White smoke on deceleration... [Archive]

Supra

06-28-2006, 07:51 AM

Re my new motor:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19395

My GF was following me the other night and commented that 'when I passed a guy, my car's exhaust was clean, but when I was done passing him (when I let off the gas) there was a puff of blue smoke'. I hadn't noticed this but now that I'm paying attention to it, there is a light to moderate puff of blue smoke when I let off. It seems worse when I run 15psi of boost (highest yet), let off and coast with the car in nuetral or up shift creating minimal vaccum. If I boost and then decel. in gear (high vaccuum) it doesn't smoke, or there's very little smoke which is why I probably never noticed it.

I'm betting the rings aren't seated, but I have 1,050 miles on the motor now. Should I be concerned or is the motor still breaking in?

Break in so far has been:
0 miles - 30W Valvoline new oil filter
0-5miles - new oil filter
5-100miles - 10W40 Castrol new oil filter
1,000- miles - 10W40 Castrol new oil filter

I was generally easy on the motor for the first 200 miles, then I beat it pretty good with hard decel. I'm wondering if the rings still have a chance to seat after 1,000 miles. Absolutely no other run problems and the plugs looked good after 500miles.

IJ.

06-28-2006, 07:53 AM

I wouldn't have changed to the multivis oil so soon.....

Supra

06-28-2006, 08:06 AM

I wouldn't have changed to the multivis oil so soon.....

You're right, I didn't change it that soon. The 100 should have read 500 per my other thread:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20617&highlight=break+oil

drjonez

06-28-2006, 10:52 AM

what's the PCV setup?

Supra

06-28-2006, 12:42 PM

what's the PCV setup?

This is the first time I'm running a catch can. If you DL the video from my rebuild thread, it's very clear what i have but in simple terms it's the stock PCV pipe cut off, then a ~1/2" hose from there to the catch can. Then from the can down to the ground. Catch can itself is a generic that has 3/8" ID in/out with no check valves. I thought it would suffice.

Should I run a long hose from the PCV to the ground to bypass the can and do a couple runs? :1zhelp:

IJ.

06-28-2006, 05:19 PM

Probably just a case of you need some vaccum to scavenge the blowby.
(not enough flow at atmo to keep up)

dbsupra90

06-28-2006, 05:40 PM

Probably just a case of you need some vaccum to scavenge the blowby.
(not enough flow at atmo to keep up)

yep i agree. it works a lot better running it to the intake tube instead of road draft.
the rings should have seated by now. 15psi should have taken care of that. if not run 30psi just to be sure ;)

drjonez

06-28-2006, 05:41 PM

you guys beat me to it....

Supra

06-29-2006, 07:58 AM

I'll get a nipple welded to the AL intake pipe as soon as possible. See if that cures the problem. Any longer term effects from this or should the smoke clear up?

drjonez

06-29-2006, 08:01 AM

no probs doing that, provided the catch can can condense out the oil....

running it that way puts a bit of vac on the crankcase, pulling blowby out and helping the rings seal better....

Supra

07-04-2006, 08:40 AM

I re-routed the catch can to the intake and the problem hasn't changed. :3d_frown:

Also checked the turbo for shaft play (OK). It seems like the more boost pressure I run, the worse it is when I let off. Doesn't do it between shifts though, only about 1-2 secs after I let off from a hard, WOT run.

I'm going to view the problem from another car to get a first hand look at if it's coming from the tailpipe and what color it really is. It certainly looks blue from in the rearview mirror. I plan to do a compression check tonight and see if the numbers look good. Check the PCV catch can for flow and try directly running the PCV line to the intake (bypass the catch can). :3d_frown: :3d_frown: :3d_frown:

Other than this 'problem', the car is running great! No misfires, no overheating and builds boost fast. (Knock on wood) :love:

mkiiSupraMan18

07-04-2006, 08:53 AM

(Knock on wood)

Why would anyone menton knocking on anything around a 7m? :icon_conf
I'm just curious to see how things play out for you, incase I have this prob or something similar w/ my rebuild.

bensn8

07-04-2006, 09:45 AM

Supra

07-05-2006, 10:26 AM

It could be bad seals on your turbo, When you checked for shaft play I bet you checked on the intake side. Remove the elbow and check for any oil.
Read this. http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19394

Doesn't matter which side you check from. It's the same shaft. :icon_razz If you're leaking oil to the elbow, I would think that it's going to slow burn leaving a long cloud trail.

I have a sharp *POOF* of smoke a few seconds after letting off that literally leaves a small "wall" of smoke. The kicker is that if I go WOT but shift 'slow' it does NOT smoke at all. I have to actually let off and then wait a full 1-2 secs then it lets out a *poof*.

I just got back from a long week of travels so I'm finally starting to trouble shoot it. The motor has 1,100 miles now with no run problems other than this annoying puff of smoke.

I still need to follow the car and see the problem from behind. Last night I would have swore that it gave a quick, potent puff of blue smoke (twice, separate runs). This morning I boosted and I would swear that it gave a sharp light gray puff. :nono:

Problem is not getting worse, and it's not getting better. I might just pay to set it on a dyno for an hour. :3d_frown: It'll be easier to troubleshoot that way.

Supra

07-05-2006, 02:18 PM

LOL, how's this for luck. Blew a second coolant hose today. One of a handful that didn't get replaced during the rebuild and it looks pretty old, probably shouldn't have re-used it. It's the one under the T-stat this time. I was boosting, got the same cloud only bigger this time and then I smelled that sickly sweet smell that all MKIII owners know so well. I'm wondering if this was the cause of my "questionably blue smoke"??? Guess we'll find out tomorrow... :3d_frown:

I'm going to have nightmares about cylinder pressure entering the cooling system and popping ALL my hoses. BHG!!!! NOOOOOOO!!!!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :cry: :cry:

Owned and stranded at work by a $0.99 hose. Priceless.
http://poweredbythought.com/suprarebuild2006/engine/100_0389.jpg

supra90turbo

07-05-2006, 03:02 PM

aaaaaaaaand this is why you replace ALL hoses when the engine is out. It's easier and far safer.

MDCmotorsports

07-05-2006, 03:59 PM

Rich:
Have you tried another air filter? Possibly one of larger volume or better quality?

Just a thought... cheap filters will create vacuum and cause oil comsumption.

nickel and dimed

07-05-2006, 04:02 PM

Rich:
Have you tried another air filter? Possibly one of larger volume or better quality?

Just a thought... cheap filters will create vacuum and cause oil comsumption.

This is news to me. Could you explain where and how a cheaper filter could do this?

MDCmotorsports

07-05-2006, 11:03 PM

Some cheap filters on a highflow (upgraded turbo) cause too much vacuum on the intake side of the turbo.

drjonez

07-06-2006, 06:15 AM

This is news to me. Could you explain where and how a cheaper filter could do this?

low flow.

Supra

07-06-2006, 01:28 PM

Rich:
Have you tried another air filter? Possibly one of larger volume or better quality?

Just a thought... cheap filters will create vacuum and cause oil comsumption.

It's a good sized K&N, and I'm only running ~15PSI. <shrug>

MDCmotorsports

07-06-2006, 06:43 PM

Who built the turbo and what BOV are you running?

Supra

07-07-2006, 08:04 AM

I thought MDC built the turbo, or had a hand in building it anyways. It is an early version of the JT62 bought it through Jeff T. BOV is a Greddy S, which is why I'm limiting myself to only 15psi (17psi once or twice). I've had no flutter or surge probs at either level.

BIG UPDATE>

I finally managed to get my GF to drive my Supra while I tagged behind in another vehical. The smoke is definitely coming from the tail pipe, and it is definitely white, not blue. It is odorless. :3d_frown: Therefore, it is probably coolant... (Although I'm surprized it doesn't have that sickly sweet waterwetter smell???)

To summarize, the more I boost, the worse the problem gets. The Problem is a white cloud of smoke that poofs out the tail pipe delayed after boosting. It does poof a bit between shifts but not enough to see from inside the car. It doesn't smoke at all at idle cruising or light acceleration, so vaccuum seems to be the key.

I absolutely cannot believe the MHG has failed. The deck was surfaced and checked for flat, then hand lapped with a 30lbs. lapping tool, then checked for flat again. I didn't bother to check surface Ra because I used a Titan MHG instead of my usual Greddy but the surface should have been well within range. The Titan HG had rougher/wider Ra specs than the Greddy IIRC. I drilled the rivets out and copper coated both sides of the new MHG. Wiped both block and head with mineral spirits, let it evaporate, set the gasket, then the head on. ARP studs torqued 25, 55, 85 which what I always do. At 500 miles, loosened one at a time and re-torqued to 85 ft/lbs.

The head on the other hand has been through some serious engine failures. I've had this head for a long time and loking back it's been torqued down 3 times, once on a severely overheated motor. It has a bit of money dumped into it in P&P and valve work. Before using it this time, I checked the cam journals for the normal damage and they were like new. Oil clearances mic'ed out fine and the bottom/journals were straight. The head was surfaced and installed on another motor for 5,000 miles prior to being used on my current motor. The bottom of the head was in good shape (no rings,pits).

I'm going to do a CO2 / coolant test when the car cools down today. I talked to Jeff T and he suggested looping the coolant line for the turbo to eliminate that as a possible coolant source. If I have to pull the head, I'm going to send a different head to the machine shop and replace the whole thing.

I do have a Innovate WB O2 sensor. Is there any cause for concern burning coolant past the WB in terms of destroying the sensor? I have no cat conv. so I'm not worried about any problems there.

Will post if I find out more...

drjonez

07-07-2006, 08:22 AM

...and copper coated both sides of the new MHG...

that's a bit concerning....i've never been a fan of that.

Supra

07-07-2006, 10:10 AM

that's a bit concerning....i've never been a fan of that.

Copper coating in general or copper coating a new MHG? I've coppered a few used MHG and I've yet to have one fail.

I've never coppered a new MHG but it was suggested by several ppl. Some brake/blue stuff was also recommended but I opted away from that. :3d_frown:

I'm thinking that I should just buy a greddy MHG, redo another head and swap them before I get too many miles on the motor. I have thousands of $$$ into this build. The last thing I want is to have bottom end problems because I washed coolant into the oil.

drjonez

07-07-2006, 10:15 AM

do the block test and a leakdown and see what that gets you....

Supra

07-07-2006, 10:25 AM

do the block test and a leakdown and see what that gets you....

Will do tonight. I just did the CO2 test (NAPA chemical blue->yellow headgasket tester) and I couldn't get it to change color. Both chambers are solid blue. When I was done - I blew into the end of the tester and the chemical turned bright yellow so I know if there was CO2 present in the radiator, it would have picked it up.

How frustrating. I was sorta hoping for yellow so I could buy and replace the head and my smoke problem would go away. Isn't that sad. :1zhelp:

It's true what they say - "It's hard to quit smoking...". :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

That leaves the engine compression, leakdown test, and bypassing the turbo coolant line...

malloynx

07-07-2006, 11:44 AM

this is a long shot but worth a look. i was blowing white smoke about a month ago and i was stumped. turned out to be a very small leak from my upper rad hose and while crusing a tiny bit of coolant was getting sucked into the turbo and then being burned off.

it took me like 3 days to find the problem. just make sure you don't have any external leaks that the coolant is landing on the air filter

Supra

07-07-2006, 12:14 PM

Was hoping that was the problem when the little hose blew. (see above) :3d_frown:

This is the new representitive for my Supra -> :3d_frown:
Many other Supras that I've working on and rebuilt -> :icon_bigg
My Supra's current status -> :3d_frown:

Supra

07-07-2006, 12:48 PM

I was just thinking about the last few weeks while on my lunch break and was trying to remember the worse conditions under which I ever re-installed a HG. Turns out the worse I ever did was a few weeks ago. I thought I'd toss up a little story to entertain... I bought a nice 1990 Cressida while rebuilding my engine (~4 weeks ago) from a young guy for $150. He had changed the HG and fired it up see white smoke billowing out, gave up and decided my house would be a good home for it. He told me how he and his friends spent days changing the HG just to have it BHG immediately again. Just for fun, we bought the car, took the car and the guy home with us and my GF and I changed the HG while he waited/helped. Took about 3 hours total.

The block was more pitted than anything I had seen before. Looked like iron colored sandpaper in areas. The head had deep depressions from the previous-previous HG. His "new" HG actually still looked new. Bearing in mind that we bought it for $150 and didn't really care much about it... I took a 3M pad on a high speed grinder and wheeled the top of the block/head clean. We slapped on a copper soaked stock HG and torqued the old factory bolts to 75 ft/lbs. Changed the milky brown oil & filter. So far my GF drove it for 3 weeks straight with no problems.

That damn Cressida is holding together better than my $%*@^ 7MGTE. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :nono:

IJ.

07-07-2006, 05:55 PM

Rich: LOL my worst car repair story was from when I was a kid!

I had a 5L V8 1972 Monaro and had broken a skirt on a piston and didn't have anywhere covered to work on it.

Being young and stupid decided to pull a head drop the pan and repiar it in car in the middle of Winter!

Got it finished but ended up with pneumonia and almost died! DOH!
(many hours soaked to the skin in the cold is surprise surprise NOT a good thing)

supra90turbo

07-09-2006, 02:12 AM

lol ian... that'd be something to die for :nono:

I'm a bit too fussy to work outside in inclement weather....

Supra

07-10-2006, 08:01 AM

I wasn't able to source a leakdown tester all weekend. :icon_mad: Then, on a fluke a friend from SM called for a minor part and in conversation - he has a leakdown tester. He's going to loan it to me tonight... I didn't bother doing a compression test yet either.

UPDATE>>>
I did bypass the turbo and make two runs. If anything that made the problem worse. There's no shaft play, the turbo spins and spools fine and the smoke didn't go away with the coolant bypassed so I'm ruling the turbo out.

I'll see what the leakdown/compression test shows tonight (barring rain) and see what happens from there.
-Rich

Supra

07-10-2006, 08:05 AM

Rich: LOL my worst car repair story was from when I was a kid!

How about cheapest major repair?

A college kid brought a rod knocking NA Supra to my garage without any cash. I pulled the motor and swapped one rod bearing on the rod knocking 7MGE, reinstalled the motor. Total $$$ spent was $30.00 on a bearing and can of oil pan sealer. :icon_bigg

drjonez

07-10-2006, 08:06 AM

how did you bypass the turbo? just the intake?

jdub

07-10-2006, 08:19 AM

....and copper coated both sides of the new MHG.

I'm with DrJonez on this one and just finished a post on the subject. Read this: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb70228.htm

A bit long, but good info on HG failures...the following part on using a sealer is a direct quote:

"Another installer error is using a sealer on a coated composition head gasket. "Some sealers will react with the gasket coating and turn it into goo," claims McKnight. "Our philosophy with Victor-Reinz gaskets is if a gasket requires a sealer, we will include it with the gasket. If no sealer comes with the gasket, it doesn’t need any, and no sealer should be used."

Many people have gotten away with using a spray on a new MHG, but it can (and has) induced a failure too...not worth it IMHO. A stock composite gasket is another story...there is no factory rubber coating to mess up.

BTW...I blew that little hose's brother at the back of the head. Shut down right away, but the damage was done. It got just hot enough to blow the HG :3d_frown:

Supra

07-11-2006, 08:18 AM

how did you bypass the turbo? just the intake?

The turbo has AN-6 lines for both sides. I unscrewed the inner coolant line from the top of the T-stat. I unscrewed the outer coolant line from the turbo and looped it to the top of the T-stat housing. The flow would be the same as a NA supra. The inner line stays attached to the turbo, but open at the T-stat end. I did one boosted run and let it idle for a long time with the hood open to cool down.

I'm with DrJonez on this one and just finished a post on the subject. Read this: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb70228.htm

I've always used Greddy HG's + copper spray with great success in the past. This is the first time I used a Titan. I can definitely see the possibility of copper/solvent attacking the rubber HG coating. :3d_frown:

I did manage to borrow a leak down tester from an SM member. I'll do the tests tonight and post where I'm at in the morning. I looked throught he garage and I have 4 heads, 2 of which are NA and the journals are excellent so my worse case senario is sending those heads to the machine shop. <$500 to repair without pulling the motor is something I can certainly handle. The worst thing now is that I have old style ARP studs. It's such a PITA to remove a head in car with those studs. :3d_frown: :3d_frown: :3d_frown:

jdub

07-11-2006, 08:26 AM

One other thing...I've never used a Titan before either, but I hear they have a rivet that can interfere with the seal. The Cometic has a similar rivet; it is on the block/head mating surfaces of the gasket and requires removal. Do you remember if there was one on your Titan MHG? If so, that will definitely do it!

MDCmotorsports

07-11-2006, 10:41 AM

jdub

07-11-2006, 12:32 PM

Actually there is 2 rivets on the commetic.

I do believe you are correct Sir! :icon_bigg

Supra

07-11-2006, 03:46 PM

I do believe you are correct Sir! :icon_bigg

I used the ARP studs to align the HG, 2 rivets removed and all throughly checked for clearance. I had two people help me with the head. Myself and one other lowered it while my GF aligned it with the studs. I've done this many times and never had a problem. I checked the front plate hieght verses the block to make sure the front plate wasn't raised. Trimmed the front plate gaskets with a new single edge razor. Heh, I actually remember doing a visual check from the sides to make sure the HG layers looked compressed. :cry: I still am doubtful of a BHG, but if it's a MHG installation problem, it has to be related to the copper spray.

Believe me, I'm cmopletely floored that there's a ANY problems...

IJ.

07-11-2006, 05:27 PM

I lost a MHG using sealer :(

I suspect mine had let go earlier than I thought as this build runs much cooler under boost.

Supra

07-19-2006, 07:41 AM

do the block test and a leakdown and see what that gets you....

OK, I finally did the compression / leakdown test. Here's the results after 1,500 miles on the motor:

Leakdown
#1 - 4% to PCV only
#2 - 5% to PCV only
#3 - 4% to PCV only
#4 - 5% to PCV only
#5 - 6% to PCV only
#6 - 5% to PCV only

Compression (first stroke/peak)
#1 - 100/180
#2 - 100/170
#3 - 105/175
#4 - 100/170
#5 - 100/180
#6 - 100/180

There was no sign of pressure whatsoever from the cooling, exhaust or intake. I removed the o2 sensor to listen @ the exhaust. The compression numbers are a bit varied but the motor is newer and the compression is quite good and high.

I assume this means either high cylinder pressure or heat is required to cause the problem??? What do you pros think? :icon_bigg

I want to toss this out too - I want to drive it to the Chicago 2006 meet August 10th-14th (or similar). The car is running perfect, aside from the minor smoke on decel only. I'd like to get the boost back up to 17psi and tune it to around 11:1 AFR. Safe to do or not?

drjonez

07-19-2006, 07:47 AM

#s look good to me.....CRANK IT UP! ;)

seriously, i'd keep an eye on it and just drive it....

Supra

07-19-2006, 08:20 AM

#s look good to me.....CRANK IT UP! ;)

seriously, i'd keep an eye on it and just drive it....

After every race I'll have to ask " Can you pull over so I can see what my supra just puked onto your hood?". :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

The compression numbers look OK to you? I was worried about the 2,3,4 dip to 170... That 175 in the middle helps I guess. When I was testing I thought for sure it was going to be 160 or less. :cry:

I should add that the motor sat for a week prior to testing and was therefore stone cold and cylinders dry during testing. I did the leak down first, then compression tested it. Also, the plugs looked reasonably good but with a soot ring around the lower ceramic. I had a NGK 7 heat range in there running ~15psi.

MDCmotorsports

07-19-2006, 10:19 AM

Supra

07-19-2006, 11:17 AM

Rich:
Like the good doctor said, run it. Also, did you check to make sure that there wasn't any pressure pushing back into the cooling chamber (rising coolant level into the radiator?)

If the turbo continues it habits, send it back to me. A piece of FOD (foriegn object debris) may have been sucked up and caused the the assembly to come out of balance. If you see no shaft play (radially or axially) then may I suggest going with a bigger air filter with more volume. Make sure it is of quality (ITG, K&n etc)

WE WANT YOU AT CHICAGO!

*I* definietly want to run it!!! I needed to get some input. To me the results are saying that the problem is either a head crack that's expanding with heat/pressure, or a problem external to the cylinders (turbo, ???). I need to get this smoking problem resolved...

Radiator cap was off and I carefully topped it to the edge with water. There was absolutely no pressure to the radiator or else it would have pushed the water. I used 100PSI through a brand new snap-on tester and when it snapped onto the adapter. Under pressure, it was so silent that I was yelling @ the crickets to shut up so I could listen for air leaking. There was so little pressure escaping anywhere that I had to cap the valve cover and put my thumb on one of the PCV outlets to hear/feel air coming out. I put ducttape on the T-body opening to cover it 95% so i could hear/feel air escaping there. Every cylinder was set to TDC with a dial indicator + extension.

What do you mean by "it's habits"? I don't think it has exhibited anything I would call a habit, at least not in a negative sense. The turbo has always had a bit of play up and down, but it still has no play front to rear. The amount of play hasn't changed since new. Is it possible a seal in the turbo is leaking a bit? Because to be honest, I'm very happy with this particular turbo and I'd hate to possible hurt it. I'd be more than happy to send it in for a check up (after Chicago :biglaugh: ). If I plug one side of the coolant lines with a rubber cork, and put vaccum to the other side of the jacket, it should hold vaccuum right? I can probably arrange to try that...

YOu meanted the air cleaner earlier too. As far as the air cleaner... It's a new 8" long K&N w/ 4" attachment straight to the 4" turbo. When I did my "turbo coolant bypassed" run, there was nothing on the front of the turbo. No AFM, no nothing. With the turbo "open" and the turbo coolant bypassed the smoking problem was equal or worse, certainly not less.

Are you going to be at Chicago meet? If so, shoot me a cell # and I'll get in touch with you at the meet. I plan to do all activities - except I have to drive home (Rockford, IL) every night so I'll miss the late night stuff. :3d_frown:

Supra

07-19-2006, 12:02 PM

Also, how do you change a title? I want to change blue to white since blue is not correct anymore.

dbsupra90

07-19-2006, 12:33 PM

Also, how do you change a title? I want to change blue to white since blue is not correct anymore.

you have to have a mod change the title.

i'll be in chicago too and would be willing to give a hand if you need it.

dave

Supra

07-19-2006, 12:53 PM

you have to have a mod change the title.

i'll be in chicago too and would be willing to give a hand if you need it.

dave

That's cool. I don't think Gwen will be able to go. IIRC, she will be flying to Maine that weekend and has to work prior.

MDCmotorsports

07-19-2006, 11:52 PM

Rich I was thinking about something today.

What brand of oil, what weight, and how much oil pressure are you running?

Supra

07-20-2006, 07:44 AM

Rich I was thinking about something today.

What brand of oil, what weight, and how much oil pressure are you running?

Breakin first 500 miles - Valvoline non-synthetic 30W
Currently 500-1500 miles - Castrol non-synthetic, 10-40W
Was planning to switch to synthetic after 2,500 miles

Oil pressure with shimmed pump is 12psi at idle, 35psi @ 2,300 and ~45psi @ 3,000+ I have the stock oil cooler, flushed throughly, lines replaced.

I know some synthetic oils burn white. Is that what you were thinking? :icon_bigg No odor, and no sooty bumper. It's like there's no problem, yet there it is... :3d_frown:

Friday night and Saturday morning is basically dedicated to tuning the car and getting boost back up to 17psi, 20+ if I can get some high octane fuel. I'm leaving the video camera at home this time - IJ/Jeff. :biglaugh:

MDCmotorsports

07-20-2006, 08:46 AM

Well Im thinking about having a restrictor made for the turbo.

This is a very common practice on some of the v8 application turbos. Typically a turbo doesn't like to see over 40psi under decell.

Supra

07-20-2006, 10:15 AM

Well Im thinking about having a restrictor made for the turbo.

This is a very common practice on some of the v8 application turbos. Typically a turbo doesn't like to see over 40psi under decell.

Oh, I see. I don't recall what my oil pressure looks like under decel but it would be a safe assumption that it's ~45psi or greater... My memory is that the oil pressure levels off at ~45psi @ >3,000RPM but wasn't specifically paying attention to that detail. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't honestly remember what the oil pressure is when running +4,500RPM under boost or decel. I should have the car back together tonight and will be able to make a note of the actual numbers.

drjonez

07-20-2006, 11:12 AM

what size is your feed/drain for the turbo?

Supra

07-20-2006, 12:03 PM

what size is your feed/drain for the turbo?

I knew that was coming next... :biglaugh:

AN-6 for the coolant.
AN-6 for the oil. ***EDIT oil feed is AN-4***
Something larger for the drain.... Sorry but don't know the actual size. :icon_conf

It's supposed to be the equivilent to this:
http://suprasport.com/product.asp?itemid=481&catid=216
...except mine has pretty Earl's fittings instead of hydraulic crimped lines.

Supra

07-20-2006, 12:04 PM

http://www.supramania.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8336&stc=1&d=1153415074

drjonez

07-20-2006, 12:19 PM

I knew that was coming next... :biglaugh:

AN-6 for the coolant.
AN-6 for the oil.
Something larger for the drain.... Sorry but don't know the actual size. :icon_conf

It's supposed to be the equivilent to this:
http://suprasport.com/product.asp?itemid=481&catid=216
...except mine has pretty Earl's fittings instead of hydraulic crimped lines.

no restrictor on the oil inlet? if not, then there's your problem. -6 is WAY too big for oil feed.....drop it to -4 or -3 or get a restrictor....

drjonez

07-20-2006, 12:19 PM

http://www.supramania.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8336&stc=1&d=1153415074

oh, and NEVER run a fram oil filter....:3d_frown:

Supra

07-20-2006, 01:12 PM

oh, and NEVER run a fram oil filter....:3d_frown:

LOL, I ran FRAM for the first filter change because I knew I was changing it out after 5 minutes of run time. It's NAPA / WIX now!!! (Unless you have a problem with Wix).

Supra

07-20-2006, 01:25 PM

no restrictor on the oil inlet? if not, then there's your problem. -6 is WAY too big for oil feed.....drop it to -4 or -3 or get a restrictor....

Sorry Adam - I talked to Jeff and he says the oil feed line is in fact AN-4. W/ the shimmed pump, is AN-4 too large?

Interesting side note while digging for info... Crimped connectors have a significantly smaller ID than Earl's/Aeroquip fittings. I happen to have Earl's throughout...

MDCmotorsports

07-20-2006, 09:06 PM

Rich, lets put on a restrictor and see what she does.

dbsupra90

07-20-2006, 10:30 PM

Interesting side note while digging for info... Crimped connectors have a significantly smaller ID than Earl's/Aeroquip fittings. I happen to have Earl's throughout...

should be the same. usually the crimped connectors are JIC line which will have a smaller OD due to hose design. internal dimensions should be the same.

drjonez

07-21-2006, 05:34 AM

should be the same. usually the crimped connectors are JIC line which will have a smaller OD due to hose design. internal dimensions should be the same.

depends on what connectors they are- the cheap ones have a tiny ID.

Supra

07-21-2006, 07:52 AM

Rich, lets put on a restrictor and see what she does.

No prob. I tried to find one local and the shops were all stumped... I did manage to score 5 gallons of C16 fuel though. :naughty:

I did a bit of T&T last night and double checked what I've posted.

Oil pressure goes up to ~45psi @ 3,000RPM and it stays rock solid through to 6,000RPM according to the factory gauge for what that's worth. Someone said they suspect my oil pressure would continue to climb after 3,000RPM.... Is not the case.

I tightened up the WG actuator a bit last night. It was giving me 7psi, and is now set to 13psi. I'm guessing that running 15psi with the actuator set to 7psi is too much of a gap for the EBC to cover. I'll make a separate post for that if needed.

I don't know what to say about the smoke... last night it looked very blue. I reset the fuel parameters while I was dinking with the actuator so the car is running extemely rich, which I'll try to improve tonight.

Back to square one again setting up boost control, and pulling fuel. :icon_mad:

drjonez

07-21-2006, 08:01 AM

Supra

07-21-2006, 08:33 AM

heh. your local shops suck if they don't have that restrictor....you could order one from atpturbo.com or something.

your oil press doesn't go up any more because of the stock oil cooler setup- it's pressure based. once you reach the set pressure (40ish...), the valve opens to the oil cooler and bleeds off all excess pressure.

My whole town sucks pretty major a$$ when it comes to import performance cars & turbos. That's the joy of living in the midwest - away from the big cities. Everything is domestic, carbed, BB and supercharged.

Any idea what ID size I should look for (or drill out to)? Damn, I'm so stupid. He had the NPT->AN-4 fitting in stock. I should have just had him tig weld the end closed and took that home. Then I could have drilled it out to whatever size I want. :icon_mad:

MDCmotorsports

07-21-2006, 08:55 AM

Rich, I have the oil restrictors in stock.

Supra

07-23-2006, 11:05 AM

Rich, I have the oil restrictors in stock.

Everything's on hold due to %^&*ed tranny. :3d_frown: Looks like I'll be driving something else to the meet??? :nono:

MDCmotorsports

07-23-2006, 03:44 PM

BAH HUMBUG! Go get another tranny and swap it out! ASAP! You have 3 weeks!

Snotcycle

07-23-2006, 08:26 PM

oh, and NEVER run a fram oil filter....:3d_frown:
LOL thats the FIRST thing i noticed when i looked at that picture

Supra

07-24-2006, 09:13 AM

BAH HUMBUG! Go get another tranny and swap it out! ASAP! You have 3 weeks!

When I posted that, I thought I had 2 weeks and next weekend I won't be home... At least that gives me an extra weekend. :1zhelp:

Electric S

08-27-2006, 01:18 AM

Is the smoke-problem solved?
I've the very same problem!

My pretty much stock set-up:
K&N FIPK (recharged it 2 months ago)
Full 3" exhaust (turbo-back)
Shimmed stock CT-26 (2 washers / bolt)
PCV set-up = stock

Mine is smoking after decelleration if the turbo has spooled
It's a pretty big cloud of blue smoke
If I drive like a old #&^% and the turbo hasn't build up boost, it doesn't smoke while decelerating

What can be the problem?
Bad valve stem seals or PCV or something?
I think I'll try to vent the PCV to the ground and see what happens

I'll try to make a vid today
Maybe it makes things a little bit more clear for you guys

5uprahboy

02-25-2007, 03:59 AM

BUMP!
I have the exact same problem.
I feel my smoke is blue/grey rather than white however.
There is oil after the turbo in the intercooler pipes, but nothing at the throttle body end of the intercooler piping. Does this mean it's vapourized by the time it gets to the T/B or maybe its just not enough to be an issue?

I don't understand why it only smokes when I lift off. It cant be the turbo as its not white.
I thought:
White = unburnt oil (i.e. turbo and not in the combustion chamber)
Grey/Blue = Burnt oil, (i.e. entering the combustion chamber somehow)
Is the above correct?

1988SupraDreams

02-25-2007, 05:35 AM

5uprahboy

02-25-2007, 01:49 PM

Stock PCV is to blame for oil in your IC pipes. Unfortunatley I can offer no further insights.

Sorry but I should have mentioned:
I'm running a 1G-GTE
KKK K26 Audi Turbo
HKS VPC (i.e. no AFM)
PCV is a short pipe from cam covers to T/B and apparently is working correctly.

Hunt

MDCmotorsports

02-25-2007, 07:52 PM

Hunt - Your turbo PCV system has to have vacuum pull from the turbo intake. Theres no other way around it.

Oil from the compressor seal or PVC system is blue, grey, or white.

Oil comming from the turbine seal is PURE WHITE.

Most turbo smoking comes from:

-Too small or dirty air filter
-Small drain line (must be -10 or larger)
-Too large of feed line. Must be no larger than -4.
-Kinked or clogged drain line
-Broken PCV system. A turbo must see vacuum internally to seal propperly
-Imbalanced turbine assembly (unit must be rebuilt)
-Dying turbo charger (Again, rebuild time)