Ways to cure 7M oiling issues

[williamb82]

this is a writup i did for celicasupra.com with various info ive read all over the place and pics if found or been sent by various individuals. just figured you guys would like to see it. btw, my mkii is front sump so a couple lil things wont apply directly to you mkiii guys. here it is.

ok, first off, i havent done all these mods myself as of yet. this is just to show people what i WILL be doing on this current buildup to make this engine as bullit proof as possible. alot of these things are cheap, some arnt, but all in all i think they will make the oiling system the last thing anyone will have to worry about again. now, with that said, this is my opinion at this point how to solve it and not a fact as i havent finished yet. though im getting asked questions about it and since i have prolly done more research on this then most anyone else, i figured id do this writeup to answer some questions and shed some light.

step1: the first thing you need to do obviously is rebuild the engine and make sure its assembled properly with the proper tollerances etc... while doing this there is a very cheap set of items to replace most people never think of that are very important to replace. and that is the SPRINGS in the OIL SQUIRTERS!!! nobody ever thinks to replace these, yet obviously they are old and worn out and opening at lower oil pressures then origonally designed. i myself plan to test them and possibly replace with stiffer then factory replacement springs. this is a must imho. do it. they arnt that much from the dealer. heres a pic of the oil squirter.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/31603275496.jpg

and heres the page of the tsrm that shows the location of the bolt that needs replaced for the oil squirters. the bolts part number is part #15703-66010

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/EM_063.gif

also. get a REAL oil pressure gauge to replace the factory one. the factory one is iffy at best. doesnt really let you know whats goin on. and its easiest to install the sender for an aftermarket gauge while the engine is out and being rebuilt.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/th_2634_d.jpg



step 2: the oil pump itself. most of us use the 5m oil pump which is fine, but what you might not be aware of is that wether you are using the 5m or 7m pump, there is a clearance from the gears, to the lower case. there is a minimum and maximum tolerance. what you need to do is measure that, and then have the cover machined at the machine shop to put this as close to the minimum clearance as posible (the cover is held on by several 10mm bolts). this will increase the volume output of your oil pump significantly if it is worn alot.

also, the pressure releif spring wears as well. this regulates the max pressure of the oil. this is a linear spring, so it does open before max presure is realized. if someone tells you it stays closed till max press they are full of crap. it is not a solinoid acting as an on/off switch, it is a simple spring, it starts being compressed the moment any pressure is applied and is fully open by the max oil pressure. what i recomend is to shim this with ~12mm thick of washers to tighten it up. it will increase your max pressure by ~15psi or so, but will increase the lower rpm pressure much more dramaticly, as itll have to push harder to start opening. now if your worried about it dont do it, but i highly recomend it, and have done it myself.


step 3: here is what you currently have to feed the oil from the pump to the block.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/oldoilfeed.jpg

it has a banjo fitting on the end coming out of the oil pump which is horrible for flow, and it also is a crush bent tube, which hinders flow at every bend.

this is what i recomend. it is a 8an line running from the oil pump to the block using 8an adaptors. you need a 3/8npt male to 8an/jic male for the fitting feeding oil into the block from the pump and a 18mm 1.5 thread to 8an for he fitting coming out of the oil pump itself.

heres for a 7m in a mkiii with midsump.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/oilfeedfittingsinplace.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/10anoilfeed.jpg

and heres a 7m in a mkii with a 5m pump and front sump.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/oilfeedline2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/oilfeedline3.jpg

(wouldnt let me put more then 20 pics in one post. )

notice the line isnt touching anything and cant. wont touch the pan either, so itll hold up fine. hose is good to 300deg and 1000psi as per the company that al the parts come from. they verified it wont hurt the hose at all to be submersed in oil.

if your interested in buying the fittings and the line already made up as a bolt in kit pm me!


step 4:here is the stock 7mgte oil filter adaptor next to the 5m motor mount.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/motormountmkii7m.jpg

notice the interference issue, which is easy to rectify and will help the oiling system. the stock 7mgte oil cooler design is a very poor engineered one. it is a pressure controled spring that regulates oil flow to the oil cooler and then back to the pan once a certain pressure is reached. this spring also wears and would need changed, but since even a new spring still alows oil pressure to be wasted and fed back to the pan, it should at the minimum be replaced with a spin on adaptor for a oil filter relocation kit. heres a pic. it is on the block with 8an fitings attached. 8an ss braided line will be perfect to run for the external filter adaptor.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/soinonadaptor.jpg

now thats an efective fix, but for the more hardcore like me, here is what i plan to do.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/fittingsonblock.jpg

those are 8an fittings. one is threaded into the center of the oil filter location, that is the return to the block and feeds the main oil galley. the lower one has had the lower cover plate removed, and then tapped for the fitting. this is the feed from the oil pump. now heres an important note. this fitting has the full diameter feed from the inlet to the block from the pump. above this it tapers down to a smaller diameter to feed the oil filter normally. this passage will need to be plugged. the guy i got the pic from welded an extension to a tap and tapped the passage where it tapers down and used a threaded pipe plug. i may do this but may also just weld the port shut on the outer part of the block. i havent decided just yet but either way, this is the outlet and inlet setup i will use for the oil system and it will alow for the best oil flow. i will take and post pics when i do this.

step 5: since you should be throwing out the stock oil cooler setup, with the use of an external oil cooler setup, you should get a good quality oil cooler and an oil thermostat. here is a pic of an oil thermostat.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/oilthermostat.jpg

the purpose of this is to regulate the oil temperature, but also, even when oil is being sent to the oil cooler, it is still being put to the engine so no oil pressure is wasted back to the oil pan. this should be plumbed in after the oil filter, so the oil should flow from the block, to the oil filter, then from the oil filter to the oil thermostat, then to the block. and then the 2 ports on the thermostat designed or the oil cooler should go to and from the oil cooler of coarse. heres a pic of a place you may want to mount the oil filter.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/filterplacement.jpg

also just to note, some oil coolers have built in thermostats, such as the rx7 oil cooler i plan to use so this cuts down on the amount of parts i need to buy and the lines i need to run. if you use a oil cooler with a built in thermostat then you dont need the external oil thermostat.

now, at this point you will have a very soild oil system, but, it can still be better. and heres how.

step 6: get yourself an accuspump and plump it in after the oil filter and cooler. this has 2 benifits, first, you can use it as a preluber to lube the engine before starting to ensure the maximum life of your engine bearings, and second, it can be set to realease oil into the system anytime the oil pressure drops suddenly below a preset point. this can save you incase of some strange emergency or accident.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/accusump1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/accusump2.jpg

and yet another important thing to make the system even better.

step 7: upgrade the oil pan for one with a larger sump to hold more oil and that has baffles. i myself will be fabbing a new oil pan, and will take lots of pics and do a writeup when i do it and may offer to do it for others. this is common practice on domestics, and for good reason, the more oil your system contains, the less likely you are to run low. heres some pics of the group a magnesium pan toyota built for the group a mkiii race cars as an example. toyota themselves knew it was needed for high power racing conditions.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan4.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan5.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan6.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/oil%20mods/groupapan7.jpg



anyhow, thats what i got for now, if i skipped something or remember something i forgot to mention ill edit it later. and will post other/better pics when i find them. enjoy.

[spoolint78]

did the same thing with my oilpan as well

well worth it.

Good info in this thread

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1203/1000393wf0.jpg

[williamb82]

oh yeah, and for you mkiii guys, put some washers between the block and pickup brace to place the pickup deeper in the pan, i forgot exactly how thick you want the washers though, i kinda forgot since it dint apply to me. ill try to find out the info.

btw, the group a pan pics are just for ref. ill take pics of my enlarged front sump pan when i get a chance to start on it.

[bowsercake]

WOW! Awesome write up. I am going to be rebuilding soon and I will definately be following some of your suggestions. I am excited to see your custom oil pan once you get it finished. I was thinking of doing something similar.

Also, what do you think of crank scrapers? Are they a worthwhile investment?

[shaeff]

if i had found out about crank scrapers when i had my motor out, i'd have put one in in a heartbeat.

some of those pics look like Adjuster's setup. (or is it Pioneer?) can't remember.

-shaeff

[starscream5000]

Nice writeup ;).

[NashMan]

there is one mroe thing to add buying 2jz pickup is far better then the 7m's pic up i going rig mine that way

[spoolint78]

WOW! Awesome write up. I am going to be rebuilding soon and I will definately be following some of your suggestions. I am excited to see your custom oil pan once you get it finished. I was thinking of doing something similar.

Also, what do you think of crank scrapers? Are they a worthwhile investment?

i got one of these as well.
Thought i would give it a try.
I hear a lot of good things about them

[NashMan]

oh one more note you are not suppost to run braied line in oil there is one type of hose that cna be ran but ti not breaied

i going to be getting hard line made up this time around last time i drilled out the bago bolt as much as i chould befor but thsi time it hard line

[williamb82]

go to crankscrappers.com. might be a dash in there, dont remember, have to dig for the buisness card tomarow. i lent the guy a 7mge with rodknock so he could make them up. i got mine for free and plan to use it as well. they are cheap imho worth using.

also, now that i think about it, i think i did get some of those pics from adjuster, couldnt remember exactly who. thnx for mentioning that. i had some stuff i wanted to ask him.

[hottscennessey]

Great writeup, BTW is that a FD oil cooler that has the built in T-stat?

[drjonez]

arnout over in the netherlands makes a girdle and a windage tray IIRC....if a scraper isn't your thing.

IMNSHO the #1 fix is the stupid oil filter mount....next to a properly rebuilt engine, of course.

[supramike7m]

sweet this sounds awesome, definatly keep us updated.

[Inygknok]

I have also heard that (in 7M-GTE's) you could replace the stock oil filter adapter with the 7M-GE one to eliminate the problem of restriction. In fact, I've seen it posted all over the forums :icon_bigg

[drjonez]

I have also heard that (in 7M-GTE's) you could replace the stock oil filter adapter with the 7M-GE one to eliminate the problem of restriction. In fact, I've seen it posted all over the forums :icon_bigg

see my above statements.

it's not a problem of restriction, it's a problem of limiting max press/flow.

[Inygknok]

see my above statements.

it's not a problem of restriction, it's a problem of limiting max press/flow.
Didn't see your post, my bad. I kinda skimmed through the 2nd page of posts in this thread :nono:. Feeling a bit tired today.

[drjonez]

...Feeling a bit tired today.

heh. you and me both!

[williamb82]

yup. i mentioned to replace that stupid thing as well. ill post a pic of my oil cooler in a few.

edit: heres the pics of the oil cooler i plan to use. just for ref those lines appear to be ~10an or so. possibly 12.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/2042690_88_full.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/2042690_87_full.jpg

[NashMan]

willl i am certon of this cause i had one of thosu chiller's on my frist gen rx7 cause the stock one roted away so i grabed one for t2 and replaced it

now i took the thing apart and i saw no bye pass or t state it doe shave drain thou so am i missing some thign here

[group a supra]

good thread william

[williamb82]

ok, i was given incorrect info then. i havent taken that plug off to clean it yet. i was told by a guy i know that all the rx7's had thermostats built in, i have seen it before about the t2 models do so now im not so sure. either way ill still use this cooler. its in good shape and isnt rotted, though ill have it flushed and checked at a rad shop before use. only cost $10 and it is huge. lol.

[arz]

Yep I have run that same cooler on other turbo vehicles for over 10 years and was told that was a thermostat bypass too. I will be taking mine apart shortly to confirm also.

Never the less it has always served me well.

[Adjuster]

RX7 turboII engines used a thermostat equipped oil cooler. I have mine tig welded at the mounting brackets to the end tanks on my FMIC. (Very little surface area actually touches between the two, and it's lined up perfectly so the upper grille air flow goes over the oil cooler and the lower grilled air flow goes over the FMIC. One of these days, I'm adding a air flow diverter design that will allow even better air flow through these, and keep the air flow seperated better.

The thermostat works. I took mine apart, and re-tapped the stock sized fittings which were AN8 to AN10. (The stock ID in and out on the cooler.)
Same with the oil pump. I've modifed and ported my oil pump to accept AN10 fittings. (You can get BSP 18mm 90 fittings to AN10, but the ID of the fitting is not giving you full flow.) Same goes for the stock fitting on the filter side of the block. You have to drill and tap the block for a larger 20mm BSP to AN10 fitting, to get full ID maintained from the pump to the exit point on the block.
To keep the AN10 sized theme, we tapped and plugged the small drilled out passage that normally feeds the stock filter boss on the engine block. The stock main galley thread is 20mm, so a BSP to AN10 fitting works great there, no mods required.
I use a 1/2" NPT compression thread on the outlet where the NA cooler bypass would bolt up to the block. (The GTE has a simple block off plate there stock.) If I did it again, I'd go 20 BSP to AN10 as the straight threads of the bsp fitting don't stress the block like the 1/2" NPT ones do.

I broke a block using the 1/2NPT thread fitting on the rail port. (SUCKED FOR SURE< had to tear down the entire motor, and re-machine the block for a BSP20 to AN10.. Note how low mine is compared to stock which is at the oil pan rail height.)

Shimmed the pump with a 10mm nut, and two washers. Also ported the pump to smooth flow out of the pump. No sharp edges on the corners between the pump gears and the exit point into the 90 BSP fitting.

I don't know why there should be a problem using stainless line inside the pan. It's pretty rugged stuff, and should hold up to the heat and oil just fine.

My system is AN10 from the pump to the return at the galley. I used Canton Mecca depth filter and 3 quart accusump. Also used a 1 quart Oil Guard bypass filter that takes oil out of the main galley, and filters it down to just one micron or better. (The Canton filters are claimed to be good down to 8 microns or better, and flow more dirty than a brand new paper pleated filter can.)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/7MGTE/PICT0090.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/7MGTE/PICT0085.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/Uber%20Oil%20Filters/PICT0231.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/Uber%20Oil%20Filters/PICT0222.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/Uber%20Oil%20Filters/PICT0223.jpg
This gives you an idea of how convoluted the oil system can become if you let it take control of your engine build!
Small line is feed for turbo.
Two other small AN4 lines are oil supply from the main galley to the bypass filter, and the return line dumping oil back into the pan via the stock oil cooler dump port at the oil pan.
Then there is the AN10 line coming out of the engine, and the AN10 lines, one way valve, and T fitting allowing the accusump to fill/supply oil, and oil to go into the engine at the main galley. (Middle of the round filter boss on the engine is directly into the main galley that supplies oil to your entire engine, crank first.)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/Bolt%20on%20Turbo/P6110193.jpg

[drjonez]

you sir, are insane. excellent work + attention to detail!

[Adjuster]

Thanks man!

I'll post some current photos when it's all done. (New and improved if you can belive it :)

And running the Maft Pro if all goes right.

[arz]

Dude, I knew you were crazy!!! But he's right too, check his out. Notice the lip on the inside of this compression fitting leading into the block up to the oil filter inlet.

If I understood you correct, "Adjuster" this is the hole in the block to the right of the fitting in my hand. The objective was to remove any restrictions between the oil pump and the filter (because there are more than one correct?!?!)

The banjo bolt and this neck down in the compression fitting and the diameter of the bore going into the oil filter location. Oh and the inside diameter of the compression line is probably the same diameter too huh?

you drilled the block out and cracked it here correct?!?!? (DOH that would suck. My condolences go out to you) The scarafices we make in the name of horsepower and speed!!!

Im not sure I understood what you did if anything to this hole going back into the block from the oil filter adapter location. In the second photo, it seems that this hole would need modification too.
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1337/01200024cu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3637/01200025jq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[arz]

I noticed right after I posted and IJ alerted me to the fact that the ID of the tube is the exact same inside diameter, but if your changing it all I can see how gains could be made.

Edit:
Finally got around to checking my RX7 oil cooler, and sure enough it "IS" thermostatically controlled.

[loki2043]

oh one more note you are not suppost to run braied line in oil there is one type of hose that cna be ran but ti not breaied

i going to be getting hard line made up this time around last time i drilled out the bago bolt as much as i chould befor but thsi time it hard line


what type? whats wrong with the braided?

[NashMan]

i don't remmber just got to hydroilck shopa dn talk to some peoepl they will nto lead you the wroung way

as long as there not hick based shop

[Adjuster]

After much brainstorming, and trying to think out side the box, I was actually thinking of running the oil pump exit side straight out of the engine via the oil pan and a welded on bulkhead fitting, or drilling a hole through the block, and using a bulkhead fitting there... but really this is a nasty setup as there is not much free space inside the motor....

And then it hit me! The block is setup perfectly like it's own dry sump. You have the pump, and then the crossover pipe taper fitting that directs the oil up to the oil filter boss cast into the block.

That hole and fitting that ARZ's photo is where the oil after being pumped, goes up to the oil filter location. (Via a drilled passage that I belive is a restriction as the ID appears to be smaller than what I wanted, and smaller than the main galley fitting in the middle of the oil filter location.)

So, to keep the AN10 ID size from pump to return at the motor, the pump was modified, block was modifed and RX7 cooler was modified. Everything else was AN10 or better anyway.

I would use BSP type fittings v/s tapered thread ones to keep stress on the block to a minimum. (There is just enough material on the block to drill it out and tap it for the 20mm thread needed to keep the AN10 ID intact. And since the BSP type fitting should not crack the block, you just compress the o-ring and your done.)

On reflection, there is more material down where mine ended up as the "web" for the main also runs across there. By cutting down the mount, you get into the thicker web area, and you also lower your fitting height, and make it less of a reach to tap the passage to the oil filter so you can plug it.

I like the modified oil pans I have seen lately, and if I was building my motor now, I'd for sure add a round baffle, and kick out the one side at least. (Most likely kick out both sides, add the baffle, and a crank scraper/girdle as that lowers your oil pan, and adds even more capacity to your system along with the strenght of the girdle and it's built in scraper.

All it takes it money :) and a Mill does not hurt either... And an oven to cure your coatings in... oh, basicly it never ends, and eventually you get tired of spending the money and buy a 2006 FZ1 for your speed/power needs, and the Supra remains on jack stands, waiting for me to be interested in it again...

[bwest]

Greg (or anyone else that has done this) is there a reason you went with a braided line on the pump output vs having a hardline made up using a threaded pipe fitting? I have some concerns over the hardening of the rubber over time being submerged in oil (both in and out) and cracking, leaking, etc; leading to a loss of pressure and then the motor.

Thoughts? or do you not anticipate the motor lasting long enough for that to be a problem... :)

[3p141592654]

I would think a semi-rigid hardline with swagelok fittings would be better (but more expensive).

http://www.swagelok.com

[tig321]

I would think a semi-rigid hardline with swagelok fittings would be better (but more expensive).

http://www.swagelok.com
That thought crossed my mind also. They are not cheap, but not really a huge price difference compared to AN fittings I geuss.
What do you mean by "semi" rigid?


http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=SS-810-5-8
SS Swagelok Tube Fitting, 45° Male Elbow, 1/2 in. Tube OD x 1/2 in. Male NPT
Unit Price : 40.70
Availability : Call for Availability
http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=M-810-2-8
Swagelok Tube Fitting, Male Elbow, 1/2 in. Tube OD x 1/2 in. Male NPT
Price: USD 34.50
Availability: Call for Availability

an fittings for $ comparison
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFBM4024&N=700+115&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFBM2009&N=700+115&autoview=sku
Great writeup btw. Very good info in here. I'm glad to finally find pics of the group A ban baffling.

[bwest]

There is a swagelok distributer over in Sunnyvale that I'll try to check out next week. I'll see if they have something that makes 'sense' to use.

I'm going to look into having a hard line made up with a pipe fitting on the pump end and then change the output on the pump (similar to what Greg did). Personally, a hard line vs a hose makes me feel a bit more comfortable. If I was pulling the pan on a regular basis, that would be different, but since I'm not, I would rather not worry at all.

[supra87t/t4]

Great thread!

Couple comments

" wether you are using the 5m or 7m pump, there is a clearance from the gears, to the lower case. there is a minimum and maximum tolerance. what you need to do is measure that, and then have the cover machined at the machine shop to put this as close to the minimum clearance as posible"

Machining the cover won't reduce the clearance as the cover is "flat". you would have to machine the pump body itself. Odds are you'd be better off replacing an out of spec pump than trying to "fix" it.

"the pressure releif spring wears as well...this is a linear spring, so it does open before max presure is realized...it starts being compressed the moment any pressure is applied and is fully open by the max oil pressure"

I don't agree that the springs (pump relief and squirters) are "wearing" they may relax some with age, but it's not hard to design a spring to perform the same over a long long time if done right. I doub't you'd see much difference between an new and used spring, if you do the designer should be fired. Also, the spring doesn't open immediately, the reson why is that it is preloaded. The same thing adding shims does. It increases the cracking pressure. The free length of the spring is longer than the length when it is installed so it has some static force on it keeping the ball forced closed. You have to have enough pressure to overcome that force before the valve will open at all. Good call on the squirter springs though, I've seen a few with metal shavings stuck in the springs (machinist must not have removed them before flushing the galley) at least inspect them carefully.


I'd be nervous about the stainless hose in the oilpan. You have to make sure that braided lines aren't touching anything or they will wear right into it. As for the swagelock stuff there's no reason to get that fancy, if you want hardlines just use an AN tube nut and flare the tubing. Hhmm, that would be a pretty nice product if you got a batch CNC bent and put all the fittings together as a kit.

Glen

[Mr.PFloyd]

why isn't this stickied yet?

[ViR2]

any one know where I could buy a copy of Group A magnesium oil pan?
I didn't want make a new topic so I've posted in this one ;)

[QWIKSTRIKE]

arnout over in the netherlands makes a girdle and a windage tray IIRC....if a scraper isn't your thing.

IMNSHO the #1 fix is the stupid oil filter mount....next to a properly rebuilt engine, of course.


I concur with the good DR

[QWIKSTRIKE]

Great thread!

Couple comments

" wether you are using the 5m or 7m pump, there is a clearance from the gears, to the lower case. there is a minimum and maximum tolerance. what you need to do is measure that, and then have the cover machined at the machine shop to put this as close to the minimum clearance as posible"

Machining the cover won't reduce the clearance as the cover is "flat". you would have to machine the pump body itself. Odds are you'd be better off replacing an out of spec pump than trying to "fix" it.

"the pressure releif spring wears as well...this is a linear spring, so it does open before max presure is realized...it starts being compressed the moment any pressure is applied and is fully open by the max oil pressure"

I don't agree that the springs (pump relief and squirters) are "wearing" they may relax some with age, but it's not hard to design a spring to perform the same over a long long time if done right. I doub't you'd see much difference between an new and used spring, if you do the designer should be fired. Also, the spring doesn't open immediately, the reson why is that it is preloaded. The same thing adding shims does. It increases the cracking pressure. The free length of the spring is longer than the length when it is installed so it has some static force on it keeping the ball forced closed. You have to have enough pressure to overcome that force before the valve will open at all. Good call on the squirter springs though, I've seen a few with metal shavings stuck in the springs (machinist must not have removed them before flushing the galley) at least inspect them carefully.


I'd be nervous about the stainless hose in the oilpan. You have to make sure that braided lines aren't touching anything or they will wear right into it. As for the swagelock stuff there's no reason to get that fancy, if you want hardlines just use an AN tube nut and flare the tubing. Hhmm, that would be a pretty nice product if you got a batch CNC bent and put all the fittings together as a kit.

Glen

I agree Glen...This IMHO is just an itch for issues that need not be addressed if a larger pipe can be made. Go to an aeroquip shop...they have made me hard pipes like this for my new turbo

[williamb82]

anyone found out the thread needed on the 7m block yet where the oil enters from the oil pump? i have a 7m block torn down now and dont want to take the whole thing tot he hydralic line shop to get the right fittings. lol. i figure someone may have found this out already. if not ill be sure to post it when i find out.

[williamb82]

i updated the thread sizes in the first post. i did it today and put the correct sizes needed. also, if youd like the line, preasembled and the fittings together as a direct bolt in kit, pm me!

[bwest]

Will-

are you talking about a soft line set-up? Or are you going the hard-line route? When I get my block back from the machinest I was looking at doing a hardline set-up (don't trust the braided line over the long run).

Thanks for doing the research for all the thread sizes - this will speed up assembly greatly.

[williamb82]

nope, i did soft line, as i said, its good to 300deg f and 1000psi pressure, itll be fine. and the way i did it it cant move or touch anything. the line isnt a buttle rubber. its some type of neoprene composite the gy said. he said it is chemical resistant and oil wont wear it out or deteriorate it.

[bwest]

could you post up a little more info on that type of line you are using?

Thanks-

[williamb82]

http://www.xrp.com/XRPCatalog.pdf

[drumminforev]

What is the point of crank scrapers and where do they go

[williamb82]

they keep the oil from whipping up in the engine and creating drag. and they mount between the block and oil panthey SCRAPE the rotating assembly of the oil mist.

[drumminforev]

they keep the oil from whipping up in the engine and creating drag. and they mount between the block and oil panthey SCRAPE the rotating assembly of the oil mist.

By whip do you mean to stop oil from foaming?
When are these neccessary to install.

Edit: well i was just reading....So the crank doesnt actually sit submersed in oil then right? Im guessing there are oil squirters all above it to keep it lubed?

Why not just have a windage tray below the crank?

[Mr.PFloyd]

william any update on the squirters springs? I called yota and they said they only had 1 left and that it was in BC. help? :(

[bwest]

By whip do you mean to stop oil from foaming?
When are these neccessary to install.
They are never 'neccessary' per se, but if you were going to do it, the pan has to be off...

Edit: well i was just reading....So the crank doesnt actually sit submersed in oil then right? Im guessing there are oil squirters all above it to keep it lubed?
The oil-squirters are at the bottom of the cylinder's and shoot oil on the bottom of the piston for cooling. they have nothing to do with crank lubrication. only gte's have the squirters- the ge's don't (as a general rule).

Why not just have a windage tray below the crank? want to build one?

[NashMan]

if i was to mass make this hard line whoudl poeple buy it still don't trust braid line in there thou i have bena warned about it

[loki2043]

why is it a good idea to replace the springs in the oil squirters? do they get stuck shut? either way if the ge's dont have them and the early gte's dont either then why the big deal?

[williamb82]

well, actually your replaceing the bolts that hold the squirters in. they have a check valve that runs off a spring inside them. springs wear with age and begin compressing earlier then origonally intended. which means they open at lower pressures then intended and hurt the oil flow to the bearings at low rpm's where oil pressures are lower. idle as well. i need to order some myself, i figured theyd be special order from japan. not surprised in the least there arnt any in stock stateside.

[loki2043]

hmm that makes sense. well let us know if and where you find some. ill be needing those here very shorty. worst comes to worse just get a bolt and block them all off, no? is it needed anyway?

[mk3forme]

There are alot of people that block them off to increase oil pressure. Even IJ was comtemplating doing this, but didnt have the oil passages in his Pauter rods, so decided to keep them.

[Mr.PFloyd]

part number for the squirters 15708-42010

[927mgtepat]

Here is my set up so far, not sure if it has ever been done before. I like the idea of changing over to AN fittings and aeroquip line instead of metal feed tube.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/481/ocl10uo2.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/562/picture012ar1.jpg

[mk3forme]

Wow 927! Thats beautiful. Nice work. I would hate to run that thing and get it dirty

[927mgtepat]

Wow 927! Thats beautiful. Nice work. I would hate to run that thing and get it dirty
Im going to do my best to keep it clean, no driving in the rain :) I wonder how much i could sell it for?????

[mk3forme]

oh I dont know. a grand or so.:biglaugh: Let me know im in for that price

[927mgtepat]

oh I dont know. a grand or so.:biglaugh: Let me know im in for that price
I was just wondering after reading that post on here of that kid paying 10,000 for one. LOL

[debrucer]

and heres the page of the tsrm that has the part number for the bolt for it that contains the spring. the bolt is labeled number 250.

I quit reading with the above statement and quickly scanned the next seven pages to see if anyone pointed out the mistake. It appears to be a good article, actually, a good thread; however, the number 250 in NOT a "label" or a "part number".

That is the TORQUE... #1 (#2, #3) where #1 is Kg-cm, #2 is ft-lb, and #3 is N-m (whatever that means)...

It's hard to imagine people are actually torquing things properly when they don't know how to read the shop manual. I guess there are other ways to find the torque, and there is a generic chart in the TRSM that tells you for metric diameter and thread pitch what the appropriate torque spec is; however, the best way is to look up the specific bolt (nut, or thread) and this is where you find it.

I will re-read the article later... I'm quite sure it's got good content; but this seemed glaring to me.

David

[arz]

Heres what I did.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130057_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130058_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130060_resize.JPG

I made a -10 alunimum hard line with a flare at one end and a half inch comnpression fitting at the other end. I dilled the stock (BSP) compression fitting out to match 1/2 NPT pipe size. I didnt want to risk getting chips in my already built motor or possibly cracking the block like "Adjuster" did.

heres a photo of the pipe.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130008_resize.JPG

I cut the compression ring off of the stock tube and drilled out the stock nut so the bigger aluminum hard line would fit in it and compress the 1/2 inch compression ring
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130010_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130012_resize.JPG

heres a photo of all the measurements starting with the stock measurements.


http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130021_resize.JPG
^^^this would prove to be the smallest diameter in the whole stock plumbing^^^
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130024_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130025_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130037_resize.JPG
^^^killing 2 measurments with 1 photo^^^
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130038_resize.JPG
Notice above the stock compression fitting is the smallest diameter. These holes for the Banjo bolt would seem to be another limiting factor but there are 4 holes at .27 diameter this equals .2288 in sq area, it could be argued that the flow thru the banjo fitting is the real limiting factor but the inside diameter of the pipe at .444 dia has an area of .1548 sq in.

Here are all the numbers for the parts I modified.
This is the diameter of the fitting I drilled out.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130031_resize.JPG
Killed another 2 birds with 1 photo
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130035_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130032_resize.JPG
This .504 dimension above appears to be the minimum diameter now, this diameter has a sq area of .1995 inches for a difference of .0447 sq in. The numbers dont appear to be so big but it works out to a 29% increase in square area between the pump and the filter.

Following are some more photos for comparison sake.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130025_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130045_resize.JPG
I disassembled the new oil pump I washed and degreased it thuroghly
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130048_resize.JPG
I was very surprised to find this.... see below
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130050_resize.JPG
^^^do you see what I see^^^ This is a new Toyota pump purchased from the dealership.

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130052_resize.JPG
I got them out with a pick, but they were so small I lost a few.

I had to measure them for posterity.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130053_resize.JPG

[arz]

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130062_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130064_resize.JPG
Heres all the numbers again in one place
Smallest diameter in the stock system .444 dia has an area of .1548 sq in.
New smallest diameter in my design .504 dia has an area of .1995 sq in.
Difference of .0447 sq in. This equals a 29% increase.

After thuroghly diving into the stock lubrication system I am amazed more 7M's dont suffer the dreaded rod knock fate. From the stupid oil pump bypass spring to the spring pressure of the oil squiters to the oil cooler itself I am blown away they would think this is sufficent.

Im sure it has been covered before but I wanted to state it again in as few words as possible.

The stock oil cooler is a piss poor excuse for an oil cooler. The way it is designed is, if there is an over pressure between the pump and the filter some oil is bled out into the cooler and returned to the oil pan, so basically your oil gets cooled when your oil bypasses the filter and barely cools the engine at all. When your oil is the hottest and thinest it will never see the oil cooler.

It should also be mentioned that an off the shelf (joe blow consumer AN fitting, as opposed to an actual military spec AN fitting) -10 AN fitting will never have the same inside diameter as each other. I had a box full of -10 AN fittings and they all had a little different inside diameter some even had a smaller inside diameter than .46 inches. The ones I did use (coming out of the oil pump) I had to drill out to get them over .5 inch inside diameter. Just thought I should share that.

[mk3forme]

all I can say is wow ARZ! Your talents obviously go farther than brakes! That is beautiful work. Well thought out! Im PM'ing you.

[loki2043]

woohoo 7 of those oil squirter bolts w/springs left in the us. and I just took 6 of them :) for a lovely 50 bucks.

[QWIKSTRIKE]

Arz so far has the best design.A pipe of hard metal rather than braided hose is so much more comforting.Also more of a fail safe design:biglaugh:

[mk3forme]

I agree. I would feel much less concern with a hard pipe vs a hose, braided or not. Also Arz I was wondering what is the ID of the new 90 coming out of the oil pump. I didnt see a measurement on that. Looks like it might be smaller than everything else. Hard to tell for sure by pics though.

[arz]

Yea I did have a photo of that but for some reason I didnt post it. I will tonight. But if you remember I did say that some AN fittings were smaller than .5 inch inside dia, that was one of them, notice in the photo below I drilled that out to a little bigger, it was still bigger than the .504 found in the stock fitting I drilled out.

EDIT: here you go is this what your looking for?

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130045_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130054_resize.JPG
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Forged_motorbuild/04130055_resize.JPG

[927mgtepat]

Very nice

[jdub]

Nice work Andy...as usual ;)

[mk3forme]

Also Andy I was wondering. Im sure aluminum is probaby cheaper and lighter but couldnt you also use copper tubing? I think the walls would be a bit thicker and make bending into shape a bit more of a challenge. Is there any issues with oil and copper? Maybe it wouldnt be a good idea to add another type of metal to everything in our motors now? It seems alot of the round gaskets on banjo bolts and such are copper. I dunno, just a thought.

[JustAnotherVictim]

A kit maybe Andy?? :)

[bowsercake]

I lost my engine due to rod knock. I know it was more my fault than anything. So, I am rebuilding and I would really like to prevent oil starvation in my new engine because I will be road racing it.

I have ordered a new oil pump. Should I also get the oil squirter bolts? Can someone confirm the part number for these?

I've been looking for something that can be easily done to improve oil pickup. I've heard about people dropping the oil pump pickup maybe 1/4 to 1/2 an inch. One guy said that he just bent the pipe to lower it. Does anyone have an experience doing this? What would I need to do?

[arz]

Yea Im looking into having them made out of Stainless. Yea I know copper reacts with fuel and they do use it for the seals on fuel lines and banjo fittings but I dont want to use it as a conduit. That would be kinda ghetto. Copper is for houseold plumbing not Hotrod plumbing.

A kit maybe Andy?? :) Im working on it as we speak. I have the models at my machinist. I have designed a complete BOLT ON system. I hate the buy this then buy that design. It will obviously look a little different but you wont have to tap anything you will just bolt on my custom parts and you too will see about a 30% increase in area also.

I will keep you posted.

[mk3forme]

Oh Andy I hope you come up with something soon. I can't wait much longer. Any ideas at all on price and availability?

[starscream5000]

I will so be all over this kit when you offer it... Any ball park figures on the price?

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

This man Arz is a flippin genius. Quit your day job and continue making stuff for us :rofl:

[arz]

Thanks a bunch for the compliments, but just wait, You aint seen nothin yet.

[mk3forme]

Any time frame on this possible kit Andy? I dont mean to sound inpatient but im inpatient.:naughty: Also any idea on price. My budget is already shot so im trying to guage what I can and cant get by with. Thanks

[arz]

Sorry but no, all of my contacts were on holiday today.

Im sorry but I dont have a price either but I cant quote anything until I get quotes back from the CNC tube bending guy.

Even if they are high I will still make the tubes myself. I found some stainless tubing and my buddy had dies so I was able to make some test parts and am waiting on quotes from the CNC bender guy before I comit to doing them myself.

[Mo87NA]

This guy is unbelievable. I hope you have this kit ready by the time I go to install my modified oil pan and crank scraper. It's gonna be a PITA to do with the motor in and doubt I'd go through the trouble of taking everything apart again to install the this kit lol

Mo

[mk3forme]

I know you are trying Andy and I appreciate your efforts! I will be watching closely for more info.

[927mgtepat]

what we need to get is a replica of the group A pan. I was working on Canton racing to make and produce a pan, someone was going to check into it cause he lived near them but never heard anything.

[arz]

what we need to get is a replica of the group A pan.

I have been holding off on saying anything but since you brought it up, here you go.

I have considerable design experience with aluminum castings, and I have looked into it but didnt want to comit to it because the tooling expense is huge.

If there is a serious interest in the Group A Pan design I would consider making it if I could get 15 people to prepay at least 200 bucks a piece, I anticipate that to be close to (but not limited to) 50% of the price of what I could/would sell them for. My target price would be the price to less than $500 (maybe) if possible and not sell following units for less than the initial price (to make sure all the first guys dont get jammed by lower prices later). My actual target is $400 but we will see, I dont want to promise anything.

This pan design would be a long term effort resulting in probably not seeing your parts for more than 4 to 6 months. I plan on a windage tray and hinged baffled trap doors, Im not going to do it unless its right.

The design might not have a kick-out on both sides, possibly just the side with the sump closest to it with the rest of the volume being made up by dropping the aft portion of the oil pan.

If there is any serious interest in a cast aluminum pan PM me. If I get enough SERIOUS pm's I will seriously entertain producing this product.

Since this might possibly be a community endevor I will promise to keep you up to date on all of my design milestones, IF this becomes a GO.

[bwest]

As much as I would prefer the GpA pan, I don't think that a $400 replica would sell fast enough to make it worthwhile effort.

Personally, I have no issue dropping $400 today for a pan - but in 4-6 months my motor will be back in the car (should be within the month). I don't know too many people that would want to pull the motor to swap a pan (I wouldn't want to), or have the motor out often enough to warrant buying a pan now to swap in later. My educated guess after being a supra owner for the last 6 years is 20 or fewer people have their 7m's out more than once a year over the course of car ownership (this is a floating number, I'm sure it gives and takes a bit as car ownership rolls over).

Again, I think it would be great to have a better pan design, I would just hate for Arz (or who ever would decide to build it) to get stuck with a unit that they sold 1x every 3 months and it take 4 years to break even on for the tooling.

If the community made a financial effort to support such an investment (like with Randy's subframe mounts), I could see doing it. I would be disappointed as an owner to see someone make the effort and then get shafted because people bailed after they realized that swapping a pan is more involved than a set of cams...

I don't want to be a party pooper; just voicing my concerns. If that many would be interested, this would be a great time to show some support and pony up the cash...

[bwest]

btw - any update on the pump output kit?

Thanks-

[arz]

Everything is still out for quote, its only 1 day since my last update.:icon_bigg

Thanks for your honest opinion, I am in agreement about the number of people that are interested thats why I threw it out there. Just incase I was wrong.

[arz]

OK heres the deal.... my machinist has the tools for cutting these special threads now and I have a quote back from the CNC tube bender. Looks like the price will be $129.00 for the complete kit to run a hard line from the oil pump to the block with my special AN fittings. Both ends will be 37deg JIC flare and the tube will be flared and the B-nuts and tube sleves already installed.

Before I cut the CNC bender guy and My Machinist loose I need to know how many people are interested in this product.

The complete kit will consist of:
2 steel special AN fittings
a Jamb nut,
2 tube nuts (B-nuts)
and 2 tube sleeves
with the pre-bent and flared tube (all nuts and sleves installed) of course.

This will be a bolt on kit and will only require the application of teflon tape at the threads. I will have pictures of the kit some time this weekend hopefully.

What I need to know ASAP:
Who is interested in this kit and if you are willing to buy right away? You dont need to pay at this moment, just a gentlemans agreement that you will pay for this as soon Im ready to ship them. I will provide photos of the parts ASAP.

The first batch will be pre-production parts and look slightly different than the CNC bent tubing, but will function and perform exactly the same.

Lead time on the parts will be between 1-2 weeks before I can ship them.

The price will be $129.00 plus shipping and handling.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[bwest]

I'm ready right now....

[starscream5000]

Me too ;). You have my word, I just cashed in my stocks and my next paycheck (this wedsday) will also have a decent bonus on it.

Edit:: A cheaper solution that is offered for our oil pans right now (if you all weren't aware of) is this: Dr. J can have two extra spaces welded onto the stock oil pan giving the an increase in volume of around ~1 quart, but I don't think there are any added baffles (not sure).

[Boosted Supra]

I am IN

I'm mad because last year when I was re-sealing my oil pan (engine was out), I could've done this and modify my oil pan to boot. Sucks Ass

[mk3forme]

a couple of questions ARZ. Is the tube still aluminum? and also how are you getting around, we the consumer having to drill and tap the oil pump housing but still keeping the .50 ID or larger of all the components in question. Also I defintely would like to see pics. Thanks And more than likely Im in tooooooooo!!!

[arz]

also how are you getting around, we the consumer having to drill and tap the oil pump housing but still keeping the .50 ID or larger of all the components in question.

I am designing custom AN fittings that match the exact threads in the pump and the block. My Machinist had to buy very specific tooling to match the rare thread in the block. The Thread coming out of the pump isnt so rare its just that no one makes a 90deg metric to AN adapter and there isnt enough room to do it straight. It would run hard into the oil pan. Also I am increasing the inside diameter so much that only steel parts will be strong enough.

If your not familar with my other products, Im not a fan of needing to customize new (already custom) parts in order to make them work.

I am the one specifying every detail on this kit. My Macninist is modifying an existing AN fitting he will make sure the entire part is to my exacting specifications. My designs specify a larger inside diameter than "off the shelf" AN fittings, and definately larger than the original tube.

The "new" tube will be made out of hydraulic grade seamless tubing. Same there, the inside diameter will be as big or bigger than the dimension I show on my one-off custom aluminum tube.

This kit will meet or exceed the 30% increase I have shown on my custom tube install.

[JustAnotherVictim]

Wow you got that done fast. Are these ready to be made right now?

[arz]

I should have some parts done this weekend. But not enough to send them out just yet, I need to get a few small doo dads then I will post photos of the finished product.

[JustAnotherVictim]

Well you may have this done in time for me to actually use one. :D

[slow supra]

Hi Arz, I would interested in 2 sets. I have customers that I have been building engine for lately. thanks, Jim

[mk3forme]

Wow Andy im really looking forward to seeing pics of this new setup your explaining. It sounds very trick. I thought your original design was pretty awesome but it sounds like you have made it exceptionally better! And I know all about rare threads in these blocks. Those 2 little plugs on the exhaust side of the block are 1/8 british pipe thread. It took me forever just to find out what they were, then finding someone that could get a tap. It was $30 just for a tap.

[Mo87NA]

I'm down. Let me know when they're done and where I can send the money.

Mo

[williamb82]

The Thread coming out of the pump isnt so rare its just that no one makes a 90deg metric to AN adapter and there isnt enough room to do it straight.
oh really? local hydraulic line shop here has them in stock. i bought 2 of them friday. fits the pump and has a 8an on the other end. end wit hthe pump has a lock nut on it to hold it wherever you clock it.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/williamb82/metrictoan.jpg

[mk3forme]

Interesting William. What is the inside diameter of that 90?

[williamb82]

ill check when i get home. i know its not the 0.5 he has. but for most 8an will be more then sufficient.

[mk3forme]

I dont know. Im not sure of the conversion between AN and inches but I wouldn't think 8 AN would be much bigger if any than stock.

[arz]

AN - (dash) sizes are based on tube sizes they are. The symbol "-" (dash) is commonly used in the aircraft industry, when used in a sentence referencing drawings "Whats the next dash number?" you would be asking whats the next assembly? When used in a sentence referencing AN fittings you would be asking whats the next size of tubing/fitting.

AN dash sizes are directly related to the outside diameter of a tube and refer to 16th of an inch, so a -8 would be a 1/2 inch OD (outside diameter) tube. The inside usually depends (in the automotive world) on what material the part is made of, in the aircraft industry it is a very consistant number controlled by a military spec. Most of the -8 aluminum fittings I have seen are about 3/8 ID (inside diameter) obviously automotive fittings will vary because they are not controlled by a military spec.

I am still working on it (the tube assembly) I was at the machine shop until 9:00 last night. Waiting on one little piece. I might have photos tonight, sorry for the delay.

[pimptrizkit]

awsome thread guys,. i hope i can afford the extra cash to upgrade this area when i pull my motor back out for thr 15th time this year..

[Doward]

arz, I'm pretty damned interested in how that tube comes out :)

[arz]

Yea I found that, just yesterday myself. The problem is I havent made sure the jamb nut wont force the fitting into the side of the oil pan.

Sorry for the delay on the photos, a few things came together and a few fell apart.

If you are going to use -8 why change it at all? Chances are -8 is smaller than the stock line.

[mk3forme]

Man the suspense is killing me!

[williamb82]

the 8an doest have the crush bends in the tube. i doubt those bends on the stock pipe are the same as an -8. also, on the 5m, it has mor bends, and since i have it in a mkii, i have to use the 5m pump and pan. i may goahead and do everything on mine in 10 because of the power level im going for, but 8 should be sufficient.

[Adjuster]

That is a BSP 90 fitting.
I have the AN10 sized one on my pump. Not really sure it's needed, but that's where I ended up.

ARZ's tube setup appears to be a better deal however. :)

The pan clears it, and you can slightly turn the pump, and bend everything to fit with minimal issues.

Looks like this on the pump in place with the hose/fittings I used.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Adjuster/7MGTE/PICT0090.jpg

[arz]

Ok I finally have a finished product to show you guys. These are made with .049 wall hydraulic tubing. After making the Aluminum tubing I found more than one source that stated that it wasnt rated for any more pressure than 50 psi. This new stuff is rated at over 1000 psi so I think you will be safe. To all of those that think they will try this by themselves, I say "Go Right Ahead" This was a total PITA!!!

You have to be right on the money for the width and the angles and the height. On top of that you have to miss the oil pan. I must have thrown away 20 feet of tubing trying to nail this down. Now I can see exactly why the factory line has that kink in it. That was were they got all of their tolerance from.

Now for some good news.

I should have parts ready to mail by Wednesday March 7th. BTW the theoretical minimum inside diameter is .527 which is quite a bit bigger than the 30% stated before.

Now for the bad news.

I havent been quoted a price on the tubes, I have a ballpark figure but no hard and fast quote. I can assure you that the price wont increase by more than 15%. I hope that this dosent push this product out of the affordability range. It is far superior than the stock component.

Sorry I couldnt bring my shiny motor down to the tube shop, sorry for the dirty motor photos.

Hope you like it

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05020025_resize.jpg

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05020026_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05020019_resize.JPG

[mk3forme]

I like it! Now all we need is a final price

[arz]

I should have that by Tuesday or Wednesday.

[bowsercake]

Anyone running the braided stainless steel line on their motor? That seems to be the easiest/least expensive option.

[JustAnotherVictim]

Look at the top of the page foo.

[mcoleman5]

OK heres the deal.... my machinist has the tools for cutting these special threads now and I have a quote back from the CNC tube bender. Looks like the price will be $129.00 for the complete kit to run a hard line from the oil pump to the block with my special AN fittings. Both ends will be 37deg JIC flare and the tube will be flared and the B-nuts and tube sleves already installed.

Before I cut the CNC bender guy and My Machinist loose I need to know how many people are interested in this product.

The complete kit will consist of:
2 steel special AN fittings
a Jamb nut,
2 tube nuts (B-nuts)
and 2 tube sleeves
with the pre-bent and flared tube (all nuts and sleves installed) of course.

This will be a bolt on kit and will only require the application of teflon tape at the threads. I will have pictures of the kit some time this weekend hopefully.

What I need to know ASAP:
Who is interested in this kit and if you are willing to buy right away? You dont need to pay at this moment, just a gentlemans agreement that you will pay for this as soon Im ready to ship them. I will provide photos of the parts ASAP.

The first batch will be pre-production parts and look slightly different than the CNC bent tubing, but will function and perform exactly the same.

Lead time on the parts will be between 1-2 weeks before I can ship them.

The price will be $129.00 plus shipping and handling.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


I am interested in buying one, just let me know when its available

[starscream5000]

I'm still in ;).

Just to clarify things: There will no drilling and tapping in new threads like previous design correct? If so, it will not flow as much as you previously inteded, but it will still be better than what we had right?

[arz]

There will no drilling and tapping in new threads like previous design correct?
Correct!!!

If so, it will not flow as much as you previously inteded, but it will still be better than what we had right?

Incorrect! I fully intend for this to be better (bigger) than all the measurements I showed on my original aluminum tubed design.

[starscream5000]

But there would be a restriction where the fittings screw into the block and oil pump right?

[arz]

NO!!! It should be better than .510 Inside dia

[mk3forme]

can you post some pics with measurements like you did with your original design?

[arz]

I would, but all the parts (even my prototype parts) are still at the machine shop and the tube bending shop and each shop is at the opposite end of town. Dont worry I will thuroghy document it. Like I said Im shooting for a minimum inside diameter of .510 inches.

[williamb82]

problem is the hole to the oil filter tapers down to less then 0.5in. so theres your restriction. i plugged that hole wit ha 1/2in press in pipe plug. the hole below it which is used for the oil cooler feed on n/a's, is directly from the pump. i intend to drill and tap that for a 20mm to 10an fitting. and the passage to that from the pump and the pump outlet im doing the same, and runing a 10an line from the pump to that fitting. then a 10an into the block. all my oil lines will be 10 an. i figure since this will be transfered to my race motor when done might as well just go all out on it. 8an should be fine, but i figure 10an cant possibly hurt.

[arz]

^^^Yea I hear ya!!!^^^

I didnt say anything about the stuff I dont touch. Im saying from the Oil Pump to the Block the line will (should be) bigger than .510 inches inside diameter. Thats quite a bit bigger than what was there before and without a banjo fitting.

BTW I finally got the quote back and I will be able to sell these complete kits for $129 + shipping and handling.

Again I wont have parts until Wednesday night at the earliest and be able to ship Friday or Saturday at the earliest.

I will start a new thread and post a link in this thread when I have parts in hand. I have enough parts for 9-10 kits to ship right away, they will be first paid first shipped. It will be about a 1 week wait for the next 10 to be finished. If you need yours right away get on this ASAP. I know I had more than 10 people that expressed interest in this forum and a few more that just PM'd me directly.

Im not holding out on the next 10 parts, I just wiped out the local supply of -10 fittings, they said it will just be a couple of days before they get them restocked.

[mk3forme]

post your paypal address Andy. I want to be in on the first 10!

[starscream5000]

:werd:

[JustAnotherVictim]

I'm in.

[arz]

Please Pm me first with your ZIP code so I can send you the final price shipped.

[arz]

Sorry for no updates recently. The Tube bender promised tubes Wesnesday and obviously they dropped the ball. If you want all the details I can PM them to you but the short story is they said they will have them later today, Monday at the latest. Im very sorry for holding you guys up if your in a pinch for time. Updates will follow tonight.

[starscream5000]

No probs ;).

[mk3forme]

Yeah no problem.. My motor is not going to get built overnight anyway. We know you are trying.

[bwest]

Thanks for the update Andy.

:)

[JustAnotherVictim]

So... I shouldn't send money now?

[upgradedsupra]

I don't get why people think that the 7M has "oil issues" I run my car hard and I am sure not many people drive as far as I do let alone race it. ZERO problems period. :3d_frown:

PS: 7M is a hands down great engine and I love it! :biglaugh:

Duane

[Mr.PFloyd]

I don't get why people think that the 7M has "oil issues" I run my car hard and I am sure not many people drive as far as I do let alone race it. ZERO problems period. :3d_frown:

PS: 7M is a hands down great engine and I love it! :biglaugh:

Duane
what did you use for the oil pump line? Pm me if you could please.

[arz]

So... I shouldn't send money now?
^^^Yup you should!!!^^^

I got an update late this afternoon. The first batch of 10 are done I will be able to ship them first thing on monday. If you want to get your order in on this first batch of 10 parts it will be first paid first served.

Get on it, more than half are already spoken for.

Again Pm me your Zip and I will PM you a total price and my PP address.

Thanks

Andy Z

[mk3forme]

I don't get why people think that the 7M has "oil issues" I run my car hard and I am sure not many people drive as far as I do let alone race it. ZERO problems period. :3d_frown:

PS: 7M is a hands down great engine and I love it! :biglaugh:

Duane
I dont think anyone in this thread has problems with the 7M. But I also dont see why you wouldnt want to try to upgrade the oil system. I dont see anything but benefits from it. The oil pump is the heart of the motor. Flowing more is a positive thing.

[upgradedsupra]

I dont think anyone in this thread has problems with the 7M. But I also dont see why you wouldnt want to try to upgrade the oil system. I dont see anything but benefits from it. The oil pump is the heart of the motor. Flowing more is a positive thing.

Don't fix it if it aint broken ;)

Duane

[arz]

^^^Thanks for your conrtibutions to this thread^^^

It seems nothing ever goes 100% to plan.

Im very sorry to tell you guys that I wont be able to ship today. On Saturday I picked up the tubes, and on Sunday I went to pick up the last of the fittings, remember each are at opposite ends of town (almost a 2 hours drive from each other). I look thru the fittings and they are just not right. Im very very sorry. This is something that is just out of my control. I didnt want to chicken little everyone yesterday until I had a solution.

I finally have it all sorted out and anticipate having parts in the mail Wednesday.

Again I am very sorry for the delay. I will be keeping you guys up to date if there is any new news.

[starscream5000]

No worries, I'm patient ;).

[upgradedsupra]

^^^Thanks for your conrtibutions to this thread^^^

It seems nothing ever goes 100% to plan.

Im very sorry to tell you guys that I wont be able to ship today. On Saturday I picked up the tubes, and on Sunday I went to pick up the last of the fittings, remember each are at opposite ends of town (almost a 2 hours drive from each other). I look thru the fittings and they are just not right. Im very very sorry. This is something that is just out of my control. I didnt want to chicken little everyone yesterday until I had a solution.

I finally have it all sorted out and anticipate having parts in the mail Wednesday.

Again I am very sorry for the delay. I will be keeping you guys up to date if there is any new news.

If the thread said I "ways to help improve oiling for the 7M" then I wouldn't have said anything. It says "7M OIL ISSUES" therefore I said don't fix anything if it isn't broken.

Now back to the topic on hand :)

Some of the mods that are mentioned in this thread are great and some I have done to my own Supra but not because of the oiling issues but rather to better help oil flow. Oil in itself can be a major factor in how your car performs and the longevity of the engine.

Duane

[arz]

Well I have been rushing around all day and finally got all the parts to get the first batch of "Oil Pump Supply Kits" (thats what Im calling this mod) out the door. If you have paid you know who you are, your parts will be in the mail tomorrow. If you already contacted me about expediting shipping, please contact me ASAP so I can get the details, and make sure to check your PM's.

The current batch is completely spoken for, OMG was this mod a PITA to design and meet all of the specifications I had quoted. I have all of the bugs worked out and will have another batch going ASAP I anticipate at least 2 weeks before I will have any parts ready to ship. I cant expedite any of these new orders, they will be done when their done, sorry.

If you want to get on the list let me know ASAP.

Here are some photos

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140002_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140006_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140009_resize.JPG

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140018_resize.JPG

[mk3forme]

Man that looks beautiful Arz. Sorry I have been dorment but I have been spending every bit of spare time on polishing my head. Am I on the first batch list? I know I havent payed yet but I did PM you about the shipping and all?

[Mr.PFloyd]

how much shipped to 3406 Wild Cherry Lane, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, l5n7n5.

[starscream5000]

did you have the design of the tube changed again? Looks like it, is it still the same ID size?

[arz]

Man that looks beautiful Arz. Sorry I have been dorment but I have been spending every bit of spare time on polishing my head. Am I on the first batch list? I know I havent payed yet but I did PM you about the shipping and all?

Im very sorry I did say "First paid first served". Im sorry to tell you they are completely sold out.

did you have the design of the tube changed again? Looks like it, is it still the same ID size?


Yes the design changed, its just all part of the process. The ID is .527 IIRC I will post exact numbers tonight.

The next batch will take "AT LEAST" 2 weeks to finish. Im NOT saying I will have parts to ship in 14 days, Im saying "AT LEAST!!!" I might actually be finished earlier but with all the rushing, this was a miserable job. I would not have had near as many problems if I wouldnt have rushed it. I really put quite a bit of pressure on myself and my vendors because they said they could meet a deadline, then I would tell you guys about it and then they would drop the ball "EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!"

Like I said before I have all the bugs worked out and Im very happy with how they fit. I am working on the next batch but I cant rush my suppliers, it causes nothing but headaches. If you want in on the next batch just be aware it will be "AT LEAST" 2 weeks. Believe me this was no small feat!!!

Thanks to all those that commited to purchasing these right away. This has provided me the opportunity to continue to offer these for sale. If your serious about these please let me know ASAP so I can gauge the numbers I should produce this next time around.

[JustAnotherVictim]

On it's way.
Thanks Andy.

[mk3forme]

im in on the next round Andy. Let me know when to pay.

[starscream5000]

Recieved notification of item being shipped, thanks!

[mcoleman5]

I received the product today and I must say this is a great looking product, great quality and outstanding craftmanship. I am going to install it on my car tomorrow, along with shimming my oil pump, and adding the Filter relocation kit with the B&M oil cooler. After this, I hope this will be the last of my oiling issues.

[arz]

Hey guys when installing these make sure the sleeves look like this. When installing its easy for the sleeve to get up inside the nut and when your torquing it down it gives resistance like its sealing but its not. Look very closely at the how the sleeve fits in to the nut so that you know what it should look like when your installing it. Another item I need to make an install thread for.

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140018_resize.JPG

Make sure it doesn't look like this

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140015_resize.JPG

If it does lift up on the tube like this while you tighten the tube on to the AN fitting.

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140016_resize.JPG

On some oil pans this threaded part spot welded into the pan gave some interference. This pan shown does not but on the pan I use for the tool at the Bending shop does, you can either torque it until the flat of the nut is parallel with the axis of the crank or you can clearance that welded nut (part spot welded in the oil pan) with a die grinder.

http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/05140011_resize.JPG

Use Teflon tape on the BSP thread, (the tapered one) and use silicone on the threads between the nut and the end of the fitting. Put the silicone on the threads on my part, NOT ON THE OIL PUMP THREADS. You don't want any silicone in the oiling system.

I will show a photo of this later, sorry I don't have one now.

Also be nice to these parts when installing just because they have a big hex on them doesn't mean you torque the crap out of them. Remember they only have to seal oil pressure not hold a wheel on a car.

[JustAnotherVictim]

Got mine today, looks great!
Stupid fedex shipped it to the wrong address even though you had it written down correctly.

[starscream5000]

Got mine in last week too, thanks!

[927mgtepat]

Has anyone got their engine running with this on it yet? Just wondering the differnce in oil pressure?

[bwest]

My engine runs great, when I push the stand around...lol

I was wondering the same thing. It looks hot tucked around the oil pump though.

[slow_yota]

Arz I'm interested in buying a kit, When will the next batch be available?
paypal addy?
total cost?
south bend, In.
46637

[IJ.]

Has anyone got their engine running with this on it yet? Just wondering the differnce in oil pressure?
Why would there be?

[arz]

Arz I'm interested in buying a kit, When will the next batch be available?
paypal addy?
total cost?
south bend, In.
46637

Very soon, I anticipate having complete kits ready my Monday, but like I have said before. This kind of thing is completely out of my hands. You wouldnt believe how many times I have ordered things like this only to wait 2 weeks to find out that the items that show up arent what I ordered. It really does blow me away how often this exact senario happens. I get all stressed out for telling all you guys one thing and not being able to deliver on time, and there is absolutely nothing I can do. As soon as I get this next batch I will start a thread in my section to keep this thread on topic.

I feel bad I have been polluting this thread with my wears. Maybe a Mod and clean it up back to the point of my last thread and I can provide a link to my section.

We will see, dont worry I will keep you guys posted.



Has anyone got their engine running with this on it yet? Just wondering the differnce in oil pressure?
Why would there be?

I would assume there would be slight increase in pressure if you changed the over pressure spring in the pump but the whole system is still subject to the Oil Squirter check valves issue and the stock Oil Cooler Issue. As Adjusted stated his, pressure is the highest I have ever heard of. Im not 100% sure that is such a great thing (although he really hasnt overdone it "pressure wise" in my opinion), as excessive oil pressure can cause bearing gouging, but I dont think we are up into that kind of pressure and flow either. You should be shooting for just a small increase in pressure and flow. But if you are still using the stock gauge I dont even want to hear about any oil pressure quotes. The stock gauges are so unreliable and center weighted I dont think any reading from them can be trusted.

[IJ.]

Andy: I think Pat was meaning there would be a pressure increase just from the hardpipe?

Pressure is resistance to flow so the pipe would have less resistance ;)

If a motor was dropping PSI at high rpm the hardpipe might help out there but as you noted peak pressure in these motors is somewhat limited by the controlled leaks.

Still interested to see the results of the flow tests when you find time to perform them.

[namkiii]

where do you get that oil pan
please pm me thanks

[arz]

I have those Oil Pans Zinc Chromated and I install Trap doors in them to keep the oil from running away from the sump.

If your interesed in the stock pump modified like this then let me know. If your interested in a modified pan with kickouts for increased oil capacity please let me know. About mid May I will be able to dedicate time to this product, but would like to know if there are any already interested in something like this?

[bwest]

PM sent.

[Adjuster]

Looks great!

Removes the banjo bolt setup, a good possible source of restriction, and allows for other mods if so inclined to remove other possible bottlenecks in the volume going from the pump, to the actuall main galley. (my goal when I setup my system was to try and remove all passeges smaller than AN10 from the pump to the galley, and I've done it, but it was in no part easy.)

Your setup removes the possibility that the braided hose might some day fail. It also has a great ID from what I can see.

That pipe/fitting mod, combined with the side exit, remote filter/cooler setup and a shimmed pump with no bypass cooler should make for a very robust oil system for the 7M.

Do you have more photos of your oil pan mods? Or do I just need to look around more? :) LOL

The pan is not something I changed, and had I taken the time, it is a good mod for sure. (More oil around the pickup is a great idea. One that my accusump takes care of for the most part, but I'd rather have both if possible :) )

One thing that I did, and I'm not sure if it made any difference, was to port the exit of the oil pump. I removed any sharp edges, and rounded it so fluid should flow better. I also "ported" the fittings... LOL took off any sharp lips, and created venturi shapes going into them as well.. Even my 90 from the oil pump is ported. It takes very careful use of a die grinder, carbide ball, straight and taper bits, and a good face shield so you don't get chips in your eyes. I also reccomend wearing a welding cap to keep chips out of your hair, and long sleaves... etc.) If your porting alluminum, use lots of WD40. A spray to the area when your bit starts to load up cleans up the bit, and makes cutting the metal away very easy. (But the oil coated chips stick to everything, and they are sharp as needles.)

Nice work! I'd do this every time v/s the stainless hose I have now.

[arz]

^^^ Wow thanks for the compliments^^^

Im working on other stuff at the moment but I will post photos of my pan. Sorry I dont have photos of before I welded the baffle in. I know I took them I just have to find them. LOL

I ground the spot welds out that held the stock baffle in then made trap doors with hinges and then welded the stock baffle in then took it down to be yellow zinc chromated with all of my fasteners. Let me know if you guys are interested in something like this. It will be about a month before I can get on em but you get the picture.
http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pans/CIMG0693_resize.JPG

http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pans/CIMG0694_resize.JPG

http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pans/CIMG0695_resize.JPG

http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pans/CIMG0696_resize.JPG

http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pans/CIMG0699_resize.JPG

[starscream5000]

I like it, and not just for the bling factor ;). Estimate of costs/labor?

[927mgtepat]

Andy: I think Pat was meaning there would be a pressure increase just from the hardpipe?

Pressure is resistance to flow so the pipe would have less resistance ;)

If a motor was dropping PSI at high rpm the hardpipe might help out there but as you noted peak pressure in these motors is somewhat limited by the controlled leaks.

Still interested to see the results of the flow tests when you find time to perform them.
That question I posted was stupid of me, had myself a brain fart. What i was meaning to say has any one flow tested is as IJ stated.

[arz]

Sorry no flow tests yet. But this mod eliminates all the restrictions between the pump and the Filter Adapter. If you follow thru with a few more mods to the Oil system I dont see how it cant be an improvment.

[arz]

Whoo Hoo I just got the shipment of the delinquent parts. Only enough for 10 complete kits. More coming shortly. If you need em soon you better get on em. Right around half of those are already spoken for. More to follow in a week.

If you have paid and havent gotten your Oil Pump Supply kit. Please PM me to make sure I didnt forget anyone. Please include your REAL/shipping name and your SM alias. You guys keep forgetting to do that and its a PITA to try to track you down and match up an order based on your shipping address and your SM info ("IF" your sig states where you live).

They will be shipped tonight, and I will get you a tracking number unless your international (INT is USPS, sorry no tracking number)

[Jaguar_5]

Got mine in the mail today :)

All I can say is wow :love:
Fine piece of work this is!

Does anyone have this running on their engine yet? If not I hope to be the first :)

[Jaguar_5]

Hey Andy, wanna make sure I got your installation instructions right!
I'm a visual learner, so lets clarify :)

[arz]

No, No, No, and yes.

AN fittings need no sealant what so ever. The Tapered thread is where you install 2 revolutions of teflon tape (not teflon sealant or paste or puddy). On the end with the jamb nut you put silicone sealant, but only on the last few threads where it enters the Oil Pump. I will show a photo later tonight.

[Jaguar_5]

Aah ok, that makes much more sense :) Got it! Thanks!

[mrwassman]

What an awesome thread. Learned a WHOLE lot of stuff. Thanks guys

[mk3forme]

I got mine last week and it is some piece of work. I havent actually test fitted it yet but It is a top quality piece. Arz are still going to post the pic you were referring to a couple of posts up about where sealant is and isnt needed?

[mk3forme]

oh yeah and be sure you have the pipe installed the right way too. I didnt realize it will go on either way. But the oil pan wont go on with it wrong.:naughty:

[arz]

Arz are still going to post the pic you were referring to a couple of posts up about where sealant is and isnt needed?

Yea sorry for the delay, tomorrow night, first thing!!!


oh yeah and be sure you have the pipe installed the right way too. I didnt realize it will go on either way. But the oil pan wont go on with it wrong.

Yea its a very tight fit if you can look inside of the oil pan with the front and back alumminum covers off you will be shocked at how close it comes to so many parts of the pan and sump. It was a total PITA to make, glad you guys like them.

[arz]

I learned a few things along the way.

In the first post in this thread it is stated the you can shim the pump to 11mm. Im not saying thats wrong or that what I did was right. Im just stating the facts and what I did and what I learned.

First the facts.

- The stock Oil pump by-pass spring un-compressed is approximately 59mm long.

- While installed in the pump it is compressed/preloaded to 45mm long.

- The Oil pump by-pass spring stacks at just under 33mm but over 32mm

- If you install an 11 mm shim the spring only has less than 2mm to compress and bypass oil.

- this is not enough for the by-pass piston to make it to the by-pass port.

Heres a photo of the spring almost bound
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/CIMG0813_resize.JPG

Again I am not attacking or pointing out error just stating a fact.


Knowing this I decided to completely block (ie: remove the spring and install a solid rod). Upon first starting the motor I experienced over 110 psi of oil pressure at startup, setteling to 85+psi at idle and peaking well over 110 psi at less than 2500 rpms, I didnt let the motor warm up under these conditions, I wish I had. Thinking this was my problem I removed the oil pan and replaced it with a shim 9mm in thickness. I started the motor and I experienced almost the exact same thing. Just slightly less peak pressure at a warm idle. Still spiking well above 110 while rising the rpms to less than 2500 rpms. Heres a photo of my setup.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/CIMG0761_resize.JPG


Let me preface this by saying I installed an aftermarket Oil cooler sandwich plate adapter, notice the photo. Not having enough time to install an oil cooler I just plumbed the line right back to itself.

Knowing I did not want to pull the pan again, I removed the Oil Filter Sandwich plate adapter and installed stock turbo oil filter adapter. Knowing the problems with the stock oil cooler return lines I blocked that too. I put a socket head cap screw in the oil line to block any oil from being bypassed and as you could guess I got the same results. Next I removed the Socket head cap screw from the oil line and started it again. The oil pressure was a reasonable 45 psi at cold idle. The bummer is it went to a dismal 11-7psi when the oil was warm. This was all with straight 30 weight break in oil.

After consulting with a friend and his changes and results I have concluded that the greatest gains in increasing overall oil pressure can be made by installing a shim in the spring that supplies oil to the oil cooler.

I have yet to test or prove this theory but, the other motor in question was a fresh motor (Bearings, pistons rings, over bored and balanced) and had no modification to the oil pump bypass spring but had the oil cooler completely blocked. The oil pressure of this motor has not been verified by an aftermarket gauge but has been consistantly high on a factory electrical gauge.

To review 59mm minus 14mm (the amount it is preloaded when installed in the pump) equals 45mm. 45mm minus 11mm (the amount recommended for shimming) equals 34mm the stack height of the factory spring is just less than 33mm. This leaves less than 2 mm for the piston to travel. This senario probably works fine if you dont modify the spring in the Oil cooler bypass, or block off the oil cooler. Remember I installed this motor in a Datsun Z and never had an oil cooler or a place for one.

More to follow video of a pressure test between a new oil squirter nozzle check valve and a 200,000+ mile oil squirter. How they work and open might surprise you.

[empera]

ARZ have u started working on those oil pans yet? :)

[arz]

Now that this show is over with I am hitting everything as hard as possible.

There are a lot of things I can do concurrently, just wait and see. When I make progress in one area you guys will hear about it for sure.

[IJ.]

I've found a 5mm shim in the pump valve is plenty ;)

[jdub]

^^^ And that will give you 60-80 psi of pressure...make sure the rest of the oil system can handle it. For stock or light/medium mods, 5mm is plenty ;)

[IJ.]

Dub: That and Losing the Rod holes and Stock cooler circuit and running large bore -10 fittings in a full flow cooler give me my 10 psi per 1000rpm and 40+psi Hot Idle.

[arz]

IJ: What do you have for a cold idle? And what weight oil do you run?

I finally changed to a multi weight 10W-40 after the break in. I still need to do a leak-down but by all visual reports it seems that I have no smoke at all during accell or decell. Yeaaa!!!

[mk3forme]

Andy you might want to talk to Dub about oil:biglaugh:

[IJ.]

Andy: 55+ psi so I'm careful to NOT rev the motor too much when cold, 10/60 Castrol Synthetic.

[arz]

While I had all the parts out I made a test fixture to test the "opening point" of the oil squirter "Check Valves" as Toyota calls them. These items are a bolt with a ball bearing held pressurized with a coil spring in the closed position the oil exits similar to the way oil would exit a banjo bolt. If you have been following this thread chances are you know all about them. Heres a photo of a set of new ones.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/CIMG0683_resize.JPG

Most of the ones in good condition seemed to open above 45psi and all seemed to flow at least a small amount as low as 10 psi. Obviously I was testing with air pressure, so it is highly possible they flow nothing until their designed pressure release of above 45psi with oil behind them. Watch the videos I find it very interesting to see how they actually operate when tested.

Heres a photo of my test rig, very simple actually, but seemed to work great.
http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/CIMG0670_resize.JPG



As promised, here are a few videos of oil squirters used and new. You might be surprised at how they perform.

First video of used Oil Squirter (http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/first_130k_oil_squirter_.AVI)

Video of New Oil Squirter (http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/new_oil_squirter-1.AVI)

Video of Good working 130,000+ mile Oil Squirter (http://arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/good_working_oil_squirter.AVI)

Video of 200,000+ mile Oil Squirter Nozzles/Check Valves (http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/200k_oil_squirter.AVI)

[IJ.]

Backs up the tests I did last year 43>45 psi. ;)

[starscream5000]

Nice tests Andy! I'm glad I'm abusing the download rates from my works T3 modem, finished each file in under 4 mins. That would take all night for just one on my home computer!

Your last link does not work for me :(. It's too bad you can't have the high pressure flow of the broken in oil squirter and the low pressure opening point of the new one all in one package...

[rot 90na-t]

wow lots of useful info here guys, keep it up..

i was talkin to jon at mdc and he said he just put a #5 SBC oil pump relief spring in the pump and that gave him 40 some psi at like 3000rpm... anyone know anything else of this?? and what other kinds of mods aside from an oil cooler and relocation kit would i need to be safe for such pressure??

sorry if im redundant at all, i didnt have time to read through every single post

[arz]

Your last link does not work for me :(. It's too bad you can't have the high pressure flow of the broken in oil squirter and the low pressure opening point of the new one all in one package...Bummer I will fix it tonight.

That one is the most shocking. It shows the valve flowing freely from as low as 10 psi. It never exhibits a definate opening point, if you had 6 oil squirters like this in your motor your bearings might seriously suffer. That one is the very reason I replaced them all.

[arz]

+200K Vid link fixed, here it is again so you dont have to go back.

Video pressure test of +200,000 mile oil squirter (http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/200k_oil_squirter.AVI)

[mk3forme]

Interesting indeed. Im curious to see what my oil pressure will be like with your mod since I dont have squirters

[IJ.]

Interesting indeed. Im curious to see what my oil pressure will be like with your mod since I dont have squirters
It shouldn't make any difference at all...... :nono:

[mk3forme]

It shouldn't make any difference at all...... :nono:
Actually I meant what my oil pressure w/o squirters vs with and with the 5mm shim in the pump. I realize this mod is more for flow and not pressure increase.

[Adjuster]

I think you lose more pressure via the stock rod bearing squirter holes than you do via the block mounted, and ball/spring regulated oil squirters.

Larger holes in the rod bearings than the squirters too. (And the LAST place you want to lose oil pressure, at the rod bearings.)

I think this oil hole design is a good part of why many 7M engines have spun rod bearings in the past. (That and running too low on oil, but combine them, and you get a easy path to rod knock via oil loss and bearing wear on the rods.)

Just my .02, but to get rid of the stock oil holes was a major reason I changed to the Pauter rods. (That and the stroker motor.)

[IJ.]

Greg: This is why I shoot for 40+ psi at idle I don't like the idea of not much lubrication without the stock Rod holes ;)

The Group A pan has a not too bad windage tray in it so splash is minimal.

[starscream5000]

+200K Vid link fixed, here it is again so you dont have to go back.

Video pressure test of +200,000 mile oil squirter (http://www.arizonaperformance.com/parts_photos/Oil_pump_line/200k_oil_squirter.AVI)


Very interesting indeed. I would rather have six of those oil squirters than six new ones as this one seems to flow (based on the sound) starting around 10 psi and all the way to 80. The others seemed like they stayed closed until 40ish, but some small flow in the lower range. What's your take on this?

[arz]

I would rather have six of those oil squirters than six new ones as this one seems to flow (based on the sound) starting around 10 psi and all the way to 80

Im not sure why you say that? Every ounce of oil that goes out the squirters does not go to the bearings. You only want the squirters to flow when the rpm's/pressure (and theoretically) the load/heat are up. The main objective of the oil squirters is to cool the bottom of the piston. Some theorize that the aerated oil might cause more foaming and possible resistance to windage than its worth in the piston cooling department.

Everybody, please add to this answer if I missed something.

[starscream5000]

Like I said, based on the sound from the video the last squirter you tested seemed to flow more evenly than the others, but the windage is a factor that needs to be taken into consideration too... And I wasn't talking about lubing the bearings, I was talking about the oil hitting the bottom of the piston to keep it cooler than a squirter that only wants to do it after the pressure gets up to about 40ish psi...

[jdub]

The squirters are basically a "controlled leak"...they will rob psi/flow from the bearings if they open up at too low a psi. You really don't need them until higher rpm to help keep the pistons cool.

[starscream5000]

Do you think the 200K squirter causes that much oil loss to the bearings? Granted I'm sure an engine with that many miles on it may have other issues with oiling too, but using those in a rebuild would unadvisable?

[arz]

Multply that leak by 6

[jdub]

^^^ Yep!

At higher rpm (especially with a shimmed pump relief valve), the psi produced (40 psi +) is more than adequate for the bearings...the squirters have little impact. It's at low rpm/psi that can be the problem...if the squirters open up too soon, it will drop pressure/flow to the bearings. That is not a good thing. ;)

[starscream5000]

Gotcha ;)

[mk3forme]

Im glad all the teachers are here today. I learn something new every day!:biglaugh:

[927mgtepat]

Is it an advantage to get one of these?

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/6m.jpg

[starscream5000]

Yes, Ian has one, I think I'll be getting one for myself to keep the mist down ;).

[jdub]

Just make sure which crank you have before you buy ;)

[arz]

I installed one on mine. The jury is still out. I thought I might notice something but it is so barely imperceptible that I was kind of surprised that I didnt notice anything just yet.

It could be that I made so many changes that I dont know if I could attribute any one change to just one thing. I went from a completely stock block to Forged Pistons and Rods, New oil squirter check valves, completely balanced assembly, added an oil pump shim, My oil Pump supply line mod, and a crank scrapper and a baffled oil pan, with several iterations of oil filter adapters and cooler lines and bypass for the oil cooler.

It definitely is not a "BOLT ON" part. You need to fit it and then you need to make sure you get it in exactly the same place during final installation, and then you need to make the pieces that go between the left and right sides of the Crank scrapper, basically you shim your oil pan about .040 inches away from the bottom of the block and the crank scrapper guy expects you to fill that gap (the front and back of the block "the curved part" that bolts to the aluminum front and rear covers) with Silicone, I didnt want to trust just Silicone so a made a piece of gasket that goes in exactly that same place and its already leaking with less than 1500 miles of use. I will probably pop it off and make an aluminum shim to do the same job next time I have the pan off.

I have been meaning to do a build thread on the Z and the Supra I have tons of photos that show what I did and would help to understand what is involved when installing a crank scrapper.

[IJ.]

I don't have mine anymore as when I briefly ran the 6M crank it was the wrong one so I pulled it and sold it and with my modded 7M crank I decided to not buy another.

The GroupA pan has louvres that do the job for me the scraper was like a Belt and Braces.

[fast 7m]

[what is the difference between 5m oil pum Vs 7m oil pump



QUOTE=spoolint78]did the same thing with my oilpan as well

well worth it.

Good info in this thread

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1203/1000393wf0.jpg[/QUOTE]

[fast 7m]

What is the 5m oil pump advantges over the 7m pump ?

[arz]

^^^Did you get my PM?^^^

Please find the post where someone said that the 5M pump is better. Use the "Quote" button in the bottom right of that post then edit the rest of his post (if its a big one) so that we can see what you are talking about.

Also please clean up your first post, so it dosent look like you posted that photo. Check your PM's I described in detail how to fix it.

[Supraholics]

Great info everyone.

I agree with most of your findings. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if I missed it, but I haven't seen this noted on this thread.

In my testing I discovered that there is a flaw in the oil pump no one has covered here yet. I could be wrong about this as it has not been tested.

As you can see in the image below, the oil pump has a second guide at the very top. This guide is not really needed, unless maybe at really high RPMs. This is lubricated by the pump, thus loosing pressure. If this hole is sealed, it should increase oil pressure without any additional mods. (have in mind this is under the assumption the rest of the oil system is functioning as designed. No worn out parts).

There's a negative part about this. It looks like this oil lubricates the guide and the pinion, but this can possibly be fix with grease for initial lubrication, followed by lubrication from the oil floating around inside the block. Another fix maybe to remove the guide seat. We'll see.

http://supraholic.brinkster.net/supra/oil_pump_opening.jpg

[arz]

Removing the guide would put the oil pump shaft in single shear. I wouldnt recommend it. I dont think I would consider this a problem, since the end fits into the guide by design, how much oil couild possibly be lost. Also how do we know the Oil pump drive gear could live with the lubrication of what is splashing around alone. This might be required to lube that gear.

[IJ.]

Great info everyone.

I agree with most of your findings. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if I missed it, but I haven't seen this noted on this thread.

In my testing I discovered that there is a flaw in the oil pump no one has covered here yet. I could be wrong about this as it has not been tested.

As you can see in the image below, the oil pump has a second guide at the very top. This guide is not really needed, unless maybe at really high RPMs. This is lubricated by the pump, thus loosing pressure. If this hole is sealed, it should increase oil pressure without any additional mods. (have in mind this is under the assumption the rest of the oil system is functioning as designed. No worn out parts).

There's a negative part about this. It looks like this oil lubricates the guide and the pinion, but this can possibly be fix with grease for initial lubrication, followed by lubrication from the oil floating around inside the block. Another fix maybe to remove the guide seat. We'll see.




Pump failure in hours using the above advice.......

[Supraholics]

Do you care to elaborate?

Pump failure in hours using the above advice.......

[IJ.]

Helical gears by nature try to seperate while running the pilot is there to prevent this, remove the pilot all the load goes into the pump body which has no bearing or bush.

Eventually it'll wear the then the pump gears will seperate under Oil pressure while they're pumping allowing them to rub the housing sides which will increase clearance and pressure will drop so on and so on until it fails or you get Rod Knock....

Why did you want to do this anyway?
(it's a 3mm bleed and from memory the bush is blind so the flow would only be past the sides of the pilot)

[mk3forme]

IJ how in the heck do you know so much?? lol

[IJ.]

Dunno that it's a case of "knowing" it's more a case of looking at how something has been engineered and why it's been done that way, there's usually a good reason for things as parts left out would reduce costs for Toyota so if it wasn't needed they wouldn't put it in....

Say for instance it costs them $5 per car to install a Charcoal Cannister add that up over ALL of the A70's built and you'll see how much could have been saved.

Along comes Cletus Street racer and for no better reason than "Ummm it looks ugly" he decides to start deleting parts with NFI what they actually do and then can't understand why his car won't run right.

I'm the last person that would say DON'T mod your car as there's very very little left on my car that's original but I would say at least get a clue before you start and don't do it cos Billy Joe Bubba Dumb Fuck did it and his car is running great ;)

[mk3forme]

I can chime into the reduce cost thing. I know this cause I work for toyota. Cost reduction is a daily expectation. If you can think of an idea to reduce cost, the Co. will pay you for your idea.

[arz]

I worked fro GM for 4 years, I saved money on several different programs, $.05 on a water pump casting, collaborated on an exhaust manifold and heat shield design, Supercharger intake manifold design, 3.8 liter fresh air inlet, and tons of other little things like that. GM and my bosses were all excited about these changes. Our department got an award every time we got numbers back from the Financial dept. Sometimes there was a party for the whole engineering department. It was a huge deal to save 5 cents on a part that they are going to make 4 million of.

When I started working at McDonnell Douglas I was tasked with redesigning the trailing edge of the Apache AH-64 longbow. There was a com (communications) port on the wing tip that was a 5 piece aluminum structure assembly that had to be riveted together. I came up with a design that made it easier to make, lighter, stronger, out of one piece, and a lot less (I don't know how much) expensive.

At GM this would have gone through a whole army of comities then, we would get approvals for the go ahead.

At Boeing (then McDonnell Douglas) I suggested the idea, my boss said, (extremely matter of fact, like) "Sure go ahead." I said "I don't need to get any approval?" he said "Uhhh, check with stress..." I did, it was fine and there was no more fan fare than that. A few months later my new design was on every Apache from there on out.

I was shocked at the difference in attitude between a company that made 4 million of one part to go in several different model year vehicles V.S. a company that made 1000 helicopters over a 20 year period.

[IJ.]

LOL always amazes me when I see parts on our cars being deleted "cos they're not needed and don't affect anything" like Toyota put them there just for fun and not that even a simple part can run into $millions$ over a production run and if they could build the car without it they would..... :nono:

[3p141592654]

If we keep going down this path the thread is in danger of becoming ITAR restricted! :)

[Supraholics]

Hey IJ, no need to start a rant because of my post. I never said this was absolutely the thing to do. Just an idea. I'm not BY FAR a mechanic and I've always said this openly. This is just a hobby for me and I'm learning everyday. I thought I would share my findings, good or not, with the members and see what they have to say.

Obviously you have something against me from what I've gather during my membership on Supramania. Why? I don't know. I guess you ARE a Grumpy Old Man...

Next time, don't waste so many words (people this and people that) and just tell me I've inconvenienced you with my lack of knowledge.

P.S - I decided not to insert any characters or icons to this post. You can read it and interpret it as you will.

[bwest]

I think Ian had a valid point at it wasn't directed completely (or solely) towards you. Its more of a thought process thing (or lack there of) that runs rampent in the modifying community. Doesn't matter if its mkiii's, mkiv's (ask the same dumbshit ?'s on SF 'which exhaust is better' 'can I run 20psi on stock 150k twins' etc), rustangs, honduhs, whatever. Don't take it so personal.

Trying to understand why something is how it is, is the first step to the question of can I/ should I modify it.

[IJ.]

DK: If I meant to address YOU I would have......

I was generalising based on past experience, you asked me to "elaborate" I did and that's where me speaking directly to you or about you ended.

I didn't realise I was ranting I actually took the time to reply and asked why you thought it a good idea (which you didn't answer)

[Supraholics]

First, I would like to apologize to the guys for taking this into OT mode...

bwest - I agree it wasn't completely directed to me, but it started, and took a twisted turn because of me. When someone starts complaining about a certain idea or attitude just after someone has made a relevant comment on the subject matter, is usually directed to that person. We all lack knowledge of something and we were all beginners at one point or another.

IJ - Here's your answer.

Information was presented. Opinion was presented. It was made clear in my first post, it was an idea and had not been tested. The idea was to seal the hole, not remove the pilot. Ideas and/or comments can be misinterpreted left and right all day. What one cannot see behind the computer screen is the intention of the person posting. Is this person writing for ego gratification? Is this person writing to genuinely help another? I always choose the later.

I felt that it would be in our best interests if I took a Martian attitude to this topic and have done so as best I can; Jupiter would have been ineffective. The information I presented, funded entirely by an idea (as stated), would likely help someone analyze what's being discussed more, accept the idea or discard it. My opinion, or anyone's for that matter, should not sway one's attitude toward a decision. Opinion is merely a secretion of emotion and any effect it has on another is an obstacle in that person's path. It is tests & experience that matters [yet how does one know if the tests or experience have been fabricated? Well, that is where intelligence(or common sense as true intelligence is known by most) comes into play]. If you are driving along and get a flat, naturally, you are going to be pissed off. However, supposing that you missed that nail by a 1* change of wheel direction, would this not be better than if you had crashed into a minivan with a family of 4 and a dog had you not have gotten a flat? Therein contains the secret of the trickster.

Thank you for the information and examples you've shared. Now, may I say maybe the next time you reply to one of my posts, you might want to analyze it and reply with a statement that elaborates on your thoughts instead of immediately labeling it as a complete failure.

Glad we all got that cleared up . And for the benefit of all, this will be my last post on this topic. Good riddance you say? Perhaps, but heed not my words lightly!

[IJ.]

Dude if I had a problem with you you'd know about it.....

You're overthinking things here to a power of 10.

I'm NOT going to analyse every single post I read here I'm sorry I'm not a young man I don't have that many years left.

Your idea was a complete failure and my elaboration pointed out why I don't see any reason to sugar coat things.

[7M-fanatic]

Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.

[tig321]

Sheesh, talk about wasting words. MKIII Driftking NONE of what IJ was talking about was directed at you, my friend. You are neither "Cletus Street Racer" Nor "Billy Joe Bubba Dumb fuck". I'm sure he was speaking more about the people who want to "clean up the engine bay" and such by removing all the "ugly" parts such as the charcoal canister he refered to,(it's obviously a peeve of his) so please just relax.

Sorry about the thread william.

Fanatic, you may want to consider an accusump. I have also made some mods to sump and decided its just damn good insurance. I'm going to give this one way screen a try also #20-906
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/windage_trays/windage_trays.html#to
p (http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/windage_trays/windage_trays.html#top)

[IJ.]

Tig: Thanks ;)

I run a GroupA Magnesium pan AND a 3 qt accusump I figure it can't hurt.

[williamb82]

Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.

dude, thats nice. same pan i need for my mkii. how much oil do each of thos kickouts add?

[927mgtepat]

Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.

Great Info. I was trying to find oil pan extensions like that. Ill haft to pick some up.

[927mgtepat]

dude, thats nice. same pan i need for my mkii. how much oil do each of thos kickouts add?

From what the web page says 1Qt each

[mk3forme]

heres a link directly to it for those who dont like to search like me. :biglaugh: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1763,124_Oil-Pan-Bulge.html

[starscream5000]

So, has that oil pan been fitted into a mounted engine yet? Any fitment issues if so?

[blk91]

I Read the first section of this thread and it mentioned replacing the the oil cooler to increase pressure, It said that there is a Thermostat that controls the coolers use, Is it required for the system to work correctly and how would i go about replacing it, I planed on doing that and a filter relocation kit to make things a little bit more oily.

[IJ.]

Blk: Stock system is pressure based a T Stat is a better way to do it but requires changing it to a full flow Cooler circuit.

[blk91]

Thanks, Is there any danger in running a full flow coolers with out T stat?

[jdub]

You will delay getting the oil up to ops temp, keeping it thicker than what you want. The bearings w/ stock clearances are designed to operate at a viscosity of ~10-11 cst. You want to reach this viscosity by getting the oil to 100 deg C as quickly as possible...that is the purpose of a thermostat.

[blk91]

Ok so it would basically be the same thing as over cooling trans fluid, I'm looking at getting one of the smaller B&M coolers that claim expose more oil to the cooler as temperature increases, That to me seems that it would function the same as a T stat, Am i right it saying that? . Another question i have had, that may have been done to death here is that My dip stick shows my oil level as being fine but when I get my oil changed me and my mechanic seem to think the amount of oil coming out seems a bit low. we are going to dump it into something graduated next time to be sure. From what i can see its a stock dipstick and nothing related to it seems modified

[jdub]

No, a smaller cooler will not function the same as a T-stat. You could exceed the thermal capacity of the cooler and the oil get too hot...that is worse. Like IJ said, to run a T-stat you have to go to a full flow cooler set-up.

[mk3forme]

Just put 6 quarts in it at your next oil change and then see where it is on your dipstick. Mark that spot and you will know where you need to be everytime you check it.

[blk91]

Yeah I was going to ask about the 6 quart thing, That is over the rated level and i was under the impression that that what was not a good thing, At this point I'm going to get a oil cooler and a T stat and a filter relocation kit, Should that make a huge difference in oil supply. I cant drop the pan for a while to replace the hose with the banjo for a while. Right now I'm just going for the freak chance of having some longevity out of a motor of unknown condition. Jdm motor with a rebuilt top end by the owner before me.

[bigaaron]

I'm NOT going to analyse every single post I read here I'm sorry I'm not a young man I don't have that many years left.

:icon_lol:

[mk3forme]

from what I have read thus far, our oil pans will hold 6 quarts w/o causing problems with the crank. Maybe some of the experts should chime in on this though.

[7M-fanatic]

from what I have read thus far, our oil pans will hold 6 quarts w/o causing problems with the crank. Maybe some of the experts should chime in on this though.

The trouble with a higher oil level than what Toyota recomends
is that it greatly increases the amount of oil that
the tornado created by the crank turning at 5000 RPM will pick up,
and carry around with it.
This not only robs horse power (kilowatts if your down under),
and does nothing to allow the air bubbles from seperating from the oil before the pump picks it up, but......
It also increases how much oil is carried out the breather by blow by.

The surface speed of the crank, even at 4000 RPM is over 5,000 feet per minute!
That will suck up oil from the pan, if the level is too high.

A crank scraper will do way more good than over filling the crankcase.
Add a windage tray, and it is even better.

Here is a picture of a 7M windage tray I missed in Japan about 5 years ago.
If I knew then how rare some of this stuff was, I would have grabbed it then.
I have not seen one since.......

[IJ.]

+1qt is NOWHERE near the crank not even close....