fix this problem? Full stand alone? MAF PRO? Different TB? New intake manifold? Intercooler? IC piping? Turbo? Anything????? This Supra can not be driven this way!!! And I really dont want to part it out or sell it. I also do not think Toyota will have any clue what to do. When I called them and they said they "probably" can't do anything to fix it, (once I told them about the mods, what it is), but they said bring it in and we can look at it :(

This is a call out to ANYONE, if you can please help!!!!!!!!!!

[IJ.]

MoTeC ;)

[Kristian_Wraae]

Did you try different ECUs?

A friend of mine had the same problems with strange crappy idle, misfiring and idle that shoot into the sky. His car was a Frankenstein car made out of several different years.

They had the correct ECU (89+ and engine harness for 89+). But it turned out that the ECU was wrong after all. They exchanged the ECU to a pre89 and all was well. And also the CPS was faulty.

Don't you have any friends with Supras? Maybe you could borrow a new ECU from one of them. Get one of each and have a go at it.

[92nsx]

Ian,
MoTeC :) I am only worried about a basic fuel map, setup, and suck for it such for it. I am guessing they do not send a a "basic fuel map" with there EMS for a 7M and will need everything programed for start up. With my current problem I do not know if one could data log it eather. Also with a a MoTeC I do beleave the whole engine needs to be rewired correct, or just the TCCS plugs? M600, M800?

I am guessing people do not like the AEM EMS plug n' play for our cars?

Kristian,
There are a couple other supras around here but they are eather non-turbo or 87 turbo. So far no one has steped up to let me swap the TCCS local. A pre 89 TCCS will not fit my car as it has a a gray, 89, plug set up.

[IJ.]

Rob: While the MoTeC isn't PlugNplay it WILL work with all of the stock sensors/components.

Base map takes about 15>20 minutes to get something that will run the car well enough to drive then another 20 minutes road tuning will get it good enough to get to a dyno and get right.

There's a LOT of fine tuning/fiddling to get everything set to run how you want but not too many tuners will take the time to do this all anyway as time =$$$

The AEM PnP is another option but not one I've been hands on with, I know the MoTeC inside and out and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as their service/support is second to none.

It costs more but in my opinion is well worth every cent.

There are a LOT of other options when it comes to standalones and these days very few are "bad" you just need to sit down and draw up a list of things you want it to actually do and find a unit that fits the bill.

I tend to max out any hardware I get my hands on and the MoTeC is no exception so I've had to option it up a few times and this is where it gets expensive.

[emiliorescigno]

You're welcome to borrow my ECU sometime, I'm not sure what exactly it is...but I know it has yellow plugs...

[92nsx]

Um....thank you Emilio, I wonder if it will fit my TCCS plugs? Yellow (pre 89) ECU's is normally differnt (larger)and have 4 plugs,(one extra harness with like 4 wires on it) I dont think so but we could try. I know your are 90 n/a to turbo, do you have your Supra with you at state? Or maybe even have a random pic of your ecu. Eeather way give me a call if so.;)

[need new tires]

no dis to JJ but sometimes it is just faster to hang new parts. but most don't have 5 supras to swap parts with i guess(I'm spoiled). JJ is going about solving the problem the true way and actually finding the problem. its like rebuilding a starter,alternator, pumps etc. its just not worth the time anymore(in most cases).

i say swap TB, then swap ecu. if that fails it goes to the harness.

again just my opinion

-shane

[92nsx]

Swaping the TB will produce a whole new slue of its own problems since the TPS will not be OEM to this TCCS :( But yes I would like to swap it out but again it would not cause code 41.

TCCS swap: yes, I would like to so that but no one around here has one. And to spend $150 to buy a "used" one, I would rather put towards the EM system, then a "spair" TCCS witch rarely go out and would get replaced by EM system anyways.

****If any one out there has a spair for me to test mine, I will be more then happy to pay for the shipping costs and buy you a few beers.*****

The Wire harness under the hood will never be replaced with a oem one;) If anything ever got that far MoTeC would already be installed, and custom harness can be made for 1/8 the cost of a toyota one. Again the only reason I would replace the harness is due to a broken wire I could not find/fix. But since all wires(from sensor harness to harness at TCCS) have great continuity (.2-.1 ohms) there are no broken wires thus not needing the harness to be replaced.

Thank you for your input Shane

[92nsx]

Checking to see if any one else has any other ideas. Started looking into MoTeC, John Reed has not got back to me yet. I search more on Google and found one place that had prices listed and the basic M600 was $3999:aigo:. So I am guessing by the time options are added and such it will be close or over 5k. I think I will just go with AEM EMU since it seems to the same options, just no DBW :( but that is ok. Sean got his AEM for $1400 w/ GM map sensor/air temp. I would rather save the $3500, and also have my GT42R or GT37R turbo :evil2: plus extra for what ever.

Anything I could do/add to throttle plate to make it have a tighter fit? Just looking for any ideas for stuff to try since this is a long weekend and I have no plans.

THX

[jdub]

The AEM will work well.

Just get a new TB as discussed earlier...the homemade one you have is out of round. I doubt you can fix it without a new body.

[IJ.]

Rob: I never said it was the cheap option ;)

[92nsx]

Rob: I never said it was the cheap option ;)

You got to pay to play, right. LOL I just didn't think it would be 4 time the price of a AEM. more like 500-1000 more.

Any who I am working on my temp displays this weekend. Pics. tomarrow ;)

[IJ.]

ALL the cool guys have one ;)

[figgie]

92nsx

you still have the 42 code coming up? Is that the only code?

Also on the TPS front.

I have an OEM TPS that is still attached to the OEM TB. I pulled it working from my car.

And as IJ stated, all the cool guys are running MoTeC ;)

edit:

on the TPS front. I know JetJock had you do some testing. Did by chance you also take a gander at the TSRM and follow that?

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=36

[92nsx]

Figgie, Sorry 41 still, then after a wile 52 comes around, but I'm with JJ that 52 is from 41 so we were just looking at 41. On my TB I have, it still used the OEM TPS. I have 2 of them that we have been playing with, both have/get the same readings/voltage. I would like to try another one but don’t know the next time I will get down your way.

As for the TRSM, Yep did that and I get the "Try another ECU". Since I don’t have ECU/TCCS laying around and the only ones I can find local to try are 87-88, I have been not swapped the TCCS.

Furthermore instead of spending the $200 bones on a used TCCS, I will just wait tell this winter for the stand alone since it was already planning on getting/installing one this winter.

Also I don’t get to hang with the cool guys yet when it comes to the MoTeC, once I saw their price. I will be going with AEM's EMU for less than half their price.

You have any 89+ TCCS around?

[figgie]

Also I don’t get to hang with the cool guys yet when it comes to the MoTeC, once I saw their price. I will be going with AEM's EMU for less than half their price.

You have any 89+ TCCS around?


Well keep in mind. The AEM uses the stock OEM harness. If it is a wiring issue. It will appear again in the AEM. The AEM or any standalone is best used when the car is in tip top shape. Otherwise a problem might appear to be ECU related when it is wiring related.

I do not have any TCCS laying around. I sold mine off but mine was an 87 anyway.

[92nsx]

Well according to the test we have already did in this thread the harness is good, no broken wires, plugs, corrosion, ect. So yes, I am also thinking it is something to do with the TCCS since the TPS checks out good, harness checks out good, but I can not test the software in the TCCS to see if it is also good or now. But as JJ and I have tested all the voltage/signals coming from and going to/from the TCCS are good also. This is why we are lost on this code 41.

[92nsx]

Any one????? Still the only answer to fix this problem is a stand alone. Any other ideas?

[Kristian_Wraae]

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=7mgte+ecu&category0=

[jetjock]

I'm not lost, just not there ;)

New TB won't help. The ECU doesn't know squat about throttle bodies....all it knows is signal. If you'd like send me the ECU and I'll run a bench check on it. I have factory test gear plus some stuff of my own design that can do it. Might as well send the TPS too.

[92TealSupra]

If you need a new TPS I have one and I am willing to help out 10.00 Plus shipping to where you are, I have a couple and I don't need them so anything to help you out, I would also suggest taking jetjock up on his offer.

[92nsx]

JJ I sent you a pm;) I will have JJ take a look at the TCCS & TPS.
I would like to have this 7m running correctly/no codes, before the stand alone is installed

Kristian, thank you for finding that, I have searched ebay but didnt find any TCCS. Maybe if the TCCS tests bad, I will have to pick that up.

[IJ.]

I'm not lost, just not there ;)

New TB won't help. The ECU doesn't know squat about throttle bodies....all it knows is signal. If you'd like send me the ECU and I'll run a bench check on it. I have factory test gear plus some stuff of my own design that can do it. Might as well send the TPS too.

It's gonna come back with "hello kitty" stickers ;)

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/hello-kitty.jpg

[jdub]

LMAO! JJ's gonna put the skull and cross bones on it just for that!

[92nsx]

LOL, kitty power FTW.

Thank you again for the on going support. There has been too many times I wanted to "throw the towel in" on this project. But then I just check in with you guys/gals and get ambition back. I think we can still get it running right yet!!!

[92TealSupra]

Nice job with everything, it always is nice to see someone putting time into something then having it work correctly

[jetjock]

I'll be surprised to find out it's the ECU but we'll see.

Lmao @ the hello kitty thing. Since my stepdaughter is crazy about that stuff don't be surprised if it comes back with something on it...

[IJ.]

Rob: Don't know if you've followed any of my build threads but you really need a "no surrender" attitude sometimes :)

[92nsx]

JJ: It’s all good ;) Maybe a truck ride to Cal. might help it out. I’m not sure what else it could be, since we have tested almost everything we could. <crossing fingers> you find something. I will get the TPS's labeled, everything packaged up, and sent out monday morning. TY

IJ: I looked through a few of them, but didn’t read every post. That would take me 10 years, because you are such a popular guy ;) I like your pic. thread though. Yes, I am slowly getting the "no surrender" attitude, and just telling myself all in good time it will come together.

[jdub]

Rob - I don't know if you saw this. If you're thinking about using a Q45 TB, this looks like a good alternative:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77634

Upside - it includes a flange.
Downside is you'll have to get a Q45 TPS and wire it to your harness.

[92nsx]

^^^ yep I saw that. I asked Arron what TPS it uses (Im post #3 ;)) But thank you!
I was looking at that one, the blue TB (earlier in this thread)for $100 more that uses our stock TPS, or a mustang TB with ford TPS. Not sure what one I should go with. I can just see though if there was ever another TPS error and I was using the Q45 TPS, or ford TPS, members would "jump" on me for "it's not wired correctly". Also the blue one comes in eather 80,90,100mm.

I guess now is better then ever for a "what would you use of the 3?" question.

[jdub]

Pics:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31723010554.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7093374)

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31723010524.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7093375)

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31723010641.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7093376)

80mm...stock TPS ;)

[92nsx]

^^^ yep that is the one I like. Jdub if that is yours you the man!!!! Will the 80mm work with the turbo I am planing on? gt35R, gt37R, or maybe even the lag monster gt42R

[jdub]

Yep...that's mine ;)

Seth made that FFIM and he uses the same TB on his as well.

An 80mm will easily handle a GT35/37...I'm looking at the T04Z or GT40R. Not that I would use the 42R, I'd go 90mm if I did.

[92nsx]

Did you get it from Seth ? Or where did you buy it from? I can only find it on ebay:(

[jdub]

Seth got it for me...it was the same as the eBay price at the time. Mine is identical to the one you showed in post #96.

[92nsx]

Ok, that is the one off ebay. thank you

[92nsx]

JJ, it's in the mail.
Thank you again

[emiliorescigno]

*Eagerly awaits news*

[92nsx]

For a update on this thread:
I sent the ECU and TPS's out to JJ and he just got done checking them out, and both checked out GOOD. He even hardwired the TPS to the ECU and it was happy with no codes!!!!. I just doubled checked E2 and it is good. 1.4 ohms form TPS to ECU. May a trip out to Cail, fixed the ECU or TPS, LOL. Any way's right now I am wating for them to show back up in the mail so I can hook them back up and see what happens.

If anyone has any other ideas feel free to post it.

[annoyingrob]

Here's what I want you do do when you get the ECU and TPS back.

-Insert a small wire, or strip the insulation back so you can measure E2 while it's plugged into the TPS

-With the ECU and TPS installed, turn the key to on.

-Measure the voltage between E2 at the TPS, and the battery negative. You SHOULD have 0v. If you're getting anything else, like 0.5v or something, then you have a problem with your grounds.

-Measure the voltage between VCC and the battery ground too (with the ECU on, and TPS connected. It should read very close to 5V.

If either if these signals are off, then you are effectively scaling the signal that the TPS is sending the ECU. If this scaled signal falls too low, your ECU throws a code.

Then, measure the voltage between E1 and the battery ground, then E2 and the battery ground at the ECU, while the ECU is plugged in, and on.

What I believe is happening is that somewhere, something is pulling your ground (or 0v to keep figgy happy) up a little bit, maybe to 0.5v or something. If the TPS was originally sending the ECU a 500mv signal, now all of the sudden the ground that the ECU is referencing at is at 400mv, the ECU thinks the TPS is actually sending a 100mv signal, and throws a code.

does this make sense to you at all?

[92nsx]

^^^ yep will post results as soon as it shows up.

[92nsx]

First a update :). well I recived the ECU back form JJ and everything checked out good!! So I hooked everything back up and...........same idle problem (revs on its own from 1000 rpm's to 2000 rpm's) but code 41 dose not show up!!
Code 41 fixed :)
But now there is a code 52 showing up, lol. Knock sensor crap.


Ok Rob here are your readings:
I put a small wire(28 agw) wire in on E2 at the tps and with the key on there was a reading recorded of .008 vdc (8 ma)

VC to E2 is 4.99 vdc with TPS connected.

E1 to battery ground has a reading of .005 and E2 to battery ground has a reading of.006.

Here is the video again to maybe spark some ideas.
http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/?action=view&current=S5002345.flv

[figgie]

vacuum

check cam overlap. on our turbo cars you should ZERO overlap on each of the exhaust to intake stroke. Yes that means deviating from cam cards.

that surgin,. what happens when you completly block off the IAC from the picture? technically that surging should stop.

[NashMan]

that's easy

tps is off reajust it use carb clear to find vac leak

but sure your tps is off

[92nsx]

Ok next I will work on the valve over lap, as for a vacuum leak, if there is one it can not be found. I have already been threw 2 cans of starting fluid, and tripled checked every hose in the engine bay. I have also blocked off my vacuum block (so nothing gets vacuum) and it changes nothing. As for TPS needing adjustment, unless some one can prove JJ is wrong, I am going with what the ecu is giving me for mv and 384 mv, the ECU is happy with.

As for when I block off the IAC with my finger it dose nothing!! It still reves as it likes. I noticed yersterday when I pulled the supra out of the garage, the idle was fluctuating for the first 5-7 sec. then it was at high idle (2000 rpm's) and stayed there for about 1 min. Almost like when it has a higher idle to warm up quicker. but after 1 min or so it goes back to the up and down thing.

[jetjock]

Your TPS is fine. The code 51 activity you PMed me about proves that, as does a closed VTA of 384 mv. That's a bit high but well within what the ECU needs to be happy. Fwiw if you block the ISC hose and the PCV port on the TB the engine should die. If it doesn't you either have a leak or the throttle plate isn't fully closed...

[92nsx]

^^^^thank you JJ.

The TB is closed as much as it can, it doesn’t completely close on the one side, since it was a "custom piece o-crap" TB I received from tubbie.

JJ, this also gave me another idea, I am also going to block off the TB completely with some tick plastic I have. Wrap the plastic around the TB, reinstall the intercooler coupler over it, and tighten it down. This way NO air can get past the TB and everything needs to go through the ISC.

[jdub]

Dude - you really need to replace that TB per our previous series of posts ;)
You will never be able to get it to work with that gap.

[annoyingrob]

Ok Rob here are your readings:
I put a small wire(28 agw) wire in on E2 at the tps and with the key on there was a reading recorded of .008 vdc (8 mV)

VC to E2 is 4.99 vdc with TPS connected.

E1 to battery ground has a reading of .005 and E2 to battery ground has a reading of.006.


Well that's all very good. Looks like your TPS is working fine now anyways.

[92nsx]

Yes, at the moment the TPS seams to work fine. The ride to china must have some how fixed it. Sorry I didn't get time last night to work on the poopra. I finished sheetrocking the garage so this winter it is easier to heat, and then fall garage cleaning ensued. LOL

[annoyingrob]

Dear 92nsx:

your car hates you.


that is all.

[92nsx]

^^^^ YES it dose, LOL. Before to much more troubleshooting the TB is going to be replaced, so this thread might go dormant again. :( Thank you Rob for the TS tips on flashchat.

[MKIII TURBO60-1]

did u replace the tb, i read the whole thread over 200 post and car isnt fixed yet, that sux, need to get ur car running i know the feeling been without mine a year

[92nsx]

Well I have the A Q45 TB now bolted up, and she is ready for a another test fire. <crossing fingers> But the problem Is my turbo is on another supra right now that we had to move and now that supra is under 3 feet of snow. Plus with it being -15 degrees out side for the last month nothing else has happened beside ordering a couple more parts. Maybe with in the month Emilio's turbo will be back form the rebuilders and I will install his turbo untell we can get his car out of the snow.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/92nsx/DSCF1170.jpg

BTW Mine has been down since I bought it (September of 07). Im not in a huge hurry to finish it, it is my toy, but this FFIM is junk and pissing me off/. But never the less I will try to make it work before I throw it away and buy a new/different one

[MKIII TURBO60-1]

well when u start working on it again, check ur cps, it should look like this when everything is at tdc,
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23318563877.jpg

[92nsx]

EDIT: Yes the CPS is set correct, timing is on the nuts at 10 degrees and is not a problem at this time.

[IJ.]

Rob: While I understand your frustration please keep it polite ;)

[empera]

bump. ;)

[figgie]

Rob

that FFIM is aluminum.

Give it to me. I could use the money from th scrap Aluminum!!

NO I AM NOT JOKING.. lol

[92nsx]

^^^ I'll put in the black bag with the 20 cases of empty beer cans also ;)

[funky_monkey58]

There is a good possibility that Emilios turbo is already done. The guys in burnsville work fast.

[NashMan]

hummm that thottle body look's like it used to be long to some one hummmmm

[92nsx]

Yep that would be your old one Ryan, I just "modified" (removed xtra linkage) it little in hopes of getting it to work.

[92nsx]

Ok well to bring some closure to this thread, Sean & Emilio stoped by yerterday and last night Played musical turbo's for the last time (remove mine from Emilio's car), got mine back on my car and Emilio got his new turbo installed on his car.

Put back together my supra, with the Q45 TB. & BAM, she idles like no ones business!!! Perfect, except for the "loop" with the 272 cams. I even had the idle down to 750 rpms. I havent driven it yet but the throttle seemed responsive, and everything look to be ok.

Still have low vacuum only 10 inhg :( cams?

[MKIII TURBO60-1]

thats awesome man, you should record some video when u take her for a drive

[Kristian_Wraae]

What was the problem?

[92nsx]

What was the problem?

The main problem was the "custom" throttle body, that was a POS. The butterfly valve / plate did not not seal correctly. There was also the manifold flange problem towards the beginning of the thread.


thats awesome man, you should record some video when u take her for a drive

We will see what we can do.

[Kristian_Wraae]

You are running this on the stock ECU, right?

Did you graft the toyota TPS on or did you use the Nissan?

[92nsx]

I am using the 7M TPS on the Q45. There is a adaptor out there at suprasport, but I just modded the Q45 so it will work.