Oil Pump Question

[Grant]

I have been looking around for about 3 hours now and I can not find it. Does any one here know what the flow rate in GPM on our GTE pumps are?

I am trying to calculate how much smaller I need to make the drive gear to increase my oil flow and oil pressure because I have noticed our oil pumps are just not up to par when it comes to lubricating our engines.

So once I know the flow rate I can calculate what diameter or drive gear I need to make, to make our pumps flow an acceptable amount.:naughty:

[IJ.]

You run the risk of cavitating the pump at redline.

[Grant]

You run the risk of cavitating the pump at redline.

Well I need to do some thing; I figured that since our pumps were not up to the level they should be that running it just a little faster would help. I am not talking about running it a lot faster.

I know we can shim the pump but that is just going to rise the relieve pressure. I have seen too many of the 7M's die because of lack of oil.

I was always told that you should have at least 10psi for every 1000 rpm you run. So we should be looking at 65psi at least.

[Rennat]

All i've seen after people shim the pump and rebuild the engine is that they break something else! It also depends on what oil you are going to run.

[Grant]

All i've seen after people shim the pump and rebuild the engine is that they break something else! It also depends on what oil you are going to run.

I plan on breaking the engine in on shell rotella T, diesel oil. Then after my first 5-10K miles switch over to synthetic oil.

What kind of oil pressure is everyone looking at with a shimed pump?

[BlackDevilSupra]

IIRC, Qwikstrike gets ~100psi on cold start and about 40 - 80psi on warm idle and cruise. PM qwikstrike for more info.

[Grant]

IIRC, Qwikstrike gets ~100psi on cold start and about 40 - 80psi on warm idle and cruise. PM qwikstrike for more info.

Ok, I sent a PM to qwikstrike.

[jdub]

Well I need to do some thing; I figured that since our pumps were not up to the level they should be that running it just a little faster would help. I am not talking about running it a lot faster.

I know we can shim the pump but that is just going to rise the relieve pressure. I have seen too many of the 7M's die because of lack of oil.

I was always told that you should have at least 10psi for every 1000 rpm you run. So we should be looking at 65psi at least.


Shim the pump ~5mm and get rid of the stock filter head...it also has a cooler relief valve that functions at ~40 psi. Install a full flow, thermostat controlled cooler/remote filter head circuit.

Going with a thick oil to increase psi on stock bearing clearances is not a good idea IMO...the reduced flow (due to higher viscosity) through the bearings defeats the whole idea.

[Grant]

Shim the pump ~5mm and get rid of the stock filter head...it also has a cooler relief valve that functions at ~40 psi. Install a full flow, thermostat controlled cooler/remote filter head circuit.

Going with a thick oil to increase psi on stock bearing clearances is not a good idea IMO...the reduced flow (due to higher viscosity) through the bearings defeats the whole idea.

I am not running a thicker oil to increase pressure. I am running a 10-30 Rotella T. I am just running diesel oil for the anti-wear additives. Because modern oils have pulled out ZDDP and all kinds of anti-wear lubricants.

I do plan on running a remote filter head and cooler

[jdub]

Ummm...not completely true. There has been a significant reduction in ZDDP, but the only real impact is in the old Chevy motors w/ flat tappet cams. Most oils I've seen have substituted soluble moly and the PAO or ester based synthetics require very little anti-wear additives to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, Rotella T is one of the best dino oils out there and does contain a health dose of ZDDP. It should serve you well ;)

Removing the stock filter head will gain you 10-20 psi at RPM's over 3000.

[IJ.]

40 psi Hot idle
100 psi above 3500 once the Cooler gets full flow.

Canton Remote adaptors
Trans Dapt T Stat
3 Qt Moroso Accumulator
8 Qt Group A Magnesium pan
B&M 11x8" Header cooler
Moroso thick case filter
-10 lines and fittings

My Oil system is bullet proof and doesn't kill engines.

[Grant]

40 psi Hot idle
100 psi above 3500 once the Cooler gets full flow.

Canton Remote adaptors
Trans Dapt T Stat
3 Qt Moroso Accumulator
8 Qt Group A Magnesium pan
B&M 11x8" Header cooler
Moroso thick case filter
-10 lines and fittings

My Oil system is bullet proof and doesn't kill engines.

Now thats a system that I could live with.
How much money are we talking about though?

[IJ.]

Grant: How much is your motor worth to you? ;)

I don't have a total on the parts but everything is readily available.

You can save a few $$$ buying permacool/transdapt parts and they work fine but aren't "servicable" ie: the tend to break if you have to unbolt them.

[Grant]

Grant: How much is your motor worth to you? ;)

I don't have a total on the parts but everything is readily available.

You can save a few $$$ buying permacool/transdapt parts and they work fine but aren't "servicable" ie: the tend to break if you have to unbolt them.

I know, I should know better being an engineering student an all...
Well if every thing goes togather good and it all works and fires, I hope to never need to be taking it on and off..

what breaks when you unbolt it?

[IJ.]

I broke the Adaptor that screws onto the block in half when I was removing it for an unrelated rebuild.

[Grant]

Sounds like a cheap adaptor, if it broke after being removed once.

[Grant]

How much was your Accumulator?
How are they activated? Is it an electric solinoid?

[IJ.]

They look to be cast from Zamak and it's NOT the strongest material they could have chosen.

Also seen them split the fitting bosses when people have tried to tighten the tapered pipe threads.

[Grant]

well their is the first problem, you should never cast a piece that is going to be threaded. Or even be an adapter that has to hold pressure.

[IJ.]

Hence my use of the Canton parts ;)
(It wasn't worth my time to draw a part and fire up my CNC for what they cost)

[Grant]

no kidding, I have been turning out parts here at the local high school on their cnc mill and lathe.

[IJ.]

Yep by the time I grab a billet hog it out and have it anodised it's just not cost effective as I can't afford to pay me my hourly rate ;)

[Grant]

That's why you work for free when it comes to the supra!

[IJ.]

LOL makes more sense for me to work the machines then pay for quality parts ;)

[Grant]

How much was your accumulator? How is it activated?
Could you send me some pics of your set up?

[HommerSimpson]

wana hear one of my brain farts on an Allturnative oil pump ?





Well i was thinkin.. if looked around hard enought might be able to find one of these and replace the intermediat shaft... now ofcourse ther is not going to be one that will work off the bat but i bet somone with a cnc could fab some of these up to work.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://motorsport.bdg.com.au/images/CP031.jpg&imgrefurl=http://motorsport.bdg.com.au/drysump.html&h=445&w=600&sz=36&hl=en&start=12&sig2=zzE-rYbElgu7LCHXOhos7g&tbnid=-kTD-ac5YW_-6M:&tbnh=100&tbnw=135&ei=WYQjSLu3OaLGgwKDzYCLDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddry%2Bsump%2Boil%2Bpump%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

[IJ.]

About $300 from memory, mine is set up Dumb no "activation" as such and just sits there charged waiting for any drop in pressure then pumps it's load back into the Main gallery.

Sorry no pics but it's mounted on the rail under the intake (may not work for a LHD car though)

[Grant]

So you do not open it up before you start your car? It just sits charged all the time waiting for your engine to lose its oil pressure. Then and only then will it open up and dump in to the main galley.

[IJ.]

It's open all the time.

I don't do the prelube thing at all.

The filters I use have an antidrainback valve so the second the pump turns you have flow and shortly after pressure.

You can get a solenoid valve and activate this on shut down and startup but I'm lazy ;)

I have mine for high G turns.

[gofastgeorge]

I have been looking around for about 3 hours now........


Here is a good thread on oiling.
It used to be stickied.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31378

[HommerSimpson]

Here is a good thread on oiling.
It used to be stickied.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31378

I have looked at them links a few times.. I acually want to order the fittings tonight from summit.. So my question is... does anyone have the part numbers for the fittings for the oil hose that replaces banjo one.. and also the part numbers for the fittings for the block... I like the idea of using the lower port and blocking the oil filter port... I dont want to order wrong ones ... as to why im asking..
Thanks Greg

[Quin]

I believe they are posted in IJ's build thread, near the beginning

[HommerSimpson]

I believe they are posted in IJ's build thread, near the beginning

Well i dont see his thread... just pics vids and what i did... and i looked lol