Help is here! I dare the hard problems!

[estrellainc]

Ive been in music engineering for a long time.

I know that this forum can test my ability to the max!

I have wire diagrams for just about any car. alarms included!


so, give me a shout.
SM gave to me endless tech info- now its my turn to get LOUD!

from rta's to reference- its all good.

[estrellainc]

come on guys- i aint skeerd

Heres one on the WORST problem I can think of

Ground loops: the NASTY EVIL. :evil:

basically a ground loop is comprised of multiple connections of ground.

I.E.
More than one source for ground between two pieces of equipment.

this causes an imbalance of the input signal, an forces ground to seek the least resistive path to it. The results are unpredictable, and surely troublesome.

I did a google search on it. and found these resources

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ground+loop

(i edited this one for clarity)
DING DING- skools in session

Ground loop basics

What is ground loop?

A ground loop occurs when there is more than one ground connection path between two pieces of equipment. The duplicate ground paths form the equivalent of a loop antenna which very efficiently picks up interference currents. Lead resistance transforms these currents into voltage fluctuations. As a consequence of ground-loop induced voltages, the ground reference in the system is no longer a stable potential, so signals ride on the noise. The noise becomes part of the program signal.
Ground loop is a common wiring condition where a ground current may take more than one path to return to the grounding electrode at the SERVICE PANEL. AC powered computers all connected to each other through the ground wire in common building wiring. Computers may also be connected by data communications cables. Computers are therefore frequently connected to each other through more than one path. When a multi-path connection between computer circuits exists, the resulting arrangement is known as a "ground loop". Whenever a ground loop exists, there is a potential for damage from INTER SYSTEM GROUND NOISE.
A ground loop in the power or video signal occurs when some components in the same system are receiving its power from a different ground than other components, or the ground potential between two pieces of equipment is not identical.
Usually a potential difference in the grounds causes a current to flow in the interconnects. This in turn modulates the input of the circuitry and is treated like any other signal fed through the normal inputs. Here is an example situation where two separately grounded equipments are interconnected though signal wire ground and the mains grounding wire. In this situation there is 1A current flowing in the wire which causes 0.1V voltage difference between those two equipment grounding points.

Because there is voltage difference between the equipments, the signal in the interconnection wire sees that difference added to signal. This can be heard as humming noise on the wire because the AC current cause the voltage difference of those ground potentials to be also AC voltage. This is one reason for this 50 Hz or 60 Hz noise you hear in the audio signal (or see in video signal as annoying horizontal bars).
Another problem is the current flowing in the signal cable grounding wire. This current passes though the cable and through the equipment. Because of the way the current passes is not well designed this can cause lots noise to the equipment or other kind of problems (like computer lockups). Lots of designers count on ground being ground and do not optimize their design to eliminate their sensitivity to ground noise. If you are a product designer remember to take care that ground loop current does not cause problems in your equipment by designing proper grounding scheme inside the equipment.


Why ground loop is a problem?

Ground loop is a common problem when connecting multiple audio-visual system components together; there is a good change of making nasty ground loops. Ground loop problems are one of the most common noise problems in audio systems. Typical indication of the ground loop problem is audible 50 Hz or 60 Hz (depends on mains voltage frequency used in your country) noise in sound. Most common situation where you meet ground loop problems are when your system includes equipment connected to earthed electric outlet and antenna network or equipments connected to different grounded outlets around the room.
Everything connected to a single mains earth, which is usually connected to all the earth pins in all the power sockets in one room. Then antenna network is also grounded to same grounding point. This would normally be okay, as the grounding is only connected to each other in a star-like fashion from a central earth wire (leading to the real Earth via a grounding cable or metal pipe) earth cables run through your power cables into the equipment.
Once you take into account that some of your equipment is linked with shielded cable you are quite likely to face some problems. Currents could quite possibly run from one piece of equipment, into the earth cable, into another piece of equipment, then back to the first piece via a shielded audio cable. That wire loop can also pick up interference from nearby magnetic fields and radio transmitters.
The result is that the unwanted signal will be amplified until it is audible and clearly undesirable. Even voltage differences lower than 1 mV can cause annoying humming sound on your audio system.
A problem with audible noise coming from your audio system when other electronic components (fridge, water cooler, ect.) could be the result of a contaminated ground/neutral conductor in your A/C wiring and a ground loop in your audio system. This can happen when certain type of devices come on. Typically their power supplies are non-linear and throw garbage back onto the neutral and/or ground conductors. Usually line conditioners or UPS devices will not do anything to help solve this problem.

Common Causes for Computer System Problems

Many times when a user thinks that his system is 'bad' or has 'gone bad' the fault is electrical or magnetic in nature. Monitor problems are very often caused by nearby magnetic fields, neutral wire harmonics, or conducted/transmitted electrical noise. Intermittent lockups of computers are very often the caused by a Ground Loop, an electrical phenomena that sometimes manifests itself when a system and it's peripherals are improperly plugged into different electrical circuits. Many don't even know if their wall outlet is properly wired and grounded, an absolute necessity for a computer and peripheral to operate reliably and safely.
Have you ruled out Ground Loops in your computer system? Ground loops can cause problems to LAN connections if not properly wired. A ground loop caused by RS-232 connection to other computer can cause computer lockups.

When ground loop is not a problem

Ground loop does not cause problems when all of the following things are true:
None of the wires in the loop carry any current
The loop is not exposed to external changing magnetic fields
There is no radio frequency interference nearby
If there is any current following in any wires, there is then some potential difference which causes current to flow in other wires also which causes problems. The loop will also act as coil and pick current from the changing magnetic fields around it. Wire loop acts also like an antenna picking up radio signals.

What size of ground potential difference problems we are talking about?

Literature is speaking about Common Mode Noise of 1 to 2 Volt in "well grounded" plants and over 20 Volts in "poorly grounded" plants. Literature is also speaking of the current measured on a main service grounding (in a large building) in terms of Amps.
Where does this current and voltage difference come from ?

Current leakage of condensers between hot and ground and between neutral and ground, in for instance main filters, cause current in ground wires (and ground loops). The leakage current is typically measures in milli-amperes (typically less than 1 mA in computer equipments) per equipment. When you sum up maybe hundreds of such equipments you can easily get amperes.
The capacitance between line and ground of large heaters and motors, for example, can be much larger than the capacitance in filter capacitors. Currents from this source are usually of the order of 1 amp (rather than 0.1 A or 10 A)
Even a very small induced voltage can cause a very large current in a ground conductor loop, because the resistance (and inductance) is very low. These currents can indeed be tens of amps. Current induction can be caused for example by cables carrying high currents and from transformers.

What those grounding currents and voltage differences can do?
Small voltage differences just cause noise to be added to the signals. This can cause humming noise to audio, interference bars to video signals and transmission errors to computer networks.
Higher currents can cause more serious problems like sparking in connections, damages equipment and burned wiring. My own experience on the field is limited to sparking connectors, heating cables and damaged computer serial port cards. I have read about burned signal cables and smoking computers because of the ground differentials and large currents caused by them. So be warned about this potential problem and do not do any stupid installations.

:icon_bigg

[lagged]

that all is interesting but i have a question, first a LITTLE background;

i am a semester away from being CCNA certified (aside from my degree and other certificates..). Now, when troublshooting a network this issue has NEVER come up. you state several times (is all that your words or is it not? sources please..) that a "ground loop" can cause networking errors. when troublshooting a network there are only so many things that can fail at layer one.

an improperly wired cable can be one, improperly routing of network cable near power sources/lines, an unshielded cable is more vulnerable to noise, and of course a bad ground in your power wiring is always a NOTICABLE problem.

however in your post you make a "ground loop" out to be some specialized problem, but towards the end it deteriorates into nothing more than faulty wiring and bad selection of ground sources.

my real point is this, if you take your multi meter to test your ground point and the resistance is acceptable, its a good ground plain and simple. right or wrong?

[estrellainc]

edited a dozen times for ya
that all is interesting but i have a question, first a LITTLE background;

i am a semester away from being CCNA certified (aside from my degree and other certificates..). Now, when troublshooting a network this issue has NEVER come up. you state several times (is all that your words or is it not? sources please..) that a "ground loop" can cause networking errors. when troublshooting a network there are only so many things that can fail at layer one.

an improperly wired cable can be one, improperly routing of network cable near power sources/lines, an unshielded cable is more vulnerable to noise, and of course a bad ground in your power wiring is always a NOTICABLE problem.

however in your post you make a "ground loop" out to be some specialized problem, but towards the end it deteriorates into nothing more than faulty wiring and bad selection of ground sources.

my real point is this, if you take your multi meter to test your ground point and the resistance is acceptable, its a good ground plain and simple. right or wrong?

this thread was meant really for sound.

I dont wanna come off like the supreme authority on networking, I never was, or will prolly never be.

This is very interesting though, and i have learned somethin from it too.

(so here goes)
technically- YES
actually, NO

Ground loops are as serious as heart attacks when your listening/ recording your favorite music.

the end of the post should be simple, cuz a ground loop can be easily fixed just by adding a ground lift to the right piece of gear in the chain.

when I do a Final Mix for a client, I may have many, oh so many things hooked up to get the right sound from each element. it can spell NIGHTMARES for a crystal clear 90+ DB recording that has PUNCH!

ok

heres the resources
I did a google search on it. and found these resources
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ground+loop

then i edited one of the results for spelling, diction and more clarity

however, when dealing w/ sound its easier to find & diagnose because its usually audible. If you wanna diagnose the signal chain for a network, you wont be able to hear it.

BUT you could easily SEE distortion with an osscilloscope.
This was my #1 weapon for great sound. I cant hear FINE distortion, or ultra low noise- but a scope will! Make sure to add one to your arsenal too!


btw- my wheels were too spinnin cuz i've had the same probs with my network as mentioned above.
and YES, a bad hum can cause errors b/c the transmitted data will be corrupted with a bunch of goo

computers basically talk one language- 0's & 1's, or better yet On & off.
if the OFF (0) has a current, then it could translate to 1's. with no break in the signals caused by HUM to determine the actual breaks in transmission you end up with unreadable errors.

hope this helps!

[lagged]

if the OFF (0) has a current, then it could translate to 1's. with no break in the signals caused by HUM to determine the actual breaks in transmission you end up with unreadable errors.

of course, but that type of noise is almost always caused by external interferance.

my point was "ground loops" dont cause computers to crash, or networking errors as far as i am concerned.

a bad ground is a bad ground, plain and simple.

[lagged]

ground loops i think would be more of a problem in audio as you have stated, i guess what i objected to was including other things such as computer systems, to me it seems like a scare tactic. i say this because things like PC power supplies probably take this into account.

since this forum is about audio it is not entirely innappropriate at all.

it seems to me that a simple solution would be to include an isolation transformer, would it not?

come to think of it, isolation transformers may be part of the design of every PC power supply, but id have to research that further.

[lagged]

Fwiw Ianaee :)

[Yellow 13]

Uhhhh. Should there be smoke coming from my ears?

[Fuzz420]

Lagged i finished my 4 semesters of CISCO, this summer i plan i taking the certification exams before i get anymore rusty.

estrellainc-lets talk grounds briefly.

In my old/most recent setup. I ran an Orion 2250 "the beast" on a 4gauge wire. I was advised by the experts i talked to said, get the 4 to 1/0 plug and run 1/0 guage.As for the ground they told me i should run the same 1/0 directly back to the battery.Reason stating they told me the chassis ground as used in 95% of the setups on the street wasnt sufficent enough for a 300amp monster.

I went my own route and ran it into the chassis on huge bolt where my back seats used to be.Believe it or not my ground noise was almost inaudible.I also used aluminum 4 gauge to ground,(there where out of 4 guage copper).My frined informed me that it was aluminum, cause i had no idea, but it didnt seem to hinder performance of the system.

I really dont know where im going with this post anymore so lets see if i can pull it all together.How come only seriouse compitotors are the only ones utilizing a direct ground back to the battery.Its seems like jo-bob on the street with 4 15's and 4 1500w amps has his grounds ran into the chassis.But if henry-jo runs 4 15''s and 4 1500w amps and he's a competitor its a direct ground.I dont know if the type of vehicle or the age will determine if you will need a direct ground or not. Or if wattage and style of system has to do with a direct ground.Or even shop knowlegde, there could be a lot of variables involved with decided a style of ground

[estrellainc]

oh yeah. theres so many ways to hook up. IMO the only bad setup is the one that'll catch fire and toast your supe.

i have monglo wires right now in the soundsystem for my computer. a pc that'll BLOW AWAY my car system anyday. when it hums, ooh boy- shut the pre-amps, amps , eq's off- mixing board, everything quick cuz somethin is gonna burn up.

especially the tweeters on my yamaha NS-10M studio monitors.
they arent GENELEC, but EVERY reputable recording studio has a pair some where. i cant even begin to say how many songs from rap to rock (and everything else in between Hee-haw!) were mixed on NS10's!

this is what ive learned from years of connecting car systems-

by grounding directly to the chassis, you also ground directly to the altenator, main battery, ecu, anything that can ground back to the chassis.

by grounding to the battery alone, is kinda good (better with an optima) cause the battery itself kinda acts like a buffer between the altenator. optimas are quicker to charge, and dont wear out as quick as the ones that you have to add demineralized water. (yup, just like a supras radiator, mineral free water or better!) (cant remember the names if the different types of water right now)

(my preffered method)
by grounding to a SEPARATE battery, that has been isolated from the cars chassis, and is also charged through some dedicated circuitry, or separate regulator. you car wont have to deal with the severe drains on the main system.

IMO the separate system is the best because your power feed is limited, much more consistent, and free from an altenators surges and spikes when it reached the limit.
the regulator wont drain the cars system beyond the design limits.

thats a better way to hookup six, or eight batteries. one regulator per battery, and each battery powering a different component or parts of the system.

for ex.
one for the 60" plasma thats a 120 volt a/c component.
maybe a separate for the direct tv system.
it is possible to route whatevers necc. to a separate source and stay efficient.
like the amps or a hot tub may have a heavy draw, but the gigasoft car computer is draining slow.

the good setup is, if ya can wire it so wont drain the battery unless the key is ON. that way ya play the system till it dies, crank the car with the CARS fresh battery, and charge it all up.

[estrellainc]

BTW, people who compete in a sound DRAG race (?)-
the test tone is prerecorded (no one knows what source the drag committee has picked)
and it BLARES for one second. (usually theyll be sitting on the roof of the car to keep from blowin the top off the car- so funny!)

The winner is determined by the highest SPL.
(lane one-168.1db, lane two 168.3db, we have a winnner!)

also i wanna let everyone know that if it takes 10,000 watts to produce 168 db, to push ONE (1) more db (to get to 169db)- you have to DOUBLE the power. youre gonna push 20,000 watts. this is where the resistance and efficiency dictate how loud the system really is.

yeah to make it louder, go for the 98db/1w rated speaker before the ones rated at 89db/1w

ya have to accept that sometimes the better sounding, tighter speaker system could be less efficient



for reference, 1DB increments are the minimum noticeable difference we should be able to hear. and the pain in the ear at 168db is completely unbearable, and should give you a head start in your quest to go deaf.
Uhhhh. Should there be smoke coming from my ears?

hey fuzz420, is there smoke coming out the chalis? RASTAFARI!

[Fuzz420]

:lol: it never smoked. But by your description it would have been better for me to go directly back to the battery.My battery is better than an optima, and they guys i spoke with thru e-mail and phone told me that would be best, without going into great detail like you did. Second time around ill spend the extra money and get the copper cable and go directly to the battery with it.Thanks for the responce and pm ;)

[Fuzz420]

To comment on the spl drag, have seen what the europeans are doing. There generally running less power than guys here and there louder.Ive heard those guys are using more physics than raw power.

[estrellainc]

To comment on the spl drag, have seen what the europeans are doing. There generally running less power than guys here and there louder.Ive heard those guys are using more physics than raw power.

oh yeah. its become quite the contest of physics. I assume they dont rate music quailty (kinda dorky).

they get all excited. start jumpin around. (still those funny tech/geeks kick butt out there!)

personally, im probably more like you guys;
I get plenty more enjoyment making my system play deeeper than it should when im driving around or testing the bass on my mixes. its cool till you hear the same song on crappy speakers and didnt even recognize it., or a better system that makes the yota sound like a tin can.

everyone should have a well known REFERENCE song or CD to help you judge all the different systems out there, and to help you tune you gear when your song sounds better elsewhere.

[Fuzz420]

oh yeah. its become quite the contest of physics. I assume they dont rate music quailty (kinda dorky).

they get all excited. start jumpin around. (still those funny tech/geeks kick butt out there!)

personally, im probably more like you guys;
I get plenty more enjoyment making my system play deeeper than it should when im driving around or testing the bass on my mixes. its cool till you hear the same song on crappy speakers and didnt even recognize it., or a better system that makes the yota sound like a tin can.

everyone should have a well known REFERENCE song or CD to help you judge all the different systems out there, and to help you tune you gear when your song sounds better elsewhere.


I used dj magic mike: bass the final frontier to tune.Ive heard the cd so many times, so its perfect for reference for me. Ive used it in every system ive installed.

[cwapface]

to push ONE (1) more db (to get to 169db)- you have to DOUBLE the power.

bzzzz incorrect, db is a logarithmic scale so doubling of power occurs every 3db or so

[cwapface]

...waiting for cwapface to continue his post...


there's no continuing, there's not much more to it than that. sorry to disappoint :(

[estrellainc]

useless deleted

[Jeff Lange]

This thread is on thin ice, my suggestion is to find people to help instead of having a "need help, come to me" attitude, I dunno why, people just don't usually care for that.

Up to you, but this thread is in danger of closing due to just going so far downhill from a relatively decent start.

[estrellainc]

agreed.

i started looking at the other audio threads.
came back to see it when it had another post.

just to find-
your right on point.

i knew tryin to help others is the way forget about all the crap goin on over here.
sorry guys- stress outhere is killing me!

this had the right direction. it really is fun talkin to some really good people.

time to play some LOUD music!
again, sorry guys.

[estrellainc]

workin on some music

take a listen
http://esnips.com/web/supramaniathemeclips

[CF_Sapper]

i need a good quality deck that will work for my supra it has to play mp3's and sugesstions

[Jaguar_5]

How about an alarm wiring diagram? For a 87T

When i installed my remote start, i could not get the parking lights to flash, and somehow managed to prevent my headlights from going up or down anymore, and the retract control and all fuses are fine lol, the rest works though

Soon i'm gonna need to install it on my 2nd supra (i'll finally have use for the turbo timer!)

[lagged]

i need a good quality deck that will work for my supra it has to play mp3's and sugesstions

alpine. whats even better than playing mp3 cds, is that it has a cable to hook up to my ipod! its awesome.

[estrellainc]

How about an alarm wiring diagram?

When testing wires, use a voltmeter or multimeter.
DO NOT USE A TEST LIGHT: it is easy to damage the supra circuitry!
(please update me if there are any mistakes)

TOYOTA SUPRA 87-92 (and possibly 93)
Function... Color... Location-...
Start: Black/White (+) Ignition switch (harness)
Ignition #1: Black/Yellow (+) Ignition switch (harness)
Ignition #2: Black/Orange (+) Ignition switch (harness)
Accessory: Pink/Blue (+) Ignition switch (harness)
12 volt (constant): White(or White/Red)(+) Ignition switch (harness)
Brake Light: Green/White(+) Drivers Kick Panel
Tach Signal: Black (AC) Diagnostic Plug
Parking Lights: Green (+) Drivers Kick Panel
OEM Alarm Disarm: Purple/Yellow (-) Kick panel (either)
OEM Horn: Blue/Red (-) Steering Column Harness

[iirc: Supras use a negative door lock circuit. The door lock switch should have some voltage on it. When the unlock button is pressed, the voltage will fall to ZERO!]

Power lock: Green/Yellow(-) Kick panel (either)
Power unlock: Blue/Black(-) Kick panel (either)

[estrellainc]

How about an alarm wiring diagram? For a 87T
When i installed my remote start, i could not get the parking lights to flash, and somehow managed to prevent my headlights from going up or down anymore, and the retract control and all fuses are fine lol, the rest works though
Soon i'm gonna need to install it on my 2nd supra (i'll finally have use for the turbo timer!)

oops! saw the edit too late:

do ya want me check on the retract circuit anyways?

[s383mmber1]

How about a TEMS diagram, or is this ONLY audio related?

[estrellainc]

How about a TEMS diagram, or is this ONLY audio related?
lol!

i indulged in this thread cuz i wanted to test myself, and learn something too!

yes, this is the supra audio section.

yes, i will still (try) to help ya

admittedly i know much less about supras than i know about mixing and recording a great track. (after my rebuild, im sure that'll change too!)

now its my turn, HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
roflol-
:)
the 25D electrical wiring diagrams.pdf document has the TEMS diagram
on page (14 of 35).

the TSRM is available online

SM links here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013

CYGNUS: http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/fa/FA_38.html

the spaghetti (diagrams) can be found here:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/d/D_14.html

search and ye shall receive

[s383mmber1]

Thanks a lot man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +1~!

[estrellainc]

no applause, JUST SEND MONEY! im rebuildin dammit!

j/k -
...always glad to help (our newly licensed) buddy!

[s383mmber1]

This has been bothering me for a while! Is that you in your avatar?!?!

sry

[estrellainc]

This has been bothering me for a while! Is that you in your avatar?!?!

sry

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7913/1214265573171dg.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1214265573171dg.jpg)

yup :eek:

[Jaguar_5]

I'd send money, but i'm rebuilding too lol

Thanks for the info, much appreciated :)

Though even with the 'green wire in kick panel' i still couldnt find the one for the parking lights... theres a lot of freakin green wires there lol

[estrellainc]

I'd send money, but i'm rebuilding too lol

Though even with the 'green wire in kick panel' i still couldnt find the one for the parking lights... theres a lot of freakin green wires there lol

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2171/daylightrunsys8nn.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daylightrunsys8nn.jpg)

He's not kiddin!

[meagainstheworld]

still taking requests for problems?

[wingman]

ok I'm a complete audio retard, i've got several components, but no clue what would be a good way to rig them up. So I'll ask you.

i have a head unit with 4 standard outputs and 1 amp output. I have a 50Wx4 amp, 4 6.5" speakers (two are currently in the front doors, and I'd like ot keep them there), 2 5" speakers, and 2 1" tweeters. How would I go about rigging all of this up so that it sounds at least decent for a metal/industrial style music. Keep in mind this is just a temporarly setup until I can come up with the cash to get something better.

[estrellainc]

still taking requests for problems?
Yup. I was on a rebuild shopping mission (more like mission impossible! ;)

-next caller! j/k

ok I'm a complete audio retard, i've got several components, but no clue what would be a good way to rig them up. So I'll ask you.

i have a head unit with 4 standard outputs and 1 amp output. I have a 50Wx4 amp, 4 6.5" speakers (two are currently in the front doors, and I'd like ot keep them there), 2 5" speakers, and 2 1" tweeters. How would I go about rigging all of this up so that it sounds at least decent for a metal/industrial style music. Keep in mind this is just a temporarly setup until I can come up with the cash to get something better.

Reading the post, I have had the same problem with the same setup before.

This battle will be won through electronics.
could ya answer some quick questions first though?
1) The 1" tweeters- do they have thier own crossover or are they passive (no crossover)?

2) the head unit, - The standard outputs are amplified by the unit right?

3) The 1 amp output- are all ya see are just 2 RCAS?

4) are there any extra speakers ya havent mentioned- like a 8" tube or somethin for the program music thats gonna play lower then the 6.5's, or the 5's?

but for now- your doin great by putting bigger speakers in the doors!
imho- when yet get the funds- try to match 6.5" in th rear as well!
(much better for surround (other reasons too!) as often used in metal/industrial style music mixes)

WINGMAN! Pt2 coming after some needed info from ya!
:evil2:

[wingman]

1. the tweeters are Infinity 1011t's, which from what I've read have passive outboard crossovers (whatever that means lol)

2. yes, the standard outputs are amplified by the head. It's a clear shot from the HU to the speakers

3. yes, just 2 RCA jacks on the head

4. as of now there aren't....i can probably pick up something cheap from wally world like an Xplod though if it makes that much of a difference.

basically I have 2 6.5" speakers, 2 5" speakers, the two tweets, and the amp just sitting here collecting dust....i don't mind spending another $75 or so after the wiring components though. And if it helps the amp has a switch on it for 2 channel for 100W each, or 4 channel for 50W each. I'm not sure which outputs it uses on 2 channel though, unless you have to brige them yourself.

[estrellainc]

Oh.- :nono:

i feel like this system is gonna sound tinnie- or thin.
so trust your ears to balance the tone from the speakers.
(much easier with analyzers- )
theres many small speakers but not enough bigger ones to balance.
i kno... that will come.

assuming you wanna use the provided amp & equipment.
i want ya to try to...
hook up the 4 speakers to the amp in 4 channel mode.
ya need power wires, Y adapters for gettin 4 outta 2 channels from the deck.
get connected.

tweeters never need a lot of power. trouble is giving it enough gain.
thats not a problem right now.

the deck has to connect via rca to the amp. itll be clearer than the decks amp.
now hook the tweeters to two channels from the deck using the crossovers right?

try a test to see if that amp output fades using rear or front
*********
nows when to decide if this is the headunit to keep.
(hope it works so ya got more money for a good electronic crossover)
*********

IF YA get an xplod. *or whatever
get more rca's N hook it up! nothing less than 4 chan RCA outputs. (you wont need the Y's)

you should use a speaker output from the deck to the tweets for now.
no piggy back
with speaker connections- stick to one speaker per output on the 4 channel amp

dont worry it takes more than two speakers to
make you unstable OHMs! (lol-)

Them 1011t tweets will be an greater asset further down the road.
***with***
losing the passive and gettin electronic crossovers
(i guess thats chapter two)

[estrellainc]

still taking requests for problems?

come on next caller
lol-

still just kidding
:nuts:

this thread needs pics too....

[IHI-RHC7]

Hey bud, I'm installing an Alpine deck with some alpine Type S seperates with a V-power amp under the seat like the factory 90+ cd equipped cars. (this is a 92)
What I need is the wire colors from the deck to the amp, which color goes to which speaker, and so on. I've foud the TEWD pic, and it is no help.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/Wiring/pages/Page_132.gif
The problem I'm having is that the light green wire is missing between the amp and deck, which means that I can't assume that like colors go together, since lg has nothing to correspond to... Any help would be appreciated.
-jake

[estrellainc]

Hey boss!
I am on the road. (bounty hunting).

I should get home early morning. I'll post an answer then.

ps 6000 miles on da supe since the rebuild. your advice was greatly appreciated
;)

[estrellainc]

sorry...
ive been on da run longer than i thought.
are ya tryin to make sense of the connect wires to the original amp from the radio?

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/7489/speakerwirecoloreu0.th.jpg (http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=speakerwirecoloreu0.jpg)
when i looked at the diagram i saw that there is good detail of what the post amplifier wire colors do, etc.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4007/cddeckwiringck9.th.gif (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cddeckwiringck9.gif)
between the cd and deck, the colors are defined but not the function of each separate wire.
i found this in the manual...
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9284/wirecolordr2.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wirecolordr2.jpg)
coupled along with...
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5831/ampwiresrn0.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ampwiresrn0.jpg)
means...
a) the lg wire belongs between the speaker and amplifier and is the #1 wire for the front right speaker. as you said "the light green wire is missing between the amp and deck..."

there should not be on there.

on the other hand, from the diagram i spy...
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5831/ampwiresrn0.jpg
(tryin my best to decipher)
1) P (pink) is powered from the dome fuse
2) V (violet) possible speaker candidate
3) L (blue) goes to the auto antennae motor?
4) SB (???) is also a possible speaker output.
5) W (white) is also a possible speaker output.
6) G (green) is also a possible speaker output.
7) O (orange) connects to the auto antennae relay?
??? hey, 8 is skipped.
9) BR (brown) gets power from the 7.5 amp radio fuse in the box.
10) B-W (black, white) is a possible speaker output.
The last four are also a possible speaker output.
11) GR (gray)
12) Y (yellow)
13) B (black)
14) R (red)
save the pics for ref
hope it’s a start.