How do 4" sound?

[Tearlessj]

I want a good sounding set-up. I was going to go 5.25 components, but Im not sure if those will fit up front. I noticed alot of people are running 4" in the front that fit rite in. How do they sound? Should i go ahead and find a 5.25?

[mattjk]

depends on the speakers. The older gen MB quart 4" reference coax and separates are some of the best sounding car speakers I've ever heard. Very balanced and accurate sounding.

[johnathan1]

You can fit the 5"1/4" speakers up front with some modifications, or make your own bracket... 4" speakers up front sound like crap IMO...get the 91-92 6.5" bracket.

[mattjk]

my stock 91 speakers sound pretty good :)

[lagged]

get the 91-92 6inch speaker pods.

ive got them and think they are great.

[inline6]

I have some 4" speakers and they are pretty crisp but not very loud at all. They seems more like big tweeters to me.

I would put the bigger ones in like these guys suggest.

[turbo4toy]

It totally depends upon your setup as a whole. If you are not able to filter out low range thru them they will most likely sound distorted and like crap. I personally think with a good EQ and amp setup you can make them sound great and really clear. You usually get what you pay for and a lot of the higher end stuff will perform better.

[Tearlessj]

Where can I find the 6" pods? Thats exactly what im looking for!

[lagged]

ask lenny. he seemingly has a basement in japan full of them.

[tissimo]

I have upgraded stuff in my 87 (dont remember exactly what they were) and they dont hold a candle to my 91 stereo.. and everything is stock on it (headunit to speakers)! Deff get the 91+ pods!

edit: at first i thought you ment 4" exhaust at thread title.. but those sound good too!!

[mattjk]

youguyswantmine? I'm getting the MB quart 4"

[suprahero]

How do 4" sound?.............................




Sounds like the doctor cut you a little too close to the belly...............:biglaugh:

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. I've got my flame suit on so bring it...........lol

[johnathan1]

Matt: you're getting rid of your 91+ pods?

[mattjk]

I've used the 4" mb quarts on all my past cars, it's the only one I'll use.

Last car I used were Focals and didn't like them as much. It all comes down to the install.

[bowsercake]

My speakers were blown so I got four 4" Pioneer cheap speakers from shady wholesale dealers in downtown LA. They work well enough but you can tell the sound is lacking. I've got the pioneers up front and in the hatch but the two 3.5" open air speakers in the rear seats are still there. I couldn't find a good replacement for those since they were not enclosed.

basically, 4" sounds good enough but it is not great, in fact, maybe its not good.

[mattjk]

sheesh, if you guys buy cheap speakers, they will sound like crap. Please don't lump in all speakers together.

[johnathan1]

I had 4" Pioneers up front, and they just don't have what it takes, with the top off, on the freeway, I couldn't even hear them when I turned it up as loud as it would go.

[Tearlessj]

I cant find any. If anyone would like to help me out, thatd be great. So I can hurry and get my interior together.

[annoyingrob]

I would suggest that you make your own mount for 6.5" instead of buying the pods. If you're going for any sort of decent aftermarket speaker with any sort of depth, you're going to be hacking up the pods anyways. A piece of 1/2" MDF scrwewed onto the door in the original holes with a hole in the middle cut out is cheap and easy.

[tekdeus]

Here's a write-up for making your own plate. http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11473&highlight=speaker
I'm going to do something like this but I will use separate tweeters mounted onto the kick-panel plastic parts near the feet, which will give ideal imaging for the highs. Left in the door would be muffled I think. By the way, 4" leave a lot to be desired unless you're running amps with low frequency filters and an amp and sub for bass.

[Adjuster]

If you use seperate 4" mid and tweeters, and have a good crossover, your sound will be much better.

I have Diamond Audio componets, and they work great with my 10" sealed box Diamond subwoofer. (the key is a good amp setup, and control of the bass seperate from the rest.)

I had to modify the stock speaker housing to work with the Diamonds. They were too deep having cast alloy baskets and larger magnets.

Also try putting some stuffing in your enclosures. It makes them "Sound" bigger.

4" front, and 5.25's in the back work with some minor trimming for most people. (Unless you have the 91 door trim and enclosures, then you can use 6" I belive.)

[Tearlessj]

Alright, Im going to settle for some CDT 5.25 components in the front and some 5.25 CDT mids in the back with a hifonics 440 watt 4-way amp. How should this sound. Im not going to be running subs due to the weight of the subs I want.I just want some decent clear sound. Nothing too over the top.

[tekdeus]

I think you'll be happy. You can get double the bass out of 5.25" speakers running them off an amp compared to head unit power. Most head units only put out a true 7-12 RMS watts per channel. See if you can mount your front tweeters like I mentioned. The difference in stereo imaging will be amazing.

I'd still recommend a single 8 or 10" sub in the rear to fill it all out nicely. (Just so you know, I sold car audio for 5 years!)

[Tearlessj]

Im thinking about putting a FI audio 12" Q in the back. Id love to have a sub, but weight would start to become an issue. Id want it to be easy to remove, but then itd be easy to steal. Thatd be another thing too, I dont want my shit jacked! lol

[bwest]

Fitting 6.5 in the door is not that hard, and since you are going to an external amp for power, (while other may disagree) I see it as the only way to go.
here is a write up on 6.5s in the door:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286116&postcount=32

[Tearlessj]

Fitting 6.5 in the door is not that hard, and since you are going to an external amp for power, (while other may disagree) I see it as the only way to go.
here is a write up on 6.5s in the door:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=32
Link isnt working.

[bwest]

Fixed the link in my post.

here it is again:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286116&postcount=32

thanks for the heads up.

[johnathan1]

Here's another write-up:

http://gallery.sanitylapse.com/v/supra/thumbnails.php?album=158

[annoyingrob]

I think you'll be happy. You can get double the bass out of 5.25" speakers running them off an amp compared to head unit power. Most head units only put out a true 7-12 RMS watts per channel. See if you can mount your front tweeters like I mentioned. The difference in stereo imaging will be amazing.

I'd still recommend a single 8 or 10" sub in the rear to fill it all out nicely. (Just so you know, I sold car audio for 5 years!)

Yes, get a separate amp for the fronts. Even a small 2x50w amp will make a HUGE difference in clarity. Trust us, it's a GOOD investment.

[TRACKTIME]

I want a good sounding set-up. I was going to go 5.25 components, but Im not sure if those will fit up front. I noticed alot of people are running 4" in the front that fit rite in. How do they sound? Should i go ahead and find a 5.25?

[Tearlessj]

Yes, get a separate amp for the fronts. Even a small 2x50w amp will make a HUGE difference in clarity. Trust us, it's a GOOD investment.
I dont think he mentioned anything about running a seperate amp for the fronts and backs. Im trying to get around 100w to each speaker.

[bwest]

I have a 100w/ch going to to my CDT's - which IMO is just right for the set that I have. If you have their kevlar coned euro set (for instance) you might consider more than 100w/ch

[tekdeus]

50 watts RMS (real watts) is often called 100 or 150 MAX or PEAK watts. 2x50 RMS is tons for 5 or 6 inch speakers. Many house amplifiers put out 2x50!

RMS is continuous output, the number that equates to real-world use. Many amp makers will measure the shortest (millisecond) power spike an amp can spew out with massive distortion (over 10%) while supplying the amp with voltage that it would never see in a real car environment )say 14-15 volts. This is how they market a 50 rms watt amp to be 200 or 400 peak watts.

[annoyingrob]

I have a 100w/ch going to to my CDT's - which IMO is just right for the set that I have. If you have their kevlar coned euro set (for instance) you might consider more than 100w/ch

I run about 80wrms into my CDT 6.5s (the kevlar cone euroframe ones), and with an 80hz highpass on them, 80w is plenty of power for them. "Just right" sounds good :)

I dont think he mentioned anything about running a seperate amp for the fronts and backs. Im trying to get around 100w to each speaker.
What I meant was don't even bother amping the rear speakers. Focus on the fronts.

[bwest]

50 watts RMS (real watts) is often called 100 or 150 MAX or PEAK watts. 2x50 RMS is tons for 5 or 6 inch speakers. Many house amplifiers put out 2x50!

RMS is continuous output, the number that equates to real-world use. Many amp makers will measure the shortest (millisecond) power spike an amp can spew out with massive distortion (over 10%) while supplying the amp with voltage that it would never see in a real car environment )say 14-15 volts. This is how they market a 50 rms watt amp to be 200 or 400 peak watts.

true- this is why i prefer amps with an actual 'birth certificate'. I don't have the means to build a test bench (nor the desire) - so by sticking to an amp with a tested output (with the testing constraints listed) from the factory is ok with me.

I run about 80wrms into my CDT 6.5s (the kevlar cone euroframe ones), and with an 80hz highpass on them, 80w is plenty of power for them. "Just right" sounds good

I should note that when I installed mine (4 years ago) I had to do some work to the door to seal the mid-bass in order to make it sound decent @volume. from here, I was able to set the amp gain at a normal level (I'm still running a 60hz highpass)and still crank it up. without an actual tester, it is hard to say i'm running X wts all the time (i actually don't listen to my music that loud anymore...must be getting old) but based on amp output, 100/channnel in a running can environment could happen (if i cranked it up enough).

btw- how do the euro's sound? they hadn't come out yet when I bought my set.

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

If I were you I'd say ditch the rear speakers all together. The simplest wayto explain this is to have you think of a concert soundstage. Where is all the music coming from? In front of you :)

Stereo Imaging FTW :) If you do a search on sound quality level competition cars, you'll find that most, if not all of them do not use what is called "rear fill" (rear speakers). A decent set of components, with correct power, and a sub with correct power that is not overwhelming said components will make ALL the difference :)

[tekdeus]

I find that the positioning of the rear speakers in the Mk3 is so far back and by pointing up, they do a good job of filling in the sound without affecting the frond sound stage too much. I prefer to be "surrounded" by sound, myself.

[annoyingrob]

If I were you I'd say ditch the rear speakers all together.
I think I mentioned that earlier, but nobody listened :) I agree with you 100% I don't run rears in my supra. All it does is screw up the soundstage. And yes, most "SQ" installs don't use rears. Instead of upgrading the rears, take the money, and put it into the fronts. A GOOD set of front speakers, properly amped won't need rear fill at all. I tried running rears, but I found all it did was make it sound worse.

As for being "surrounded" by sound, if your fronts are set up properly, they will surround you. Do you feel surrounded by sound with a pair of headphones? I bet you do.... As long as the speakers are angled to create the proper soundstage, they will surround you with sound.


btw- how do the euro's sound? they hadn't come out yet when I bought my set.
I'm very impressed with them. They are extremely clear speakers. The tweeters are very natural, not harsh at all. The midrange is very accurate as well. I'm noticing things in music I didn't even know was there. I couldn't pass them up when woofersect.com had them on sale for $250. Then I bought them, and they dropped them to $200 :nono: . I can see why these things are usually $500 speakers, they sound amazing.

While we're on the subject, the tweeters are mounted in the stock location, above the midrange. They're angled up towards the driver. They work EXTREMELY well at creating the proper soundstage. I was a little concerned with the soundstage, especially when stock, as the speakers kind of fire at your knees. I didn't want to create any sort of kick panels, there's no room (especially in a RHD car, the gas pedal is there), but with the tweeters angled up towards the driver, it lifted the whole soundstage up from your stomach to your face.

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

I <3 people who know their shit. non-existant +1 for you Rob :)

[annoyingrob]

I <3 people who know their shit. non-existant +1 for you Rob :)
My alter-ego is an audio guru :) Second from driving, music is my passion. There's not a lot I don't know about car audio, but I usually remain quiet because on a forum like this, nobody bothers to listen.

[Tearlessj]

Im going for a set of Focal 5.25"s in the front then. So no sub or anything in the rear?

This amp look ok? just for the fronts.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13985
With these components?
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1154

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

Sounds good!! The whole rear fill thing only includes rear SPEAKERS; while a subwoofer is technically a speakers, it's not included in the "rear-fill" category. Set up correctly, a subwoofer will blend in with your components PERFECTLY, making it seem as if there really is no sub, just perfect bass :)

[ChadMKIII]

Damn, annoyingrob, it seriously sounds like you know your stuff.
I don't wanna make a new thread about it so can I just hijack this real quick-sorry to the parent.

Annoyingrob, I think I want to get these speakers, in your opinion will they sound decent? I want them because of the 4 separate speaker-thingys [insert correct audiophilic word here] so I figured I'd get better separation/less distortion at higher volumes. Look decent?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7661693&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03076&id=1134701341854

[Tearlessj]

Chad,

I dont think those would sound good at all. Sony makes some "lower" end stuff.

[annoyingrob]

Chad, the whole "4-way" setup is nothing more then a marketing ploy. Interestingly enough, the more drivers you have, the worse it sounds, as more drivers create more sources of sound, which can cancel each other out, etc. I'm not sure how much post-secondary physics you've taken, but let's just say that if you have 4 tweeters playing the same thing, mounted in (slightly) different locations, you're going to get some messed up cancellation issues. The "4-way" drivers will actually create a much worse sound stage, and sound like poo.

A GOOD setup will use as few speakers as possible to cover the whole frequency range. A good subwoofer covering 20-80hz, and a good midrange/tweeter combo covering 80-20,000hz. The midrange and tweeter should be placed as close together as possible to help create a proper soundstage. (if they're separate, your mind can think the sound is coming from 2 different locations, which is bad in this case)

I would run away from Sony, Audiobahn, or anything of the like. It's all "flashy" garbage. I would look at either a coaxial, or component set from a reputable company like Infinity, CDT, hell even the Alpine type R components are half-decent. Look to spend around $100 for a pair of speakers. If you can't decide, I would check out some car audio forums www.caraudioforum.com www.caraudio.com etc, and see what people tend to think are a good bang for the buck.

[tekdeus]

After selling car audio for half a decade and hearing most speakers out there, here's my opinion. The BEST, clearest and most transparent sounding speakers are made of paper pulp with either soft dome or titanium tweeters. Most plastic woofers and tweeters sound dull because of their weight and pliability.

Best sounding in order of preference (4 to 6.5")
OLD MB quarts (early 90's)
Focal
High-end alpine (SPX series)
Infinity
Old high-end clarion
JL audio (barely makes this list)

Garbage speakers:
99% of Sony speakers have always sucked
Kenwood
No-name or unrecognizable name brands

Best Cheap to mid priced brands:
Alpine
Pioneer

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

Eclipse anyone? High end kicker stuff? That's just for the decently priced stuff

How about(high end SQ stuff):
dynaudio
Diamond
arc
rainbow
a/d/s
CDT
and the list could go on and on

[ChadMKIII]

Annoyingrob, TearlessJ, Tekdeus, T.T.L,
Thanks guys. I really am clueless in this area ;) I thought more sound separation would be better. Just goes to show you... And no, Rob, no post-secondary physics, I'm still just in HS, in our skim-the-surface-of-everything physics.

So because I am still on a budget, and most of the difference in sound I hear will most likely be placebo thanks to the list of good and bad, I'm prolly going with a Pioneer, Alpine, or Infinit setup. I can't afford the upper-end models of any of them though :(

Thanks guys!

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

Your welcome Chad, that's what we're here for :)

I'll tell ya that for the money, the Infinity Reference components REALLY do sound good. My mom has them in her Neon (powered by just the head unit) and they sound pretty fuggin good for $150 components with 5x7 rear fills.

[ChadMKIII]

Your welcome Chad, that's what we're here for :)

I'll tell ya that for the money, the Infinity Reference components REALLY do sound good. My mom has them in her Neon (powered by just the head unit) and they sound pretty fuggin good for $150 components with 5x7 rear fills.
Yeah, thats what I'd love, but I'm not sure if I wanna spend that much on speakers right now, its about twice what I was looking for. But maybe...we'll see ;)

Anyone know anything about Clarion for car audio? Crap/Decent/Good?

Oh, yeah, and if my HU running a built-in MOSFET amp is putting out around 45W/ch max & 18~22W/ch RMS will a speaker that does about 160-180W max and 50-60W RMS be too much for it to push? Or will that be fine?

[johnathan1]

I have a pair of Pioneers i'll let go really cheap. 4" from the front doors of my car, relatively new...I think they are rated @ 70W RMS. They have a 1" tweeter in the center...they actually sound pretty good.

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

using your headunit to push (almost) ANY aftermarket speaker will be fine. They won't sound top notch because they aren't getting anywhere near as much power as they need, but they will be ok.

As far as clarion :runaway:

[ChadMKIII]

Jonathan-Lookin for 6.5", but thanks.
As far as clarion :runaway:
Thought that might be....lol. Thanks again. So I'm totalling up xmas money-I think I will get the Infiniti Ref's after all, they're on sale for 100, so I have plenty extra to spend on it. lol.
K, I'll quit hijacking this thread now.... :biglaugh: