Exhaust manifold temperature

[Nick M]

How hot does the stock cast manifold actually get? I had an idea of using my high heat engine paint with ceramic on the manifold as long as the manifold is off the car. They claim 500 degrees, and 1200 intermittently. Since exaust temps can hit 1200no problem, where does that leave the manifold?

[hiimjohnespino]

Not sure the temp on the exhaust manifold but they have header paint thats rated at 1200 at your local auto zone. I've used 500 degrees on my car and it became discolored so I would go with the 1200.

[IJ.]

I've had my header hot enough to melt the Ceramic coating I used to use Nick.

[Ma70.Ent]

Well if it means anything to you, jdub recommends using 2000 deg coating and he says that 1300 won't last, or something along those lines.

[bigboost7m]

Hmmmmm, Id go with a tubular manifold, the stainless steel looks bad ass when it gets hot, and you dont have to worry about paint coming off.......lol, jk. I think it all depends on how much you want to spend. Id go with ceramic coating if you can afford it, a good place that does coatings is:

Dart Machinery
353 Oliver Street
Troy, MI 48084
(248)362-1188

If you just want to spray bomb it, VHT makes a high heat paint rated to 2000F that I have use before, but only on the block. But it lasted for 2 years, and still looked great when I pulled the motor.

[Rennat]

VHT Flame Proof. good to 2000 degrees.

we used it on my friends manifold, turbo, and o2 housing (elbow) and its still on after 6months... and he BEATS on his car boosting it all the time.

[Nick M]

Thanks. The only VHT I know of is a substance put on the track that slicks grab a hold of on launch. I will look it up.

[IwantMKIII]

VHT Flame Proof. good to 2000 degrees.

we used it on my friends manifold, turbo, and o2 housing (elbow) and its still on after 6months... and he BEATS on his car boosting it all the time.



VHT is 1500 degrees not 2000, maybe intermittenly. I just ordered some last week. won't get here for another week cause they sold out of the clear coat :aigo:

[jdub]

VHT Flame Proof. good to 2000 degrees.

we used it on my friends manifold, turbo, and o2 housing (elbow) and its still on after 6 months... and he BEATS on his car boosting it all the time.


Question of the day...do you want it to look good or actually provide a benefit. Like cutting radiated heat to the engine bay.


Well if it means anything to you, jdub recommends using 2000 deg coating and he says that 1300 won't last, or something along those lines.

That sir, is a true statement ;)


VHT is 1500 degrees not 2000, maybe intermittently. I just ordered some last week. won't get here for another week cause they sold out of the clear coat :aigo:

Also true concerning VHT...there's a very good reason to spec a 2000 deg coating beside problems with adhesion for the 1500 deg coatings. The whole idea is to contain the heat in the exhaust stream...hot exhaust gas maintains velocity, assisting in the efficiency of the system. If you exceed the coating's rating, the thermal barrier is compromised and heat is radiated from the manifold.

[Rennat]

if you cure it, its just as good as ceramic coat, especially when you buy 2 cans to do the turbo, manifold, and heat shields. i think i used an entire can on the hotside of the turbo.

this stuff and a "real" ceramic coat job are just the same, apply, and bake. whats the difference?

[jdub]

There's a huge difference...ceramic is cured at 500 deg for starters. The carrier matrix bonds with the metal it's applied to...even using a bead blaster it is difficult to remove once cured. In addition, metal's are part of the formula...the ceramic I use is a mil spec product originally used to coat jet turbine casings. It uses titanium as part of the ceramic matrix.

Ceramic requires specialized equipment to properly apply and cure. To say a "paint" is anywhere close as good illustrates a basic ignorance of the product and the process. The is no way VHT provides the same thermal barrier a ceramic does ;)

Just in case you don't know...I have been coating with various ceramics for years.

[Rennat]

i just know that i got some stuff done, and they had a new guy working there and because the pieces were cast, he didnt bake em long enough, and the inside flaked...

and the main reason i sprayed mine was because i HATE that rusty poop red/brown color of the exhaust manifold and turbo.

[jdub]

You have to have a competent tech applying ceramic...the metal has to be absolutely clean. ANY oil, grease, etc will cause it not to bond. The curing temp/time is also very important. I have yet to have a part returned due to the coating losing adhesion or it's thermal properties. Sorry that happened to you, but that does not make VHT "better" or "as good" by any stretch of the imagination. I hope you got your money back.

Like I said...do you want the coating to do something worthwhile or do you want looks ;)

[Rennat]

but i talked to the guy, and they used a ceramic "primer" so to speak... it was a base coat, that they etch afterwards or something, and THEN the spray the black ceramic coat on top of that, so they said its still ceramic coated, just not with color... i didnt care in the end as it was still coated.

my last engine i got a TON of stuff powder coated and ceramic coated FOR FREE! haha. not this motor though... wasnt as lucky.

i just like VHT because it holds up, is easy to apply, and i know its going to last. Im going to measure my manifold and turbo temps though and see if i can get somebody else to post up there temps to see if its really working.

[jdub]

I don't know what he was using, but the ceramics I have experience with do not require a "primer". In fact, that would interfere with the bond to the metal surface.

BTW - you never want to ceramic coat the exterior of a head or an engine block. The heat retention would be a very bad thing ;)

[Rennat]

thats what i thought... but the place has been in business for like 30 years, and they do this one shops drag car, so i didnt really question it...

it was on my friends car anyways.

just wondering though... how much would you want for..

Turbo cold side and hot side
exhaust manifold
heat shields

maybe the lower and upper intake manifold?

[IwantMKIII]

VHT, does not require a primer. however in regaurds to your previous statement about curing Jdub, VHT reccomends a series of heat treatments ranging from 200*F to 1000*F. It increases its resistance to other chemicals. W/o the curing process, supposedly its resistance is minimal. I know why this is, i just am not sure the specs on it or its actual tolerances vs. a real ceramic coating.

[IJ.]

VHT, does not require a primer. however in regaurds to your previous statement about curing IJ, VHT reccomends a series of heat treatments ranging from 200*F to 1000*F. It increases its resistance to other chemicals. W/o the curing process, supposedly its resistance is minimal. I know why this is, i just am not sure the specs on it or its actual tolerances vs. a real ceramic coating.

I didn't "state" anything ;)

[Rennat]

LOL. and go read the back of the can..


its in 200, 300, and 400 degree temps. where the hell are you going to get an oven thats going to heat an object to 1000 degrees?

OR

you can heat cycle the engine... run for 30mines, let cool down, run for 30mins let cool down, and then run it again i believe.

[IwantMKIII]

I didn't "state" anything ;)


LOL, corrected. I get you two mixed up sometimes at a quick glance from the J's and the red names

[IwantMKIII]

LOL. and go read the back of the can..


its in 200, 300, and 400 degree temps. where the hell are you going to get an oven thats going to heat an object to 1000 degrees?

OR

you can heat cycle the engine... run for 30mines, let cool down, run for 30mins let cool down, and then run it again i believe.


Looking for where i read that at....

Edit: Straight off of Jegs website, along with several others.

Curing: VHT FlameProof coatings will air dry in 15 to 30 minutes and, if handled with reasonable care, may be put to immediate use. Heat curing method for maximum resistance to solvents, salt spray, humidity, thermal shock and heat:

15 minutes at 250°F
30 minutes at 600°F
1 hour at 800°F
30 minutes at 1,000°F
On non-traffic surfaces and where solvent resistance is not required, VHT FlameProof coatings may be used as air-dried. Curing may be accomplished by the inherent heat of operation such as encountered in engine manifolds and exhausts, boilers, heaters, etc. or by following the curing instructions below. ALL CURING SHOULD BE DONE SLOWLY.

[jdub]

I believe that is incorrect...here is what a coating site has to say about curing VHT:
http://www.cacustomcoatings.com/vhtflco.html

The highest curing temp is 600 deg F...that is above the max temp most home ovens can attain.
There is a curing option for on the car that is a bit more specific ;)

This product actually looks to be a decent alternative to keep exhaust parts from rusting...I doubt it has the same thermal properties as a true ceramic. The process for prep'ing is similar as well...one thing I do with a piece that's got oil contamination on the surface is bake it at 400 degs for half an hour, then bead blast. If oil is still present, do it again. Works really well on cast parts.

[Rennat]

the maint point for me was the rust blocker. haha. and it holds up to the heat, so i figured why not...

and this is DIRECTLY from a can of VHT flame proof:

OFF the vehicle

bake at 250 for 30minutes then let cool for 30 minutes
bake at 400 for 30minutes then let cool for 30 minutes
bake at 600 for 30minutes then let cool for 30 minutes

ON the vehicle

run at idle for 10minutes then let cool for 20minutes
run at idle for 20minutes then let cool for 20minutes
run at operating conditions for 30minutes

the paint can hold 1300 and 2000 intermentily, which is pretty good for a "rattle can"
i cant find where it lists the ingredients... but yeah.

[Zumtizzle]

Ceramic Coat or Bust.

[IJ.]

LOL, corrected. I get you two mixed up sometimes at a quick glance from the J's and the red names

I'm the better looking one ;)

[IwantMKIII]

I'm the better looking one ;)


lmao :biglaugh:, any rebuttal Jdub?

[92nsx]

Ceramic coating is the only way. I have tryed the 2000 degree paint and after one run it looked like ass, started to peal, flake, fade. Ceramic coating will give you the best results, as for coloring a exhaust manifold.

[IwantMKIII]

Ceramic coating is the only way. I have tryed the 2000 degree paint and after one run it looked like ass, started to peal, flake, fade. Ceramic coating will give you the best results, as for coloring a exhaust manifold.


one, was this VHT paint?

Two, how did you prep the surface of the manifold?

Three, was this a clear coat or one of the colors they have?

Four, are you sure is was a "flameproof" series

[Rennat]

i put it on an exhaust manifold that was 'less than clean' and it went on just fine and STUCK. maybe you bought the wrong shit... cause this stuff is pretty good for what it is.

i soaked my manifold in CLR and then wire brushed it all off so it was clean as a whistle! same thing with the hotside of the turbo... both were looking very nice and shiny. you have to shoot a lot of light coats until you build up a base of the paint on the material or else it starts to run and look like ass.

[IwantMKIII]

you have to shoot a lot of light coats until you build up a base of the paint on the material or else it starts to run and look like ass.


absolutely

Edit: FYI, Autozone just recently started carrying VHT flameproof. However they don't carry the Clear coat for whatever reason?

[Adjuster]

If you want to try and coat you own exhaust manifolds, and hot sides... Go here, and get the right stuff from the start.

Techlinecoatings.com

Here is the exhaust coatings page.. Read up on this stuff, apply like they tell you, and enjoy. :)
http://techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm

The only other thing I have to add is do not use glass bead to prep your metal. It does not leave the right tooth, and can lead to adheasion issues.

Use Aluminum Oxide. I reccomend 125grit, and so does Techline.. I've used 75, and it was too agressive.. (Actually, the powdercoater screwed up, and the place he used had 75 grit, and WAY more air pressure than was needed. talk about metal erosion...)

In my blast cabinet, I use 125 grit Aluminum Oxide, and about 90psi.. So it strips really well, but you have to keep the gun moving all the time, or you can errode the part.

I've also coated with many of Techline's products, including the Thermal Dispersant, and many thermal barrier coatings, along with the piston crown thermal barrier. (Which makes an excellent combustion chamber coating, exhaust valve coating, and exhaust runner coating.. The thermal dispersant is great for the block, head, oil pan and pretty much anything that has oil in it, and transfers heat to the air flowing over/around it.)

When applied right, they do not flake, chip or come off, even when put into a sonic cleaner in the case of pistons with Thermal Dispersant on the underside, Thermal Barrier on the crown, and molydisulfied on the skirts.. Pretty impressive that this stuff held up to 15min in the sonic tank with hot solvent being washed over it along with thousands of soundwaves per second...

I've used the VHT flameproof coatings, and while they are pretty good for a rattlecan, they are not like the coatings you can get from Techline.. (Techline sells to many of the coatings shops around the country... )

You can buy directly from them, and apply them yourself..

[Rennat]

i had that ceramkrome stuff on my last exhaust manifold, and that shit WORKS. too bad was the shinyest thing in the engine bay... didnt care for it too much, but when you get a 150 coating for free, i never mind.

[quake]

here is my hks manifold i used the vht paint on my turbo housing and the mani for looks. My egt temps are 780c or 1436f at the outlet of the head. The coating from the paint will stay on, but you must take care not to get it dirty when touching it almost like a primer.




http://www.supramania.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19781&d=1202602189

[nosechunks]

you guys ever hear of swain tech?

http://www.swaintech.com/

[Adjuster]

Swain does their own coatings, they do not buy from Techline from what I know.. However, they do have some coatings they have developed that are pretty interesting based on their claims. (The Ti based skirt coating for example.)

Swain also can spray molten metal on parts, and restore them to the right size after machine work is completed. Very cool option for something that is rare, or can't be repaired any other way. (And can't be replaced.)

The downside is they are not a "do it yourself" option. (However, if your going to pay to have parts coated, they would be one of my first choices.)

[Nick M]

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=341&cat_key=52&prodname=7MGTE+Supra+Cast+Turbo+Manifold

Anybody know of their quality? It looks ok. In fact, it looks like the old HKS standard manifold. Yes they had one, besides the tubular. I am not too worried about max power. This is a consideration, to go with a GT series based turbo.