Steering 'wobble'

[toml]

Hi all,

Had a quick search around for steering threads but didn't come up with much.

What parts can generally wear out in the front end of a MKIII that would cause 'wobbly' steering? The front wheels feel 'wobbly' compared to the steering wheel. Any slight bump in the road will cause the car to 'tramline'/pull very hard off to the side.

Any ideas what this is? can it be fixed? are there any aftermarket parts which will help further than just replacing stock bits'n'pieces?

Thanks :)

[IJ.]

Balljoints Tom

[toml]

Right, easy to find once you know what you're looking for... http://cygnusx1.net/supra/library/EPC/MKIII/parts/43330.html

I assume the stock toyota ball joints will be fine? Should I be replacing upper/lower arm bushes whilst i'm mucking around down there?

(I'm about to go do some reading, since I don't know how any of these suspension bits work or what they do :))

[toml]

Erk, and I'll have to remove the wheels + steering knuckle + upper control arms before I can get the lower balljoints out?

Seems like a decent amount of work involved here - I think replacing the upper control arm bushings with poly bushings sounds like a good idea, since I have to remove the upper arm anyway.

[johnathan1]

I feel your pain...my steering wobbles too, and every bump feels like the grand canyon...lol. Jeez, everything is worn out on my Supra...:nono:

[Facime]

While the ball joints will cause the steering to jump wildly about, the steering stabilizer is supposed to "dampen" a small amount of steering track. you might want to replace that at the same time.

[88supraFAST1]

now are you targa or not. if your targa is off you willl wobble like a mofo. if your not targa check your sway bars all your bushings brakes and all your suspension and so on.

[Facime]

now are you targa or not. if your targa is off you willl wobble like a mofo. if your not targa check your sway bars all your bushings brakes and all your suspension and so on.

Im targa....and I dont wobble! :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

[BorHor]

I went to toyota yesterday and asked how much a steering stabilizer was. They want like $200 for it. The guy there told me to take take it off. lol

[JustAnotherVictim]

Im targa....and I dont wobble! :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Seriously something must be wrong with your suspensions. My targa does not wobble like all you people love to claim. The chasis isn't as stiff in turns but it doesn't wobble. Yes, I have driven both hardtops and targas.

[toml]

My [STEERING] wobbles the same amount whether the targa is on or off. The body flexes a little more, as you'd imagine, but it doesn't seem to affect the steering.

Can someone tell me where this magic "steering stabilizer" is? :)

[IJ.]

Tom: The Targa post re: wobble was bad info ;)

[JustAnotherVictim]

Isn't it that shock looking thing in the front of the crossmember?

[toml]

Tom: The Targa post re: wobble was bad info ;)

Fixed, Ian... you dirty old man ;) :biglaugh:

JustAnotherVictim: I don't know, that's what I'm asking! :)

[IJ.]

LOL not your post the other one about it being the cause of the wobble!

It's just 15+ year old steering components!

[Yellow 13]

My 89 Did'nt wobble with the targa off but my 88 did. 89+'s have more reinforcement to dampen the wobble.

Toml, Have you checked to make sure your bushings are all still good. One car I bought they had completely deteriorated.

[toml]

LOL not your post the other one about it being the cause of the wobble!

It's just 15+ year old steering components!

Oh! Right :) Yeah, I knew it was just old components... but i'm trying to work out which of those need to be replaced. So far I think balljoints are the primary suspect, followed by bushes and this stabilizer thingy. :)

Once you know which parts you should be looking at and what they're called, it's much easier to diagnose their condition ;)

[IJ.]

Tom: Pretty well everything will be shagged other than the top balljoints.

[Yellow 13]

Tom: Pretty well everything will be shagged other than the top balljoints.

Shagged, stuffed, pick one IJ. Your Aussie lingos throwin me off.

[JustAnotherVictim]

Crikey!!!

[ForcedTorque]

My 89 Did'nt wobble with the targa off but my 88 did. 89+'s have more reinforcement to dampen the wobble.

Ditto......My 87 shakes like Shakira Hips with the top off at 55mph. My 90 is not anything like it. I get a little vibration out of it on the interstate, but very tolerable.

[SPD TRP]

Lower control arm bushings will cause a steering wheel shimmy too.

Wayne

[toml]

OK, thanks guys - I'll check both the lower bushings and the lower balljoints.


Shagged, stuffed, pick one IJ. Your Aussie lingos throwin me off.
I understood him! Thanks maaaaate ;)

[toml]

But to replace lower control arm bushings I need to replace the whole lower control arm?

[IJ.]

But to replace lower control arm bushings I need to replace the whole lower control arm?
No ;)

[toml]

I jacked my car up and tried to 'wobble' the wheels myself. I couldn't get much play either front/back or up/down.

Is there a better way I can test that the balljoints / bushings do indeed need replacing? (short of pulling them out and looking at them, I suppose)

[IJ.]

Try from side to side as well Tom!

Jack from under the control arm as close to the lower balljoint as you can get.

[toml]

Yes I tried side-to-side, up-and-down, etc... maybe a mm of movement either way.

I tried to jack the lower control arm, but all it did was raise the car, didn't shift any of the suspension components around seperately!

[IJ.]

If you jack under the car it drops the suspension and it might be tight at that point but wobbly at normal ride height.

[toml]

Ahhh OK, so I need to jack up the car and then jack up the suspension on one wheel so its at normal ride height?

[IJ.]

Yep :)

[toml]

Hmm... I jacked the car up so the wheels were off the ground, then jacked the RHS lower control arm up a bit further (it wouldn't go all the way up to 'ride height').


I couldn't get the wheel to 'wobble' in any direction.

I climbed under and had a closer look at the ball joints and bushings. Not knowing what I'm actually looking for didn't help, but the lower bushings looked quite worn out / disintegrated...

Also noticed a _lot_ of wear on the inner edge of the front tyres.


Any other suggestions? otherwise I'll just take it into a suspension shop and get them to have a look at it (they'll probably try and sell me thousands of $$ of stuff :()..

[Allan_MA70]

lower inner front control arm bushes / bal joints i'd say

[johnathan1]

can the control arm bushes be replaced easily? Or do they have to be pressed in/out? How about the ball joints?

[toml]

can the control arm bushes be replaced easily? Or do they have to be pressed in/out? How about the ball joints?

What he said... ?

[Allan_MA70]

the bush's are a bitch as you typicaly have to bbq the old rubbers out but the bal joints are easy

[toml]

Will it be easier for me to take the arms out and take them + the new bushes into a suspension shop and say "replace these for me" ?

[toml]

... ordered two lower ball joints today from Toyota...

[Allan_MA70]

i'd do the bushs myself just for peace of mind... last time i let someone work on the supra was todo the bushs and i checked over it when i got it back to find split pins missing from my baljoints!

its your life, for me i learnt my lesson even if its a prick of a job i dont want todo myself do it because no one loves your supra besides you!

[toml]

Apparently the lower bushes need a decent workshop of tools... I'm thinking about taking the lower control arm out and getting them to put the new bushes in whilst i'm watching :)

The upper bushes and lower balljoints I'll do myself...

[Allan_MA70]

nah just burn the rubber out then file a thin spot in the outer case of the old bushing and colapse it... just takes time and you stink like burnt rubber for a week

[toml]

What on earth am I going to burn the old rubber out with? I doubt a box of matches is going to help much... :)

[johnathan1]

What on earth am I going to burn the old rubber out with? I doubt a box of matches is going to help much... :)

Blow torch. :)

I found out what was causing my wobble...:( I took it to the tire shop, and my tread had seperate pretty bad, and caused a bump on the tire.

[toml]

Blow torch. :)

I found out what was causing my wobble...:( I took it to the tire shop, and my tread had seperate pretty bad, and caused a bump on the tire.

Don't have a blow torch / oxy welder / anything like that... I'll take it to a suspension shop.

Glad you got yours fixed. :)

[johnathan1]

Damn, I feel like such an idiot...lol.

[toml]

At least yours is working... I don't even know what's wrong with mine!

I'd rather feel like an idiot and have my car drive nice than feel superior and have to wobble around the road...

[johnathan1]

I agree completely...but what really makes me feel like an idiot, is that the whole time I wrote it off as ball joints, because from what I could see, the tires looked fine... Well one wasn't, the tread was seperated in four places, and the guy saw it when he put it up on the lift. I also just got done with a 300 mile-long trip where I was doing 60MPH around turns up in the twisties around Temecula, CA...I also hit speeds of 100+ MPH on the freeway coming home...all with a tire that could have blown at any moment...I will definitely make tires a priority from now on...

[fiyota]

Just pick up a propane torch.. it's just a bottle with a neck on it, get a thing that makes sparks and walla... shouldn't be too pricey either.

[bigaaron]

Look under the car at the steering while someone turns the wheel back and forth, it should be easy to see if there is any play in the tie rods or if the rack itself is loose. I've seen the rack bolts come loose and let the rack move around, or the bushings around the rack can wear out. To check the balljoints, put the car on stands and lift up on the tire while you watch the lower balljoint. Then for the upper balljoints just lift on the end of the upper arm and see if there is any play.

[Wills7MGTE]

I have the same problem, still have it after repalcing left front ball joint, Now I am replacing the right front one as well as bushing and getting a suspension kit, since I found all my shock are jacked, so new springs, struts, sway bars, bushing and a new ball joint, if this doesn't solve it I am blowing it up.

I have a whole new rack and PS pumpo and hoses since my rack ate the dust 2 years ago.

[87Superdupra]

If anybody is still on this thread I have 2 lower ball joints and I need some advice replacing them. I 'm reading TSRM and it looks like I need a 'Ball Joint Separater"? What tools do I need to do this? Also I have 2 tie rod ends coming in a couple days. Should I wait till I have those and replace all?

[toml]

please answer him ^^^ :D

[IJ.]

There's a few ways to do this, 1) use a fork tool 2) Use a screw type tool 3) hit the side of the knuckle in line with the joint taper with a hammer.

[supra90turbo]

I just give the knuckle a good smack and they usually come apart.
Pickle Fork works good too. Get one at any autoparts store. Ask for ball joint separator or pickle fork. they'll know.

[IJ.]

:icon_razz

[Allan_MA70]

You get new nuts with the new bal joints so just undo the nut till its just above the top threed, get a big fuck off hammer and one good hit did the trick!

[IJ.]

Allan: Works ok if you're NOT reusing the BJ...... ;)
(I hit the side to break the taper and they pop right out)

[supra90turbo]

Damn you Ian... lol
At least we're both right ;)

I've used the leveled-off nut trick to ill effects... too high, bunged the threads up. too low, collapsed the hole a bit...

I'll stick with the knucklesmack method :P

[toml]

If I have the front of the car jacked up, wheels off the ground, how hard should it be for me to turn the wheels by hand? Someone's told me that it should be difficult, but I seem to be able to turn mine easily.

[Allan_MA70]

Allan: Works ok if you're NOT reusing the BJ...... ;)
(I hit the side to break the taper and they pop right out)

never removed one I have wanted to re-use! cheap insurance!

[IJ.]

When I fit the front Hall sensors I'm NOT buying new Ball Joints :icon_razz

[Allan_MA70]

why not your fitting new everything else! :)

[IJ.]

They were new not long ago! (in KM's) ;)

[Allan_MA70]

hahhahahahahaha

supras do have the longest service intervals 12 months or 5000km (thats what the sticker said!!!)

[toml]

OK I'm confused.

The TSRM says to remove the balljoints I have to:
1. Remove steering knuckle
2. Remove upper control arm
3. Remove ball joint

It doesn't give instructions on how to remove the steering knuckle, but it does give instructions on removing the upper control arm, and the first part of that is to disconnect the control arm from the steering knuckle. How can I do that if I just removed the steering knuckle in step 1?!?

Can someone tell me what I have to remove to get these damn balljoints out? My guess would be: wheels, unbolt the steering knuckle from the upper control arm, unbolt the lower balljoint from the lower control arm, smack the thing with my new 'ball joint separator' and it should come out?

Do I have to remove the whole upper control arm from the body to get the balljoints out?

[toml]

Doh, just found more in the TSRM - it says I need to remove the calipers, rotors, tie rod ends and whole steering knuckle. Is that all really neccessary to get the balljoints out?

[IJ.]

Bottom BJ's nope they come out pretty easily Tom

[toml]

Didn't really answer my question though ;)

So can I just unbolt them and pull them out without removing any other parts?

[IJ.]

Doh, just found more in the TSRM - it says I need to remove the calipers, rotors, tie rod ends and whole steering knuckle. Is that all really neccessary to get the balljoints out?


Bottom BJ's nope they come out pretty easily Tom ;)

[toml]

Can someone tell me what I have to remove to get these damn balljoints out? My guess would be: wheels, unbolt the steering knuckle from the upper control arm, unbolt the lower balljoint from the lower control arm, smack the thing with my new 'ball joint separator' and it should come out?

Do I have to remove the whole upper control arm from the body to get the balljoints out?

:D

[IJ.]

If you're replacing the Uppers you have to buy new arms!

Very rare for our cars to kill the uppers as there's minimal load on them compared to lowers Tom!

[toml]

I have new lowers sitting here waiting to go in, I wasn't planning on replacing the uppers. (how do you know if they need replacing? I can get a very slight movement out of them when I try to move them...)

I'm giving up for now. I don't even have the right size socket/tool to get my wheels off, let alone able to get any sort of wrench onto the nut on top of the balljoint. I might just take it to a suspension shop and pay a professional to do it.

[Allan_MA70]

I have new lowers sitting here waiting to go in, I wasn't planning on replacing the uppers. (how do you know if they need replacing? I can get a very slight movement out of them when I try to move them...)

I'm giving up for now. I don't even have the right size socket/tool to get my wheels off, let alone able to get any sort of wrench onto the nut on top of the balljoint. I might just take it to a suspension shop and pay a professional to do it.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=337113&postcount=39

[toml]

I agree in theory, Allan.. but I'm not loving the Supra at the moment. Harsh words, I know, but every time I drive it I find myself getting angrier and angrier at it. :(

I'll pick up a larger (20mm?) socket+wrench tomorrow and see if I can get the wheels and balljoints off tomorrow. If I don't have any success tomorrow it's going to a pro.

[Aaron J Williams]

Ok, here's how it's done. Remove the wheels, remove the cotter pin and nut holding the ball joint to the spindle.Whack the side of the spindle or use a picklefork to break the ball joint loose from the spindle. Remove the lower strut bolt and move the strut out of the way allowing you access to the bolt under the strut. Remove 3 bolts holding ball joint into the lower a-arm. Lift the spindle upwards approx' 8" then slide the ball joint out of the a-arm. Reverse procedure to install. Always torque fasteners to the torque reccommended by TSRM . Always use jackstands . Never drink alcohol until the job is done unless you smash your finger and need some pain relief. Good luck and may the force be with you.

[toml]

I can't break the taper on the lower balljoints :(

Got the wheels off, took the nuts off the top of the balljoint, but I can't get it out of the steering knuckle.

I picked up a picklefork but i can't seem to get it in there properly. I've been smacking the end of the picklefork with a hammer but it doesn't seem to do anything. :(

[toml]

OK, I went down the shop and bought a different picklefork, which worked well..

But now I need to disconnect the strut from the lower control arm before I can get the last of the balljoint bolts out... what a stupid design! Gosh I hope I can get that strut back in there!

[toml]

Car drives MUCH better with new lower balljoints, but it's still not perfect. I have some new upper+lower poly bushings ordered and ready to pick up, so I'll try and install them this weekend and see how well this car can handle!

ps. When I removed the old balljoints I used the picklefork and it tore the side of the balljoint rubber. Was this just the way I was doing it, or the 17yr old balljoint, or is this prone to happen? I need to know how to get my new balljoints out of the steering knuckle again without breaking them. :) I know... I should've done the balljoints + bushings at the same time.... :(

[IJ.]

Hitting the side of the knuckle has always worked for me without destroying parts Tom