Burning Oil, How?

[nosman4]

I just built my motor and have about 500 miles on it, but it burns some oil. I don't see any evidence of oil burning on the plugs and I assume it's not valve seals since it is a remanufactured head. No smoke on startup either. The turbo felt a little excessive on free play when I had the motor out, so my question is, is the oil coming from the turbo. The only time I can actually see the puff of smoke is coming to a stop, pushing the clutch in, and letting off the gas. Just as the rpms come down some smoke comes out. It is blue smoke. Is this caused by turbo seals going bad? I do get a little bit of smoke on acceleration, but it isn't easy to see unless you are on a dyno. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Ian

[Aspec]

I just built my motor and have about 500 miles on it, but it burns some oil. I don't see any evidence of oil burning on the plugs and I assume it's not valve seals since it is a remanufactured head. No smoke on startup either. The turbo felt a little excessive on free play when I had the motor out, so my question is, is the oil coming from the turbo. The only time I can actually see the puff of smoke is coming to a stop, pushing the clutch in, and letting off the gas. Just as the rpms come down some smoke comes out. It is blue smoke. Is this caused by turbo seals going bad? I do get a little bit of smoke on acceleration, but it isn't easy to see unless you are on a dyno. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Ian



Are you venting your bypass/blowoff valve to atmosphere or recirculating?




_

[Poodles]

how is your PCV setup?

The rings might not be fully broken in either...

[Aspec]

how is your PCV setup?

The rings might not be fully broken in either...




No smoke on startup either.


Then it's not oil.



The only time I can actually see the puff of smoke is coming to a stop, pushing the clutch in, and letting off the gas.


Then it's not the rings.



It is blue smoke.


That is fuel.


_

[Rennat]

I thought blue smoke was oil, and black smoke was fuel???

[nosman4]

Blue smoke is oil and Black smoke is fuel. I am venting to atmosphere, but that wouldn't affect the oil burning, because it is not fuel it's oil. I am burning noticeable amounts when I check it every 100 miles. PCV is set up in the stock formation.

[tlo86]

what oil are you using, i would check compression just incase.

[Nick M]

I thought blue smoke was oil, and black smoke was fuel???

Not always. Fuel can be white also.

Dash pot adjusted correctly?

[nosman4]

tlo86 - I am using a SAE30 oil still, I am going to run that until 1000 miles and switch to synthetic.

Nick_M - Elaborate on what you mean by Dash pot adjusted correctly. Why would this cause it to burn oil?

I am going to do a compression test tomorrow just to see if it is fine. I'll add more tomorrow.

[xcyanideslethalx]

id say the turbo bearing sleal if thats what it is cause i have excessive free play in my turbo shaft and it drips oil like a baby that drools lol

[Doward]

Never seen a rich gasoline mixture burn white. Transmission fluid and antifreeze burn white.

Excess fuel burns black.

Oil burns blue.

How were your rings broken in? What kind of rings did you install?

[WhtMa71]

Lots of oil will burn white as well..I know this from having a valve guide problem.

How have you been breaking the motor in? Putting it under load and engine breaking? Do a compression test. Then do a wet compression test.

Could be the turbo, my turbo burns a little oil(which is pretty common.) Doesnt really smoke but i can smell it sometimes when i come to a stop.

[nosman4]

The piston rings were broken in on the dyno. According to RREVmotorsports, this works really well since the dyno loads the rings on accel and decel. I believe the rings are seated, but I will do a comp test today and get back to you guys. Yeah, I can smell the oil everytime I come to a stop and a majority of the time I can see it pass my window.

[Aspec]

With all due respect... Everyone needs to re-read the first post.

The puff of smoke on decel is a/f going rich momentarily because he is venting to atmosphere. Period.

If he is burning oil on decel, explain to me why there is no smoke at startup. If oil gets into the combustion chamber on decel there would be residual oil left after shutdown. If it's the turbo leaking oil you will have oil in the intercooler piping. Do you?


Now, after reading his most recent post it would appear that the "puff" of smoke has now become a cloud large enough to see rolling past the drivers window and heavy enough that he can smell it. Is there any other descriptive info that may be helpfull? Are you sure there is not an oil leak?



Let us know. :icon_bigg


_

[Clip]

Never seen a rich gasoline mixture burn white. Transmission fluid and antifreeze burn white.

Excess fuel burns black.

Oil burns blue.

How were your rings broken in? What kind of rings did you install?

air cooled engine in a go kart (briggs 5 hp) was running extremely rich, carb was fucked up beyond repair and every time we'd start it up and get on/off the gas it would smoke white, and a lot of it. im talking:

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/Atmosphere/images/cumulonimbus3_small.jpg

[nosman4]

Ok guys, I will try to explain it the best I can. I did a compression test and all cylinders were 160psi. I was trying to pinpoint exactly when it smoked, while I was driving home from work today and noticed a few things. I was cruising at about 45mph and let off the gas, no smoke came out, I stayed off the gas for 5 secs, but right as I would touch the pedal and the throttle would open a puff of smoke would come out. It didn't matter how much I opened the throttle plate I could just barely open it and it would puff out some smoke. I did this a few times and it did the same thing. This is probably the same thing that is happening as I come to a stop. The idle control valve is opening as the engine slows down and a puff of smoke comes out. It isn''t really a cloud of smoke that rolls by the car when I stop. It's just enough to be seen and sometimes I can only smell it.
Aspec- I can see why you think it was the BOV to atmosphere, because I didn't give a good enough description, but I just noticed the above info while coming home today. Sorry to mislead.
I also don't know if there is oil in the lower intercooler pipe/intercooler, but I am going to pull the pipe off tomorrow and see.

Any more ideas with the new description guys?

Thanks for all the help so far,
Ian

[Nick M]

The dash pot is an emission control device that will help burn the fuel left from decel. There is a process in the repair manual for checking/adjusting.

[Aspec]

Aspec- I can see why you think it was the BOV to atmosphere, because I didn't give a good enough description, but I just noticed the above info while coming home today. Sorry to mislead.
I also don't know if there is oil in the lower intercooler pipe/intercooler, but I am going to pull the pipe off tomorrow and see.



No apology needed. :bigthumb:

You don't need to pull the lower IC hose to check. Just pull one of the uppers that lead to the throttle body and check for oil. :icon_bigg



_

[suprahero]

How much oil have you lost? Just curious as too how much it's burning. My wife's car was doing something similar and it ended up being the turbo seals, but I can't remember if it was acting exactly like yours.

[nosman4]

I would say I burnt about 3/4 of a quart in about 450 miles. My friend just told me tonight that it smokes more after boosting it and letting off the gas (not sure if this really happens though, because I havn't seen it myself). I also don't really have any oil to speak of in the upper IC pipes, so that is why I'm gonna pull a lower one to see if it's any different.

[Rennat]

my eclipse had that problem... start it up, no smoke. driving away no smoke.

but when i would boost it away, my girlfriend who was driving behind me said there was a trail of "stuff" from where my car was. haha

but i can see why it happens when you get back on throttle. Your turbo is just spinning... then on decel it takes away any "load" on it, and then when you get back on it, it sucks some oil out and then burns it. (it makes sense in my head at least)

and thanks again for lettin me borrow the torque plate!!!!!

[CyFi6]

With all due respect... Everyone needs to re-read the first post.

The puff of smoke on decel is a/f going rich momentarily because he is venting to atmosphere. Period.

If he is burning oil on decel, explain to me why there is no smoke at startup. If oil gets into the combustion chamber on decel there would be residual oil left after shutdown.


_

Many times the intake valve seals will leak on decell from the high vacuum in the intake manifold and will not leak any noticeable amount at any other time. Blue smoke on decell is actually the main symptom of intake valve seals leaking.

[Aznfryboi]

Best thing to do is, Just GEt a Whole new Set of Gasket and Replace all of them!, Go to ebay and buy them, there like 87 gasket seals cost about $50. it could be either comming from cam seal, or head gasket, i don't know. Put its what i would do. Replace all gasket, and leave head gasket after market.

[Rennat]

he JUST rebuilt his engine...

and its not going to be a gasket...

[bigaaron]

Never seen a rich gasoline mixture burn white. Transmission fluid and antifreeze burn white.

Excess fuel burns black.


If it's rich enough it will make plenty of white smoke. Pop off an ic pipe on a 7m and try to drive it, and you'll see white smoke. :icon_wink

[nosman4]

I don't know why, but I get the feeling some of you guys are not reading previous posts. I don't know where fryboi pulled out cam seal or headgasket. READ ALL POSTS!! I just rebuilt the motor all new oem quality gaskets, not cheap ebay crap. Compression numbers again were 160psi on all cylinders, no change or very little when oil added. Not rings! I rechecked the plugs and there is a little evidence of oil burning so with the help of some of you guys I have pretty much narrowed it down to the turbo seals. I still have to check the lower IC pipe, but with the amount of play in the turbo, i think it's time for a rebuild.
Any more educated suggestions are appreciated. To those who have helped, you know who you are and thanks again.

Ian

[Doward]

If it's rich enough it will make plenty of white smoke. Pop off an ic pipe on a 7m and try to drive it, and you'll see white smoke. :icon_wink

I won't see anything but less power - I'm speed density ;)

I guess I've just never had anything run THAT rich, lol!

[tlo86]

did you check for leakage from the turbo? any visible oil leaks on the bottom?

[sneakypete]

if you pull off the intake pipe to the turbo, there should be visible oil inside the inlet if it were leaking.... at least that was the case when i had a ct

[WhtMa71]

Thats not always the case..Usually if theres oil in the inlet thats just from the PCV system. At least i havnt seen a turbo leak oil into the inlet. Its ususally in the intercooler pipes or blows out into the exhaust side.

[CBatstone]

I am seeing the exact same issue with my 7MGTE. I see a lot of smoke when I'm idling at a stop light. When I get on it and build some good boost (out of traffic) there is no visible smoke. Most of the time when Idling the exhaust is as clear as can be, no trace of smoke, then sometimes after startup, or at a stoplight or in traffic it will smoke (always blue)

1400 miles on fresh rebuild
Remanufactured Head
Rebuilt CT26

Going to check all items mentioned in this post, Starting with Intercooler pipes and checking PCV system.