Ways to cure 7M oiling issues

starscream5000

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Do you think the 200K squirter causes that much oil loss to the bearings? Granted I'm sure an engine with that many miles on it may have other issues with oiling too, but using those in a rebuild would unadvisable?
 

jdub

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^^^ Yep!

At higher rpm (especially with a shimmed pump relief valve), the psi produced (40 psi +) is more than adequate for the bearings...the squirters have little impact. It's at low rpm/psi that can be the problem...if the squirters open up too soon, it will drop pressure/flow to the bearings. That is not a good thing. ;)
 

jdub

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Just make sure which crank you have before you buy ;)
 

arz

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I installed one on mine. The jury is still out. I thought I might notice something but it is so barely imperceptible that I was kind of surprised that I didnt notice anything just yet.

It could be that I made so many changes that I dont know if I could attribute any one change to just one thing. I went from a completely stock block to Forged Pistons and Rods, New oil squirter check valves, completely balanced assembly, added an oil pump shim, My oil Pump supply line mod, and a crank scrapper and a baffled oil pan, with several iterations of oil filter adapters and cooler lines and bypass for the oil cooler.

It definitely is not a "BOLT ON" part. You need to fit it and then you need to make sure you get it in exactly the same place during final installation, and then you need to make the pieces that go between the left and right sides of the Crank scrapper, basically you shim your oil pan about .040 inches away from the bottom of the block and the crank scrapper guy expects you to fill that gap (the front and back of the block "the curved part" that bolts to the aluminum front and rear covers) with Silicone, I didnt want to trust just Silicone so a made a piece of gasket that goes in exactly that same place and its already leaking with less than 1500 miles of use. I will probably pop it off and make an aluminum shim to do the same job next time I have the pan off.

I have been meaning to do a build thread on the Z and the Supra I have tons of photos that show what I did and would help to understand what is involved when installing a crank scrapper.
 

IJ.

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I don't have mine anymore as when I briefly ran the 6M crank it was the wrong one so I pulled it and sold it and with my modded 7M crank I decided to not buy another.

The GroupA pan has louvres that do the job for me the scraper was like a Belt and Braces.
 

fast 7m

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Re: ways to cure 7m oiling issues.

[what is the difference between 5m oil pum Vs 7m oil pump



QUOTE=spoolint78]did the same thing with my oilpan as well

well worth it.

Good info in this thread

[/QUOTE]
 

arz

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^^^Did you get my PM?^^^

Please find the post where someone said that the 5M pump is better. Use the "Quote" button in the bottom right of that post then edit the rest of his post (if its a big one) so that we can see what you are talking about.

Also please clean up your first post, so it dosent look like you posted that photo. Check your PM's I described in detail how to fix it.
 

Supraholics

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Great info everyone.

I agree with most of your findings. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if I missed it, but I haven't seen this noted on this thread.

In my testing I discovered that there is a flaw in the oil pump no one has covered here yet. I could be wrong about this as it has not been tested.

As you can see in the image below, the oil pump has a second guide at the very top. This guide is not really needed, unless maybe at really high RPMs. This is lubricated by the pump, thus loosing pressure. If this hole is sealed, it should increase oil pressure without any additional mods. (have in mind this is under the assumption the rest of the oil system is functioning as designed. No worn out parts).

There's a negative part about this. It looks like this oil lubricates the guide and the pinion, but this can possibly be fix with grease for initial lubrication, followed by lubrication from the oil floating around inside the block. Another fix maybe to remove the guide seat. We'll see.

 

arz

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Removing the guide would put the oil pump shaft in single shear. I wouldnt recommend it. I dont think I would consider this a problem, since the end fits into the guide by design, how much oil couild possibly be lost. Also how do we know the Oil pump drive gear could live with the lubrication of what is splashing around alone. This might be required to lube that gear.
 
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IJ.

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MKIII-DRIFTKING said:
Great info everyone.

I agree with most of your findings. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if I missed it, but I haven't seen this noted on this thread.

In my testing I discovered that there is a flaw in the oil pump no one has covered here yet. I could be wrong about this as it has not been tested.

As you can see in the image below, the oil pump has a second guide at the very top. This guide is not really needed, unless maybe at really high RPMs. This is lubricated by the pump, thus loosing pressure. If this hole is sealed, it should increase oil pressure without any additional mods. (have in mind this is under the assumption the rest of the oil system is functioning as designed. No worn out parts).

There's a negative part about this. It looks like this oil lubricates the guide and the pinion, but this can possibly be fix with grease for initial lubrication, followed by lubrication from the oil floating around inside the block. Another fix maybe to remove the guide seat. We'll see.


Pump failure in hours using the above advice.......
 

IJ.

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Helical gears by nature try to seperate while running the pilot is there to prevent this, remove the pilot all the load goes into the pump body which has no bearing or bush.

Eventually it'll wear the then the pump gears will seperate under Oil pressure while they're pumping allowing them to rub the housing sides which will increase clearance and pressure will drop so on and so on until it fails or you get Rod Knock....

Why did you want to do this anyway?
(it's a 3mm bleed and from memory the bush is blind so the flow would only be past the sides of the pilot)
 

IJ.

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Dunno that it's a case of "knowing" it's more a case of looking at how something has been engineered and why it's been done that way, there's usually a good reason for things as parts left out would reduce costs for Toyota so if it wasn't needed they wouldn't put it in....

Say for instance it costs them $5 per car to install a Charcoal Cannister add that up over ALL of the A70's built and you'll see how much could have been saved.

Along comes Cletus Street racer and for no better reason than "Ummm it looks ugly" he decides to start deleting parts with NFI what they actually do and then can't understand why his car won't run right.

I'm the last person that would say DON'T mod your car as there's very very little left on my car that's original but I would say at least get a clue before you start and don't do it cos Billy Joe Bubba Dumb Fuck did it and his car is running great ;)
 

mk3forme

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I can chime into the reduce cost thing. I know this cause I work for toyota. Cost reduction is a daily expectation. If you can think of an idea to reduce cost, the Co. will pay you for your idea.
 

arz

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I worked fro GM for 4 years, I saved money on several different programs, $.05 on a water pump casting, collaborated on an exhaust manifold and heat shield design, Supercharger intake manifold design, 3.8 liter fresh air inlet, and tons of other little things like that. GM and my bosses were all excited about these changes. Our department got an award every time we got numbers back from the Financial dept. Sometimes there was a party for the whole engineering department. It was a huge deal to save 5 cents on a part that they are going to make 4 million of.

When I started working at McDonnell Douglas I was tasked with redesigning the trailing edge of the Apache AH-64 longbow. There was a com (communications) port on the wing tip that was a 5 piece aluminum structure assembly that had to be riveted together. I came up with a design that made it easier to make, lighter, stronger, out of one piece, and a lot less (I don't know how much) expensive.

At GM this would have gone through a whole army of comities then, we would get approvals for the go ahead.

At Boeing (then McDonnell Douglas) I suggested the idea, my boss said, (extremely matter of fact, like) "Sure go ahead." I said "I don't need to get any approval?" he said "Uhhh, check with stress..." I did, it was fine and there was no more fan fare than that. A few months later my new design was on every Apache from there on out.

I was shocked at the difference in attitude between a company that made 4 million of one part to go in several different model year vehicles V.S. a company that made 1000 helicopters over a 20 year period.
 

IJ.

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LOL always amazes me when I see parts on our cars being deleted "cos they're not needed and don't affect anything" like Toyota put them there just for fun and not that even a simple part can run into $millions$ over a production run and if they could build the car without it they would..... :nono:
 

Supraholics

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Hey IJ, no need to start a rant because of my post. I never said this was absolutely the thing to do. Just an idea. I'm not BY FAR a mechanic and I've always said this openly. This is just a hobby for me and I'm learning everyday. I thought I would share my findings, good or not, with the members and see what they have to say.

Obviously you have something against me from what I've gather during my membership on Supramania. Why? I don't know. I guess you ARE a Grumpy Old Man...

Next time, don't waste so many words (people this and people that) and just tell me I've inconvenienced you with my lack of knowledge.

P.S - I decided not to insert any characters or icons to this post. You can read it and interpret it as you will.
 

bwest

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I think Ian had a valid point at it wasn't directed completely (or solely) towards you. Its more of a thought process thing (or lack there of) that runs rampent in the modifying community. Doesn't matter if its mkiii's, mkiv's (ask the same dumbshit ?'s on SF 'which exhaust is better' 'can I run 20psi on stock 150k twins' etc), rustangs, honduhs, whatever. Don't take it so personal.

Trying to understand why something is how it is, is the first step to the question of can I/ should I modify it.
 

IJ.

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DK: If I meant to address YOU I would have......

I was generalising based on past experience, you asked me to "elaborate" I did and that's where me speaking directly to you or about you ended.

I didn't realise I was ranting I actually took the time to reply and asked why you thought it a good idea (which you didn't answer)
 

Supraholics

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First, I would like to apologize to the guys for taking this into OT mode...

bwest - I agree it wasn't completely directed to me, but it started, and took a twisted turn because of me. When someone starts complaining about a certain idea or attitude just after someone has made a relevant comment on the subject matter, is usually directed to that person. We all lack knowledge of something and we were all beginners at one point or another.

IJ - Here's your answer.

Information was presented. Opinion was presented. It was made clear in my first post, it was an idea and had not been tested. The idea was to seal the hole, not remove the pilot. Ideas and/or comments can be misinterpreted left and right all day. What one cannot see behind the computer screen is the intention of the person posting. Is this person writing for ego gratification? Is this person writing to genuinely help another? I always choose the later.

I felt that it would be in our best interests if I took a Martian attitude to this topic and have done so as best I can; Jupiter would have been ineffective. The information I presented, funded entirely by an idea (as stated), would likely help someone analyze what's being discussed more, accept the idea or discard it. My opinion, or anyone's for that matter, should not sway one's attitude toward a decision. Opinion is merely a secretion of emotion and any effect it has on another is an obstacle in that person's path. It is tests & experience that matters [yet how does one know if the tests or experience have been fabricated? Well, that is where intelligence(or common sense as true intelligence is known by most) comes into play]. If you are driving along and get a flat, naturally, you are going to be pissed off. However, supposing that you missed that nail by a 1* change of wheel direction, would this not be better than if you had crashed into a minivan with a family of 4 and a dog had you not have gotten a flat? Therein contains the secret of the trickster.

Thank you for the information and examples you've shared. Now, may I say maybe the next time you reply to one of my posts, you might want to analyze it and reply with a statement that elaborates on your thoughts instead of immediately labeling it as a complete failure.

Glad we all got that cleared up . And for the benefit of all, this will be my last post on this topic. Good riddance you say? Perhaps, but heed not my words lightly!
 

IJ.

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Dude if I had a problem with you you'd know about it.....

You're overthinking things here to a power of 10.

I'm NOT going to analyse every single post I read here I'm sorry I'm not a young man I don't have that many years left.

Your idea was a complete failure and my elaboration pointed out why I don't see any reason to sugar coat things.
 

7M-fanatic

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Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.
 

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tig321

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Sheesh, talk about wasting words. MKIII Driftking NONE of what IJ was talking about was directed at you, my friend. You are neither "Cletus Street Racer" Nor "Billy Joe Bubba Dumb fuck". I'm sure he was speaking more about the people who want to "clean up the engine bay" and such by removing all the "ugly" parts such as the charcoal canister he refered to,(it's obviously a peeve of his) so please just relax.

Sorry about the thread william.

Fanatic, you may want to consider an accusump. I have also made some mods to sump and decided its just damn good insurance. I'm going to give this one way screen a try also #20-906
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/windage_trays/windage_trays.html#to
p
 

williamb82

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7M-fanatic said:
Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.
dude, thats nice. same pan i need for my mkii. how much oil do each of thos kickouts add?
 

927mgtepat

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7M-fanatic said:
Here is my extended oil pan for the Cressida 7M.
The extensions are off the shelf from www.speedwaymotors.com.
The scraper is of my own design.
As is the swing baffle.
Not shown in the picture are extra, full length scavenging scrapers on the right side of the pan, to increase oil drain back, and drain channels behind them to allow oil from the main scraper a direct path to the sump.

This is going on a NA camed 7M that will be turning 8000+ RPM, so oil control was very important.
But it turned out so nice, I will also be putting one on my forced induction 7M.
Great Info. I was trying to find oil pan extensions like that. Ill haft to pick some up.
 

blk91

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I Read the first section of this thread and it mentioned replacing the the oil cooler to increase pressure, It said that there is a Thermostat that controls the coolers use, Is it required for the system to work correctly and how would i go about replacing it, I planed on doing that and a filter relocation kit to make things a little bit more oily.
 

blk91

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Thanks, Is there any danger in running a full flow coolers with out T stat?