Help! I'm being a douche about my Supra!

[Jervis Mcstabby]

:1zhelp: I can't get my 7m to turn over after cranking. I've checked in diagnostic mode, and I'm getting no codes. I've recharged and refilled the battery, switched the AFM, checked the spark plugs/wires changed the battery terminals, reset the timing, and tested both the battery and the alternator( both tested good, even though the bearing is going out on the alt).:cry: The only ideas I have left are to replace the distributor rotor (the cap is new) or replace the alternator wiring harness section. Any solutions?:1zhelp:

[MDCmotorsports]

So it cranks but no fire?

[Superjustin13]

If its just Cranking and not Firing. Check your drivers side kick panel.

For Ign Fuse.if its blow your car will Crank but not fire.

[GotToyota?]

Also might be your EFI fuse.

-Matt

[cjsupra90]

Have you atleast determined whether it is spark or fuel or both that you are not getting? if not, thats a good place to start.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

It's a little random, but it cranks, fires and then dies. Sorry I forgot to mention that. I kinda think it's the alternator wire connection problem, I unwrapped it, and there was a lot of calcium/lime on the wires. I know the spark plugs work fine, right now it seems that it's a problem with the engine maintaining an idle. It had died a couple nights ago, and when we "fixed" it, I had to keep the engine at 1100RPM until it warm up fully. Before that, it kept dropping to 600rpm and dying. I really hope it's wiring, but just in case, I'll check the injectors.

[MDCmotorsports]

If it cranks, fires and then dies - check the AFM if you're turbo.

[s383mmber1]

If it cranks, fires and then dies - check the AFM if you're turbo.

7mge section FTW!

[Jervis Mcstabby]

I'm going to check the fuse panel but I didn't see any blown when I looked the last time. The way it dies is like the way the it does when the AFM is dead or d/c but I still get no codes.
The EFI fuse was still good when we checked it the first time but as I said I'm going to go look again. I was thinking the ISC valve may be attributing to the problem but I'm not sure if it's on long enough to even start clicking.
The car starts strong but dies within a few seconds even with the gas pedal pressed in. :1zhelp:

Anymore ideas?

[RIPDOTCOM]

1: Check compression
2: Check for Vacuum leaks
3: Check your timing
4: Check your fuel pressure
5: Check your timing again.
6: Check for spark
7: change your rotor button, cap, plugs and wires.

The biggest problem diagnosing a car is denial.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

1: Check compression
2: Check for Vacuum leaks
3: Check your timing
4: Check your fuel pressure
5: Check your timing again.
6: Check for spark
7: change your rotor button, cap, plugs and wires.

The biggest problem diagnosing a car is denial.

1. All the cyclinders are at 198-201.
2. All the vacuum tubes are fine.
3. You can't check the timing if the engine isn't running.:3d_frown:
4. I didn't have time today to check it.
5. Again, that's impossible.
6. All 1mo old NGK copper cores, and gapped correctly.
7. The cap and plugs are pretty much brand new (one month old), but I'm gonna change the rotor tomorrow, and unless all the wires failed simultaneously, the engine would splutter a bit at a low rpm, and then die.


I'd also like to meet who's in denial over my car needin fixing.

[bigaaron]

All the cyclinders are at 198-201

That would be a new record :biglaugh:

To check for spark unplug a wire and plug it onto another spark plug. Touch the threaded part to ground and crank it.

Your number 5 answer is the denial part he was speaking about.

[johnathan1]

Really? Your Supra's being a douche?? How is that physically possible? lol j/k

[Jervis Mcstabby]

Really? Your Supra's being a douche?? How is that physically possible? lol j/k
:wiggle: Job placement... it's complicated!:runaway:

My crappy ohm meter says the isc has no resistance, not even the spec min of 10ohms. I gotta wait until my brother wakes up to use the good one. Also bits of the distributor rotor look worn, so I'll replace that tomorrow and see how it goes.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

Your number 5 answer is the denial part he was speaking about. So how then would it be able to be checked if the engine doesn't make it past one revolution?:stickpoke

[Jervis Mcstabby]

Lol, those older Supras with vacuum tubes are always a bitch to work on. Lucky for me I have the transistorized model. And why is it always the car's fault?

There aren't many things that'll keep the engine from starting and most of them can be rapidly eliminated. It seems you're trying to repair something without a clear understanding of how it works, from what I've seen a problem common among Supra owners. Floundering always leads to frustraton. No offense intended but I suggest you spend some time learning the basics if you're going to keep this car. It's clear from your posts you need some study.

At least shoot some starting ether in there and see if it runs. Try and divide the problem into either fuel or spark and go from there. This isn't rocket science you know. And timing can be checked several ways without running the engine. I'd explain how but something tells me I'd end up being the one frustrated... Well I haven't had the time to buy any parts since friday (the day it died) and my spark would have to be really weak to need ether in 100 degree weather.
:umno: That's an easy statment to make, seeing as the reason for it not maintaining an idle can have multiple causes, and to name a few:
The afm or its wiring harness could be faulty, thus not allowing the needed amount of air through the intake for combustion.
The distributor cap or its rotor could be misaligned and/or warped, causing the plugs to fire inconsistently.
The alternator or its wiring harness could be bad, causing the engine to lose its electrical supply once the battery is depleted.

I really don't need to go on with all the other possible causes. The fact of the matter is that while yes, it is not rocket science, the problem can be one of multiples, so it is not retard-easy, either. Also, you'd better be talking about some solution I've not gone over in my actual post, because if you're talking about my post number, it's you who needs some study, mainly the fact that one's knowledge of a subject can precede their knowing of a forum's existence.

:rant2:If I was someone with no idea of how to solve the problem, as you were so close to presenting me as, I wouldn't be on here, because I wouldn't know what to ask about. I would take it to the toyota dealer's mechanics and let myself be assraped:gaybar: with diagnosis and labor fees.

I also find it cute that after all your condescension, the best "physical" solution you have for me is "use starting ether". Either you can berate me for not knowing the full answer or you can help me, but don't do both, because your fix will get lost in the insult. And until someone can actually tell me how to check timing without the engine running, it comes off as:bsflag::eek3dance .

[JustAnotherVictim]

So how then would it be able to be checked if the engine doesn't make it past one revolution?:stickpoke

I'm curious as to how this works also jetjock, google fails me. I quite enjoy technical explanations. :icon_bigg Also, if it was a compression problem wouldn't at the very least two cylinders or probably more have to have bad compression considering how many people can drive around with a bhg?
jetjock I know you don't always mean to come across like an ass but let's not jump to conclusions about people yea? :icon_razz

I would think it was a sparking problem since it sounds like the car turns and fires up, if the alternator and battery are good. If that doesn't work I would try to check the fuel pressure.
Also don't jump all over jetjock he's not a bad guy just a pompous ass :biglaugh: he's actually very helpful most of the time.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

I could tell you in great detail exactly what happens when you turn the key but that may not be useful if you have neither the technical background nor instrumentation to utilize the information. Based on your previous posts you have neither. If I'm incorrect I apologize.

Few if any of the things you pointed out will prevent the engine from starting or running after a start which, if I read the original post correctly, is your problem. The bottom line is the engine only needs spark (at the right itme), fuel, and air to start. It may not run well but it will run. At any rate each of those items can easily be verified and the path to a resolution taken from there.
Or you can just throw parts at it. Anyway, good luck. Fwiw checking timing with the engine off (I assume you meant ignition timing, you didn't specify), at least the timing needed for it to start and run, IS retard easy. And in exchange for far less time than you've already messed with it (or about $30 and zero time) you can simulate every signal the ECU needs for injection and ignition. There is no need to even try and start the engine when troubleshooting a no start condition that way.

It all comes down to a case of you not knowing what you don't know. I'm assuming you at least have a service manual. Haha, You called me sport, lol.:wiggle: I'm looking through the online TSRM right now, my Haynes manual isn't too informative now that I've weeded out it's suggested solutions. It could be just something simple, like I've ran out of gas. My FSU busted so I can never completely tell. I'm gonna put some gas and maybe some ether, too:naughty:, and see where that takes me. Well I gotta get to work, If you could even hint at something that you wouldn't expect me to think of, I'd apreciate it, jetjock.:1zhelp: :runaway::1zhelp:

[Jervis Mcstabby]

Ok, I have time to check on my car today, and so far, I've found that according to the manual, e2-Vs should be between 20-100 ohms, and mine is reading around 318ohms. I tested both e2 terminals with Vs and got the same reading on each. e2-Vc is still within the range of 100-300ohms, it's at 282. I really do hope this is the problem.

[JustAnotherVictim]

What exactly are you checking? TPS, AFM??

[SupraDerk]

On the wiring diagram the ECU only shows one "E2"...but the AFM and TPS both share a node that goes into this port. So he probably was checking the impedance at the TPS and AFM.

---------------------
Edit: A little FYI

E2 = Sensor Ground
VC = AFM and TPS
VS = AFM

[JustAnotherVictim]

Yea I assumed TPS because that's where I remember seeing that but I figured I'd ask.

[Hobbes992]

I changed my spark plugs and valve cover gasket today and I was having the same rough idling and dying symptoms, turned out to be a vaccuum leak... a VERY small one at that. So put your head to the engine and listen to it for the brief moments it starts before it dies and listen for the whiiiisssssssssss. :) But then again if it's an electrical component failure then I guess you'll just have to replace the parts.

The original owner of my car ghetto rigged a lot of the vaccum lines and when I was taking off my y-pipe, I must have undid his ghetto rigging.

[Hobbes992]

Oh yeah, mine didn't start once because of gas. That was just reckless on my part because even though I knew my fuel gauge wasn't functioning I drove it around and still forgot to keep the extra jug of gas in my car, which I actually bought for situations where I might ran out of gas lol.

Or maybe you're fuel filter is so clogged that you're not getting enough fuel. I've heard about people getting shitty fuel with actual pieces of debris in it from average gas stations. These lawnmower guys came into the az I work at and they showed me the fuel filter to their lawnmowers that they just filled with gas from a mobil and it was filled with shit. They told me they were even going to be compensated for the damages the fuel did to the motors. But yeah, as to the vaccum lines, that includes the pcv connector things because if they aren't holding at the either the valve covers or the intake you could have a vaccuum leak for your intake charge. Mine were hard as rocks. They literally chipped when I pulled them off. :icon_evil

Just my suggestions, I know you said vaccum is fine but if you can't get it running long enough, how can you check for sounds? So replace those old shitty hoses!

[Hobbes992]

Why the fuck am I a lurker? That sounds like some starcraft Zerg name.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

Alright, I replaced the rotor, it had a circular divot in it, then I took apart the afm and cleaned out the connections and resoldered them. I also cleaned the connections on the spark plug wires and the ignition coil. I secured the Bvsv hose with a zip tie to make sure it didn't go anywhere. So far it's running well and timing is perfect. :icon_bigg

[JustAnotherVictim]

^SWEEETT!!! A technical explanation :D^
Just curious though, because when I had an N/a the AFM was unplugged when I went to start it one time and it started up and died very quickly. So what I'm assuming you're saying is if the connection isn't made it won't start but if it is and the AFM is just bad it will start fine.

[Jervis Mcstabby]

It turns over more than one revolution while cranking doesn't it? All you need to do is verify timing ie, spark at the correct moment. For a no start condition other timing is not important. There are several ways to do this, not the least of which is a timing light. Works just as well during cranking as when running. Think about it. After all, a no start conditon is a very common problem in the automotive world. Ask any good mechanic and he'll tell you several ways to do it. See below for a few of the tricks I use.
:icon_bigg Thanks that clears up that idea a good bit. I think the main problems for mine were that :
1. The inner contact area on the rotor was worn and had a circle divot in it.
2. The main terminal connection between the igniter coil and wire was pretty dirty.

I had these symptoms once before I switched the distibutor cap, and all I did to fix it then was clean the cap terminals. Don't know why I didn't think to check under the cap.
Funny thing, jetjock, after you commented about blaming the car, I was gonna change the thread title to "Help! I'm being a douche about my Supra!", but I can't ,so oh well!:biglaugh:

Well thank you and everyone else for giving me ideas, I'll remember (most of) them!:runaway:

[Jervis Mcstabby]

YESSSSS!!!!! New title!:boobies: :boink: ::w00t::