Bosch 023 in tank pump

[Mk3Les]

I’m looking to upgrade my fuel system before I start doing some fairly big mods to my car. The plan is to eventually have around 450hp at the wheels. I know a walbro would be enough for what I want but they seem to be a bit hit and miss and I don’t want to take any chances with my fuel supply, so I’ve been looking at Bosch fuel pumps. I’ve read a few posts about guys running 040’s successfully I’m just wondering if anyone has tried a Bosch 0 580 254 023 ?
From what I understand it will flow more than the 040 and that gives me room to grow if I decide that 450hp isn’t enough. Also it’s an in tank pump so fitting it shouldn’t be too hard.
Anyone one with some experience with these pumps please chime in and let me know what you think and any tips for fitting one.
Here’s the ebay link for the pump
Bosch 023 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BOSCH-0-580-254-023-INTANK-PERFORMANCE-FUEL-PUMP-040_W0QQitemZ370224006138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item56331203fa&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A30)

[AndyMac]

I use a bosch intank pump at the moment and have a new 040 that I am putting in this weekend, they are great from my experinces so far, and I am sure that if you want that extra piece of mind they are great!

[nosechunks]

anyone else have any input on this pump?

[AndyMac]

just one other thing, the are FREAKING HUGE!!!!

I am having a hell of a time getting my 040 to fit let alone a 023.

be ready to modify the hanger.

[IJ.]

Same physical sizes Andy.

[nosechunks]

So the 023 intank pump is good? Like 500 rear wheel horse good? Hopefully finishing up soon and looking to run one pump. This may be it hopefully.

[AndyMac]

Same physical sizes Andy.

ah wel, even if its the same size its huge :)

I think it should be fine for that kind of power... Ian?

[Mk3Les]

ah wel, even if its the same size its huge :)

I think it should be fine for that kind of power... Ian?

I guess I should thank you Andy I had a good look at your thread on the Bosch 040 pump your trying to fit. I found just about all the answers I was looking for :) so thanks for the pics and the info.
And yes its a big pump but should be good for 500hp and thats just what I'm looking for ;)

[IJ.]

ah wel, even if its the same size its huge :)

I think it should be fine for that kind of power... Ian?

It'd be on the edge, personally I wouldn't risk it but that's just me I like way more fuel supply than I'll ever need to cover the "just in cases".

[nosechunks]

ah wel, even if its the same size its huge :)

I think it should be fine for that kind of power... Ian?

Well the reason I ask because the walbro 255 is usually good for up to about the 500 mark But at that power it's on the edge iirc. I'm looking for a pump that will handle 500+ but I want a simple fuel system with one pump. I'd run an A1000 but I don't think there self priming and I don't want do sump the tank or go fuel cell either. I just want a serious intank pump that will give me enough fuel to get my power.

IJ could you recommend a pump that will handle the power? Maybe the 044? The Aeromotive A1000 is said to be submersable. Could I mount that intank utilizing some type of pre screen?

[IJ.]

A1000 will work but good luck getting it into a stock tank.

044 will do it but as I said I prefer to go at least 2x on the fuel system, I'm sure there are plenty of people making 500 on a single 044.

[nosechunks]

Would it be that hard to fit into the tank? Why would I use as a prefilter?

[IJ.]

If you could get it in the hole one of these would work>>

http://www.jayracing.com/images/products/BFP-PF1.jpg

[AndyMac]

hey thats cool!

makes the 044 an intank pump!

I will hopefully be finishing my 040 install this weekend so I will be sure to share pictures.

[nosechunks]

What would you recommend IJ? A dual pump setup? Could I use the A1000 as external with the stock intank or would the stock intank restrict the a1000?

[IJ.]

hey thats cool!

makes the 044 an intank pump!

I will hopefully be finishing my 040 install this weekend so I will be sure to share pictures.
cool!


What would you recommend IJ? A dual pump setup? Could I use the A1000 as external with the stock intank or would the stock intank restrict the a1000?
Well it can only flow as much as the point of greatest restriction unless you run some stupid high pressures so for me the in series installs don't make a lot of sense.

Dual in tank with pump #2 being boost activated makes a whole lot of sense.

[nosechunks]

So twin walbro is best option? What about the check valves? Or the unknowing failure possibilities? I have ideas for a warning system but I would still rather run a single pump for simplicity. Would there be any problems running the 2 walbros full time?

[IJ.]

I run a pair of aeromotive Tsunami's with 2x -6 lines from the pumps to the rails, I also use a pair of speedflow check valves.

This way is a pump fails the other can get you home no probs at all, it also allows me to PWM both pumps so they're quiet and to boost activate pump #2.

I wouldn't run 2 pumps all the time as you're just heat soaking the fuel in the tank by circulating it through the rail and engine bay.

[nosechunks]

You wouldn't happen to know the maximum amperage a stinger can output would you? It has PWM outputs but i dont know if it could handle the amperage of a big pump.

As i was researching pumps i ran into this. The part about the 98-04 mustangs in this web page: http://www.fuel-pumps.net/fuelpumpsfaq7.html#9 Makes me wonder if PWM on a walbro is safe? i would assume not?

So if thats true then i guess the only way to could run dual walbros is to either run both full time or have one on full time and the other turn on at a set boost pressure. But im afraid of that becoming a tuning nightmare.

Would the bosch 023 or 040 intank pumps be safe to PWM?

[IJ.]

Can't think of an ECU that will PWM a pump direct you'll need a solid state relay to do it Chunks.

If you have a good quality AFPR it shouldn't be a tuning nightmare at all.

[nosechunks]

any place in particular to get a solid state relay? i could only find this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLA-H41773001/

[IJ.]

Nice haven't seen/used those before this is what I run> (http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4086&keywords=solid+state+relay&form=KEYWORD)

[nosechunks]

I see, well that would be the one to go with i guess, being rated at 100 amps (continuous?)

Found a good pdf on bosch pumps and flowrates: http://www.lucasinjection.com/_borders/fuelpumps.pdf

Looks like the 413 pump (last on list) is even bigger then the 044 flowing the same 200l/h but at 8 bar pressure.

Hmmm... according to this graph (http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/pics/hp255lph.jpg) of a walbro 255 high pressure pump, at 5 bar flows between 45 and 55 gph. The Bosch 044 flows 52.84gph at 5 baraccording to the pdf, Does this mean a walbro flows as much as a bosch 044? I read on that website posted that those figures are using a different liquid then gasoline but still makes me wonder.

[IJ.]

Check flow at higher pressures that's where the Bosch shines and the Walbro's fall on their faces.

[nosechunks]

Really considering making an a1000 fit in tank with that sock adaptor, but is the 18x1.5 connection on the sock too small for the -10an inlet on the a1000?

When you say good luck getting it to fit do you mean threw the opening? or that it would be too long to sit vertically from top to bottom of tank? maybe both? or that attaching it to the hanger would be near impossible? or wont fit in stock baffle?

Sucks theres no intermediate solution. its either sump and a1000 good for 1000hp or In tank good for around 500. :(