Engine management... what to use W/ 1JZ

[Prettyazznouka]

I have a stock 1jz sc300, w58, walbro, centerforce clutch, stock inj

Im planning on either going with a xs power kit. Or this other kit I found on ebay thats pretty complete. I would need to get a manifold for 1jz and a dp. Im leaning towards the ebay kit tho, cheaper, has ic piping, turbo timer, boost controller, ect

My question is what kind of management should I go with? NO im not goin with AEM too exp and Im not lookin for crazy numbers. Lookin to start at 350 and work up from there.

What to use?
SAFCII , Emanage, or the new AEM ignition controller

any others i missed...

[tissimo]

The AEM F/Ic or whatever looks pretty interesting.

Afc and emanage are tried and true.

[250sx]

AFC will be enough for your setup.

[The Reaper]

yea i'd go AFC or maybe even EMB. im not to sure about the F/IC on our cars.

[Prettyazznouka]

So if afc is all i need how come when I go to a speed shop they always push for me 2 get the AEM. Even with the stock setup theyre like oh get a AEM.

[driftking786]

everyone knows how to tune the aem. i got a stinger with a completely stock motor an i have 296whp and 294wtq 3" all the way:evil2:

[meet07]

they probably tell you to go aem b/c aem is the best.

[lagged]

map ecu 2.

[Prettyazznouka]

I see.... AEM is $$$ tho.... Ill go AEM on my next project.

What would be the advantage of using EMANAGE as opposed to AFC isnt EMANAGE a step closer to standalone?

[drewgo]

I say it over and over again..... SAFC.... I am pushing 468rwhp with it & room to grow If I so choose(which I am iching already). AEM? cuz it puts $$ in their pockets. I make more power with my stock ecu & an SAFC 2 then most poeple make with their standalone....NUFF Said!

[rakkasan]

they probably tell you to go aem b/c aem is the best.

LOL, I think not. Every reseller recommends AEM because they'll make a shit ton of money. Stinger isn't 'the best', but you aren't going to take it in the ass buying one. It will do more than what's needed for all but 0.005% of the SM members.

Sheep....

[empera]

I say go with the Stinger, theres tons of resources here on SM that use it and can help you out with it. Unlike the AEM (i should know).

[rakkasan]

What would be the advantage of using EMANAGE as opposed to AFC isnt EMANAGE a step closer to standalone?

No more worry of stock ECU failure, TOTAL control of your motor. Emanage is a glorified (but good) AFC. I ran one for a while, and was happy with it, but stand alone is rather cool. It takes a while (or it did for me) to work out some bugs, but there is definitely more power to be had. I'm still working on my cold starts, but all in all, it's worth it....

[rakkasan]

I say go with the Stinger, theres tons of resources here on SM that use it and can help you out with it. Unlike the AEM (i should know).
Plus, with AEM, you have to invest another shit load in sensors. Stinger uses all stock sensors. Plug-n-play with a harness from Aaron too. Hard to beat that.

[driftking786]

yup im running stinger just cold start problems a few bugs but well worth it imho. it serves its purpose very easy to use.cheap for a standalone. and as rakkasan and empera said thers a shit load of resources, almost anyone with a stinger can help. except me im still learning got it 2 weeks ago and love it.and looks cool.......its blue:biglaugh:

[Jostar]

I say it over and over again..... SAFC.... I am pushing 468rwhp with it & room to grow If I so choose(which I am iching already). AEM? cuz it puts $$ in their pockets. I make more power with my stock ecu & an SAFC 2 then most poeple make with their standalone....NUFF Said!



I made 422 hp at 20 psi on stock twins with a AEM ems, BPU mods on my 1jz, I decided to spend my money on the ems cause i got tired of stock ecus taking a dump on me, But if you are only looking for 350 hp on a nice decent single & afc & drewgo has proven it i say go for it.

[250sx]

I made 422 hp at 20 psi on stock twins with a AEM ems, BPU mods on my 1jz, I decided to spend my money on the ems cause i got tired of stock ecus taking a dump on me, But if you are only looking for 350 hp on a nice decent single & afc & drewgo has proven it i say go for it.

There is also a truck down here with a 1J tuned with an AFC making 580rwhp on 93 octane.

stock 1j, t70 turbo, and fuel.

[tlo86]

map ecu 2.

+2, i actually cant decide between 1 or 2, what would suite my needs more heh.

they want you top use aem because... there is a lot of money in it for them hehe.

[OneJoeZee]

So if afc is all i need how come when I go to a speed shop they always push for me 2 get the AEM. Even with the stock setup theyre like oh get a AEM.

Because they're trying to sell you something expensive.

Yes AEM EMS > AFC

But AEM costs a lot more than an AFC too.

For a mild setu, you will be fine with an AFC.

[rakkasan]

I make more power with my stock ecu & an SAFC 2 then most poeple make with their standalone....NUFF Said!

LOL, I can't say I agree with that. I make 470+ with a 62mm/.58 A/R with my Stinger that's running way too rich (10.2 AFR). Before I swapped, I had a good tune and could only hit 427whp. What size, in mm, is your inducer?

[rakkasan]

yup im running stinger just cold start problems a few bugs but well worth it imho. it serves its purpose very easy to use.cheap for a standalone. and as rakkasan and empera said thers a shit load of resources, almost anyone with a stinger can help. except me im still learning got it 2 weeks ago and love it.and looks cool.......its blue:biglaugh:

I'm begining to think that my issues are spark plug related. I'm running NGK 6097's, but I think that they're too hot. I'm going to try iridiums and see what happens....

[soapra]

AEM works with all stock sensors. The need for the aftermarket sensors is based on higher resolution. The AEM has knock control. You can't beat that for the price. The support is big for the AEM. AEM box has iddle speed control and it's by far the only box aside from HKS FconV pro that will work like stock. The price on AEMs boxes has come down with all the extra sensors to the low 1,500's; with Boost control selenoid, 3.5 bar map sensor and the air intake temp sensor. If you conpare apples to apples, the EMS that compares to the AEM box is the 8860 from the same company that made the stinger, and you still don't have knock control.


IMHO, the stinger shouldn't be used in fully built engines, there is to much money in your engine and it should get the best EMS for the money and I think that EMS is the AEM box.

[soapra]

LOL, I can't say I agree with that. I make 470+ with a 62mm/.58 A/R with my Stinger that's running way too rich (10.2 AFR). Before I swapped, I had a good tune and could only hit 427whp. What size, in mm, is your inducer?


Mark, my AFCneo allowed me to make 433 Hp with 435 rwtq. If I had 550's I could of made 500 easy! I made that power with only 440's and everything else stock. The stinger is a good box, but I have reached the limits of the stinger and have seen the drawbacks of using it. I can't stress how important having that knock control is.

[rakkasan]

Mark, my AFCneo allowed me to make 433 Hp with 435 rwtq. If I had 550's I could of made 500 easy! I made that power with only 440's and everything else stock. The stinger is a good box, but I have reached the limits of the stinger and have seen the drawbacks of using it. I can't stress how important having that knock control is.

What size inducer? Going from 427whp (at 11.8 AFR) with EMB to 478whp (10.2 AFR) with stand alone isn't a good jump? What are the draw backs of Stinger? I haven't identified them yet. Well, other than nailing the cold settings down that is....

[Jostar]

AEM works with all stock sensors. The need for the aftermarket sensors is based on higher resolution. The AEM has knock control. You can't beat that for the price. The support is big for the AEM. AEM box has iddle speed control and it's by far the only box aside from HKS FconV pro that will work like stock. The price on AEMs boxes has come down with all the extra sensors to the low 1,500's; with Boost control selenoid, 3.5 bar map sensor and the air intake temp sensor. If you conpare apples to apples, the EMS that compares to the AEM box is the 8860 from the same company that made the stinger, and you still don't have knock control.


IMHO, the stinger shouldn't be used in fully built engines, there is to much money in your engine and it should get the best EMS for the money and I think that EMS is the AEM box.


I totally agree with you, I saved my ass off to run the AEM, was it worth it???
yes!

[Prettyazznouka]

So in my case.... SAFC should be just fine since im not planning on keeping the car much longer and it wouldnt make sense to dump a extra 1500 for the box. Next project car involves 2jz :naughty:

[macjac69]

I'm begining to think that my issues are spark plug related. I'm running NGK 6097's, but I think that they're too hot. I'm going to try iridiums and see what happens....

You oughta PM Suprahero about his spark issues, he running iridiums.
By the way where are you stationed? Nothing going on here at CSJFTC.

[cbutler]

Mark, my AFCneo allowed me to make 433 Hp with 435 rwtq. If I had 550's I could of made 500 easy! I made that power with only 440's and everything else stock. The stinger is a good box, but I have reached the limits of the stinger and have seen the drawbacks of using it. I can't stress how important having that knock control is.

Everything else stock??
What turbo set up?

[tissimo]

LOL, I think not. Every reseller recommends AEM because they'll make a shit ton of money. Stinger isn't 'the best', but you aren't going to take it in the ass buying one. It will do more than what's needed for all but 0.005% of the SM members.

Sheep....

I think with the stinger you get it in the ass.. 1000 and has only 1/4 of what the aem has why not spend 400 more for something that has much more power.

sub 500whp afc + stock ecu is perfectly fine. You'll gain some wiht a standalone but nothing major. beyond 500whp the standalone starts to seperate its self from the stock ecu + piggy back quiet a bit.

[rakkasan]

I think with the stinger you get it in the ass.. 1000 and has only 1/4 of what the aem has why not spend 400 more for something that has much more power.

Again I ask, what does AEM offer that I need that Stinger doesn't? That's the nuts and bolts here....

[tissimo]

Again I ask, what does AEM offer that I need that Stinger doesn't? That's the nuts and bolts here....

I'd have to look at the software again, but iirc, a nitrous map (/meth map), boost control, antilag/2 step, knock control, various user switches and inputs.

[tlo86]

Again I ask, what does AEM offer that I need that Stinger doesn't? That's the nuts and bolts here....


AEM works with all stock sensors. The need for the aftermarket sensors is based on higher resolution. The AEM has knock control. You can't beat that for the price. The support is big for the AEM. AEM box has iddle speed control and it's by far the only box aside from HKS FconV pro that will work like stock. The price on AEMs boxes has come down with all the extra sensors to the low 1,500's; with Boost control selenoid, 3.5 bar map sensor and the air intake temp sensor. If you conpare apples to apples, the EMS that compares to the AEM box is the 8860 from the same company that made the stinger, and you still don't have knock control.


IMHO, the stinger shouldn't be used in fully built engines, there is to much money in your engine and it should get the best EMS for the money and I think that EMS is the AEM box.

the 8860 costs a lot more than the AEM from what i remember (or i converted the austrailian currency wrong) and it was similar in specs but like soapra said it doesnt have that knock control

http://www.emsnorthamerica.com/8860.htm
(remember this is the 8860 http://www.emsnorthamerica.com/ecu_specifications.htm comparison between stinger and 8860)
http://aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=62

and in the details the aem seems to offer more features etc

[soapra]

What size inducer? Going from 427whp (at 11.8 AFR) with EMB to 478whp (10.2 AFR) with stand alone isn't a good jump? What are the draw backs of Stinger? I haven't identified them yet. Well, other than nailing the cold settings down that is....

Mark I did it with my HKS pea shooters :biglaugh:


When trying to set the cold setting on the Stinger, do you bump up the timming to try to make it iddle? I'm trying to find out one thing and it may have to do with that. Can't say just yet but I will get to the end of this soon.

[rakkasan]

Mark I did it with my HKS pea shooters :biglaugh:


When trying to set the cold setting on the Stinger, do you bump up the timming to try to make it iddle? I'm trying to find out one thing and it may have to do with that. Can't say just yet but I will get to the end of this soon.

I bumped the timing down to 4 degrees during start up, which helped a lot. I can get it started, but I have to let it idle for a minute or two before I touch the throttle or it will die immediately. I'm still having trouble when it's 35 degrees or colder....

[rakkasan]

I'd have to look at the software again, but iirc, a nitrous map (/meth map), boost control, antilag/2 step, knock control, various user switches and inputs.

No need to research, I believe you are correct. None of the above features will ever be used on my car, nor on a vast majority of the members of SM.

That's the point I'm trying to hammer home. 99% of the time, when someone asks advice about what to buy, the answer he/she is given is the most exspensive option. My needs are met Stinger, as would be 99.99% of the other members here. Can I have gotten more for more money spent? Absolutely, but it would have been a waste.

[Bigzavs]

even tho alot of the local guys in dfw are using aem (and were pushing me to get it) and weve got some amazing local tuners for it, i dont think ill ever need some of the stuff that the aem can do, both the aem and stinger have been proven to work great on these cars, and if i was going for more than 600hp i probably woulda just gotten the aem. for my goals im pretty sure the stinger is going to work for me.

but to the OP, if your only goin for 350whp, an afc will be more than enough for that power

[tissimo]

No need to research, I believe you are correct. None of the above features will ever be used on my car, nor on a vast majority of the members of SM.

That's the point I'm trying to hammer home. 99% of the time, when someone asks advice about what to buy, the answer he/she is given is the most exspensive option. My needs are met Stinger, as would be 99.99% of the other members here. Can I have gotten more for more money spent? Absolutely, but it would have been a waste.

I guess if you're not going to use the features then yea, its pointless to spend the extra money even though the features are quiet useful. But then why not just get megasquirt which is 1/2 the cost of Stinger and does eveything you and the vast majority of SM members need.

[suprahero]

I like my Stinger as well. I don't have any way of comparing it to the AEM because I've never owned one. I'm sure it is a great product as well, but the Stinger seems to do everything that I need it to do.

Jose, how does this knock detection work? Does it cut the car off when it detects it, or are you having to watch another gauge, or does it retard the timing like the stock ecu? I'm just curious. I've been wondering how I can install a guage or something that will tell me about my knock. I have the SAFCII still installed, but the knock sensor has never been hooked up to it. The knock correction always reads zero on the SAFCII.

[rakkasan]

But then why not just get megasquirt which is 1/2 the cost of Stinger and does eveything you and the vast majority of SM members need.

I'm electrically impaired. That wouldn't be a smart move for me....

[Jostar]

I like my Stinger as well. I don't have any way of comparing it to the AEM because I've never owned one. I'm sure it is a great product as well, but the Stinger seems to do everything that I need it to do.

Jose, how does this knock detection work? Does it cut the car off when it detects it, or are you having to watch another gauge, or does it retard the timing like the stock ecu? I'm just curious. I've been wondering how I can install a guage or something that will tell me about my knock. I have the SAFCII still installed, but the knock sensor has never been hooked up to it. The knock correction always reads zero on the SAFCII.

The knock detection on my AEM, i believe is disconnected, Sound performance didn't really need it, Alot of high horse power tuners don't need it.

[Prettyazznouka]

question.... is the safc1 and 2 that different from each other? Is there any particular advantage of getting one over the other?

[tissimo]

safc2 has 12 points of tunning vs the safc1s 8 points.. the afc2 also has the ability to store 2 different maps files.

[Prettyazznouka]

so the safc2 would be a better buy? Or what about the NEO?

[jza71]

Apexi Power-FC

Plug in and drive away, stock map already loaded on.

[OneJoeZee]

so the safc2 would be a better buy? Or what about the NEO?

I have an AFC2 black if you wanna buy one.

[bigaaron]

The knock detection on my AEM, i believe is disconnected, Sound performance didn't really need it, Alot of high horse power tuners don't need it.

Exactly, if you have to rely on knock dectection for a safe tune, then something is wrong with the tune or the engine/fuel setup.

[tissimo]

Exactly, if you have to rely on knock dectection for a safe tune, then something is wrong with the tune or the engine/fuel setup.

The safety feature is nice, but yea dont rely on it for a tune. But helps keep your engine healty. Logging the knock sensors is a great tool though. You can easily street tune your setup with it.

[Jostar]

Exactly, if you have to rely on knock dectection for a safe tune, then something is wrong with the tune or the engine/fuel setup.



Alot of high horse power tuners don't even use the knock sensors, One of my friends with a evo II runs a Autronic ems & doesn't use the knock sensors, He hasn't blown any motor yet & has ran a best of 10.24 @ 142mph... Oh & that's with a master power T-70.

[bigaaron]

I have a knock sensor, actually I have two...... MY EARS!
Knock sensing is retroactive. If it detects knocking, it's because it's already knocking.

[Jostar]

I have a knock sensor, actually I have two...... MY EARS!
Knock sensing is retroactive. If it detects knocking, it's because it's already knocking.


Knock Knock!! :biglaugh:

[tissimo]

I have a knock sensor, actually I have two...... MY EARS!
Knock sensing is retroactive. If it detects knocking, it's because it's already knocking.

there is very slight knock that you'd never hear, but the knock sensor does..

Its just an extra tool to help get the job done.. do you need it, no.... is it usefull, imo yes..

[hottscennessey]

Only thing I wish was different about the stinger is more aux inputs/outputs. Other than that I love the interface, and the simplicity.


I guess if you're not going to use the features then yea, its pointless to spend the extra money even though the features are quiet useful. But then why not just get megasquirt which is 1/2 the cost of Stinger and does eveything you and the vast majority of SM members need.

Only reason I didn't use the MSII, and it may seem like a dumb reason.. I couldn't find an answer to if the MSII could read the CPS. I didn't want to fool with a trigger wheel.

[bigaaron]

Megasquirt is more like a high school science project then a standalone engine management system for your car.

[figgie]

MoTeC here, what is a KNOCK sensor? Oh you mean one of those thing to detect an event that has already taken place ;)

Knock sensors are worthless above 4500 rpm anyway, right when you are about to go into peak power production. To much engine noise to contend with.

[soapra]

The knock detection on my AEM, i believe is disconnected, Sound performance didn't really need it, Alot of high horse power tuners don't need it.

I Agree with you, but those guys are Running VP import or C16 or higher right? Most of us run on 93 or 91, at that octane level and higher boost, im sure you would like your investment to be protected by everything gizzmo possible.

By the time you hear knock, the engine has already seen detonation or pinging.

[Krister]

No more worry of stock ECU failure, TOTAL control of your motor. Emanage is a glorified (but good) AFC. I ran one for a while, and was happy with it, but stand alone is rather cool. It takes a while (or it did for me) to work out some bugs, but there is definitely more power to be had. I'm still working on my cold starts, but all in all, it's worth it....

Can Emanage raise the rev limiter and adjust the timing?

[Krister]

Apexi Power-FC

Plug in and drive away, stock map already loaded on.

Discontinued, otherwise I'd buy it in a heart beat.

[csnow]

Can Emanage raise the rev limiter and adjust the timing?

No piggyback can raise the rev limiter. To raise the rev limit, you need a Mines, Gforce, or other reflashed ECU. Some piggybacks have timing control like the MAP ECU 2, and I believe the emanage ulitmate does as well. From what I have read, the timing control on the piggybacks is not very good.