Intake Manifold [Archive]

Mark3Supraholic

04-02-2005, 03:39 AM

I noticed on some 7M cars I've seen that they use some sort of forward facing postitioned throttle body intake manifold. Well I got to thinking maybe I'd want to do that eventually, so I did a little reading and found someone at 7Mpower.com mated the top half of a JZ manifold to a 7M lower half. Of the four or five I've seen, most have relocated alot of stuff around the bay. My biggest question in relocation is where the hell does the alternator go? A/C delete and replace w/alternator? custom made bracket? Power steering delete? I'm at a total loss as to how they went about that. Anyone know?

IJ.

04-02-2005, 03:52 AM

I modded mine and all that had to move was the battery to the hatch (I wanted to anyway)
My Manifold (http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=716&postcount=29)

Ron jtma71 makes a manifold that leaves just about everything untouched but the alternator (he provides a drop down bracket I believe)

And there was another guy on the old forum that was doing much the same at very reasonable rates.

Dirgle

04-02-2005, 03:57 AM

From what I've seen people used to remove the A/C and drop the alternator down. Fortunately, like IJ said, the more recent designs just shift the alternator down a little and leave the A/C alone. Which is the way I would prefer to go.

evilone

04-02-2005, 12:06 PM

if you go to turboboss.com, he makes a front facing manifold and new throttle body.you dont have to move the alternator and it still clears the hood.this is the setup i am puytting in my drag supra. i can tell you it works great from driving his car and it definatly out flows the stock manifold.

oneandgone

04-02-2005, 12:24 PM

...I know Ron R. has a great rep and makes a great product, but I haven't heard much good from people about turboboss....

IHI-RHC7

04-02-2005, 06:48 PM

Ron does make adsolutely beautiful products, and he offers two kinds.
I would have to recomend him over Turboboss.
Although the long runner version clears the alternater with only a drop down bracket, I'd recomend going with a short runner, large plenum design and do your accessories mkiv style.
The alt moves to the power steering pump location, and the power steering pump sits stationary right on top of the AC compressor. all that is needed is some custom high pressure lines for the power steering components and that only cost me $30 at the local fitting supply store. That and brackets.

IJ.

04-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Can you get a pic of the pump relocation please Jake?

IHI-RHC7

04-02-2005, 06:53 PM

I'll work on it, It's still in prototype state, as the block is at the machinest.
It'll be a while, but I'll post pics once it's together.
I'm also contemplating putting a three stage dry sump pump in the cavity where the stock pump drive shaft goes.

IJ.

04-02-2005, 07:17 PM

Looking forward to the pics Jake!

bluemax

04-03-2005, 12:19 AM

MARK...
I'd be careful about modifing the upper intake manifold unless you are not planning to smog it, or have an alternative smog station to go to. You'll have problems at a lot of smog stations if it doesn't look 100% stock.

Idealsupra

04-03-2005, 12:42 AM

you guys are making this wayyyy to complicated...

in all reality the simple solutions like what ron has made with the drop down of the alternator and the short runners is the perfect setup...

of course if you dont care about AC you could do that ...but otherwise the other soultions are creating a lot of extra work for the same result...IMO

JerzeySlowpra

04-03-2005, 01:38 AM

i use to have pics of rons product in my inbox that i could've posted on the old SM but some dick had to mess everything up

Mark3Supraholic

04-03-2005, 04:25 AM

Thanks for all the input. I read the replies and looked at the engine and a dropdown alternator bracket seems like a very simple, very feasible solution. A/C doesn't matter to me as my Compressor clutch died very shortly after I bought the car some 2 1/2 years ago (makes a bad whining sound when A/C is turned on). And I don't think smog will be too big of an issue. I know a couple of alternatives to a standard smog/repair station.

DrakeMK3

04-03-2005, 10:20 AM

I want the old FFI thread back!

::runs off crying::

DEFIANT 7M

04-03-2005, 01:02 PM

Here is a formula if anyone wants to figure runner length. 97000 / peak rpm (goal HP @? rpm). IE: 300hp @ 5900 rpm--- 97000/5900= a runner length of 16.4 inches. Do we have any flow numbers on these diferent intake setups? What looks good may not be good at all..

screaminglemon

04-03-2005, 05:17 PM

um.. 16.4 inches!?!? maybe for an N/A. but i thought shorter runners were desirable for forced induction.

prsrcokr

04-03-2005, 06:09 PM

Dirgle

04-03-2005, 06:19 PM

You can make big numbers with that set up. That’s not the primary problem that the forward facing intake attempts to solve. Making the intake, front facing makes the intake track shorter, and simpler thus improving throttle response. There isn't a lot of piping the turbo has to pressurize. On additional note the shorter piping can help the power a little by allowing less area for the intake air to pickup ambient engine bay heat. But you can still make big numbers. So if your just a dyno queen then you don't really need it. But on the street or on the track it's nice to have.

Stretch

04-03-2005, 08:19 PM

So, I had a saved pm form a guy who makes them on this site. They go for $500 if I remember correctly. And they came with the drop-down bracket for the alt. You know who you are!!!Can you post the pics of the 3 styles again cause I may want one very soon.
eric

oneandgone

04-03-2005, 08:22 PM

Stretch, I think you're speaking of Ron R. aka jt2ma71. I haven't seen him post here yet, but I bet he's around. I have one of his manis and it's a work of art!

DEFIANT 7M

04-03-2005, 09:18 PM

um.. 16.4 inches!?!? maybe for an N/A. but i thought shorter runners were desirable for forced induction.

It was just an examlpe!!!

DEFIANT 7M

04-03-2005, 09:23 PM

Did anyone notice the mkIV spread in the latest issue if modified? It had a manifold setup very similiar to the stock 7m turbo. Looks like maybe they modified a N/A manifold but the guy was making some big numbers with the setup. I'm curious why he didn't use a front facing version from the turbo model.
Brian W-88T
Did it look like this..the lower is from a 7M.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1267173
Also that manifold has ACIS http://www.geocities.com/mwsupra2003/acis.html link from Jong's thread on SF.

jt2ma71

04-04-2005, 12:08 AM

Hi guys, thanks for the compliments about the manifolds I make :) I appreciate it. I have made several other ones after these old pictures were taken. I now spend more time and grind the welds on the main plenum (pipe) and DA sand the whole thing prepping it for polishing. Any tb from stock, Q45, to a 100mm can be used. With or without cold start injector and Idle speed motor. I'll add more pictures of the last ones I made once I get them hosted(EDIT: pictures added). Both styles have been flowtested. The stock one flows a little bit more on the ends, 1 and 6, compared to 2,3,4 and 5. The ones I make flows almost evenly (each runner), like less than a couple cfms difference between the lowest and highest flowing runner. The stock one flows around 235 cfm average, my long runner style flows @ 285 cfm and the short runner @ over 300 cfm. I know the tests were also done the right way. Thanks!!
http://members.aol.com/senquest/longrunner.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jt2ma6/m1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/senquest/j1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/senquest/j2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/senquest/j4.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/3.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/4.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/5.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ronram7728/8.jpg

upgradedsupra

04-04-2005, 12:48 AM

Mark3Supraholic

04-04-2005, 01:53 AM

Wow Ron that looks very impressive.

jt2ma71

04-04-2005, 08:48 AM

Good guy in posting pics Ron ... > I simply suggest you not post any really DETAILED pics as you may get the manifold copied. You know me bud, as I am trying to look out for you. ;)
The manifold pics you had before should be posted. I may have a few of those instead.

Also > Take that TB off that manifold as it is mine :eek:

Check out my sig ;)

Duane
It's ok Duane, thanks for looking out. I think the pictures were taken before the I sold the tb ;)
What's up with your sig? :D
Anyways, the pictures are there for people deciding to make one on their own or to see what kind of work goes into these things and decide to have somebody else make it for them :) Ron

IJ.

04-04-2005, 08:52 AM

Ron: If shipping and import duty weren't such a factor there's no way in hell I would have made my own!

For anyone contemplating making one think twice then take a deep breath think again and buy one of Rons!

suprra_girl

04-04-2005, 09:53 AM

^ yea i think i agree LOL
i attempted to reverse the butterfly on a 2j tb i had
i totally gave up LOL

Ron... what would it cost for one of these... i'm gonna be finishing my build in a couple of weeks and would like to know what the price range is

Thanks :D

DrakeMK3

04-04-2005, 10:41 AM

I was contemplating making my own, but it all depends on price. Get back to us with a confirmed price, Ronnie boy. :)

flubyux2

04-04-2005, 01:34 PM

you know, its very possible to reconfig the PS and alternator JZ-style. that might give some extra room.

i was planning on lowering the alternator right on top of the AC and getting a longer 4-rib serp belt and reconfiguring the AC tensioner pulley so that it pushes downward rahter than pull up. then i can run the AC and alt off the same belt. cool huh?

Idealsupra

04-04-2005, 01:39 PM

Good guy in posting pics Ron ... > I simply suggest you not post any really DETAILED pics as you may get the manifold copied. You know me bud, as I am trying to look out for you. ;)
The manifold pics you had before should be posted. I may have a few of those instead.

Also > Take that TB off that manifold as it is mine :eek:

Check out my sig ;)

Duane

duane whats up with the sig? to me its the other way around...ill swear by my life on the cometic...then again who knows what you are talking about ;)

screaminglemon

04-04-2005, 05:27 PM

im interested in that short runner, vielside type looking one. what needs to be relocated to run that? i dont mind moving the battery or alternator but i must keep AC.

jt2ma71

04-04-2005, 07:07 PM

The PS(7M) is not affected by any of these manifolds, just the alternator, battery, and ac compressor depending on which manifold. I want to make sure it's OK to post prices here or I'd rather have you guys send me a PM. :) Thanks! Ron

jt2ma71

04-04-2005, 07:12 PM

im interested in that short runner, vielside type looking one. what needs to be relocated to run that? i dont mind moving the battery or alternator but i must keep AC.

The style you want moves the alternator into the ac compressor spot (for now, because of the bracket design) I haven't seriously looked into making another alternator bracket that will keep the AC comp. in place, but I will. The battery and obviously the alternator do have to be moved. Ron

evildoer

04-04-2005, 07:15 PM

hey ron i sent you a email a week or so ago very nice manifolds as soon as i have enough ill be ordering one from very sweet

oneandgone

04-04-2005, 07:35 PM

I want to make sure it's OK to post prices here or I'd rather have you guys send me a PM. :) Thanks! Ron

I would recommend handling pricing via pm. I can vouch that the pricing is very nice as I have one of Ron's manifolds!

prsrcokr

04-05-2005, 07:41 AM

Did it look like this..the lower is from a 7M.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1267173
Also that manifold has ACIS http://www.geocities.com/mwsupra2003/acis.html link from Jong's thread on SF.

Yep, had the N/A style split pipe before the TB and looked a lot like a 7m manifold. I was curious what they're reasoning was when it seems that a FFI would have been much easier to do.
Brian W

coinball

04-05-2005, 07:55 AM

JDMfantasy and martydaman1 make FFI's...i have one made by them. great price, great craftsmanship and excellent customer service.

the first one used a JDM 7M TB, which i sent back to have a new flange put on and now i'm using a 75mm 1UZ TB (4.0 V8)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/coinball/DSC00331.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/coinball/DSC00082.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/coinball/DSC00196.jpg

these are old pics, none with the new TB on

flubyux2

04-06-2005, 12:08 AM

i know you dont HAVE To move the PS. but i was just thinking... what if we DID move the PS so that it mimics the 1JZ setup. and then putting the alt down in the stock PS position.

anyone who has done a 1JZ swap can easily do this... hell, i may try to do this. its alot more costly and such, since you need to extend the wires for the alt, relocate the ps resivoir and make a custom PS line. in fact, i could probalby use a 2JZ PS pump. that would make things alot simpler too.

Tun_x

04-06-2005, 12:36 AM

I build them also...

DEFIANT 7M

04-06-2005, 12:37 AM

Ron your manifolds are as striking as fine art!!! :eek:

screaminglemon

04-06-2005, 02:44 AM

so Ron, if i buy a mani from you, will you need me to send you a core beforehand?

jt2ma71

04-06-2005, 08:58 AM

jt2ma71

04-06-2005, 09:01 AM

so Ron, if i buy a mani from you, will you need me to send you a core beforehand?

Preferrably but not necessarily beforehand. I have a couple that kinda keep the production going. I'd like to get one back after shipping a finished one at least. Thanks.

--Ron

Johnny Dangerously

04-06-2005, 09:07 AM

jt2ma71

04-06-2005, 09:17 AM

obviously, my Filipino brotha...you make intake mani's that do not require you to remove your AC Compressor and AC parts. which is good. However, would that mean i would have to relocate my battery as a consequence?
Ha ha, salamat! FOR NOW, unfortunately for some, yes. Besides, it gives you a straighter and shorter air path from the IC to the TB, provided that you have a side to side inlet/outlet IC. Ron

Johnny Dangerously

04-06-2005, 09:24 AM

Ha ha, salamat! FOR NOW, unfortunately for some, yes. Besides, it gives you a straighter and shorter air path from the IC to the TB, provided that you have a side to side inlet/outlet IC. Ron

good enough for me...walang nalaman....bleh, i suck at tagalog spelling.
however, thanks for the info :)

jast14

04-06-2005, 09:46 AM

I just got this one off ebay :D

Stretch

04-06-2005, 11:05 AM

Hey, do tell us how your ebay intake comes out. I thought he said in the listing that you don't get it all done, that you need to weld the throttle body plate on, and do some more welding here and there.
jt2ma71- How much is your intake selling for? And it does come with the alt drop bracket? I want to purchase one in the near future so I want the info if you don't mind.
eric

flubyux2

04-06-2005, 01:00 PM

i figured if we put the PS right above the ac, we could switch to a 4 rib belt and not hurt anything. we can run the ps and ac together, and reconfigure the AC tensioner to PUSH rather than pull, we can get more belt contact on the PS pump pulley and eliminate potential slippage. however, AC pulley belt contact will be reduced slightly. im not sure how much resistance the AC pully applies to the belt. but in reality, the reduction in belt contact area wont be any less than on the JZ motors.

its just a wild idea. but i think im going to try it on my next 7M's and see if itll work out. i think the PS pump would take up less space than an alternator... so it may give me more room under the TB and whatnot.

btw, you DONT technically have to run your IC pipe where your battery sits. you can run it right down where the AC fans run, like a JZ setup, then go out to the side and pull a 180* to enter the fmic... like just about every other aftermarket JZ cold pipe out there

evildoer

04-06-2005, 03:49 PM

so what would be needed to make one of these i mean what on the upper where the air gets charged, what holes would be needed drilled besides where the tb bolts up and where the upper gets welded to the lower? im not worried about emissions here where i live. And also can some 1 just make me a plemmum is that how you say it? I have a friend that is a fabricator and he could just weld the upper to the lower for me
for free then i could do the polishing im sure he could make the whole thing for me but i dont have the specs and rather use something tried and true if some 1 is intrested in making just the top plemmum with a bracket for a q45 tb pm me ill get the rest sorted
maybe i can save a dollar because my money is funny thanks

flubyux2

04-06-2005, 03:57 PM

well, you can cut the plenum off the stock upper intake so youre left with only intake runners. and just weld a plenum onto the runners and mount the TB on the front. its a very simple concept.

if you want just the pieces to do it, they are on ebay for like 200 bucks. it just needs to be welded together.