2JZGE idea... could it work? [Archive]

hottscennessey

12-10-2006, 04:26 PM

Hey guys,
I have been kicking around this idea in my head all morning, and I need someone to shoot it down before I get any sudden impulses.

WHAT IF:
I got a 2jzge, comepletely stock, installed it like I would a 1jz..

But instead of messing with a standalone, or N/A electronics, I ran it off of the 7M electronics.

hear me out, I'm not a complete idiot.. but I was thinking - little modification for a temporary solution.

I run MAF-T.. use that for airflow.
use side feed - low imp injectors and swap clips
Modify the alternator harness
use 7m water temp sensors
modify TPS harness
ISC should be plug-n-play
Knock sensors from 7m (tap the block for second sensor)
Ditch the CSI

Here is the part I've heard rumors about:

7MGTE CPS will plug into, and work on a 2JZGE head.

...so if that is true.. I use the CPS, and Coil pack/ignitor (obviously).

(researched and yes it does work http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347719&page=3)

from there I would have a block capable of what the 7M is and supposedly more (with a thicker HG). I could leave it N/A for awhile.. or add on a turbo. I am planning on going Megasquirt so don't flame me. I've just never heard anyone else mention this and was wondering if it was even possible.

I figure it's a 3.0 liter.. and with the not-so-agressive timing of the 7M it should control the 2jzge fine.

Flame away :nono:

Ken

12-10-2006, 05:07 PM

that will work, people have done it before. if SF's search wasn't down you could find it.

The 2JZGE already has 2 knock sensors, so no need for tapping, and I believe the GE already uses top feed injectors.

hottscennessey

12-10-2006, 05:08 PM

Awesome :)

So even the 7M injectors will work too?

Ken

12-10-2006, 05:19 PM

Yes, they will work, as long as you are using the 7M harness. I am not sure if the 2JZGE injectors are high or low impedence. That's easy to work around though either way. Remember to use all 7M sensors.

hottscennessey

12-10-2006, 05:23 PM

of course.. I'm thinking I'm gonna do it.

RacerXJ220

12-10-2006, 06:15 PM

Uh....

The 7M CPS does fit into the head, but you have to cut a large part off of it, unless you want to guess where the CPS lines up off center of the mounting bolt.

Higher compression in the 2JZ-GE stock.

Redo the coil packs, swap the ignitor, too much work, etc... Flywheel and bellhousing are needed too. Motormounts. What else.... Power steering lines, a/c.. there's a lot more to it. Good luck.

Just use a 2JZ-GE harness and ECU, around $300 pays for everything on the 2J-GE engine, including the wiring harness and ECU. So much easier, especiallhy with the higher compression, you'll run it a lot better.

If you go with a Megasquirt, then you're good to go, but on stock 7M electronics? No. No way worth it for the money. I would like to see you try though.

Please do it, and be the first here on SM!!!

hottscennessey

12-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Yea man, I'm pretty sure I want to do it now..

I was planning on using a thicker headgasket.. I'll have to read up on the N/A-T forums to see which size will give me the compression ratio I'm looking for.

Which part of the CPS would I have to cut off for it to work properly?

Thanks for the post man, I appreciate your input!

RacerXJ220

12-10-2006, 11:05 PM

I'll go outside and get a pic, brb lawlz.

RacerXJ220

12-10-2006, 11:14 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/RacerXJ220/DSCF1859.jpg

That's about 3/4's the way in. It doesn't really bolt on, at all, but it will still work with cutting, trimming, sanding, grinding, then line it up right, and adjust it, etc.....

12 point crank sensor FTW.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/RacerXJ220/P1020251.jpg

Just plug it up and keep going!

hottscennessey

12-10-2006, 11:30 PM

Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the picture man!

RacerXJ220

12-10-2006, 11:44 PM

As far as headgaskets go, I got a 2.5mm, which brings the compression to something like, 8.7:1. 3mm is supposed to be 8.5:1, and 2mm is supposed to be 9:1.

I ordered mine from HPF, it's a cometic, and got here in less than one week. Don't pay $300 for one, call Eric@hpf.

hottscennessey

12-11-2006, 12:01 AM

Great! Thanks! Looks like you have pleanty experience with the GE-T's. are you satisfied with their performance?

RacerXJ220

12-11-2006, 12:24 AM

I will be hopefully by the end of this week. In my signature, is a link to the engine built with pieces left over from the 1.5JZ-GE-TT. We're actually putting the 1.5JZ together after that one.

I just ordered everything I needed already for it, and did all the research for it already.

So basically, if you want to go 2JZ-GE-T, it's very very very simple.

Engine $300 (2JZ-GE local, expect $500-700 shipped) Stay away from VVT-i.

Headgasket $219

ARP headbolts/studs (I prefer studs) $120ish

550cc's $300ish

walbro $100

motormounts $190 shipped

Standalone $450-950-++++ (Megasquirt/Stinger 4XXX prices)

Intercooler and piping $300 (free if you use stock 7M-GTE stuff, you'll still need to make your own pipes)

Turbo manifold/downpipe/wastegate dump pipe $230 shipped(Ebay)

Turbo $whatever you want ($400 used 60-1)

Wastegate $50 (50mm China HKS knock off works fine).

Don't tap the block to feed your turbo, just use a Ebay oil filter sandwitch adapter $50shipped

Oil lines $ depends on what you want to use (long enough to go behind the engine to the turbo)

Drill the pan (it's free and mid-sump already)

Fuel pressure regulator (you have to get rid of the stocker. Use a M12 tap, tap the rail, and get an adapter, after that run any AFPR you want).

You might need to extend the throttle cable (I am putting the GE head in a 83 supra, it's different)

Wideband $250 (AEM)

And everything else you change over the same as a 1JZ swap, and there's tons of information on that one ;)

Depending on your power levels, 550cc's and a 60-1 may not be enough. 700RWHP seems to be the highest reliable on the GE-T's. If you want to go for the better stuff it's up to you, I didn't go THAT cheap, but these will work fine. Good luck.

Jeff

Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE

12-11-2006, 01:34 AM

manuel will need a 1jz bellhousing aut should work fine, if its the 2jz auto. sounds good keep us up to date!

hottscennessey

12-11-2006, 06:49 AM

yup 1jz bellhousing and 2jz flywheel correct? (1jz will work too right?). BIC motormounts for my pre-89 subframe.

that means all I need is an engine, exhaust manifold, custom exhaust, 1jz bellhousing, flywheel, alternator, timing belt, misc belts. :)

I havn't decided if I want to keep power steering or not yet. I'll have to weigh that out.

It's also nice that I shouldnt have to mod my IC setup too much either! :)

supra87t/t4

12-11-2006, 09:08 PM

I posted this idea on SF awhile ago, I'll find a link. I originally got the idea from daveh. I bought a 2JZGE engine and just got my BIC mounts, but haven't gotten much farther on it yet, it's a winter project and I need to clear some space out first. If your serious let's pool out resources/efforts or at least compare notes.

Glen

supra87t/t4

12-11-2006, 09:44 PM

couple links

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364127

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368542

not much real info, but worth a look

hottscennessey

12-11-2006, 10:14 PM

RacerXJ220

12-12-2006, 12:16 AM

I just don't understand why you would want to keep the 7M electronics. Piggybacks just don't cut it for me anymore.

Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE

12-12-2006, 03:46 AM

yea screw the 7m crap just use the 2jz stuff
if you dont want to dive into it or spend the 400 for a bell housing and all the headache why not go 1jz ? its pretty easy and bolt in for the most part then if you want later use the 2jz block on it ?
you can use most of the 2jz parts on the 1jz and you can always go single and mod your 1jz later too.

hottscennessey

12-12-2006, 09:02 AM

Yea man, I know exactly what you're saying, and I know it makes little to no sense.. but I want to do the 2JZGE(T) because:

1) It's totally different
2) going 1JZ only to go to a 2JZ block is too expensive
3) I'd rather go straight to single than do mods on the twins

I want to do the 7M electonics becasue:

1) to say i've done it ;)
2) I don't have to change hardly anything
3) It wont matter, becasue I'm definately going Megasquirt

All that really matters to me is the final product, guys.. a 2JZ NA-T on standalone engine management. I feel that it will be perfect without breaking my piggy bank.

Thanks for the input, I know I'm crazy, but to be honest, if the 7M electonics takes more than an ounce of energy, or if I have to say "its a PITA" even once- then I'll stop where I'm at and have my friend build my MS setup.

Supracentral

12-12-2006, 09:50 AM

if the 7M electonics takes more than an ounce of energy, or if I have to say "its a PITA" even once- then I'll stop where I'm at and have my friend build my MS setup.

This is the only statement you've made that makes me think you may not be completely insane... :icon_razz

Do keep us posted on your wacky (albeit cool) project. :icon_bigg

hottscennessey

12-12-2006, 07:50 PM

LOL thanks man.

Thats exactly why I'm not dealing with a 1JZ and its wiring, nor even run the 2JZGE harness/ecu. Too much work/money for something that will shortly be replaced.

supra87t/t4

12-13-2006, 02:04 AM

Its funny you said "I'm 95% sure I'm gonna do it" because thats exactly what I've been telling everyone.

I'm going to do it.. I just cant decide if I want to run it N/A for awhile.. or if I want to dive in and do N/A-T. Either way it shouldn't be too difficult. I guess I should at least Tap the upper oil pan for the drain while the engine is out. I guess I should find an engine first before I even say that tho. lol.

In theory, it will work no problem.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343731
try this one.. pretty informative.

..and I thought I was being original ;).

That must have been the thread I was looking for and could never find, I knew I had read it somewhere.

The beauty of this plan is that if the wiring/sensors work out ok, you can have a practically bulletproof longblock for not much more than it would cost you do put a MHG in your 7M, at least that's the way I'm looking at it. I could be wrong, time will tell.

slidingsidewayz

12-13-2006, 11:59 AM

wow. so it is possible to do this swap... my buddy has an extra 2jz-ge motor just laying around and i've always wondered if i could swap it to my other 87 na auto and i just bought....
is it harder than a 1j swap?

RacerXJ220

12-13-2006, 09:52 PM

I want everyone to put a 2JZ-GE in their MKIII's immediately! It's about the same effort to put a 2JZ-GE in, as it is to go single on a 1JZ with cams/springs. If you can, reuse a lot of performance items for the 7M like the intercooler, injectors, and turbo if you went T4 already, throttle body goes across the engine like the 7M, just massage the pipes.

I would recommend going standalone, a lot less hassle if you want to boost it. Most of the engines you can get come with the wiring harness and ECU. Just reuse the harness for an OEM look.

It can cost less than a 1JZ swap after it's all said and done.

hottscennessey

12-14-2006, 10:01 AM

my WTB on clublexus.com gave me a lot of offers on 2JZGE's.. I'm hoping to find one for the right price before the new year.

Like RacerXJ said, I'd go standalone considering the considerably high timing in the GE's ECU.

hottscennessey

12-19-2006, 12:27 AM

I'm looking at a particular 2JZGE out of a GS300- I was wondering if anyone knew if it was front or rear sump? I need rear- correct?

RacerXJ220

12-19-2006, 01:41 AM

Yep, rear sump is what you need.

foreverpsycotic

12-19-2006, 11:47 AM

IIRC, you will want a 2j out of a supra or a sc300

hottscennessey

12-19-2006, 09:15 PM

just because of the oil pan, or becasue of other differences?

foreverpsycotic

12-19-2006, 09:35 PM

yes, oil pan

p5150

12-20-2006, 12:35 AM

2jzget for me!

My engine gasket set should be here on Thursday - then I can put the rest of this beast together and take some pics of it on the engine stand.

I would recommend taking the shortblock apart and cleaning out the piston ring lands though. I cleaned a shitload of crap out of mine. All of the hardware is reusable.

My engine looks GREAT. All cross hatch was still completely visible and there was minimal bearing wear. All components of the block have been painted with por15 engine enamel.

One of the things I like about the 2j is that it has rod BOLTS not rod studs and nuts like the 7m. No need to resize the rods if you change the hardware. Either way, ALL of my hardware to include head, rod and main crank bolts measured in spec and were re-usable IAW the TSRM for the 2jz.

RacerXJ220

12-20-2006, 10:18 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/RacerXJ220/DSCF1870.jpg

VS.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OIL-FILTER-SANDWICH-PLATE-LEXUS-IS300-SC300-GS300-SC-GS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33613QQihZ011QQitemZ320063502780QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Basic, with three ports for sensors and feed(s).

OR

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OIL-COOLER-SANDWICH-PLATE-LEXUS-IS300-GS300-SC300-SC-GS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33613QQihZ011QQitemZ320062362454QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW AN-10 lines, oil cooler ready.

OR

An IS300 union bolt.

When you have the engine apart, that's when to decide whether to drill and tap the block or not. With the options above, you can also run an oil cooler, as stock, the 2JZ-GE does not have one.

p5150

12-20-2006, 11:26 AM

No thanks to the block tap.

Have you seen any oil thermostat sandwich plates? I want to run a cooler, but only with a thermostat.

RacerXJ220

12-20-2006, 11:30 AM

Edit: I just woke up...

Just giving you guys some options........

I plan on using just my oil filter relocation kit from my 7M (bolt on). Some 7M people already are using a Rx-7 cooler with the built in thermostats. On regular relocation kits (like the one I'm using) the lines will act as coolers, good enough for me.

That's all that's needed on the engine IMO. I thought about using my 1JZ stock oil cooler. The holes are already on the 2JZ-GE block, then feed it back to the water return on the waterpump.

yeah man, but built in thermostats, I'm not too sure about.

7Mboost

12-20-2006, 07:30 PM

If your not going geT don't waste you time.

hottscennessey

12-20-2006, 07:37 PM

I'm just going to use an oil filter adapter plate w/ a long feed and drill the pan out. (If I don't get a GTE pan w/ it)

oil pan situation is handled- he has a GTE he's putting in his GS300, so he'll give me whichever pan he doesn't use. (just hope its a MKIV 2JZ, and not an aristo)

Highpsi1jz: why? whats wrong with the GE and going NA-T? Last time I checked they can handle pleanty of power, reliably. Parts are readily available for it, and its different.

p5150

12-20-2006, 07:53 PM

Im definately going to run an oil cooler - easy to install and worth the effort. Especially since im NATing it......

Im turning the front fog light holes into ducts for air intake and probably an oil cooler duct of sorts.

RacerXJ220

12-21-2006, 01:57 AM

The IS300 union bolt may be cheaper than a sandwitch plate. I'm not 100%, but it works the same. The sandwitch just gives you more sensor/feed options, but if you're going single, union bolt. A search on www.clubna-t.com may yield excellent results on that topic ;)

hottscennessey

12-21-2006, 07:10 AM

yea, you're right, it definately is cheaper but I have one laying around. I might just go with the union bolt and put it up F/S.

hottscennessey

12-23-2006, 10:49 AM

Guys I'm looking for input on which turbo to run.

I'm really looking to make some decent power. I'm looking for around 500-550 RWHP on pump+meth.

What size A/R should I be looking for, and I was thinking maybe a T70, but what about the A/R? This car will never be daily driven, and will have proper engine management.

What are you're opinions on the GE with around 8.3:1 compression on like.. a .63 A/R, vs. .86 A/R vs. a .96 A/R.

p5150

12-23-2006, 01:37 PM

RacerXJ220

12-23-2006, 09:55 PM

67mm turbo....

Or larger... 500RWHP on a .63 A/R should be cake. It is possible to make 500RWHP w/o meth on 93 octane, and very doable with that turbo. Nice powerband too.

Look into what the MKIV guys are running (single kits), and you'll get all the answers you need, to include the A/R, timing maps, fuel maps, injector sizing, use a dual walbro hanger, etc...

8.3:1 seems a bit low IMO. Even if you're going for 30PSI on meth. That headgasket will weigh two pounds**lol. Unless you changed the pistons, but this is on the *cheap.