Working on a new clutch option for r154

Zazzn

OLD school
Authorized Seller
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
1,056
Likes
15
Location
Toronto / San Francisco
#1
Hi All,

Just wanted to poll what’s left of the mk3 community.

I’m working on creating a few new products. One of them is a twin disk r154 clutch with a good movement alteration kit which is not a pos like the spec clutch. I’m aiming for the clutch to be about the price of a premium single single disk option when you purchase a flywheel. Price range a good 300-400 than the next alternative. By having a twin disc we won’t need super heavy pressure plates and the whole assembly comes with a flywheel as well as most twins do. Meaning this would be cheaper than a single ACT or Southbend.

I expect the clutch to hold more than wheel tq than an r154 is good for. Just initial interest as my R&D samples are being made.

I’m going to seek approval for a group buy eventually
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,618
Likes
142
Location
MKE, WI
#2
I may be interested depending on additional details / specs.

Are you working with clutch masters?
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,618
Likes
142
Location
MKE, WI
#3
Also this is going to be mated to a steel flywheel correct?
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
1,989
Likes
37
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
#4
I love the idea, but my clutch is pretty new so I wouldn't need one anytime soon.

Would it be like a Clutchmaster or Quartermaster setup? It would be nice to be able to use standard stocked parts if you have to rebuild it vs totally custom.
 

GC89

BoostRodeo
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,037
Likes
22
Location
Spokane, WA
#7
7M, JZ or both? I have been dragging my heals on ordering a OS Giken tripple or quad as my current twin is not too happy. Would consider this depending on price and tq rating. Are you planning on a movement alteration kit or a hydraulic release bearing?
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
4,043
Likes
67
Location
Arizona
#8
I'm in the market for a quiet and stock-like twin disc for my R154. My main criteria is smooth engagement and minimal or no rattling with clutch pedal depressed. Most the twin discs I've heard have sounded awful in parking lots. That sort of noise and chatter would be a complete non-starter for me.
 

Zazzn

OLD school
Authorized Seller
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
1,056
Likes
15
Location
Toronto / San Francisco
#9
Well, I can see people are looking for all their preferences.

I'm going to say there are a billion options already available, what I'm trying to do is bring a twin / triple to the market at the price just above a single setup. It's going to use a chrome-moly flywheel multi discs are always going to make noise, i'll have to see how much when my samples arrive. Weight will be similar to OS giken with a chrome moly flywheel, billet cover. Realistically, if you care about weight Tilton quartermasters are probably what you want.

Also not working with clutch masters.
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,618
Likes
142
Location
MKE, WI
#10
As GC89 asked, what engine are you making this to?

Staying tuned to hear what the results are.
 

GC89

BoostRodeo
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,037
Likes
22
Location
Spokane, WA
#11
I'm in the market for a quiet and stock-like twin disc for my R154. My main criteria is smooth engagement and minimal or no rattling with clutch pedal depressed. Most the twin discs I've heard have sounded awful in parking lots. That sort of noise and chatter would be a complete non-starter for me.
Some are better or worse but I have personally never seen a multi plate clutch that did not make noise. Even basket design single discs exhibit this, its just part of the design and the cost of obtaining more grip without absorbent pressure plate tension rates.
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
4,043
Likes
67
Location
Arizona
#13
Some are better or worse but I have personally never seen a multi plate clutch that did not make noise. Even basket design single discs exhibit this, its just part of the design and the cost of obtaining more grip without absorbent pressure plate tension rates.
I seem to get varying answers from people on this. Some say a properly tensioned ,ulti-disc assembly will have very minimal chatter. Others, (like here) say it's always noisy as shit and that's life.

I don't see why the rattling clatter is necessary, but I guess I don't know exactly how that assembly behaves in motion. I'll keep dreaming about a quiet and respectable multi-disc clutch though, dammit! Haha.
 

GC89

BoostRodeo
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,037
Likes
22
Location
Spokane, WA
#14
I seem to get varying answers from people on this. Some say a properly tensioned ,ulti-disc assembly will have very minimal chatter. Others, (like here) say it's always noisy as shit and that's life.

I don't see why the rattling clatter is necessary, but I guess I don't know exactly how that assembly behaves in motion. I'll keep dreaming about a quiet and respectable multi-disc clutch though, dammit! Haha.

Without chatter, definitely achievable, essentially silent like a sprung single disc, I don't think it is possible. To me when someone talks about chatter they are referring to engagement not noise. A multidisk can be very smooth depending on disk materials and the movement design of the clutch.

The issue with noise is you have significantly more parts in a multidisk. In a single disk you have a fly wheel which is fixed, a pressure plate which is fixed to the flywheel and the disk in between. Even when the clutch is pressed and unloaded the disk is contacting both surfaces, even if it weren't and it were able to vibrate freely the friction materials would be what is contacting the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces.

In a multidisk you have the flywheel and pressure plate fixed together still but connected by the basket rather than directly bolted together. The friction disks commonly are separate from the hub that slides on to the input shaft. This is one point of free movement when unloaded. Then you have a steel friction plate between each pair of disks which is also hubbed and locked in by the basket. Theses are two more points of intermittent contact when unloaded. All these parts vibrate when the clutch is pressed and everything is unloaded, its just the nature of the design. Some are noisier some are less noticeable but I have yet to work with one that doesn't suffer from this.
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,618
Likes
142
Location
MKE, WI
#16
2 of the key components to reduce chatter on twin plate clutches.
-Marcel Plates
-Orgainic full faced clutches

Especially without Marcel Plates, expect chatter and poor drive-ability on the street.
Moving toward pucked clutches or non full faced clutch designs will also increase chatter.