A340E and HP questions!

[Isphius]

Ok, Ive got my 88 supra, getting a new HG, arp studs, 3 inch exhaust, etc. My main question is, how much will the a340e hold up to, and more importantly, how long? I know the main thing that kills an auto trans is heat and clogged TCs. So I plan on replacing the torque converter, And installing an inline filter and giant B&M trans cooler near the radiator, so it will stay cool but never below operating temperature. Im thinking also keeping OD locked out most of the time will help things, Because a trans going into OD and out all the time generates clutch band heat. Any suggestions here? Also, what rear gear did the stock 88 turbo targa auto come with? It has the sports package and LSD, So does anyone have an idea?

[Nosechunks]

based on my 1/4 mile ET/MPH im running in the ballpark of 290whp, i have a bone stock 170-XXX mile tranny with only the accumulators shimmed and it runs fine. i also have a small cooler in front of the radiator.

do the accumulator shimming, get a big cooler and a thermostat and you should be good for low 13's. if you get a bigger turbo get a 3kstall for like 450, and rebuild it with IPT's blue friction rebuild kit. from what i hear that makes it last alot longer.

[suprarich]

300 hp is a safe number for the stock tranny with cooling help. Heat is not the biggest killer, overpowering your clamping force on the cluch pack, causing them to slip, is the big killer when going over 350 hp on a stock tranny.

[Nosechunks]

you can never have too much clamping force on the clutchpacks. if anything the more the better. heat in the tranny fluid is the biggest killer aside from enough power to break parts or force the clutches to slip.

tranny fluid at 180 degrees F will last about 2-4 times longer then the same fluid in the same tranny at 212 degrees F, or at least thats waht ive herd.

since tranny fluid is what makes the clutches have alot of friction to eachother you want them bieng bathed in good contition proper temprature fluid.

clamping force is what hold the clutches together. not force them to slip.

[jamesdem1123]

yea i dont what kind of power they can hold, all i know is that my a340 was stock, clamped onto a gte with an upgraded turbo, complete 3 inch exhaust and 10 pounds of boost and now 2nd gear doesnt hold on at all, for me to go 50mph requires the engine to stay near 3000 rpms, with OD on!

[plaaya69]

^ That sucks but what engine was your a340 originally from? a 7mge or a 7mgte. I just rebuilt mine for my 87 Turbo Supra at a aamco transmission place about 5 months ago and I drove it home and it shifted very nice after that but I only put about 50miles on it so far because I am rebuilding my JDM turbo motor over the winter.

[Boss302]

talk to onefstsupra89 i think he's making 500 on stock and it isn't having any probs if i remember right

[Nick M]

If you don't do the valve body mod and want to spend some money, this looks like a good place to do it. They do the valve body and strengthen the internals.
http://www.importperformancetrans.com/toyotaauto.shtml

I will be doing it down the road sometime.

[jdub]

I've got an IPT built A340E...pretty happy with it.

[Boost Lee]

320rwhp/362rwtq, non rebuilt, tons of miles on it, shifts smoothly, been like this for about a year....with tons of abuse (Not BASHING it, just taking advantage of it) ;)

Reason it's been holding up this long is because I got a Tranny cooler RIGHT away when putting this tranny in.

Heat KILLS the transmission.

Anywho, I as well, will be going to IPT to rebuild my A340E. :)....
Because I don't think it will withstand the amounts of power I'll be throwing at it soon. :(

Jeff

[jdub]

Heat KILLS the transmission.

Yep! I as well have a tranny cooler with a Spal fan on it running full time.
Also installed a tranny fluid filter ;)

[suprarich]

you can never have too much clamping force on the clutchpacks. if anything the more the better. heat in the tranny fluid is the biggest killer aside from enough power to break parts or force the clutches to slip.

tranny fluid at 180 degrees F will last about 2-4 times longer then the same fluid in the same tranny at 212 degrees F, or at least thats waht ive herd.

since tranny fluid is what makes the clutches have alot of friction to eachother you want them bieng bathed in good contition proper temprature fluid.

clamping force is what hold the clutches together. not force them to slip.

I did not say that too much clamping force is the killer. I said over powering your clamping force is. That means too much power from the motor overcoming the holding capacity of the clutch pack (clamp force). :3d_frown:

[suprahero]

What tranny cooler do you guys reccommend? I dont think Vonda's is going to last long with that new turbo installed. It has just been rebuilt though, but not with an upgraded kit. Her car has my same setup, and I mad 406rwhp on my car, but it was a fivespeed. I'm not real sure her torque converter can handle it.

[jdub]

I'm using a Long's TruCool.

[Nosechunks]

I did not say that too much clamping force is the killer. I said over powering your clamping force is. That means too much power from the motor overcoming the holding capacity of the clutch pack (clamp force). :3d_frown:

whoops. it looked like by saying "overpowering your clamping force" you ment, having too much clamping force. oh well.

[Nosechunks]

I've got an IPT built A340E...pretty happy with it.

are you runing a stall? how high?

how do you think a stock unit will hold up using IPT blue friction clutches and a 3krpm stall?

[jdub]

3000 rpm stall...the Raybestos clutch plates are a significant upgrade. I had the full mod done to the tranny...converter, friction, valve body, etc. It's holding up very well...barks the tires when it hits 2nd ;)

[Isphius]

Whoa, tons of info. That was fast! lol. But yeah, whatever it comes down too, letting the trans get to hot is the easiest way to kill it (besides making more power than the physical parts can actually hold...). Also, like you were saying, clamping force. Older/worn/not taken care of trans fluid clogs up the torque converter, which means the clutch actuators get no pressure, which means they slip, and cause heat, which makes the fluid break down and let everything fall apart. I basically want to eliminate it at the source, the fluid getting hot and the TC getting clogged. Another thing thou, Does the accumulator mod increase the line pressure in the trans? Is that how it makes it shift harder? Or is it just letting the gears engage faster? If so, This would def help the trans last. The harder it shifts, the less its slipping, the less it heats up. Thanks for all the info tho!

[toyo4life]

Rear gears on a 88t are 3.91 with auto or stick. 89t went to 3.73

[toyo4life]

Does any body else have this problem?
My trans takes forever to shift out of 1st or 2nd when the trans is cold. And when it does its a hard shift. once its been driven like 5-10 minutes it shifts fine.
Should I have the trans flushed? It only has 77,000 on it.

[Boost Lee]

If and when I ABSOLUTELY have to leave right away without letting everything warm up, It will hesitate to shift from 2 > 3, but that's for about 5 seconds of hesitation...then it's fine.

As for what tranny coolers we're using, I'm using B&M. :)

Jeff

[Isphius]

next question, will a stock turbo spin wheels off the line, from just idle to punch it, (no powerbraking, etc)??? I just bought a 2.8 v6 camaro for 600$, it spins wheels off the line, and my supra didnt. WTF! it has a bigger motor and a turbo, but there about the same weight and all. Not fair! Anf if a good running stock auto wont spin wheels, at what point will it start to, mod wise?

[Boost Lee]

Your 2.8 Litre V6 Camaro has a higher compression ratio than your Supra.

A typical turbocharged vehicle, coming off the line, given there is no 2-Step, High stall or brake boosting, WILL be doggish off the line.

So...No, a Stock Turbo with an A340E will NOT spin off the line...You might get a chirp...but spinning? Eh-eh. :)

Now...speaking of my car with the 60-1 CT..........Assuming I don't build boost, I come off the line slow enough for a moped to pass me...but it's once I start boosting that I start spinning. :D:D

Turbo Lag - Giving V8's a benefit of the doubt since 1987. :icon_razz

[suprarich]

next question, will a stock turbo spin wheels off the line, from just idle to punch it, (no powerbraking, etc)??? I just bought a 2.8 v6 camaro for 600$, it spins wheels off the line, and my supra didnt. WTF! it has a bigger motor and a turbo, but there about the same weight and all. Not fair! Anf if a good running stock auto wont spin wheels, at what point will it start to, mod wise?

You also have to remember that your camaro is one wheel drive. Another thing is why even worry about spinning the tires. That is so 80's. Spinning the tires just means that you have a lack of traction.

[3p141592654]

Jdub, could you post a few pictures of your cooler/filter setup?

[NeatOman]

v6 = One tire fire!

My moms Malibu WOOPED! a v6 Camaro, then when i got my 88T i beat him without going past 3500rpm by even more.

edit: camero was a 98 auto (i think it has the same engine as the Malibu, 3100)

[Isphius]

You also have to remember that your camaro is one wheel drive. Another thing is why even worry about spinning the tires. That is so 80's. Spinning the tires just means that you have a lack of traction.


How is spinning the tires not cool!! or the 80s!! lol.

[Isphius]

and its not that fast, it wont beat much but it will still spin wheels! not fair!

[suprarich]

When I was 16, I would worry if my 68 ss chevelle would spin the tires further than my buddies gto. Since 15 years ago, all I care about is hooking up and launching a car. Spinning the tires and worrying about if my car will or not spin a tire is right up there with white high top sneakers and 6x9's in the rear dash pad. I have a 6 second nearly 200mph in the 1/4 mile bike, and it will not spin a the tire when I launch. Doesn't make me feel bad for one second. Who cares if a v-6 camaro will spin its one tire or not.

[Isphius]

FYI, the car spins both tires, i checked. You guys just dont get it though. Lol. I have a badass mk3 supra sitting in my driveway, i go to drive it, who cares if it is slow or fast. Its a cool car. If i floor it and it just goes, its just boring. Im not a "numbers" guy, Its all aobut fun factor. I dont care if i make 450 hp or can go 200mph in the quarter while hooking up and never spining a tire. But i guess its just cause of the massive weight and low gear ratio. Like i said about my NA, 4.3 lsd ftw!! But to the more important topic. Just think about it, while not drag racing for time, when was the last time you spun wheels and it wasnt fun!?!?!

[Isphius]

98+ was the 3800 sII, basically a 5.0 tpi v8 cut down to 6. i belive a supra T would smoke one. Its like 200hp and 225 lb ft of torque or something in a 3600 lb car. Not bad, but not good. The 3rd gen had the 2.8 or 3.1(wimpy 60 degree block), and the 93-97 had a 3.8 and a 3.4(90 degree block). Everyone that has a v6 maro thinks its a freakin hotrod, though. So i hate most of the owners. And this is my GFs v6 camaro, so its not really mine, but its still pretty dam cool. There is a 3.4 60 degree block that is a direct swap into the 2.8 car, all the accesories and intakes and stuff. And BTW, i shit stomped an older 305 camaro and a newer 95 or 96 3.4 in my NA supra, so there not fast. lol.




v6 = One tire fire!

My moms Malibu WOOPED! a v6 Camaro, then when i got my 88T i beat him without going past 3500rpm by even more.

edit: camero was a 98 auto (i think it has the same engine as the Malibu, 3100)

[suprarich]

Just think about it, while not drag racing for time, when was the last time you spun wheels and it wasnt fun!?!?!

I also have a 550hp big block impala, it spins the tires so much trying to leave hard from a dead stop that it is annoying. On and off the throttle, or babying it from a stop and then rolling on the throttle. Sure, it fun sliding a car sideways around a corner or whatever, but When I stomp the gas, I want to be set back in the seat and launch. Not sit there and spin. To each their own. Have fun!

[jdub]

3P - Here's a pic of the tranny cooler...it is forward drivers side wheel wheel. The pump output to the cooler is the forward hardline on the tranny...I cut the hard line and routed the stainless steel hoses along the drivers side.

I don't have a pic of the filter...it is a PermaCool filter head installed in the feed line from the tranny to also protect to cooler. I used a PureOne filter for the initial install and changed to a Trasko filter at 500 miles or so. I don't like the current location of the filter under the car...I'm going to re-locate the filter under the AFM and re-route the lines.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/2/3520351646.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4697130)

[3p141592654]

Thanks Jdub. I need to get something better than the factory rad cooler. Did you daisy chain the external cooler with the rad cooler?

[jdub]

I'm using a CSF radiator...no tranny cooler in the rad. But, you could. ;)

[Isphius]

I also have a 550hp big block impala, it spins the tires so much trying to leave hard from a dead stop that it is annoying. On and off the throttle, or babying it from a stop and then rolling on the throttle. Sure, it fun sliding a car sideways around a corner or whatever, but When I stomp the gas, I want to be set back in the seat and launch. Not sit there and spin. To each their own. Have fun!

Haha, i know what your saying. My supra does take off quite well though. It puts you back in the seat pretty hard and its almost stock. Next time i drive it its going to be with a brand new HG and a 3 inch ddp and 3" exhaust with no cat. Im sure i will hit fuel cut now. But, as long as we understand each other with the burnout thing, haha. Also, i want to ride in that impala. Not many people ever get to feel the massive torque of a BBC! I rode in a 69 chevelle with a 396 4 speed and i have been hooked ever since.

[Isphius]

A new question/revival, Does anyone have the 4.3 rear in their auto sup?? Im going to buy a 4.3 NA and maybe swap the rears. Better fuel mileage in the NA and better take off with the auto T.

[Boost Lee]

^Not necessarily.

There's a member on the boards that did 491rwhp with a completely stock A340E...nobody is to say it lasted too long, but it still held it.

Some have failed before 300rwhp, some have made it close to 400rwhp...

It's ALL a matter of how good of shape it's in & and whether or not you have a hefty tranny cooler. :) (Raises hand). ;)

-Jeff

[tookwik4u89]

Thanks Jdub. I need to get something better than the factory rad cooler. Did you daisy chain the external cooler with the rad cooler?
I flushed out a spare stock oil cooler, and I run it inline with the factory/radiator cooler. Where it sits in my bumper, it's right out in open air. I built the trans about 4 years ago, and the fluid still looks new. Granted, I only drive it 6 months out of the year.... But it has seen at least 30-40 drag passes in the summer. I have basically the same setup as jdub.



How the heck did I miss this thread, it's one of my favorite subjects:nono:

[suprarich]

How the heck did I miss this thread, it's one of my favorite subjects:nono:


Slacker!

[Isphius]

cool! good info again! I plan on getting one of those giant B&M truck coolers and just strapping it to the radiator, that way it wont get too cold but still have plenty of overhead if need be. Im basically just gona get the tranny flushed and refilled and a new filter, and run the giant cooler. From what i hear i should be safe. Its basically gona be run off a stock turbo with IC pipes and a e inch turbo back. I expect it to boost right to FCO and make in the high 200s rwhp. I just want the trans to last long enough for me to get the r154 swap parts together! (maybe a year? 2 years)

[Isphius]

Oh, and about that 4.3 in an auto T....

[gtsfirefighter]

Does any body else have this problem?
My trans takes forever to shift out of 1st or 2nd when the trans is cold. And when it does its a hard shift. once its been driven like 5-10 minutes it shifts fine.
Should I have the trans flushed? It only has 77,000 on it.

Mine does the same thing. I don't have a clue why. Anybody?

[3p141592654]

I flushed out a spare stock oil cooler, and I run it inline with the factory/radiator cooler. Where it sits in my bumper, it's right out in open air. I built the trans about 4 years ago, and the fluid still looks new. Granted, I only drive it 6 months out of the year.... But it has seen at least 30-40 drag passes in the summer. I have basically the same setup as jdub.



Tk, do you have a picture of your setup? I have an extra stock oil cooler that I was going to rig like you have done. My original plan was to piggy back it on the existing oil cooler.

[tlo86]

if you upgrade your tranny they are meeaaannn... the most problems i have had with shifting is going from L to 2 to drive... tranny doesnt like it so i stopped doing it...

if you have any trouble with shifting... change the oil and filter. when you drop your pan check where the debris is either in the pan or the magnets in the pan will tell you what kind of wear your tranny is having. in my case everything was black and covered so it was pretty obvious since i couldnt get into any gear it was dead all around :):)

or upgrade cooling...

one of the best options for cooling is to run it through your rad and an external cooler (i bought a b&m cooler real sturdy design). it warms up very quick and stays cool

when i just had my tranny hooked to 1 cooler it would do what you guys said took a while to shift, once i hooked it to radiator and cooler... never again :)

[AlexSmith]

Subscribed for future reference:D

[tookwik4u89]

Tk, do you have a picture of your setup? I have an extra stock oil cooler that I was going to rig like you have done. My original plan was to piggy back it on the existing oil cooler.
I dont have a picture of the setup, and you can't really see it here but its right in the hole outside the pass. fog light. When I had the stock bumper, I had it right in the open air in the front. I put the cooler downstream from the radiator.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/tookwik4u89/IMG_0527.jpg

[3p141592654]

Thanks. Did you plumb it into the stock rad cooler before or after your external cooler?

[tookwik4u89]

Thanks. Did you plumb it into the stock rad cooler before or after your external cooler?
LOL, read my last post again;)

I figured since it would be cooler than the one in the rad, it would be downstream.

[Nosechunks]

from what i hear the tranny wants to be around 180 degrees and thats what i want my motor to be, so using the motor as a constant or almost constant 180 degrees as the last influence on the tranny fluid i believe it would regulate the temprature the best.

i see the radiator as a temprature regulator, if its too cold itll heat it up and if its too hot itll cool it down before it returns to the tranny. so by running it threw the external cooler first it removes all excess heat and gets the fluid to a temprature the radiator can deal with.

Thats why i set mine up to run threw the external cooler first.

maybe im just paranoid. lol i also plan to run 2 coolers. one for oil and one for tranny. both the same size and both as big as i can fit next to each other without overlap in front of the radiator, where the condenser used to be. then run a thermostat for even better regulation of temprature on both the oil and tranny fluid. i guess i am just paranoid....

[3p141592654]

That makes sense to me too. In cool weather it would seem possible to to bring the temp too far down since there is no thermostat.

TK, now I understand the comment on downstream. I was thinking you were talking about the air flow for some reason. :icon_conf

[tookwik4u89]

That may make more sense....maybe I will check temps some day when I'm running it just out of curiosity. I rarely see cool temps, driven in warmer weather mostly, and the track again soon. It's worked so well so far, I doubt I will change it.

[Isphius]

another question while all the auto guys are here....one...my OD light blinks on and off, is this like a CEL for the trans? what does it mean? two...what will a totally stock auto 88 targa top auto do in the quarter mile?

[jdub]

Yep...you have a tranny code:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=AT&Page=13

An auto (equal cars) will usually do better in the 1/4 mile by keeping constant boost. Assuming the tranny is in good shape. Like I said, my auto tranny was built by IPT w/ a 3000 rpm stall. I launch by stepping hard on the brake and run the rpm up to stall speed. Instant boost off the line...best 1/4 mile I've done is 11.87 (my motor is not stock) ;)

[Boost Lee]

Yep...you have a tranny code:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=AT&Page=13

An auto (equal cars) will usually do better in the 1/4 mile by keeping constant boost. Assuming the tranny is in good shape. Like I said, my auto tranny was built by IPT w/ a 3000 rpm stall. I launch by stepping hard on the brake and run the rpm up to stall speed. Instant boost off the line...best 1/4 mile I've done is 11.87 (my motor is not stock) ;)

I had no idea you were pulling that quick of an E.T.

What turbo are you using currently?

-Jeff

***annnnd, Edit: Nevermind, Decided to have a looksie at your profile after responding.***

[jdub]

I'm also using a piggyback tranny controller made by a company called ATK (JDM only) that moves the tranny's shift points. It works pretty well. The plan is to use the latest version of the SupraStick standalone tranny computer...I need to talk to Garret about the ability to integrate with the AEM EMS.

I have the earlier version of the SupraStick, but didn't install it when I found out it doesn't play well with an AEM. There's a work around, but just didn't want to deal with it, plus I got a hold of the ATK to play with. I'll end up selling the SupraStick I have now. I've just got to get the time (wife's "honey do" list keeps getting longer) to get the damn AEM installed.

I'm pretty pleased with the car...spools quick, runs good and plenty fast enough for me ;)

[jdub]

Read carefully Ric ;)


The plan is to use the latest version of the SupraStick standalone tranny computer...I need to talk to Garret about the ability to integrate with the AEM EMS.

I want to make sure...I know there are issues integrating the 1st ver SupraStick (it's a piggback) with the way the AEM outputs rpm/speed signals...it works fine with the stock ECU. I will thoroughly check things out before I buy ;)
Never said the SSV4 had issues with the AEM.

[americanjebus]

from what i hear the tranny wants to be around 180 degrees and thats what i want my motor to be, so using the motor as a constant or almost constant 180 degrees as the last influence on the tranny fluid i believe it would regulate the temprature the best.

i see the radiator as a temprature regulator, if its too cold itll heat it up and if its too hot itll cool it down before it returns to the tranny. so by running it threw the external cooler first it removes all excess heat and gets the fluid to a temprature the radiator can deal with.

Thats why i set mine up to run threw the external cooler first.

maybe im just paranoid. lol i also plan to run 2 coolers. one for oil and one for tranny. both the same size and both as big as i can fit next to each other without overlap in front of the radiator, where the condenser used to be. then run a thermostat for even better regulation of temprature on both the oil and tranny fluid. i guess i am just paranoid....


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5613/dscf3105ch7.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5995/dscf3106sh3.jpg

^ thats what im doing, B&M makes the perfect cooler for it unfortunatly i couldnt find a different thermostat for it, it engages at 176F and turns off at 146F so the average temp in the tranny should be approximatly ~180F. Im hoping the fan will be strong enough to pull the incoming air down through the cooler and i can create a lower pressure area for the air to escape.

I too plan on running the external oil cooler before piping back into the radiator but im wondering about the temps in the radiator on a dyno when i tend to boil over.:icon_conf

[Nosechunks]

i think it would be better to place them directly infront of the radiator, for my application its pretty big and open there because i took the a/c out. also the fan behind the radiator would also supply the coolers with constant airflow. i figure i could run a 10ish by 20ish where i want to for each. maybe a little smaller, never really looked into it becasue i didnt have the money and had other priorities. would you have airflow problems to that with the bumpercover and suport on? seems like it would be directly behind it.

also just because theres a thermostat doesnt mean it will regulate it like the radiator would. the thermostat in my eyes is only good for cold start because it will bypass the cooler till the fluid reaches operating temprature. Also with a thermostat the thermostat is before the cooler, so when the thermostat sees the fluid it might see it as 300 and full flow threw the cooler. it could go threw the cooler and come out at say 100 degrees (its really efficient) and that would be overcooling even though the thermostat is doing its job.

with the radiator bieng the last contact, the cooling systems last effort was to cool or heat the fluid to proper temp. the best way to regulate somethings temprature is by using something at desired temprature to influence it.

[Isphius]

Your not as dumb as you look! Jk. Good info in here. Thanks for all the replies I guess, even tho some are not to me lol. And yes the regulation by environment is very very true. basic principal of chemistry (or for my purpose, making things that explode or burn in some way)