Any alternative markings to do cam gear timing with???

[IwantMKIII]

I did my timing last night the best i could. The plate behind the cam gears i no longer have, i bought the car without it. When I went to do timing i simply lined them as straight upwards as i could. There are 18 notches from before my exhaust cam line to right before my intake cam mark. I know there should be markings underneath the cam covers but im trying to avoid that obviously, is there anything else i can line them up with to double check or am i pretty much screwed on this one?

[jdub]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.

[dugums]

I usually check for TDC using a chopstick through the spark plug hole. Then you can check the intake cam to make sure you are on the right cycle.

It's probably best to get a plate though - somebody who is parting out probably has one for cheap.

[ForcedTorque]

Send me your address, and I'll ship you the plate!

[IwantMKIII]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.


Too late, lol, runs fine...so far.....what are the big problems if i run it off a couple notches or so?

[IwantMKIII]

I usually check for TDC using a chopstick through the spark plug hole. Then you can check the intake cam to make sure you are on the right cycle.

It's probably best to get a plate though - somebody who is parting out probably has one for cheap.


Everything is on the correct cycle...just need to fine tune is all.

[dugums]

Everything is on the correct cycle...just need to fine tune is all.

Well, that's all the markings on the plate tell you. There's nothing the plate is going to show you to help you "fine tune" anything.

What are you trying to accomplish?

[jdub]

Too late, lol, runs fine...so far.....what are the big problems if i run it off a couple notches or so?

Are you sure you're a MA enginnering student? Think about what that plate does over the long term and what is under it and what runs across it. It's just not that hard to put one on...especially a free one.

[IwantMKIII]

Are you sure you're a MA enginnering student? Think about what that plate does over the long term and what is under it and what runs across it. It's just not that hard to put one on...especially a free one.

Well i am still a student keep in mind :icon_bigg

TBO i don't know because i've never had one of those plates before so i can't visually see what they do. My only guess besides "fine tuning" the cams better than just eyeing them like me would be protecting the timing belt and prevent any foreign objects from entering into the gear system possibly, ultimately leading to failure. But that only happens if you have the front cover as well:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/756000-756999/756403_50_full.jpg

As you can see i have neither, i bought the car originally without them. I've been driving the car since its rebuild for about 5K miles with no issues. As far as i'm aware many people run without the cam covers with no issues. Am i wrong here?

[IwantMKIII]

Well, that's all the markings on the plate tell you. There's nothing the plate is going to show you to help you "fine tune" anything.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Plate will tell you where the cams should be when the crank is TDC much better than me just "eyeing" it

[7M-fanatic]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.

I always throw that piece of junk away.........

Just make sure you have 18 belt cogs between the cam gear timing marks, and the are symetrical when the crank is at top dead center.
If one looks to be off to one side more than another, you are 1 cog off.

[dugums]

Plate will tell you where the cams should be when the crank is TDC much better than me just "eyeing" it

That's not really true. Using the plate IS just "eyeing" it.

If you put something in the spark plug hole (i.e. a chopstick), it is very easy to feel TDC. The chopstick moves up as you rotate the crank and after it hits TDC, it will start to move down. You just rotate the crank until you get it precisely on TDC and make sure the cam gears are symmetrical.

If anything, this would provide a more accurate location than the timing plate. The timing plate isn't actually part of the system and is therefor less reliable than manually finding TDC. (Though not unreliable).

I have my timing plate - and you should take the offer for the free one - it's a good thing to have.

[jdub]

Well i am still a student keep in mind :icon_bigg

TBO i don't know because i've never had one of those plates before so i can't visually see what they do. My only guess besides "fine tuning" the cams better than just eyeing them like me would be protecting the timing belt and prevent any foreign objects from entering into the gear system possibly, ultimately leading to failure. But that only happens if you have the front cover as well:
As you can see i have neither, i bought the car originally without them. I've been driving the car since its rebuild for about 5K miles with no issues. As far as i'm aware many people run without the cam covers with no issues. Am i wrong here?

Yep...you're wrong. The cam oil seals are behind the plate...the cams are fed oil under pressure through the 1st journal aft of the gear mounts. Oil attracts dirt...not to mention the random drops of oil from the seals going forward under deceleration and hitting the timing belt/gears. Plus running without the front cover risks getting debris in the timing belt. None of the above is good.

Sure...you can run without it. The question is how long and is it smart ;)

BTW - I set DTC exactly the same as above, except I use a stiff plastic tube...never thought of using a chopstick! LOL.



I always throw that piece of junk away.........

Doesn't surprise me...based on some of the other comments made on SM lately. Bet you run a 20W-50 in your motor too ;)

[ForcedTorque]

While I'm at it, I'm gonna send you an alternator bracket too! It's not perfect, but will take that rust rock off the corner of that motor.

[7M-fanatic]

Yep...you're wrong. The cam oil seals are behind the plate...the cams are fed oil under pressure through the 1st journal aft of the gear mounts. Oil attracts dirt...not to mention the random drops of oil from the seals going forward under deacceleration and hitting the timing belt/gears. Plus running without the front cover risks getting debris in the timing belt. None of the above is good.


Look closely at a 7M head......
There is a drain hole between the bearing & the seal.
No pressure build up here...........

I have run for years without that big pice of ballast, in several different 7Ms.
Not one ever had a seal failure, or a seal pop out.
Nada, Zilch, Zero !

[jdub]

Look closely at a 7M head......
There is a drain hole between the bearing & the seal.
No pressure build up here...........

I have run for years without that big pice of ballast, in several different 7Ms.
Not one ever had a seal failure, or a seal pop out.
Nada, Zilch, Zero !


Got news for ya...that "hole" in the front cam saddle is the pressure feed for the cam flowing to the rest of the journals aft through the center of the cam :3d_frown:
7M Oil System Diagram (http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=LU&P=2)

And there are no bearings for any of the cam journals.

STFU unless you know what you're talking about...and I could care less how long you've done this or that. In this case, all it means is that you are lucky. The weight saving for that "big piece of ballast" is a grand total of 8 oz max...if that's the reason you're removing it, well, might want to consider if your priorities are screwed up.

[Nomad707]

running without that plate or a cam timing cover is like walking in iraq with a bomb strapped to your chest.... its only a matter of time before it blows up..

when something small goes in those gears and throws off your timing belt and ruins your gears and maybee your engine..

ive seen it happen.

[7M-fanatic]

Got news for ya...that "hole" is the pressure feed for the cam flowing to the rest of the journals aft through the center of the cam :3d_frown:
7M Oil System Diagram (http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=LU&P=2)


STFU unless you know what you're talking about...and I could care less how long you've done this or that. In this case, all it means is that you are lucky. The weight saving for that "big piece of ballast" is a grand total of 8 oz max...if that's the reason you're removing it, well, might want to consider if your priorities are screwed up.

As Warren Johnson says "OK, here is where I take a punk kid to school"

Drain Hole !
First off, if you knew anything about lip seals, there is not one on the face of the earth that will take more than 10 psi.
If that was an oil feed whole, it would blow out right away.
That is why Toyota put a DRAIN Hole between the front bearing, and the seal.
And for those of you who can't read (or follow an oil flow diagram),
here are some pictures......http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z237/duaxmachine/DSC07051.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z237/duaxmachine/DSC07053.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z237/duaxmachine/DSC07052.jpg

OK, now I wait for the "oh, I guess you were right" comments......

[7M-fanatic]

ive seen it happen.

If there is ever a seal blow-out on a 7M,
it is because you have a worn out engine,
that the crank case vents are plugged,
and the blow-by has no where to go.

Or you have a worn out engine, that your jacking the boost up on,
and the blow-by volume exceeds what can flow through the vents.

So it (crank case pressure) exceeds the limits of the seals.

[IwantMKIII]

While I'm at it, I'm gonna send you an alternator bracket too! It's not perfect, but will take that rust rock off the corner of that motor.


lol, awesome! THANKS! that thing is such an eye sore in my engine bay. I've since that picture cleaned it some and removed some of the rust but most still remains :3d_frown:

[IwantMKIII]

That's not really true. Using the plate IS just "eyeing" it.

If you put something in the spark plug hole (i.e. a chopstick), it is very easy to feel TDC. The chopstick moves up as you rotate the crank and after it hits TDC, it will start to move down. You just rotate the crank until you get it precisely on TDC and make sure the cam gears are symmetrical.

If anything, this would provide a more accurate location than the timing plate. The timing plate isn't actually part of the system and is therefor less reliable than manually finding TDC. (Though not unreliable).

I have my timing plate - and you should take the offer for the free one - it's a good thing to have.


I understand what you're saying. I've done that method of find TDC for a long time now. The problem is the cams moved after the belt was off so it was no longer properly aligned done during the rebuild.

What i'm trying to say is which is more reliable/accurate when setting the cams to TDC points?

A) trying to judge where is exactly the cam should be lined up just by making sure the cam mark is straight up with NO reference points

B) aligning the cams with a factory marked cam cover

[ForcedTorque]

I just read your sig for the first time. That's awesome, and everybody's sig should resemble it. It's almost backwards from most every build here. Great to see that the Turbo is the LAST thing on the list!

[IwantMKIII]

I just read your sig for the first time. That's awesome, and everybody's sig should resemble it. It's almost backwards from most every build here. Great to see that the Turbo is the LAST thing on the list!

Ha thanks. Kinda sucks though at the same time....its been ready for so long im just waiting for extra $$ right now to come in. I think the 57 trim will be fitting for me. My car has been nearly dead even from a dig through 3rd (i missed 4th lol) at about 11-12PSI with a buddies 2000 C5 corvette (auto so me keeping up couldn't be from a bad driver) with intake, corsa exhaust (no headers yet), and its been chipped, so that ct-26 handles well and should be putting me in the 300's untuned for sure. I would assume based on that, the 57GT could easily push me over the 400 mark....i would HOPE anyway.

[dugums]

I understand what you're saying. I've done that method of find TDC for a long time now. The problem is the cams moved after the belt was off so it was no longer properly aligned done during the rebuild.

What i'm trying to say is which is more reliable/accurate when setting the cams to TDC points?

A) trying to judge where is exactly the cam should be lined up just by making sure the cam mark is straight up with NO reference points

B) aligning the cams with a factory marked cam cover

Whoa - I thought you were the one asking for alternative "markings"?!?

Of course the back timing cover is going to help - I never advised against using it.

Even after FT offered you a free one, you said "too late". What am I missing here? :dunno:

YOU are the one who said you wanted another way because YOU weren't running it.

[IwantMKIII]

Whoa - I thought you were the one asking for alternative "markings"?!?

Of course the back timing cover is going to help - I never advised against using it.

Even after FT offered you a free one, you said "too late". What am I missing here? :dunno:

YOU are the one who said you wanted another way because YOU weren't running it.


there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.

The "too late" comment was to someone else when they said something along the lines of "i wouldn't drive the car if i were you" and i already had...hence the "too late" comment.

[jdub]

As Warren Johnson says "OK, here is where I take a punk kid to school"

1st of all Gordon, I'm not a punk kid..not even close. ;)

2nd, The hole I'm talking about is in the saddle...the hole you show is under the cam seal.

3rd, I never said anything about blowing a seal...you did. What I did say is there is oil under pressure behind the cam seals (and there is). There is a relief hole as you so cleverly showed and it is there to prevent an over pressurization of the seal due to oil pressure. It does not take into account crank case pressure.

4th, I also said random drops of oil can leak at this seal and hit the timing gear/belt under deceleration...I guess you're going to tell me the cam seals never leak? Or that oil on a timing belt is just fine?

5th, Like I said...there are no bearings between the cam journals and the saddles. When you said bearing, I assumed you were referring to the feed hole in the saddle. Hence the link to the diagram and the STFU comment.

Perhaps work on your reading comprehension?



If there is ever a seal blow-out on a 7M,
it is because you have a worn out engine,
that the crank case vents are plugged,
and the blow-by has no where to go.

Or you have a worn out engine, that your jacking the boost up on,
and the blow-by volume exceeds what can flow through the vents.

So it (crank case pressure) exceeds the limits of the seals.


So now you're saying the cam seals can blow? I wonder how many folks here turn up the boost and have blow-by from their rings? What would happen to the seals under these conditions if the plate was not in place?

The bottom line on this subject (removing the cam gear back plate), there is not a good reason I can think of for removing it. It was put there for a reason...if anything to keep crap off the seals and oil off the timing belt. I have yet to hear from you, Gordon, any logic for removing it...other than to save 8 oz of weight.

You know Gordon, I've read with amusement over the years your eBay ads selling parts you import from Japan...quite "colorful". On eBay, you can make whatever comments you like...here, just a piece of advice, using the same type of commentary will tend to get you no where...like your recent posts to which GrimJack and IJ responded to. And now you went off on a tangent talking about blowing seals and calling me a "punk kid"...like I need to be schooled about the basics on this engine. It might be a good idea for you to think through why you do something on this motor...and, read the posts a bit better before you respond ;)

[jdub]

there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.


Well, you could degree your cams and get them "dead nuts on" by adjusting your gears...it will be more difficult to do with the engine in the car.

BTW - your were smart to take Forced up on his offer ;)

[7M-fanatic]

You know Gordon, I've read with amusement over the years your eBay ads selling parts you import from Japan...quite "colorful". On eBay, you can make whatever comments you like...here, just a piece of advice, using the same type of commentary will tend to get you no where...like your recent posts to which Grimjack and IJ responded to. And now you went off on a tangent talking about blowing seals and calling me a "punk kid"...like I need to be schooled about the basics on this engine. It might be a good idea for you to think through why you do something on this motor...and, read the posts a bit better before you respond ;)

Oh, did I step on the toes of another forum Guru ??
Oh, help us all if one of the Gurus get proved wrong on anything......

By the way, you act like it.
Age doesn't matter, actions do.

The 'saddle' you speak of is the bearing surface, since it holds a rotating shaft.
Saddles are for cowboys, or to mount a pipe on the wall.
Bearings hold rotating shafts.

I have never seen a 7M cam seal weep oil unless it is overdue for replacement.
If yours do, I suggest you replace them.

You didn't say blown seal, the guy after you did.
But it was all relevant.

You made the snide 'STFU' remark.
And hence the quote by the Professor.

By the way, I do run 20-50 in my engines.
(remember, you started this too)
The drag people went through the light oil BS a few years back.
They found that light oils don't protect nerely enough.
A few more HP is not worth running thin oil,
and the damage they allow under severe conditions.

I await you next face saving remarks,
They are quit entertaining.

[jdub]

I await you next face saving remarks,
They are quit entertaining.


Don't have to...true to form, you're doing a fine job all on your own.

BTW - concerning oil...98% of us don't run drag motors ;)

[7M-fanatic]

BTW - concerning oil...98% of us don't run drag motors ;)

So, what do you do when you want to race someone,
tell them " please wait while I go home and change out my oil. "
Or don't you ever get on that little 60mm throttle of yours ?

[jdub]

Give up Gordon...not gonna bite ;)

[IJ.]

If you're talking about the steel cover the plastic cam belt/pully cover bolts to I wouldn't run a 7M without it.

7M fanatic: You're more trouble than you're worth here have a week off pull this shit again and it's going to be a perm ban.

[dugums]

there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.

The "too late" comment was to someone else when they said something along the lines of "i wouldn't drive the car if i were you" and i already had...hence the "too late" comment.

Good call - I'm not really thinking about the problem completely, and I understand the "too late" comment now.

The cam gears can be properly aligned using a proper straight edge and analyzing the angle of the mark on the gears. There really isn't very fine adjustments to be made - after you have put the pin in the gear and the timing belt on - you should rotate the crank a couple of times to ensure you're not a timing belt tooth off.

I can't think of any other reason for adjustment - but I am dense so forgive me :icon_bigg

[GrimJack]

Give up Gordon...not gonna bite ;)
I will, though.

I don't give a DAMN what you know, what you think you know, and what the actual difference is between the two. The problem here isn't your knowledge or your opinions, it's the fact that strife and conflict follow you around like a puppy.

There is a set of rules that people use to live together without ripping each other's throats out, based on courtesy and respect. Surprise! This set of rules extends to the online world as well.

I'll put out some advice here, even though I'm pretty sure by now that it will be ignored. Learn to attack the problem, rather than the people. Furthermore, be prepared to back up your position with either hard facts or opinion, state which you are using, and accept the fact that few people will put as much weight behind your opinions.

Bottom line is, if you can't get along with the community without causing too much stress - and, I might add, work for the staff - you're gone. I won't be happy about it, but I'll be even unhappier if I have to babysit every post you make and smooth ruffled feathers all the damn time.

[Supracentral]

7M-fanatic will no longer be joining our discussion. I have upgraded his temporary ban to permanent. This isn't because he disagreed with a staff member. It's because he can't show the basic civility and respect that is needed for rational discussion.

Simply put, the guy is picking a fight in every post. I've had quite enough of him and I'm certain everyone else has as well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[IwantMKIII]

New issue:

I've noticed a dramatic increase in water temps. normally im at around 170-190 around town and 120-160 and lower on a faster road at these air temps. Today i was spicing things up a bit at around 210-225 around town. I would assume this is linked to timing.....why? and what should i do to fix it in the mean time?

[jdub]

Could be timing...what do you have yours set at?

What temp thermostat are you running?

Another thing to check is the fan clutch...especially if the temps at highway speed drop to what you're used to seeing.

BTW - the stock ECU looks for 176-210 degs as normal ops temps. Below 176, you are in warm-up enrichment...above 210, the ECU pulls timing.

[IwantMKIII]

Could be timing...what do you have yours set at?

What temp thermostat are you running?

Another thing to check is the fan clutch...especially if the temps at highway speed drop to what you're used to seeing.

BTW - the stock ECU looks for 176-210 degs as normal ops temps. Below 176, you are in warm-up enrichment...above 210, the ECU pulls timing.

Timing is set to stock as best as possible. just waiting on that cam gear plate to align the cams with...

Autometer cobalt guage, full sweep electric. Its surprises me how cold my water temps can get...ive hit below 120 going down a mountain with about 35 degree weather at about 75MPH.

Take notice what RPM's im at, speedometer is about 5-7MPH fast. Temp gauge is just below 140 according to autometer, barely registering on stock gauge:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7473/1215071412hx0.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1215071412hx0.jpg)


I actually got below 120* after going down this mountain:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8909/1215071446zo1.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1215071446zo1.jpg)

[jdub]

Is there a thermostat installed? If so, what temp?

[IwantMKIII]

Is there a thermostat installed? If so, what temp?

Ya lost me here. What would it control?

[jdub]

Hmmm...coolant thermostat?

TSRM Thermostat (http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=CO&P=8)

The way your temps drop at speed is leading me to believe either you don't have one installed or it's stuck open.

[GrimJack]

It controls the temperature that the coolant is allowed into the radiator.

Edit: Beat by jdub! :)

[cuel]

Timing covers are like insurance, kind of. They might not be 100% necessary, but you'd definitely wish you had them if something fell in there(like that harness laying just behind the cam gears ;)). Knowing exactly where the timing marks are for the cams is good, to.

The thermostat controls coolant flow, and thus temperature. It opens at a particular temperature(195 stock, iirc), to let the hot coolant flow out of the motor, and be cooled by the radiator, and lets cooled coolant flow from the radiator to the motor. It also closes at a particular temperature(not sure where that is), to hold coolant in the motor to properly absorb heat before flowing back through the radiator. Sounds like yours is stuck.
Timing can effect temps, but you'd notice other symptoms as well, as it would have to be a good bit off. Slight stumble if you blip the throttle is a good indicator of being a tooth off.

Edit: Damn, beat by both!

[IJ.]

Missing undertray and plastics?

[IwantMKIII]

Hmmm...coolant thermostat?

TSRM Thermostat (http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=CO&P=8)

The way your temps drop at speed is leading me to believe either you don't have one installed or it's stuck open.


IDK, that's for another day i guess. Likei said though, temps are typically right around the 180 mark around town or heavy/constant throttle. maybe hits 200 under a lot of boost then simply cools to 160-180 depending on temps outside

Edit: can this negatively affect performance?


Timing covers are like insurance, kind of. They might not be 100% necessary, but you'd definitely wish you had them if something fell in there(like that harness laying just behind the cam gears ;)). Knowing exactly where the timing marks are for the cams is good, to.

The thermostat controls coolant flow, and thus temperature. It opens at a particular temperature(195 stock, iirc), to let the hot coolant flow out of the motor, and be cooled by the radiator, and lets cooled coolant flow from the radiator to the motor. It also closes at a particular temperature(not sure where that is), to hold coolant in the motor to properly absorb heat before flowing back through the radiator. Sounds like yours is stuck.
Timing can effect temps, but you'd notice other symptoms as well, as it would have to be a good bit off. Slight stumble if you blip the throttle is a good indicator of being a tooth off. Edit: Damn, beat by both!

I have that, ill hit the throttle and there is almost a slight delay drops barely in RPMS and then raises strong. Typically that hesitation is only while at idle. anywhere else in the RPM range it seems to be fine from what i notice. The engine always did this though, even since the rebuild.....i wont know if its off till i get the cover. All i know is there are 18 notches from BEFORE the exhaust mark to just Before the intake mark. With my aftermarket gears the lines are not exactly in the middle of the tooth.

[jdub]

IDK, that's for another day i guess. Likei said though, temps are typically right around the 180 mark around town or heavy/constant throttle. maybe hits 200 under a lot of boost then simply cools to 160-180 depending on temps outside

Edit: can this negatively affect performance?


Short answer...yes ;)

Like I said, below 176 deg F the ECU will go to warm-up enrichment...you will run rich. Above 210 deg F, the ECU retards timing in an effort to prevent detonation.

You are showing big temp swings...that is not what you usually see. OAT will only affect this to the extent the radiator can get rid of the heat...you are not having this problem. The good news is you are not overheating. I would def check your thermostat...you want one rated at 190 deg. I like Stant Superstats..cut the jiggle valve off before you put it in.

[trydrew]

I like Stant Superstats..cut the jiggle valve off before you put it in.

I'm just curious (not trying to get off topic) but what does the jiggle valve do and why are you recommending to cut it off on the Stant?

[jdub]

I recommend cutting them off on any thermostat for this car. It's there to allow air to pass and exit out the radiator cap. What I've seen is pressure can build up behind the stat, holding it closed...the coolant lines to the CT26 also acts as a bypass to help prevent this. It usually works good, but at times you'll get a random coolant temp spike in the 1st 10 minutes of driving. Using a oil cooled only turbo makes this much more common if you remove/block the coolant lines.

Cutting the jiggle valve off allows a small amount of coolant to always bypass the thermostat...no more pressure build-up. The delay getting to ops temp is very small.

[Supracentral]

I recommend cutting them off on any thermostat for this car. It's there to allow air to pass and exit out the radiator cap. What I've seen is pressure can build up behind the stat, holding it closed...the coolant lines to the CT26 also acts as a bypass to help prevent this. It usually works good, but at times you'll get a random coolant temp spike in the 1st 10 minutes of driving. Using a oil cooled only turbo makes this much more common if you remove/block the coolant lines.

Cutting the jiggle valve off allows a small amount of coolant to always bypass the thermostat...no more pressure build-up. The delay getting to ops temp is very small.

My MKIII has two 1/32" holes drilled on either side of the jiggle valve hole (which is also removed). I originally did it because I had an air bubble that I could NOT get rid of no matter what I did. It's added a few minutes to warm up time now that it's cool out, but its not bad.

I had intended it as a temp fix, but my oil temps are dead on, so I never bothered to remove it.

[cuel]

I have that, ill hit the throttle and there is almost a slight delay drops barely in RPMS and then raises strong. Typically that hesitation is only while at idle. anywhere else in the RPM range it seems to be fine from what i notice. The engine always did this though, even since the rebuild.....i wont know if its off till i get the cover. All i know is there are 18 notches from BEFORE the exhaust mark to just Before the intake mark. With my aftermarket gears the lines are not exactly in the middle of the tooth.

Did you have your head and block milled? The stumble is a good sign of the timing belt being out of time one way or another. When you get the cover, set the crank mark where it goes on the bottom cover, with the cams pointed up where you set them, before removing the belt and cam gears. Once you get the plate on and belt installed correctly, see if the stumble is still there. It is possible that enough material has been removed from the head and block to change the distance enough between the cams and crank to effect timing. You should be able to turn the cams back(clockwise?) a degree or 2, with the adjustable gears, to make up the difference. I hope I got that right...

[IwantMKIII]

Did you have your head and block milled? The stumble is a good sign of the timing belt being out of time one way or another. When you get the cover, set the crank mark where it goes on the bottom cover, with the cams pointed up where you set them, before removing the belt and cam gears. Once you get the plate on and belt installed correctly, see if the stumble is still there. It is possible that enough material has been removed from the head and block to change the distance enough between the cams and crank to effect timing. You should be able to turn the cams back(clockwise?) a degree or 2, with the adjustable gears, to make up the difference. I hope I got that right...

I have exact measurements of what was taken off and where, just not here. they are all at school. ill get back to you on that also when the cam cover comes, which again, THANKS FORCEDTORQUE