no knock sensor!

[Godspeed]

is it possible to run without a ks? cuz my wifes old 87 na auto when i started parting it out the ks wire had been cut and it still ran good. but it unfortunatly broke a rod. but is it possible to run with out one? i know its not a very good idea im just asking.

[Nick M]

is it possible to run without a ks?
the ks wire had been cut and it still ran good
I did a simple search and found the answer.

[Godspeed]

i tried searching for it and couldnt come up with it. maybe i just dont know how to use search right!!lol i'll figure it out

[davidtt87]

lol he took that from ur post lamo

[Godspeed]

lol i knew that but i thought he was being serious haha.

[davidtt87]

lol yes u can run actually quite well without knock sensors and sometimes better than before. if it runs better that means something is wrong and that ur car is pulling timing when it isnt suppose to be. the whole trick to having knock sensors is too run like they're not even there while still having them remain active.

[jetjock]

Good grief....and I thought the same thread in the turbo section was sorry. At least in that one there's some valid info. Shaeff seems to be one of the few with a clue.

[davidtt87]

i love how u bash all our posts and actually if im so wrong than why not post the real way a knock sensor is suppose to work. since obviously saying that when it detects detonation it pulls timing is wrong.

[supramacist]

Ya!

[SupraDerk]

Yeah I wouldn't recommend it especially since we have high compression engines. I don't know about you but I run 93 octane in my car which burns slower than anything less which means more of a chance of detonation. The point in the knock sensor is to detect the knock caused by detonation and then retard timing low enough to get rid of the knock. The knock sensor finds the tiny waves caused by the explosion (detonation) or burning of the gas (what should happen) and turns them into a signal and then either retarding timing or doing nothing based on what it detects. So if you have no knock sensor detecing detonation I'd say you're just setting yourself up for spending a couple hundred bucks farther down the line.

[davidtt87]

i agree with supraderk the only time i got rid of knocksensors was when i didnt care about the motor and just wanted to kill the car so we cud send it to the junkyard. and im soooooooooooo sick of people bashing other people cause of low post count. this is like the 4th or 5th sports car i've either built, modded, or worked heavily with.

[SupraDerk]

^Yeah the NA section has had this BAD, but I think as our section grows and NA tech thinking progresses we'll have less problems.

-Derek

[Godspeed]

post count doesnt mean anything i have near 1000 and still dont know it all or even half.

[jetjock]

93 octane in my car which burns slower than anything less which means more of a chance of detonation.

Now that's exactly the kind of complete nonsense and misinformation I'm talking about.

David: If you're going to come here and disseminate similair misinformation you're going to get called on it. I "obviously" never said timing wan't retarded when knock is detected. Of course it is.You're just wrong about everything else. The question concerned what steps the ecu's diagnostic routine takes when the sensor faults and not what steps the ecu takes if knock is detected during normal operation.

Am I supposed to spell out how it all works again? Wasn't several times by Shaeff and myself enough? In other words piss off. I've forgotten more about this stuff than you'll ever know. How's that for some more love?

[SupraDerk]

I'm sorry, the higher the octane number the slower the gas DOES burn, but the second part of my statement is incorrect, the higher the octane number the more resistance to detonation you should have.

Jetjock: There's no need to be a dick about anything, a simple counter-response to what I had to say would have been fine. You caused me to look it up again and find the answer, but you don't have to be an ass.

[jetjock]

Not being a dick, only using your post as an example of the misinformation that happens here. You should check your facts or state you're not sure....those less informed depend on the forum for accurate information. And yes, I was referring to your statement that higher octane leads to an increased chance of detonation. Nothing could be further from the truth. Octane is (by definition) a measure of resistance to detonation.

At least you learned something. Here's hoping david takes the same opportunity.

[Yellow 13]

my wifes old 87 na auto when i started parting it out the ks wire had been cut and it still ran good. but it unfortunatly broke a rod.

I think you may have gotten the broken rod from not having a knock sensor.

You can run without one, I did on both of my supras but youll have a high chance of causing damage to your engine without it.

[jetjock]

The point many seem to not understand is a knock sensor fault does more than set code 52. When the knock sensor(s) is disconnected or otherwise faulted the ecu will retard timing. It retards timing in a different way than if the sensor was connected and sensing knock but retard timing it does.

The bottom line is anytime you're running around with a code 52 your engine timing is being retarded, not because of knock but because the sensor input faulted. Since the ecu knows knock protection has failed it takes measures to prevent knock from happening in the first place. One of those measures is to retard ignition timing. At the same moment other things also happen in the EFI system, all in an attempt to prevent detonation from occuring in an engine which has lost the ability to detect it. This information comes straight from Toyota.

Do not confuse what the diagnostic software of the ecu does versus what the "normal" software does. Code 52 is diagnostic only and is *not* set if knock occurs. It *is* set if a sensor fault occurs. The point is timing is effected in either case.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

[IJ.]

<mod hat on> Lets keep it civil guys <mod hat off>

[jetjock]

Civil smivil. I'm not gonna let some wet behind ears snot nosed "smaat noob" tell me how the thing works when he obviously doesn't have a clue and can't even form a sentence. You can always ban my ass. Ever seen the ending to the film Platoon? Just do it ;). Good thing I'm on my way to Chernobyl. I need a break from this place...

[IJ.]

I'm NOT going to ban anyone over this and while I understand your frustration 100% about the misinformation being posted I'd rather you educate them if possible than all the confrontation and bad feeling.

"I need a break from this place" pretty well sums it up JJ! :(

You shouldn't be feeling this way it's meant to be enjoyable here.

Derek and David: If you're not sure post that you aren't and ask for clarification instead of posting it as gospel then being put out when someone corrects you.

No One knows it all and you can always learn something if you keep an open mind!

[davidtt87]

i never said ne thing i was saying was gospel, what i said was that when the ecu detects a signal from the knock sensors it will retard timing. also stated that if your car runs better without knock sensors that something is seriously wrong. like i said im not wet behind the ears. ive owned plenty of sports cars. My very first car was a 1985 turbo coupe which has a pretty similar setup as far as the knock sensors go. and as far as having the computer keep the timing retarded when there are no knock sensors i wouldn't know because i've always done the rewire on my supras. I'm always glad to learn something new but so far the only new thing i learned is the supra will prevent detonation by keeping the timing retarded when no knock sensors are present or there is a code. eveything else is just filling or has been repeated a hundread billion times.

[SupraDerk]

I don't mean for any of my stuff to sound like gospel. That's how I was sure it happened so I was trying to help out, like you said though no one knows it all and in this case I was wrong about something. This is exactly why I stopped posting though and I think I'll go back to just reading rather than inputting.

[jdub]

Civil smivil. I'm not gonna let some wet behind ears snot nosed "smaat noob" tell me how the thing works when he obviously doesn't have a clue and can't even form a sentence. You can always ban my ass. Ever seen the ending to the film Platoon? Just do it ;). Good thing I'm on my way to Chernobyl. I need a break from this place...

Hey...don't let the noobs get to ya JJ. Think of it like a guy you're trying to teach acro to...it's gonna take a few times of saying the same thing over & over, then they "get it". Hopefully, everyone here wants to learn...if they don't want to listen, they will just have to figure it out the hard way.

You're posts are dead on about solving the various problems that plague this motor...if it helps, I for one appreciate it.

[Godspeed]

i second that!

[boost fiend]

ok, two sides to this coin.

some people can learn easily and others cant.

teaching someone somthing in a calm mannor and teaching someone somthing with a attitude is another.

it seems to be a issue thats building here. i thought we were here to learn? not get our asses chewed out by others that have owned somewhere around 200 supra's.

thats my .02 and im begining to think this place has become a breading ground for sf rejects.

[jdub]

Keep in mind the written word can come across in a completely different way (attitude wise) than the sender intended. See it all the time in e-mail. That's one of the problems with a forum...the way the post "hits" you. A knowledgeable guy with a lot of experience may come across that way, even though that was not the intent. Goes along with "it ain't bragging if you can really do it."

For me, I try not to let it get personal. I take the information at face value and use it to learn...I can use all the help I can get on this car.

[boost fiend]

i dont let it get personal. just some people have a way of just saying things in a way that always comes off as "im right and your wrong. this is how it works." i came here to learn and im so fed up with some of the people that im just ready to leave.

i grew up a chevy small block guy. bought a supra for a good price and one hell of a steal. came here to learn about it and watched this place fall down hill in just a short amount of time.




maybe i should go back to sbc's. there cheaper to build and last a whole hell of a lot longer!

[supramacist]

Damn......, I would believe anything either one of them said to me. My gas comes from a pump and right now my cars not getting above 89oct. So come on wit it.

[jdub]

i dont let it get personal. just some people have a way of just saying things in a way that always comes off as "im right and your wrong. this is how it works." i came here to learn and im so fed up with some of the people that im just ready to leave.

i grew up a chevy small block guy. bought a supra for a good price and one hell of a steal. came here to learn about it and watched this place fall down hill in just a short amount of time.


maybe i should go back to sbc's. there cheaper to build and last a whole hell of a lot longer!


Nah...don't leave. Opinions are like belly buttons (political correctness :naughty: ) we all have one and yours are as valid as mine or anyone else. And if you go back to sbc's...you won't have the joy of pumping tons of $$$ into your Supra! LOL!

BTW...grew up on Chevy's too...big blocks though. The good old days when you listened to the motor to adjust the carb.

[supramacist]

Or cut of mom's broom stick handle and touched it to your temple to tell wich rod is actually knocking.

[supramacist]

:stickpoke LMAO sorry.

[davidtt87]

lol thats funny, actually unplugging the sparkplugs works very well for rodknock lmao. and yes im still here to learn too, but not from someone who has to be a dick about it.

David: That's enough! <IJ>

Thread closed