Bose Speaker Installation

[johnathan1]

Hello everyone, this is actually my first write up...how exciting!:biglaugh:

We all know the stock sound system totally sucks, and me, being an audiophile...well, I couldn't stand the shitty sound quality, and poor bass response, so I decided to install speakers from my favorite manufacturer, Bose. The stock speakers consist of: a 4-inch woofer, and a 1-inch tweeter (suck) in the center...I am now istalling a 5-inch Woofer, with a 2-inch tweeter, which will be re-located to behind the side-view mirror to bring the soundstage up to the dash, instead of all of the sound being directed at my knees. Bass response will be greatly improved as well.

Here's what you will need to do the Bose speaker conversion:

1. A Supra:icon_razz
2. Bose Model 21 Bookshelf speakers
3. A Dremel, or some kind of grinding/rotary tool, with various bits.
4. Black silicone, or Butyl Rubber adhesive.
5. Screwdrivers, wire-cutters, strippers.
6. Some velcro, electrical tape, and zip-ties.

1: Remove door panel, and speakerbox.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0087.jpg
A comparison shot of stock and 5-inch Bose speakers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0089.jpg

2. Hack the speakerbox with the Dremel's cutting tool, and grinding bit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0088.jpg

3. Fit Bose woofer, utilizing the stock "sound director" thingy (cut it in half and flip over) and put it under the speaker...Make adjustments/grind as needed:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0090.jpg

4. Fill any gaps between speaker and housing with silicone...A LOT of silicone...lol.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0092.jpg

5. Mount speakerbox in door:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0096.jpg

6. Extend wires leading to the tweeter and it's crossover:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0098.jpg

7. Pray the door panel will clear the speaker!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0099.jpg
It fits!!

8. Can't forget the proper badging ;).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0100.jpg

All done!

I couldn't resist:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMAG0102.jpg

[born2drv]

how does it sound? why not just buy car audio speakers? LOL

[suprastanger507mgte]

Hah, nice clean work there. I know Bose sounds great, but by changing the dynamics, does it sound as great in the car? That would be sweet.
Good write up man.

[johnathan1]

Oh sorry, i forgot to mention that they sound f-ing awesome! They really do bring the soundstage up to where it should be. And I didn't use car audio speakers, because I haven't been able to find any that I think sound good..even the Infinity's...not to mention, I have two sets of these sitting here...:).

suprastanger: Thanks! And no, it doesn't noticeably change the dynamics, because the stock speaker box has a bass port, just like the Bose enclosure. I did add some extra sound deadening to the speakerbox though.

[roadwarrior87]

cool! i wanna hear it sometime at an autobacs meet!

[bwest]

isn't the ohm load of the bose set 8? not 4ohms like all other car based audio? This would effectively 1/2 you amp output. I'm not ragging - it looks like a great install and some thought clearly went into it.

just some things to think about when searching for car speakers/ comp set-ups:

silk dome tweeters will have the smoothest response curve throughout their working range. they might not be the cleanest (like a titanium, for instance), but they will be the least shrill and offer the widest range of tuning. If you want sharpness, go buy some MBQuarts - sharpest damn tweeters i have heard to this day...

for woofers (mid-bass, what ever your fancy), I have found that the wood pulp/ kevlar cones along with a nice cast alum basket sound best (for me, I use a CDT 6.5" comp set). again, warm, smooth delivery with a wide range of tuning options.

Don't skimp on power! a good ball park figure is 125% over the rated power of the speaker. if they are quality built, they can handle this (as long as the power is clean). feeding an 80w speaker 125w @1%thd, not only will it sound shitty, but probably blow (up).

In terms of sound alignment, unless you have the equipent to properly 'aim' your sound and make appropriate changes, etc., the general rule of thumb (that I have always read and followed) is to try and get the directional sound (tweeters) as equadistant from you ears as possible. I understand how one door is closer than the next, but use your imagination :icon_bigg

again, not to say john did anything wrong (he did a great job) be before settling on locations, hook up your tweeters and move them around the cab while you have some music playing, you'll be surprised at the difference a few inches can make.

Figgie is also a good person to talk with about car audio. he's been around the game quite a while.

[johnathan1]

Thanks for the advice! I used our BMW 3-series as an example...it has tweeters in that location...as far as direction, I aimed them at the opoposite seats headrest, the best i could.

And I know silk dome tweeters are the best, as I am into studio production a bit, and I plan on majoring in that field when I start school in the Spring. I was actually using the Bose 21's as monitors for a while, they sound great! And I was able to get two pairs of them from recycler.com for ~$40 IIRC...go figure.

BTW, I have two 10" subs in the back, and I am using the stock rear speaker location to house two 5 1/4" JBL's with 1" tweeters for mid and high range (car audio speakers ;)).

[bwest]

:ttiwwp:
post up pics of the the rear then!

I'm always interested how people 'attack' the poor audio layout of our car

[MarkIII4Me]

Wow! Nice job squeezing those in there. I'm sure it sounds loads better than the factory system. What Bose speakers are those drivers out of anyway?

One question for you, why Bose? Expecially with their 8 ohm impedence. I mean, I've heard of home audio speakers used in car audio applications, namely focal and dynaudio. But Bose?

Being in both the home audio and car audio field for quite some time now, I've learned that the "magic" in the Bose speaker systems is the enclosures, not the drivers themselves. Bose is famous for its "big" sound in small spaces. This is due to them using long narrrow enclosures to produce the deeper sound normally found in larger ported systems.

I used to have a 1993 Mercedes SEL500. It had a factory Bose system installed. It was pretty elaborate. 12 speakers total includine separated 5 1/4" components in the front and rear doors, 4 5 1/4 midbase drivers across the rear deck, and a Bose tweeter mounted under the rear view mirror reflecting off the front windshield (3db boost:naughty: ). When I replaced it with an aftermarket system (royal PITA), I learned that each Bose driver had it's own tiny applifier mounted to it. I'm not sure if this is with all Bose car systems, but I believe it is. I replaced the Mercedes' sound system with MB Quart Q 6 1/2's up front running off a Butler 750 Tube Driver amp and those 2 speakers blew the 12 Bose away in every way.

Anyways, the Bose system sounded decent. I figure this is probably one of the best Bose systems ever produced for a factory production vehicle. I've heard better sound from a factory Nakamichi system in a Lexus LS400.

If you want to get the best off-axis response from a car audio specific speaker, I recommend the KEF Kar 160Q coaxials w/crossovers. Not the blue cone USA ones, the black cone british ones. Probably the best sounding plug and play car audio speakers ever made, and one of the hardest pairs of car audio speakers to come across. Maybe twice a year on ebay.

But you did a great job with the install. Very clean.
I didn't mean to hijack or downplay your thread at all. I'm just half smashed and haven't talked car audio in the longest time.

Great job! :bigthumb:

[miekedmr]

Hate to burst your bubble, but while BOSE stuff may be higher quality than most car audio gear, ask anyone who knows about DIY speaker design, and they'll tell you that in general BOSE uses mediocre parts and is horribly overpriced...
Most of the time their speakers are designed to have extra bass and treble, so they sound higher quality, while actually being less accurate.

I would recommend anyone who wants to take an "audiophile" approach takes a look at some real quality drivers like Seas, Scan-Speak, Morel...
...and way ahead of anything in price/performance are the Dayton Reference speakers made by partsexpress (VERY low distortion and advanced design for the price) or Tang Band (They make 6.5 inch subs that have 11mm of Xmax, that's on par with most 10" subs! they also have well priced drivers with titanium cones...)
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=30
and.. www.madisound.com

Another thing is that the enclosure is just as important as the speaker. To get a flat response out of any speaker, the enclosure needs to be properly sized for it. (Though you can always compensate with crossover design, but that is a bass ackwards way of doing things) Also, a stiffer, heavier MDF or fiberglass enclosure is going to do a much better job of isolating the backwave and giving you a clear sound than the flimsy plastic box that comes in the door stock. If I were doing something like this, I would at least consider reinforcing those boxes by wrapping them in FG.

Anyways, sorry, I don't mean to knock your work, it's creative, well done, and I'm sure it is a very big improvement. Best part is there was already a relatively good crossover hooked up.

But to continue ranting... I feel that people need to realize that there's a lot that goes into proper speaker design, and that typical consumer-oriented companies love to sell sub par equipment for high prices because that's the best way to profit. Beyond a certain point of sound quality, most listeners can't even tell a difference, they're just happy to pay the extra money for peace of mind. (cough cough BOSE)
When you really start to look at objective measurements like distortion levels, RMS power handling, xmax, frequency response, efficiency, dispersion characteristics, it becomes apparent that most car audio stuff (especially!) and also most store bought 'audiophile' kind of stuff is just overpriced gimmicky (square subs anyone?) junk.

The real good stuff will always be a small niche market because not many people care to do the research, and the companies making real good quality parts do not have the ability to compete in the mainstream.
The Pro audio market tends to be better, mainly because audio engineers and other people who buy the stuff are a lot better informed about what they need and what they're getting.

Again, sorry for the rant, I'm into speaker design and home recording so I go off when anything audio comes up..

edit: links:
Dayton reference (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3)
Tang Band (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&webpage_id=144)
Morel (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&webpage_id=272)
Madisound has the seas and scan speak stuff, along with other good brands. Some of it is a little too nice to put in a car, I think, but those 5" Seas silk dome concentric coaxials in the front doors would be bad ass...

[williamb82]

Oh sorry, i forgot to mention that they sound f-ing awesome! They really do bring the soundstage up to where it should be. And I didn't use car audio speakers, because I haven't been able to find any that I think sound good..even the Infinity's...not to mention, I have two sets of these sitting here...:).

suprastanger: Thanks! And no, it doesn't noticeably change the dynamics, because the stock speaker box has a bass port, just like the Bose enclosure. I did add some extra sound deadening to the speakerbox though.


try mbquarts. thats what i run in one of my cars. they sound awesome.

[bwest]

Hate to burst your bubble, but while BOSE stuff may be higher quality than most car audio gear, ask anyone who knows about DIY speaker design, and they'll tell you that in general BOSE uses mediocre parts and is horribly overpriced...
Most of the time their speakers are designed to have extra bass and treble, so they sound higher quality, while actually being less accurate.

I would recommend anyone who wants to take an "audiophile" approach takes a look at some real quality drivers like Seas, Scan-Speak, Morel...
...and way ahead of anything in price/performance are the Dayton Reference speakers made by partsexpress (VERY low distortion and advanced design for the price) or Tang Band (They make 6.5 inch subs that have 11mm of Xmax, that's on par with most 10" subs! they also have well priced drivers with titanium cones...)
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=30
and.. www.madisound.com

Another thing is that the enclosure is just as important as the speaker. To get a flat response out of any speaker, the enclosure needs to be properly sized for it. (Though you can always compensate with crossover design, but that is a bass ackwards way of doing things) Also, a stiffer, heavier MDF or fiberglass enclosure is going to do a much better job of isolating the backwave and giving you a clear sound than the flimsy plastic box that comes in the door stock. If I were doing something like this, I would at least consider reinforcing those boxes by wrapping them in FG.

Anyways, sorry, I don't mean to knock your work, it's creative, well done, and I'm sure it is a very big improvement. Best part is there was already a relatively good crossover hooked up.

But to continue ranting... I feel that people need to realize that there's a lot that goes into proper speaker design, and that typical consumer-oriented companies love to sell sub par equipment for high prices because that's the best way to profit. Beyond a certain point of sound quality, most listeners can't even tell a difference, they're just happy to pay the extra money for peace of mind. (cough cough BOSE)
When you really start to look at objective measurements like distortion levels, RMS power handling, xmax, frequency response, efficiency, dispersion characteristics, it becomes apparent that most car audio stuff (especially!) and also most store bought 'audiophile' kind of stuff is just overpriced gimmicky (square subs anyone?) junk.

The real good stuff will always be a small niche market because not many people care to do the research, and the companies making real good quality parts do not have the ability to compete in the mainstream.
The Pro audio market tends to be better, mainly because audio engineers and other people who buy the stuff are a lot better informed about what they need and what they're getting.

Again, sorry for the rant, I'm into speaker design and home recording so I go off when anything audio comes up..

edit: links:
Dayton reference (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3)
Tang Band (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&webpage_id=144)
Morel (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&webpage_id=272)
Madisound has the seas and scan speak stuff, along with other good brands. Some of it is a little too nice to put in a car, I think, but those 5" Seas silk dome concentric coaxials in the front doors would be bad ass...

slow down tiger, its ok...:icon_eek:

John was just sharing his experience with us. While those that really like to play with car audio know not only are we dealing with a technically shitty container (the car interior) but also have to have things asthetically pleasing. This will always lead to comprimise. If John would have used something other than Bose for components, i would imagine this discussion would have taken a much different turn.

While I'm sure anyone that has delt with audio comps with have their own opinion about bose, few, if any of us, are:

a) going to have the $$ for high end comps
b) going to have the ability to form the proper closure within the cars constraints and make it look good at the same time
c) have the electronic equipment needed (or know how, for that matter) to build cross-overs that fit the combination of accustic qualities of both the audio components and the car itself. and then test to make sure it all worked right.

I would go out on a limb and doubt that many people on the board can do all of the above. Truth is, almost anything is better than stock (as you mentioned). With the many set-ups i've had over the years, i found a middle ground with a comp line that i like (cost vs sound) as have many others i'm sure. Is it perfect, no. do i have the time, money and interest to make it perfect? no really - the stereo would be worth more than the car. Besides, take off the roof on a nice summer day, roll down the windows, mash the loud pedal and you have all the sound you need :love:

Car audio carries as much emotion as politics and religion (at times). Lets keep that in perspective (for all).

[miekedmr]

Good points, bwest. It's not a huge effort into the stereo when its competing with a loud exhaust, a lack of sound deadening, etc. I think however much time and money is spent, you can always do better for it by taking what manufacturers and their supporters say about their products with a grain or two of salt, and taking the time to do a little research and get advice from the experienced DIY-ers. For instance I'm sure there are people out their who buy the most expensive speakers they see at a store and mount them with no enclosures.

Like I said, not trying to knock what he did. He had the speakers, had a good idea, it was well executed and looks good and I'm sure sounds good without a ton of effort. I think it was wise to use home audio parts. Cool writeup, definitely.

but yeah, obviously I do get emotional about audio.. haha

For those of you who are looking to do something similar, I think it would be a good idea to try to reinforce the stock enclosure with some FG, and shouldn't be too hard to do. Adding some damping to the inside like Johnathan did is important.
Also, if you don't know or care to learn how to make a crossover, there are designs posted on the web for tons of different driver combinations that have been painstakingly tweaked to get the best sound, and all you have to do is buy the parts and solder them together! That way you can buy just what you need, save a little money, and not have to kill a working set of speakers.

I see that dayton reference link doesn't work. You have to type 'dayton reference' into their search bar, then the parts will come up. They are really great for the money, ($30 for a top of the line 6" mid,) the only thing is you have to have them cross over steep because they have a lot of breakup (tinny sound) in the upper frequencies because of the aluminum cones. But like I said, if you use an existing crossover design, you don't even need to worry about that.

[bwest]

Gotcha. I knew you had good intentions, and your points were valid. there needs to be more audio heads speaking out IMO - its good for the community when people have real experience accross a variety of areas. Thanks for your info!

[johnathan1]

Wow! Thanks guys! The Dayton and Tang Band speakers look to be a great value, but the Morel are a bit pricey...If I had't already done the Bose conversion, I would have probably gone with the Dayton's, low-cost, 4ohms, and I like the cast frame with 6 holes, would make custom mounting much easier.

BTW...those Fountek ribbon tweeters are awesome! :love:

[djordan97]

just thought I'd throw my system into this mix. I have 2 boston acoustics 5 1/4 components up front in the stock location with the 1 inch tweet mounted on the woofer surround and then aimed twards the driver seat. and I have a single 10 boston g5 with passive radiator in the back both running off of pheonix gold octane r amps. about 300 to the sub and about 125 to the mids. I never have any distortion all the way through the volume range and it is so loud that it hurts my ears. no rear fill speakers are neaded here. full stereo left to right sound as well as front to back of the car. the mids and tweets are mounted using a mounting plate to fit into the stock spot and then use the door itself as the enclosure. thing to remeber here is the stock speaker mount is over an inch too shallow to allow mounting in stock box. sound is smooth through the whole music range and is extremely acoustical. I can put rap in or rock or classical or anything in between and it all sounds just as good. matter a fact the highs are so bright that we've had to pull 4 db out of them with the crossover.
anyways I can probably get pictures latter if anyone is interested. but if you want something that is going to sound excelent and don't want to use MBquart then boston is a definate alternative. oh and that is an excelent use of stuff you have lying around and some excelent thought went into building that set up.

[bigaaron]

A free set of Bose speakers will sound great for the price! :icon_wink

[SupraJDS]

Bose speakers sound great, my friend has them in his volvo. Next time I buy speakers I am going with Bose.

[Jeff Lange]

Thread moved.

[johnathan1]

Thanks Jeff! I completely forgot about the Audio section.

And I thought Aaron posted twice here...

[mattjk]

Hey guys, I heard john's stereo and it's not too bad for bose speakers... he just needs to tune the system a bit. What kind of amp are you using, John?

If you want something good on a budget, you can find and old used Fosgate Punch 45 and run it in 3 channel mode. It is a very good and warm sounding amp and will put out tons of power when loaded down. I put out just over 130db with two 8" subs in a GTI. It also has good tone controls at 20khz and 45hz to combat road noise and rolled off HF drivers.

I used to install a ton of those type of systems when I was an installer... I'm going to do the same in my supra.

If you want to hear what a really good stereo sounds like, check out what I have at home: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390466

[johnathan1]

OMG! That system is frickin' insane! I MUST come and listen to it sometime! I can't even begin to imagine what those 8ft. sound monoliths sound like!

And I don't have a standalone amplifier, just a Sony head unit, with 50Wx4...lol.

Matt: And I have been listening to the subs with the different placement, and I do think it sounds better! They will be staying there, not to mention it allows for a lot more trunk space. :)

Matt: 666 posts!! :evil5:

[roadwarrior87]

I've heard his setup too. It's pretty good and I agree with Aaron, 'can't beat the price'. I'd be satisfied :icon_bigg

[BorHor]

I have some bose speakers that i dont use.. I think I'll try putting them in when i get the chance.

[johnathan1]

What size Bose are they? And it really doesn't matter too much that they were Bose, the driver's just happened to be the perfect sizes I was looking for, and they were sitting in my bedroom, hardly getting used.

Here are the speakers I used, Bose Model 21:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bose-21-Black-USA-Bookshelf-Speakers_W0QQitemZ230054415674QQihZ013QQcategoryZ61380QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[BorHor]

I have some from a while back. hmm 4" how big are the ones in the rear?

[johnathan1]

5 1/4"

[mattjk]

John just needs more power, and an proper crossover for the subs.

[johnathan1]

BTW...the Bose speakers I used were rated at "4-8ohms". Hmmm...

Here are my subs...lol.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/johnathan1/IMG_2359.jpg

[johnathan1]

My audio setup is still working great, BTW... I crank it up everyday! :biglaugh:

[theprodigy79]

Creative setup dude, I give you props for trying something like that and setting it up to your liking.

FYI: When Bose states a "4-8Ohm" range, their speakers are actually 6Ohms each. Most current home theatre amplifiers are intended for 8Ohm loads, and the 2Ohm difference is usually not enough to cause a problem (although it can on finicky models). It will usually draw a bit more power out of those amps as well...

As for your car setup; your headunit is rated at 4Ohm loads, so running the 6Ohm load you're actually losing about a quarter of your headunits rated power... This will not hurt your system at all, so no worries there, but have you noticed that you have to turn your volume higher to reach your desired listening level?

Still one of the coolest things I've seen done for sake of creativity and motivation :icon_bigg :cool:

Peace,

-James

[johnathan1]

Thanks! :)

Yes, I understand the effects of higher impedance...but I don't mind, cuz I can still crank it up loud enough to hurt my ears...LOL... :D