my igniton system sucks.. part2

[malloynx]

So here is the deal. anything over 20psi and i'm machine gunning bad. it doesn't matter if i'm on pump, methanol, race gas, etc. i verified using all different fuels and i have the same outcome.
i borrowed my friends ignitor and coilpack. Both are low mileage unit. my idle is get a bit better with the coilpack but i'm still having the misfire.

i'm running an AUTOLITE 3923 plug. gapped at .26 all my grounds are good, and i even added a couple of more... all grounds less than .2volts which is good.

the car is throwning no codes and she is pulling 21 hg of vac at idle. i ohm checked the plug wires and there all in spec.

primary resistance in the coils is within spec.. too bad w can check the secondary.

i put the car on scope and the firing lines look good. there a bit low,,, 3kv, however this is due to the tight gap. dwell looks good, and so does coil oscilation.

did a compression test and that is good as well.. between 160-155 through all cylinders.


i'm running out of ideas..... i know i have a stock setup for igniton but this is a new thing. and i know people are running higher psi with the same setup.

the only thing i can think of is excessive carbon build up in the cylinders. i know my motor burns oil and it always has. maybe i jacked my compression a bit and with the extra boost the plug cannot fire.

you would think to, because with a waste spark system the plug fires from the ground strap to the electrode providing a much more power spark..

i even used my snap-on ST125 plug tester and i'm good to 30,000 volts ;)

so i'm at a loss here.. any tips would be great..

just nothing from jetjock :)

[Yblegal91t]

upgrade your ignition :icon_conf

[supraguy31]

upgrade your ignition :icon_conf


Make a Suggestion, Give a Solution

What would be a good Ignition system to go with on these Engines?

[malloynx]

i think you guys are missing the point. i use to be able to run 25psi+ with on issues..

after speaking with IJ, I/WE feel my PCV system is not up to the task and i'm getting too much blowby trapped in the cylinder causing lose of performance and misfires...

[IJ.]

I ran a MSD Dis4 CDI with MSD Race coils and it easily lit plugs soaked in oil after a dyno mishap left me 50 Km's from home!

[Yblegal91t]

not sure yet unbtil i test teh hks twinpower out. i know my stock unit was old and well stock so i changed it. well you did say that it helped putting in an almost new unit in so in knowing that i would be looking into an upgraded unit.

[Suprawannabe]

I see your still having the same prob, I actualy have pretty new NGK Iridium spark plugs(like 3 miles on them) We can try those on your motor just to eliminate plugs.

[dbsupra90]

i think you guys are missing the point. i use to be able to run 25psi+ with on issues..

after speaking with IJ, I/WE feel my PCV system is not up to the task and i'm getting too much blowby trapped in the cylinder causing lose of performance and misfires...

no issues on this exact setup? or has something been changed?
are you down on power?
what is your pcv system setup?

[YoNkErS87t]

i would say try to widen the gap a little in your spark plugs. i know the higher the boost the smaller the gap in the plugs, but try them at .29-.30 Also how long did you have the autolites in there for?

[bfr1992t]

Nix the autolites. NGK Copper BCPR6ES, .028-.030 gap. I run 25-35 psi on these with an otherwise STOCK ignition.

Actually, sounds like your ignition system is working. Is the fuel mixture too rich? That will cause it to misfire.

[malloynx]

tried running a .22 gap and she is still breaking up..

i'm at a lose here.. AFR'S are 11.0 and soild through the range.

maybe my map sensor is on it's way out; cause sometimes i'll throw a code 31 for no reason and the car will run like total crap and then it will go back to normal. this has happened about 5 times in the past month. i triple checked the wiring and it's good

[bfr1992t]

Where is the O2 sensor mounted? I recently had a car where the wideband O2 sensor was ~2" from the v-band clamp off the turbine. After richening up the supposed 12.8:1 mixtures it misfired like a bitch. Moved the o2 sensor about 6" away and 12.8:1 was now 10.8:1. This only became obvious after some high boost runs (30psi) that heated up the sensor enough. It was heat soaked from there out. What are you using for fuel management?

[malloynx]

WB is mid downpipe. about 2ft away from the turbo.. same spot i've always had it mounted..

running the maft-pro.

also here is the lastest news.. i put some 100 octane in the tank and i ran 1.55bar (22psi) and i did a 50-160mph pull and the car ran fine. :) this was after going from the 4.20 to the 4.65 software

[dbsupra90]

Where is the O2 sensor mounted? I recently had a car where the wideband O2 sensor was ~2" from the v-band clamp off the turbine. After richening up the supposed 12.8:1 mixtures it misfired like a bitch. Moved the o2 sensor about 6" away and 12.8:1 was now 10.8:1. This only became obvious after some high boost runs (30psi) that heated up the sensor enough. It was heat soaked from there out. What are you using for fuel management?

make sure i understand this correctly. the wb02 was 2" from the v-band and gave false lean conditions and didnt heat up enough? then you moved to 6" away and now it stays at the correct temp and reads 2 points different?

[figgie]

heat soaked o2? at the vband?

<-- looks at lsu 4.2 specs (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/pdf/sensors/lambda/LSU42.pdf)...

Temperature ranges
Exhaust gas at sensor element 850°C
Hexagon of the sensor housing < 570°C
Cable grommet (PTFE formed house)
-Sensor side < 250°C
-Cable side < 200°C
Cable and protection sleeve < 250°C
Connector < 120°C

please note the centigrades!!!

[figgie]

mallonyx

4000 rpm is the point of max torque in our cars. At that point it also means highest prone to detonation ;)

[RacerXJ220]

How's the timing? Too advanced?

[figgie]

How's the timing? Too advanced?

that is what I am thinking... knock sensor is catching detonation.

[malloynx]

i think you fella's are all missing the point here. this was never an issue. i use to be able to run 1.8bar and the car wouldn't break up.. also i need to add that it really doesn't feel like a misfire but more like a SURGE.

i run the car fat on fuel and i'm pulling plugs all the time. i have ho signs of detention.

timing is 10 BTDC.. i'm not even going crazy with the PRO settings. i'm only pulling like -10% fuel.

this is a new problem and it really started happening when i started messing with the software for the maft-pro.. i'm not blaming the unit; however i do need to realize that the unit may have something to do with my driveabilty issues

[suprahooked]

A crazy thought: Toyota ignition needs a good ground try taking the ignition off and sand the base and where you mount it. ,Just a Thought, good luck John

[chriso]

timing is 10 BTDC.. i'm not even going crazy with the PRO settings. i'm only pulling like -10% fuel.

this is a new problem and it really started happening when i started messing with the software for the maft-pro.. i'm not blaming the unit; however i do need to realize that the unit may have something to do with my driveabilty issues
My issue EXACTLY ! Ever since I installed the Pro I've noticed misfiring at idle. I don't really notice it at highway speeds but that is because I haven't been driving it lately due to the problems with my Pro settings. I removed my NGK Iridiums due to a suggestion of a very knowledgeable forum member and installed the Autolite 3923's gapped at .028", this did not change anything. My engine was running perfectly smooth prior to the Pro install. I hope this thread gets to the point since we are in the same boat Mike. Tomorrow, I am planning on unplugging my Pro and reinstalling my Lex AFM to see if that cures my issue.

[malloynx]

hey chris... let me know how that goes.. i'm trying all i can to get this figured out.

[Allan_MA70]

standalone ecu FTW :P

[bfr1992t]

make sure i understand this correctly. the wb02 was 2" from the v-band and gave false lean conditions and didnt heat up enough? then you moved to 6" away and now it stays at the correct temp and reads 2 points different?

The sensor was getting TOO hot. Maybe too much pressure or too turbulent of air. This is with an NTK sensor.

[chriso]

I unplugged all the Pro stuff and put back my Lex AFM. Still missing at idle. Next I installed NGK 6097 plugs gapped at .030". Car runs fine now. My timing was off somehow at 14BTDC. I re-timed it to 10BTDC and had to raise the idle a little bit. Now she seems to be running a lot smoother. I guess my next step is to replug all the Pro stuff back and see where I am at.

On a side note, before today. My car seemed to be running alright when cold. After it got to temperature is when it started to miss. I was reading a thread on this on SF but there was no solution there.

[malloynx]

i have the same issue... when the car is cold... great idle; as she warms-up. i get a slight misfire and a choppy idle..

where is your IAT sensor mounted?

[tookwik4u89]

Where is your a/f at for idle guys, mine does same, can feel a miss every 1-2 secs, think the idle needs fattened up a little. I regapped my plugs malloy, and runs good at 22psi.

[tookwik4u89]

And I cant get an answer anywhere to get my datalog working, I hope new t-pro software comes SOON.....argh!

[dbsupra90]

And I cant get an answer anywhere to get my datalog working, I hope new t-pro software comes SOON.....argh!

from ftst, maybe this will help?

in the aldl/logging setup screen, you need to select an ADS file (tpro4400.ads) in the datastreams directory/folder. Use the browse button and navigate to find it. Do not edit it.

Then use the select logfile button on that same screen to tell tunerpro what file to save the log to. It looks like an open file screen, just put a new filename in the box and click Open, then confirm when tunerpro asks if you want to make a new file.

Then the double arrow button at the top of the screen should connect to the ECU, the M button turns on the logging traces. Right click on a trace to select what data you want displayed on that trace. the D button is a numerical "dashboard". the Red circle button is for recording, the black square is to stop recording.

and, a video even. http://www.bailey-eng.com/instructional/recording.avi

[chriso]

i have the same issue... when the car is cold... great idle; as she warms-up. i get a slight misfire and a choppy idle..

where is your IAT sensor mounted?
3000 pipe, same as yours. Do you think that may have something to do with it.

[tookwik4u89]

Thanks Db....got it straightened out, had to make a new file. Worked before I updted to 4.63, somehow I changed something.

[3p141592654]

Reading through there seems to be two issue: a) idles rough when hot b) missing under peak load

a) Idle good when cold, rough when warm.
-> idle A/F is much leaner hot when the system is closed loop, therefore could your problems not be fuel related rather than ignition related ?

b) missing under peak load
-> plug firing voltage is highest under peak load. I would triple check ignition wiring routing for possible crossfire or arcing to ground. I know you said you got 30kV from the tester, but that was probably at idle and testing only one plug? Try testing them all. If you're on a dyno turn off the lights and look for sparks.

[malloynx]

well, i reinstalled 4.65 and i'm running 1.6 bar with no ignition break-up.. i hope there was just a software glitch..

also i got the new 4.76 software last night from bob:)

[tookwik4u89]

well, i reinstalled 4.65 and i'm running 1.6 bar with no ignition break-up.. i hope there was just a software glitch..

also i got the new 4.76 software last night from bob:)
Whats in the new version?

[chriso]

well, i reinstalled 4.65 and i'm running 1.6 bar with no ignition break-up.. i hope there was just a software glitch..

also i got the new 4.76 software last night from bob:)
I rebooted my Pro unit (holding down the right two buttons for 10 seconds during startup) and then downloaded my bin file again. I have less of a hesitation from idle and no noticable missing right now.

Version 4.76, is this MAFT Pro XP???? hmmmm care to share???

Oh and btw, tookwik, that is one hell of a killer looking car you have in your sig !!!

[tookwik4u89]

:biggrinbo Thanx chris!