torque plate

JISupra88

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#2
ok well finding an affordable torque plate or a machine shop with one seems like a low probability situation.

will i be ok doing machine work without one? i feel a lot of built engines have been machined without one but thats just me.
im thinking forged bottom end for a 7mgte.

is hot honing a typical thing done nowadays when machine work is done??
 

plaaya69

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#3
It might be worth calling around a few machine shops and asking if they can get a hold of a torque plate for the 7m motor as some may have connections. Suprastore used to have one I believe and maybe Sound Performance or Real St Performance may point you in a right direction since they both build 7m motors. Just a idea.
 

JISupra88

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#4
^^
Yea i contacted Sound Performance since they're local (45 min drive) and they pointed me towards a machine shop called Apex Race Engineering(i think thats the name) in Bensenville Illinois, due to Sound Performance not being a machine shop(what they said).

Have not gotten a response from Apex. I'll try calling them eventually.

I guess it'd wouldn't hurt to call any machine shop to see if they can get hands on one. I just figured if Sound Performance couldn't get it done, most other shops wouldn't be able to either.
 

plaaya69

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#5
One other local person here in the Chicago area that may help you is the user "1-2clutch-u". I believe he said he was making one from scratch when he was doing his 7m build. He may or may not have one but I would give that a try.

Also there is other sellers on ebay that sell other engine torque plates and they might be able to make you one but I am sure it is not going to be cheap.
 

eman365

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#6
Were you able to find a Torque Plate? So far my recent efforts have only produced a line on a new one for $500. Still looking myself.
 

AbsoluteSpeed

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#7
I believe a company called sleeper designs makes a torque plate for the 7M but it is probably not cheap.

Idealy you would want to use a torque plate when machining. Ensuring you have perfectly round cylinders. It isn't always necessary but it depends on your power goals for the engine.

I think I remember reading that you also want to bolt on and properly torque the timing belt tensioner as it can cause slight deformation on cylinder number one.
 

suprarx7nut

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#10
This seems like a really cheap piece to make. I have a spare head (two actually if you count the one I cross-sectioned). Wouldn't it be as simple as designing the CAD and waterjetting it out of steel or aluminum?

I design titanium parts for waterjet all the time for my side business. Perhaps I should make 7M torque plates a part of my business if they can charge $1000 for one. Probably costs $150 to make.
 

Piratetip

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#11
Good idea
I am also debating making my own.

Let me know if you make one, I will buy from you. Save me the time of machining my own.
 

suprarx7nut

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#13
For the torque plate, I think the following is all that matters. Can anyone remind me of any other features needed?

  1. Head bolt holes, obviously.
  2. Cylinder holes, sized to .040" over to accomodate the largest likely bore?
  3. Overall size matched to the footprint of the head
For thickness, I see a 2J plate done in 2" 6061 so perhaps that's a good thickness and material.

Anything else I need to keep in mind?
 

Piratetip

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#14
- Accurate dowel pin holes to locate it properly.
- I would think they are machined very flat on the bottom side in contact with the block.
- Depending on the material you use to make it I would use steel inserts for an aluminum plate to spread the clamping load. Similar to how alloy wheels steel inserts or the quake mod inserts are used on the cylinder head. Steel plate probably does not need this.
- The one I linked to has a stated bore of 3.360" (85.35 mm).
- Large enough footprint to sit on top of the timing plate cover as well. Since that needs to be attached when boring and some other machining on the block.
 

suprarx7nut

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#15
Good call on the dowels. I just drafted everything, but need to go back and add those. Looking at Xometry pricing (probably a little high) so far I think I could make 3-5 and rent them long term for a couple hundred bucks or sell them for ~$700. If we get a group buy going with 5 or more peeps pricing could probably drop to around $500.

Does that pricing seem reasonable enough to pursue? I suspect there are only a few of us on here that would use it, but maybe facebook has a larger population that would be interested. I'd have to have a likely sale number of 5 or so or a dozen or so rentals in a couple years to make it worth my time.

That's without inserts. I think for temporary machining purposes it'd be fine without inserts. It won't ever get hot and anyone taking the time and effort to use a torque plate at all shouldn't be careless enough to over-torque it to the point of yield. That being said, the inserts may be cheap insurance. Anecdotally, the 2J and 1J plates I'm seeing online don't appear to have any inserts.
 

Piratetip

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#16
So you are targeting an Al plate?

Count me in if you make them. I will buy one.
 

suprarx7nut

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#17
So you are targeting an Al plate?

Count me in if you make them. I will buy one.
Yeah, aluminum. 6061-T6.

I'll ask around at my go-to shops and see what they say. Xometry is usually a little on the high end, so I think my pricing above is pretty safe.
 

JDMMA70

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#19
Looks good although I dont remember Ron's torque plate having the oil feed holes. His was about 1.5in to 2in thick IIRC. Just need to measure from the top of the head bolt surface to the bottom of the bolt hole to get the required width if the user is going to use head bolts. Otherwise you can make the plate not as thick but you'll also need to make spacers to allow for the stud nuts or head bolts to be torqued properly.
 

JDMMA70

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#21
My mistake, however these are generally removed when honing the bores. Least from what I can remember when mine were done. 462789_10100503757118866_37503375_46412005_156007228_o.jpeg
 

Piratetip

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#22
Good to note!

I would still include the holes for the dowel pins. If the machinist uses the locating dowels or not, the option would be there.
Won't hurt anything to have them even if they aren't used.
 

Piratetip

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#24
Funny you mention them.
I was going to contact them about it.
Or just stop by there, their building says they are in the same town as me...
 

eman365

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#25
If you do get a chance to stop in I'd be interested in the feedback.
Cam Amrhein is the guy I spoke to. He said lead time is about 1.5 weeks.
Sounded like they have produced them in the past, just haven't had any requests in sometime.
Quick response too, on my inquiry.
 

Piratetip

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#26
I'll try and stop by there one of these days.
 

suprarx7nut

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#27
Anyone ever do any business CCA Racing Products? https://ccaracing.com/aluminum-torque-plates/
They quoted $495 + freight. Aluminum w/hardened insert washers and spacers- bore as requested. I'll need to explore this option some more or see what develops with a possible group buy.
That's a great price. I'll have a tough time beating/matching that!
 

supranaut

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#28
They rent them for some applications. Sure the ol 7M isn't one of them.
 

Piratetip

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#29
I will keep trying the phone #, so far no answer.
It sounds like is a small operation machine shop doing custom work on an as received basis.
I talked with Rocket Racing about CCA Enterprises, they reference that company and phone # as a distributor.
 

eman365

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#30
YotaMD, all is not lost, yet.
I reached out to Cam (CCA) this evening and left both voice and email messages. I'll sit on it a couple more days before continuing to look for other options.
Piratetip, was Rocket Racing able to offer a positive spin CCA?
 

Piratetip

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Yeah they had good things to say about CCA.
Appears to be a small operation but of quality workmanship.
 

eman365

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#32
Spoke to Cam today and had a good conversation.
Small shop as PirateTip stated...a few guys.
About 13 years experience manufacturing auto parts and torque plates, the latter being their bread and butter.
Since a rental seems improbable these days it looks like I'm rolling the dice on new.
 

suprarx7nut

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#33
Captain over on SM ordered 5 this morning. I guess it's the season for torque plates! Not sure what shop he used.
 

JISupra88

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#36
hey everyone. I haven't been following this thread but I wish I had been.

not sure I'm reading this correctly but did anyone have luck sourcing a torque plate for the 7mgte? I'm definitely still interested in buying one
 

suprarx7nut

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#37
hey everyone. I haven't been following this thread but I wish I had been.

not sure I'm reading this correctly but did anyone have luck sourcing a torque plate for the 7mgte? I'm definitely still interested in buying one
Captain over on SM is having some (5, I think) made. The shop making them is still working on it. He may have one available still to buy, but if not reach out to me. I secured one and may be able to rent it out, pending your timeframe.
 

JISupra88

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#38
Captain over on SM is having some (5, I think) made. The shop making them is still working on it. He may have one available still to buy, but if not reach out to me. I secured one and may be able to rent it out, pending your timeframe.
thanks suprarx7nut. I'm hoping to buy one but i will definitely be taking you up on the offer if that falls through.

also I'm not familiar with the lingo but what's SM? i thought supramania was SM.