Do you have the old results

[SupraOfDoom]

that you posted on SM about how much power you gained w/ full exhaust including your DDP? Since SF has no search...

[becauseican]

Yes, I have this one for now, but I will scan the original for a clearer view in the next day or two.

The car was a stock mk3, stock ct turbo, with a 3" exhaust system, 3" testpipe. The red run is with the standard big mouth BIC 3" dp at 10 psi. The blue run is about 20 min later with the only change being the DDP installed, at 11 psi.

http://www.bicperformance.com/pics/ddpdynorun.jpg

[2543arvin]

Thats with a stock turbo supra w/ only your ddp or ddp and the thunder exhaust?

[becauseican]

Details are in above post ^^

[2543arvin]

Well, then I know where I will be getting my next exhaust from then....I will hit you up when I have my money ready so you can build me one.

Thanks,
Brandon

[SupraOfDoom]

Thanks a lot, I had to prove it to some doubters on the alltrac forums... I'm surprised I remembered it so well!

[SupraOfDoom]

They still have a hard time believing it.

Here is their question:
"^And is this dyno plot from the manufacturer of the downpipe? Was it done on a dynojet?

Are there other dyno plots from private owners who have bought this downpipe and shown similar results? "

[SupraOfDoom]

which reminds me, maybe you should market / make ddp's for the alltrac guys. They all have CT-26 cars, although I think they have a different exhaust housing... but you might make some money there as well...

[Dracov]

Personally I'd love a BIC style DDP for the Alltrac. The production numbers on Alltracs were nowhere near that of MkIII's, thus the available selection to choose from is quite sparse so far as pretty much any aftermarket part goes.

As for Alltrac CT26 vs Supra CT26...

The intake housing is clocked ~90 degrees counterclockwise on the Alltrac.
The exhaust housing on the ST165's CT26 is bolt compatible with the Supra's CT26. The ST185's CT26 exhaust housing has a different downpipe bolt pattern (6 studs instead of 4), and uses 2 wastegate ports instead of one.

This page has some more detailed information on the Alltrac's CT26 and some pictures of the exhaust side differences:
http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/turbofaq.html

[becauseican]

They still have a hard time believing it.

Here is their question:
"^And is this dyno plot from the manufacturer of the downpipe? Was it done on a dynojet?

Are there other dyno plots from private owners who have bought this downpipe and shown similar results? "


All the dyno runs were done back to back, within about an hour of each other. I have the burn marks on my arms from swapping the dp's while it was strapped to the dyno!!!. The dyno was a Dyno Dynamics, which usually reads a little lower than a Dynojet. It was done on Vansupra's car here on SM, he will vouch for me........you guys should know me here by now, I dont mess around !!!:bigthumb: There has been a few others that have dynoed around 275-290 whp after installing the DDP.

I will dig up the sheets and scan them, and post some more info.

All I need is an All-trac Celica for a few days in the shop and you guys can have DDP's too. Anyone near Vancouver Canada / Seattle Washington want to donate a car for a prototype???. There is very few of these in Canada, infact I dont think they were even released here.


Which forum was this on?, I would like to take a look.

Randy@BIC

[bowsercake]

Have there been any dyno test comparing the DDP to the rerouted DDP? I'm probably going to end up getting it recirculated anyways.

I was also thinking of getting a recirculated one and making the recirculation pipe removable with a removable block off.

[SupraOfDoom]

All the dyno runs were done back to back, within about an hour of each other. I have the burn marks on my arms from swapping the dp's while it was strapped to the dyno!!!. The dyno was a Dyno Dynamics, which usually reads a little lower than a Dynojet. It was done on Vansupra's car here on SM, he will vouch for me........you guys should know me here by now, I dont mess around !!!:bigthumb: There has been a few others that have dynoed around 275-290 whp after installing the DDP.

I will dig up the sheets and scan them, and post some more info.

All I need is an All-trac Celica for a few days in the shop and you guys can have DDP's too. Anyone near Vancouver Canada / Seattle Washington want to donate a car for a prototype???. There is very few of these in Canada, infact I dont think they were even released here.


Which forum was this on?, I would like to take a look.

Randy@BIC
www.alltrac.net

Here is the thread, I start arguing on page 2 - 3 heh.
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19364

[SupraOfDoom]

^does he know that most downpipes can fit both the Celica and the MR2 Turbo? He'd certainly make more money if he could design it in such a way as to allow the same DDP to fit both cars. As a matter of fact, he may want to make an MR2 version first as thats where the business is.

J.
Sound good? :P

[flubyux2]

has anyone ever done a dyno test on a stock MK3 with your your Bigmouth downpipe, with and without an exhaust?

i have old numbers for the Defcon Downpipe (which i run and swear by) but i dont think ive ever gotten hard numbers for the equivalent BIC part.

[MassSupra89]

Uh, bullshit. They pick up around ~30 at the crank running 8-9 psi with "just" a 3" turbine back exhaust.

No, you won't. You'll get ~8-9 psi on the stock turbo no matter what you do with it. Open exhaust, open downpipe, whatever.

:biglaugh: Haha don't you love ignorance.
I was making 11-12psi with just DDP and 3" Thanks BIC.
Wish I had dyno'd the change, I definetly felt it though.

[SupraOfDoom]

If I remember correctly Randy kinda based his DP off the defcon, but with the divorced section.. so I'd assume it would be all around better...

:biglaugh: Haha don't you love ignorance.
I was making 11-12psi with just DDP and 3" Thanks BIC.
Wish I had dyno'd the change, I definetly felt it though.

I tried to correct as much as I could of his, sadly I've never had one to really verify myself, I just read about most products :P.

[flubyux2]

yeah, you would think that it would be better.

i personally saw a 100rwhp gain on an otherwise stock 88 turbo 5sp back in 2000. then, the Defcon dp with a thermal research catback netted 278rwhp, Very much like Randy's DDP did w/ an exhaust. thats why im very curious about if anyone has documented the same gain or better going to an open DDP over a completely stock/original MK3 5sp.

[SupraOfDoom]

Randy there is now a thread on SF about this lol... so if you want you can straighten people out there as well.

[xscurry]

IMO:

I do not doubt that the DDP produces a significant gain in RWHP. However, there needs to be more than one or two dyno graphs (or somebody saying they saw it) to form an accurate database for the gains. I would say there needs to be dyno graphs for a minimum of 20+ individual cars to form a solid conclusion.

I read the thread on the Alltrac forums and I mostly agree with Simba. Some might not know but he is a well respected member with plenty of experience in Supras. Some of those examples SoD posted are the extremes from the normal results and are not typical. Like it or not, it does not matter what the potential may be but rather the average of the greater population of results/runs shows a more accurate description for a certain set of mods.


i personally saw a 100rwhp gain on an otherwise stock 88 turbo 5sp back in 2000. then, the Defcon dp with a thermal research catback netted 278rwhp....

IIRC Defcon did not begin to manufacture their DPs until 2002 because I was one of the first to purchase one.

[SupraOfDoom]

The problem is, how many companies dyno 20 different cars just to prove the conclusion...

That and the results should be pretty typical on any WELL running healthy 7MGTE, you don't just magically gain power on some 7MGTEs ect.... there isn't really flukes when it comes to power gains.

Again I'd also like to say that they may be extremes, but I never claimed they were a common occurrence ever, I just said they could be done. I even wrote that on alltrac.net, that results have to have optimum conditions....

and I never once said Simba wasn't experienced in Supra's... I remember posts by him on SF along time ago I think.... but what does that matter? In his arguments he just generalized and tried to be insulting ( Which just shows lack of a strong argument ).... that and for everything he doubted I proved him wrong so far.. so what is there to agree with? The guy is old school, and it seems like he isn't willing to accept new information / mods / numbers / times . After showing him EXACTLY what he denied being possible he goes to say well those aren't typical.... that can't be proved any more then they can be proved BEING typical... that is if we don't have some more dyno numbers. SO FAR, DYNO numbers have proved the amount of power claimed... and as far as the drag racing results, they'd be typical too if MKIII owners learn how to drag and have WELL running good condition cars! Everyone makes it seem like we should measure results on cars that are about to frickin die! Test results for performance products should BE tested on optimum conditions to give a idea of what they do IN OPTIMUM CONDITIONS!

All I'm saying is what can and has been done...sigh

[becauseican]

Well, anyone here with a BIC downpipe post your dyno sheets/ results with mod lists!!!! Lets see your numbers.

Randy

[flubyux2]

comparing final dyno numbers from one product to another with variables being everything between the location, conditions, parts, cool down times and dyno types is a crap shoot. but what i was looking at was power gains over baselines made that same event. so whether a stock mk3 put down 240rwhp and then 320rwhp after an open dp isnt so much as a claim to the numbers in general, its just a claim to the gains made over the base line.

but, the numbers i saw put down in 2001 by that test car at Dyno Daves in Michigan was basically just a claim to the difference in power over the 1st run.

i honestly dont remember exactly when that first prototype DP was made, if it was 2000 or 2001. it was either fall of 2000 but more likely to have been in the spring of 2001. i bought my Defcon DP in Winter of 2001 personally. i know this because i came to florida for 2 weeks in the winter of 2001, came back to ohio for Xmas and new years, then moved to florida in jan 2002 for good (been here since) and bought my first MK3 after the move. but when i bought my Defcon DP a week before Xmas of 2001, they were already on the 2nd revision with flex sections. they had already sold a few batches of the 1st style with NO flex to Titan, MVP, Suprasport and Suprastore. and yes, that means i bought parts for a MK3 before i even owned one, im that hard core! lol :naughty: