XTD Clutch scam!

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,692
Likes
0
Location
Pomona, CA
#1
Please skip ahead to post #163 for updated information.

We are having clutches made for us by Action Clutch. They make us an upgraded pressure plate that is 40% heavier spring pressure then stock. Recently, someone brought to my attention the they could buy the "same thing" on Ebay for over $200 less. I was REALLY supprised to hear that, because we don't have a lot of margin on ours, and I was wondering if we were just paying way too much, or if it was too good to be true. Since XTD is only about a 45 minute drive from the shop, I went there in person to check it out. He seems to do a lot of business on Ebay, there were about 20 orders boxed up to go out, and since many of them were not taped up, I noticed that he had more then a few 7m-gte clutches to be shipped. At the bottom of a huge stack of Aisin (oem toyota) boxes, I saw a few Action clutch boxes. That was strange, because Action said the do not sell anything to this guy, and they were wondering why he had their boxes in his business. I found out why!

I bought one of his pressure plates to take to Action to test, and to take pics compared to stock. THE XTD PRESSURE PLATE IS A BONE STOCK PRESSURE PLATE, SPRAY PAINTED RED. We had Action put it on their pressure test machine that tests the clamp pressure, and also a stock Aisin Toyota pressure plate. The XTD clutch was actually 100ft/lbs LESS then the other stock unit we tested. His Ebay auction clearly states the XTD pressure plate is "35% thicker heavy duty" spring in it. I measured the XTD and stock springs, they are exactly the same thickness. He is clearly lying, and fooling people into thinking the XTD clutch will handle 35% more, when in fact it is stock. If you remove the XTD sticker, you will see the stock green paint mark underneath :biglaugh: If they were heat treated to increase the spring pressure, that paint would most likely have burned off, and the spring would be discolored.

Also, I looked closely at the XTD 6 puck disk. It looks like a cheap copy of the Action one. If you look at the pics in his Ebay auction at the top it is an ACTION CLUTCH KIT IN THE PICS. The one he actually ships is in the pics at the bottom. Action clutch does use a stock Aisin outer clutch cover, but the rivets are drilled out, and then the spring is upgraded and the clutch is reassembled. Other companies also do this, because Aisin is the only manufacturer of this model clutch.

Here is a link to his auction on Ebay. If you want to be overcharged for a stock pp with cheap copy 6 puck, that's up to you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XTD-...tegoryZ33730QQihZ009QQitemZ190106058632QQrdZ1
Notice the first pic on his Ebay auction is an Action Clutch pp with an XTD sticker on it. You can tell because the spring is dark black, and the pp was disassembled before painting. You can see around the inside edge at the top.

Here's what he is actually shipping:



Compared to a stock pp:


The real Action upgraded clutch has a black spring and is painted while it is disassembled. It has a 40% higher pressure spring then stock.


The real Action 6 puck has a slightly lighter color on the pucks, and has little slots in the center of each puck.


I really don't have a problem with Ebay, or Chinese made parts, what I do have a BIG problem with is people on Ebay misrepresenting the specs and performance of their parts.

Please skip ahead to post #163 for updated information.
 
Last edited:

kylefoto

I am not ASIAN!
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
1,674
Likes
0
Location
Lynnwood, WA
#2
Well.
Looks like it's a good thing my clutch got stolen awhile back.
I had a bought an XTD.
lol.
Thanks for the info Aaron!
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
15,025
Likes
7
Location
Roll Tide
#3
How much torque is this clutch and pp suppose to handle? I may go to the track this weekend, but I want a spare clutch to replace my burnt one if I tear it up. I'm hoping not to tear it up, but you never know.
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,692
Likes
0
Location
Pomona, CA
#4
We did some calculations on it and it should be able to handle at least 550ft/lbs with a 6 puck.
 

Mr.PFloyd

I am the Super Devil
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
3,964
Likes
0
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
#5
suprahero said:
How much torque is this clutch and pp suppose to handle? I may go to the track this weekend, but I want a spare clutch to replace my burnt one if I tear it up. I'm hoping not to tear it up, but you never know.
you have a 1jz don't you bro?














































:rofl:
 

AF1JZ

Almost civilian status...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,109
Likes
0
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
#6
:rant2: Damnit. And to think, I just pulled my tranny off to install the ARP flywheel bolts that I bought from you. I do not want to pull the tranny back off again :cry: . Thanks for letting us know that though.

Honestly Aaron, how long do you think this clutch will last mostly DD and some fun with a bpu 1jz, 935 lightweight flywheel, and jawsgear steel driveshaft?
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
15,025
Likes
7
Location
Roll Tide
#7
CryoSlash said:
you have a 1jz don't you bro?


:rofl:
Did you say something funny?............................:rolleyes: .................:biglaugh:

The one I've got is only good for 400rwt, but I think the drag radials hurt the clutch more than anything. I know the 550 will be way more than enough for my little biddy cute 1jz...................:biglaugh:

Do I need to be seated to hear the price? Just kidding. I know you guys are as fair as they come, but I'm seated anyways...............;)
 

Tim

regular member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
272
Likes
0
Location
CA
#8
Damn thats crazy Aaron! It makes me think, because I have an XTD in my 240sx with the 6 puck disk and it really feels like it doesn't grab that hard at all. I think I got ripped off.
 

935motorsports

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
2,660
Likes
0
Location
San Diego, CA
#10
That sucks, but it is kind of funny at the same time.

Our stock pressure plate plus 6 puck combo could have been a brand the whole time!!!

Unfortunately this combo does not stand up to any kind of abuse.
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,692
Likes
0
Location
Pomona, CA
#11
935motorsports said:
That sucks, but it is kind of funny at the same time.

Our stock pressure plate plus 6 puck combo could have been a brand the whole time!!!

Unfortunately this combo does not stand up to any kind of abuse.
:biglaugh: Yeah, the stock pp with 6 puck just seems to cause accellerated pp and flywheel wear, and only handle slightly more hp then stock.
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,692
Likes
0
Location
Pomona, CA
#13
Tim said:
Damn thats crazy Aaron! It makes me think, because I have an XTD in my 240sx with the 6 puck disk and it really feels like it doesn't grab that hard at all. I think I got ripped off.
The pressure plates he is selling are stock, so the quality is not bad, but we all know if you put a stock pp on a car with a lot more hp then it's going to slip and eventually fail. What really sucks is that a clutch job is not easy, and it's not like you can just easily unbolt and return it.
 

OneJSupra

I'm a sleeper ...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
900
Likes
0
Location
Supraland
#14
bigaaron said:
The pressure plates he is selling are stock, so the quality is not bad, but we all know if you put a stock pp on a car with a lot more hp then it's going to slip and eventually fail. What really sucks is that a clutch job is not easy, and it's not like you can just easily unbolt and return it.
Having said that what is the stock clutch system capable of. I am on stock twins with BPU, I have the XTD stage 3 and so far it hasn't given me any signs of problems after 5k miles of dd. It does feel like a stock clutch but with a bit more bite. I do plan on replacing the clutch when I go single with more holding power when the time comes. But good investigation on your part and very informative.
 

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
6,391
Likes
2
Location
Hot and Humid, KY
#15
I so wish I had know about this MONTHS ago! I bought mine almost a year ago, glad it's no installed. Well, looks like I'll be selling mine and buying yours Aaron ;).
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
4,692
Likes
0
Location
Pomona, CA
#16
I do want to make it clear that the purpose of this thread is to keep people from getting shafted by XTD, rather then to sell our clutch kit. The reason I talked about our kit is because the XTD is an obvious rip-off of it. If you do need a upgraded clutch, we would be happy to sell you one, but I don't want people to think that this is some marketing gimmic we thought up.
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
15,025
Likes
7
Location
Roll Tide
#17
bigaaron said:
, but I don't want people to think that this is some marketing gimmic we thought up.
We would never give you guys that much credit...................:evil2:

You knows I's just be kidding.
 

Supracentral

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
10,541
Likes
2
#18
See folks, this is why we are selective about who we allow here as a vendor. We don't charge vendors for their spot here, but we feel they earn their keep in other ways.

Aaron is displaying the kind of integrity and involvement that makes him a credit to the Supra community.

Aaron, thanks for bringing attention to this.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
4,245
Likes
0
Location
Alachua, FL
#19
Aaron, awesome job catching that.

Now I do want to say, I snagged an XTD clutch set + 12 lbs flywheel off ebay, for $440 shipped. Why? Because my buddy down south of me has been running a dyno verified 387rwhp on a 57 trim CT26 for about 8 months on one of these. We pulled it 3 weeks ago, due to what he called 'a chattering problem' (which turned out to be the T/O bearing going bad) and the disc has stood up very well to multiple hard launches here @ Gainesville raceway (and on the street)

Not arguing, by any means - just tossing out some more experience with the XTD clutch. If you're pushing over 450 lbs/ft of torque, I'd probably say look elsewhere.
 

drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
3,061
Likes
0
Location
the motor city
#21
not surprising @ all. the real test would be to get a PP from everyone- ACT, SPEC, etc. and measure them. it's a safe bet XTD aren't the only ones doing that...
 

tissimo

Stock is boring :(
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
4,247
Likes
7
Location
Melbourne, FL
#22
I have a used spec I could send to get tested.. its probably weak though, its been rode hard and put up wet..

Some poeple have said the stock pp with a 6puck can handle some decent power.. probably not heavy drag racing or anything, but will hold power on the street..
 

MassSupra89

Almost done.
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
1,707
Likes
0
Location
MA
#26
Yea, how would I get my money back for this useless clutch and flywheel sitting on my floor?

I'm looking for beyond 500rwtq, and it sounds like this things barely gonna get me to 400.

I'll probably be contacting you about your clutches Aaron but it looks like I gotta get rid of this XTD piece of crap first. Please tell me you slapped this guy or something when you went to his place of "business".:nono:
 

Kevin S. OG

SF what a waste of supras
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,382
Likes
0
Location
SoCal
#29
Wow paying an extra buck for a painted oem clutch why didnt anyone catch this sooner:3d_frown:

Thank you arron for looking out for the crew.
 

AZN MK3

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
341
Likes
0
Location
Now in the U.S.
#31
DAMN i wished i knew that now since i have the clutch already here... now i dont know what im goin to do.... thanks bigaaron...
 

AF1JZ

Almost civilian status...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,109
Likes
0
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
#32
Here's a little bit about the clutch that I've experienced so far. It's the "stage 3" one. It chatters like a Sombitch!!! Don't get me wrong, this clutch really grabs the gears. But, who knows how long it will last. Another thing that I have noticed about it is the way the clutch pedal feels when letting it out. Its when I'm on an incline when coming on base when they check ID's, it starts feeling like it's vibrating my foot and shakes the shit out of my car.

I'm going to keep it in there until it goes. I hope to have the money to buy the upgraded PP and stock clutch that Aaron recommended before this one goes. I just absolutely hate the clutch chatter. It's the 6-puck disk BTW. I'm so disappointed in myself for going for the "cheaper" option on the clutch. I guess I've learned my lesson and hopefully everyone else won't make that mistake after reading this thread.


Aaron: How much was the upgraded PP and stock clutch disk? Do you also have any disk that is better than stock that won't chatter?
 

AF1JZ

Almost civilian status...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,109
Likes
0
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
#35
Aaron, I'm thinking about doing a Better Business Bureau to get my $280 back after I buy your clutch kit and take the old one off. Is there anyway you can provide me written proof (your testing results) that this is a scam? I'd really appreciate it.

EDIT: My previous post showed the w58 pressure plate. My mistake. Post was deleted
 
Last edited:

werewolves182

is without a supra :(
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
436
Likes
0
Location
Crownsville, MD
#36
Thats not even an R154 pressure plate. Notice the diaphragm is pointed out which means its a push type I believe. IIRC ours is a pull type. I could have gotten that backwards though. Either way its opposite of the R154. It looks like a honda PP.
 

AF1JZ

Almost civilian status...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,109
Likes
0
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
#38
My bad guys, it was for the w58. I deleted the post. I'm still going to try the BBB to get my money back after I buy a driftmotion clutch kit.
 

AF1JZ

Almost civilian status...
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,109
Likes
0
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
#40
werewolves182 said:
I wasnt blaming you in my post. I just thought the XTD guys were idiots.
I know that. Don't sweat it. I'm just as much of an idiot for buying one of their shit clutches.