Thinking about 2uz swap in a 89 mkiii

PureDrifter

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just wanted to add my bit:

Weight:
The 2UZ 4.7L block weighs a grand total of 82lbs (~37.2kg) more than the aluminum blocked UZ engines. Given the weight savings the 1uz enjoys over the 7m/xJ series engines this shouldn't be a major concern. The pushrod SBC motors are lighter, however.

1UZ vs. 2UZ vs. 1UZ VVTi vs. 2UZ VVTi:
early 1UZs are the cheap as beans variety, and offer the lowest power, reasonable weight, and relatively simple (non-immobilized, cable throttle) wiring. Up to '95-96 (depending LS or SC) they had the nice beefy rods as well, and weren't interference.
later (98-00) 1UZ VVTi engines had lighter (skinny) rods, are roughly double the price (going rate ~$1100+ in my area), offer a lot more power over a much wider range due to both a greatly improved head and intake manifold design, but are OBDII and throttle by wire (though they have throttle cables for backup use).
2UZs came in 2 variants, non-VVTi and VVTi. Non-VVTi are much more common, and wiring is similar to the 1UZ-VVTi, though one should note that 01+ cars will have CAN and other body ecu crap integrated into them that may be annoying to sort out. Going rate is slightly higher than the 1UZ VVTi, with the price going up the newer the motor.

HEAD Flow:
early 1UZ (pre '95/96) have the LOWEST flowing heads of the lot. '95/96-97 (LS, SC respectively) had minor improvements.
VVTi 1UZ (98-00) and 3UZ ('01+) had MUCH MUCH HIGHER FLOWING HEADS!!! This is not only due to the VVTi, but rather a very different head and intake manifold design which
is shared on the 2UZ (all years). In essence, Head flow between VVTi 1/2/3UZ and non-VVTi 2UZ are comparable.

Interchangeability:
block vs. head wise, all 1/2/3UZ are interchangeable, but with limitations on rotating assy. For example, you can't bolt up a 1UZ-VVTi head/intake onto your early 1UZ, as the pistons will foul the valves since the later engines were interference where as the first gens are not. There's a big spreadsheet type thing on Lextreme showing what's known interchangeable and what's not.
'98+ intake manifolds are interchangeable, but will not work with pre '98 heads. Also, You cannot run a '98+ head/intake setup on an early 1UZ electrical system due to both the drive by wire and the fact that the later cars run distributor-less COP ignition.

I commend your idea to run a 2UZ but will also point out that in addition to the minor weight penalty, the 2UZ is a 2-bolt main engine, not 6-bolt. While for normal/mild builds that shouldn't be an issue, if you want to boost it you'll want to have that converted when you do the rods/pistons (which you'll have to because it has skinny rods lol).
 

redrocco

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That's all part of why I am such a big fan of the early 1UZ. They are quite a sturdy engine in stock form and have been run with high boost and held up fine with out building them up at all. The way I look at it costs me $500 each time I have bought a 1UZ, I then sell the cats for $75 each for scrap so the end cost is only $350 and that's if I don't sell any other extra unneeded bits. If I were replaceing a dead 1UZ I could probably get over $150 for it in scrap. While in the past 6 years neather of my 2 1uz powered cars has ever had its engine die its only around $200 and a weekend of my time to replace. Plus I wind up with a bunch of spare parts like ps pumps, alts, harnesses EXT.

The head flow is kinda the big disappointment of the 1UZ but cams, and over sized valves are available if you so desire. Its not a bolt in swap by any means but the only costly parts I had to buy were 1Jz to r154 bellhouseing for $375, a 1uz to 1jz adapter plate for $600 and I had phenox tuning make me a plug and play harness for around $550. For the most part I eather used stock parts or made the rest my self. I would appropriate the total cost of the swap to be just under $3000. Now I have a strong, reliable engine that's good on gas and almost free to replace if it ever dies.
 

PureDrifter

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Didn't know they were 2 bolters, thanks for that :)
no problem, rumor is that Toyota didnt feel they needed the 6-bolt main for the 2UZ since it's an extra-dense (cite) iron block. the 1UZ was originally codeveloped to serve dual purpose as a base for a saloon car engine hence the over-square, short stroke, 6-bolt main, etc...

EDIT: Also, redrocco, it's documented that standard late model (98+) heads flow better than even ported+polished (though idk about OS valves) early heads. You can swap the later heads and intakes on though if you are willing to go standalone w/proper pistons.
 

IJ.

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no problem, rumor is that Toyota didnt feel they needed the 6-bolt main for the 2UZ since it's an extra-dense (cite) iron block. the 1UZ was originally codeveloped to serve dual purpose as a base for a saloon car engine hence the over-square, short stroke, 6-bolt main, etc...

EDIT: Also, redrocco, it's documented that standard late model (98+) heads flow better than even ported+polished (though idk about OS valves) early heads. You can swap the later heads and intakes on though if you are willing to go standalone w/proper pistons.
If they cast it from the same mix as 7M's I'd agree it's some of the hardest cast iron I've ever machined!
(gotta :love: learning new shit!)
 

redrocco

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I forgot to to add the flywheel into my list of swap parts. I got a pair of them (i think they were the first 2 he finished) for only $200 from suprarunner back in 07 because I helped him with the R&D and provided him with all the bolt patterns for the W58and R154 supra pressure plates.
I have thought about the head swap as I am running full stand alone at this point but the cost of pistons and ARP hardware and MLS gaskets has kept me from doing it since I plan to replace the 1UZ in my black supra with the 1GZ that I got in February. The 1UZ is going to be moved into my blue mk3 supra and put back to NA for the moment so I am trying to not spend any more money on it then i really have to. In the future once I get the 1GZ all set and running the way I want I will go back and see what more I can do to my 1UZ. I will have to compare the flow of stock 98+ heads to early heads with kelford cams and see what gets the most for the money.
 

PureDrifter

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I forgot to to add the flywheel into my list of swap parts. I got a pair of them (i think they were the first 2 he finished) for only $200 from suprarunner back in 07 because I helped him with the R&D and provided him with all the bolt patterns for the W58and R154 supra pressure plates.
I have thought about the head swap as I am running full stand alone at this point but the cost of pistons and ARP hardware and MLS gaskets has kept me from doing it since I plan to replace the 1UZ in my black supra with the 1GZ that I got in February. The 1UZ is going to be moved into my blue mk3 supra and put back to NA for the moment so I am trying to not spend any more money on it then i really have to. In the future once I get the 1GZ all set and running the way I want I will go back and see what more I can do to my 1UZ. I will have to compare the flow of stock 98+ heads to early heads with kelford cams and see what gets the most for the money.
If you are serious about upgrading the heads on your 1UZ to the later model heads, I would recco you take a look at fitting early (non-VVTi) 2UZ heads instead of 1/3UZ VVTi heads. You'll still have to go standalone (since there's no provision for distributors iirc) but you'll be able to use normal cams, which are a hell of a lot easier to find (kelford for example) than VVTi cams (for which nobody makes blanks...). You could use the 2UZ non-VVTi heads with the 1/3UZ VVTi intake manifolds since they clear a lot better in cars than the long runner truck intake manis do. (i'd stick to '1UZ since the wiring will be slightly easier).

I've actually got 90% of a 1UZ-W58 conversion setup sitting in my garage, all i'm missing is the T56-TOB, and TOB adapter plate. Kind of on the fence about going early 1UZ (cheap, but low gains) or biting the bullet and doing some 5.3L Vortec + Novak AX15 adapter+R154 monstrosity. Heavier, more power, but a fair bit more money since my car's currently a dead motor'd NA W58.
 

SuperRunner

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Stay away from the 2UZ, just don't even go there.

2UZ with 1UZ heads.....Better, but you are going to suffocate that displacement, but at least you will be able to rev. Stock 2UZ cams are not ment for rev's.

2UZ's blocks break around the 800hp mark

My recommendation would be any good old 95-older 1UZ. Stock cams aren't as bad as people may think, and the heads don't flow that bad. Question for some of you guys out there dogging on the 1UZ. Have you actually ever FLOWED a 1UZ head? My guess would be NO!!! Another question, have any of you actually ever boosted a stock motor? Only a few out there can say yes. A lot of crap gets thrown around on these forums.

A few facts:
1UZ heads flow just as good as 2JZGTE heads. How do I know....I personally tested!!
Rods are just as strong as 2JZ rods, how do I know.... I personally tested
1UZ pistons are manufactured in the same fashion as 2J pistons, so you assume that they are close to the same strength.(I should go measure the ring lands)
This being said, then in theory as long as the block holds together, a stock form 1UZ can do 1200rwhp out of the box, although I have yet to see any hard evidence of someone attempting to push the max ouf the the 1UZ. Usually the internals get upgraded anything after 600rwhp. It used to be pretty well accepted that a 2J could only handle 600rwhp, we all know that just is not true. I would truly love to see someone see how far they can take a stock 1UZ.

That being said, how much HP can a stock LSx motor take without upgrades? Might be similar I guess, but the motor alone is going to cost you 5K, where as a good condition used 1UZ.....$350. Now you can spend the other $4650 on the turbo conversion and electronics.

I have a local friend with a turbo LS400, only 9psi, but at 9, that things moves.

I have had two supercharged 1UZ's, one with a M90 and the other with an M112. My recommendation.. DON'T DO IT!!!! Neither charger is big enough and the parasitic loss is awefull.



In my personal opinion, LSx swaps are way overdone. Easy, yes, very easy and in many cases even though the cost is more for the motor, the end result for the power output desired can be less than other swaps. But again.....OVERDONE!!!! So you open your hood, and guys are like oh, cool, a vette motor, then move on. I see so many LSx swaps, they bore crap out of me. Dealing with an LS6 FD swap right now.
 

te72

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For what it is worth guys, the plan is to turbo the 1uz going into the Chevy at some point. Nothing too crazy (it is a fairly high mileage car), but just to balance out the loss that you suffer at altitude makes cars nice. :)
 

pogoism9

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QFT.

Also, steer clear of the 95-97 1UZFE if you are going to use stock pistons. The rings aren't carried aftermarket (trust me, I looked and looked and looked) and Toyota wants your first 3 children for a set.

Best bang for the buck, 92-94 1UZ. You can get them for pennies on the dollar from a pick and pull. Another better difference between the 1UZ and 2UZ is the 1UZ uses a 6 bolt main where the 2UZ has a 2 bolt.

Lastly, have fun getting 98 VVTI heads on a pre-98 block. They aren't compatible due to the differences in the oil channels that come up to the heads.

EDIT: And of course I didn't read all the pages so some of the info I give is redundant. Doesn't make it any less true though.

Stay away from the 2UZ, just don't even go there.

2UZ with 1UZ heads.....Better, but you are going to suffocate that displacement, but at least you will be able to rev. Stock 2UZ cams are not ment for rev's.

2UZ's blocks break around the 800hp mark

My recommendation would be any good old 95-older 1UZ. Stock cams aren't as bad as people may think, and the heads don't flow that bad. Question for some of you guys out there dogging on the 1UZ. Have you actually ever FLOWED a 1UZ head? My guess would be NO!!! Another question, have any of you actually ever boosted a stock motor? Only a few out there can say yes. A lot of crap gets thrown around on these forums.

A few facts:
1UZ heads flow just as good as 2JZGTE heads. How do I know....I personally tested!!
Rods are just as strong as 2JZ rods, how do I know.... I personally tested
1UZ pistons are manufactured in the same fashion as 2J pistons, so you assume that they are close to the same strength.(I should go measure the ring lands)
This being said, then in theory as long as the block holds together, a stock form 1UZ can do 1200rwhp out of the box, although I have yet to see any hard evidence of someone attempting to push the max ouf the the 1UZ. Usually the internals get upgraded anything after 600rwhp. It used to be pretty well accepted that a 2J could only handle 600rwhp, we all know that just is not true. I would truly love to see someone see how far they can take a stock 1UZ.

That being said, how much HP can a stock LSx motor take without upgrades? Might be similar I guess, but the motor alone is going to cost you 5K, where as a good condition used 1UZ.....$350. Now you can spend the other $4650 on the turbo conversion and electronics.

I have a local friend with a turbo LS400, only 9psi, but at 9, that things moves.

I have had two supercharged 1UZ's, one with a M90 and the other with an M112. My recommendation.. DON'T DO IT!!!! Neither charger is big enough and the parasitic loss is awefull.



In my personal opinion, LSx swaps are way overdone. Easy, yes, very easy and in many cases even though the cost is more for the motor, the end result for the power output desired can be less than other swaps. But again.....OVERDONE!!!! So you open your hood, and guys are like oh, cool, a vette motor, then move on. I see so many LSx swaps, they bore crap out of me. Dealing with an LS6 FD swap right now.
 

IJ.

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We have a TVS 2300 waiting to go on the Soarer, personally I think it's too much blower for the 4.0L But Al wants to go ahead with it..
 

ttsupra2503

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In my personal opinion, LSx swaps are way overdone. Easy, yes, very easy and in many cases even though the cost is more for the motor, the end result for the power output desired can be less than other swaps. But again.....OVERDONE!!!! So you open your hood, and guys are like oh, cool, a vette motor, then move on. I see so many LSx swaps, they bore crap out of me. Dealing with an LS6 FD swap right now.
I know I am cutting down his statement which is very informative but thank god someone else said this other then me. lol

I am sitting on a full 1992 LS400 right now that is locally available. It doesn't run the best but is only 900 bucks and sounds like the timing belt skipped a couple teeth. I want the steering column, motor and dash for my next supra project..... wait... first I gotta finish mine.
 

SuperRunner

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We have a TVS 2300 waiting to go on the Soarer, personally I think it's too much blower for the 4.0L But Al wants to go ahead with it..
As long as you got enough fuel and the right kind of fuel, most definitely not too much. Remember, the 1UZ has a small crank pulley compared to other motors that charger goes onto. I always ran the smallest pulley possible, and even with my M112 I maxed out at 7psi(4800ft elevation)


Speaking of such, my SC kit is for sale if anyone is interested.

 

Kyle Hartman

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I may buy a 92 ls400 and use it. Would the trans in it work for the swap as well? The dude lost the title and is selling it 1000obo. Which in my eyes isn't bad for the car. It looks taken care of and has no mechanical issues. Miles aren't high either
 

RedPhoenix

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Someone said boost?



my sled isnt done yet... but should be interesting when it runs.
 

Poodles

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I may buy a 92 ls400 and use it. Would the trans in it work for the swap as well? The dude lost the title and is selling it 1000obo. Which in my eyes isn't bad for the car. It looks taken care of and has no mechanical issues. Miles aren't high either
"lost title" is a red flag to me. There's always the chance of it being stolen, so you'll want to work on getting the title squared away. Getting caught with stolen goods isn't a good thing...
 

ttsupra2503

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"lost title" is a red flag to me. There's always the chance of it being stolen, so you'll want to work on getting the title squared away. Getting caught with stolen goods isn't a good thing...
I wonder if its like up here where you can check to make sure that the car isn't stolen and register it as a parts car. That way if you ever want to put the car back on the road you have to get it fully inspected. As for the stolen side of it, I would imagine a phone call to a local registry or police station should work for you.
 

hvyman

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There's carfax as well
 

Kyle Hartman

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True. I mean he said bought on Craigslist, came with title. But over time lost it cause no need for car. But I'm still on the same thought as you. Even though it'd be cheap parts for my build I still have that thought it was someones daily car stolen and I just used everything they had
 

Riceman83

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My car didn't have a title and here is the process I took. Called local state trooper to come to the car and he filled out various paperwork and ran the vin which came back as not stolen. I took the paper work to DMV to file for a lost title and they said it had lein on it ( i assume for work or what not) anyways I had to contact my insurance agent and get a bond for such amount. Don't remember detail on amount but I had to keep it for two years, but after I took the papers from insurance to DMV they sent it all to little rock and they sent me a title. The way I had it explained is if someone wanted to collect in the two years I would have to pay or give the car up. I know you haven't got that far or if your even considering it but just a heads up jic. In other words don't touch it with a 10' pole till police run the vin!!!
 

PureDrifter

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Stay away from the 2UZ, just don't even go there.

2UZ with 1UZ heads.....Better, but you are going to suffocate that displacement, but at least you will be able to rev. Stock 2UZ cams are not ment for rev's.

2UZ's blocks break around the 800hp mark
For clarification you mean a non-vvti 1UZ head, right? A VVT-i 1 or 3UZ head should flow the same/better than the 2UZ heads.

Also, if you wanted to run 2UZ heads on an early car, you could run the non-VVTi heads without worrying about oil channels afaik, but would still need a standalone.

800hp? I've heard of the rods letting go at anything over 8-9PSI but that may be old info. I would think 800hp on the skinny rods and 2-bolt main would be pretty damn good frankly, lol.
 

SuperRunner

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For clarification you mean a non-vvti 1UZ head, right? A VVT-i 1 or 3UZ head should flow the same/better than the 2UZ heads.

Also, if you wanted to run 2UZ heads on an early car, you could run the non-VVTi heads without worrying about oil channels afaik, but would still need a standalone.

800hp? I've heard of the rods letting go at anything over 8-9PSI but that may be old info. I would think 800hp on the skinny rods and 2-bolt main would be pretty damn good frankly, lol.
Yes, non-vvti. I would not run vvti heads. 1uz heads flow well enough for 1000hp with cams 800 easy without. Dont bother with 2uz heads unless you get aftermarket cams with it. Cam profile is all wrong.

2uz block itself will grenade past 800, that is of course if you have rods.
 

te72

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True. I mean he said bought on Craigslist, came with title. But over time lost it cause no need for car. But I'm still on the same thought as you. Even though it'd be cheap parts for my build I still have that thought it was someones daily car stolen and I just used everything they had
As has been said, get the vin, and call up the local PD to have them check it for you. Worst case scenario, you bust a potential thief. :p That said, $1000 for a running and driving LS400 is an awesome deal, especially if the "lost title" is the only thing wrong with it. I bought one with 176k and some deer damage (which honestly wasn't bad at all other than the broken headlight housing) for $1100. Damned good car though, if I ever need a DD that isn't a sports car, I know what I'll be looking for...

We have a TVS 2300 waiting to go on the Soarer, personally I think it's too much blower for the 4.0L But Al wants to go ahead with it..
Isn't that the same size blower on the C6 ZR1? I don't know much about superchargers, but is that going to cause a bit of lag/parasitic loss?
 

LunaVyohr

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The amount of effort you put in to be "different" with a UZ swap is hardly worth it. You're spending thousands just to swap in a motor that only made 250hp/260lb when new. You're spending even more if you want to up the power. For all that time and effort, you could have an LS engine, which is much more powerful, compact, and has tons more support.

Sometimes, being different doesn't make you cooler, it just makes your retardation stand out more.
 

IJ.

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Isn't that the same size blower on the C6 ZR1? I don't know much about superchargers, but is that going to cause a bit of lag/parasitic loss?
Yes it is but modern TVS Blowers as a good deal more efficient, while cruising there is minimal "loss" as it's in bypass mode and not compressing, I just think it's too big and will need to be turned too slowly to keep boost managable.


The amount of effort you put in to be "different" with a UZ swap is hardly worth it. You're spending thousands just to swap in a motor that only made 250hp/260lb when new. You're spending even more if you want to up the power. For all that time and effort, you could have an LS engine, which is much more powerful, compact, and has tons more support.

Sometimes, being different doesn't make you cooler, it just makes your retardation stand out more.
Been saying much the same thing for years now but there are "the purists" that have to keep it Toyota no matter what even though the Mk3 chassis never came with an 1UZ and is as much of a hack as any other V8 swap....

Not to mention the LS is lighter, cheaper has a far better/affordable upgrade path and usually at least 1700cc larger and only 50mm longer yet narrower.. ;)
 

LunaVyohr

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Been saying much the same thing for years now but there are "the purists" that have to keep it Toyota no matter what even though the Mk3 chassis never came with an 1UZ and is as much of a hack as any other V8 swap....

Not to mention the LS is lighter, cheaper has a far better/affordable upgrade path and usually at least 1700cc larger and only 50mm longer yet narrower.. ;)
But the 1UZ is JDM tight yo!
 

Poodles

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1UZ is cheap and can be made (almost) bolt in since people have already done the hard work for you. Until someone does the same for other engines, it will be the easier V8 to run :(
 

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1UZ is cheap and can be made (almost) bolt in since people have already done the hard work for you. Until someone does the same for other engines, it will be the easier V8 to run :(
I have done the 1uz and am in the process of the LSx motor. They are of the same complexity as far as I am concerned. Pricing is almost the same if you go with a truck engine but parts are far more plentiful and much cheaper.
I was able to buy an 02+ z06 cam, yellow springs, and push rods for $200 and it looked almost brand new. I was able to get a mail order tune on my ECU for $75. I got a brand new swap harness for $500.

I have done all the work to show how to bolt an R154 to an LSx engine and the cost is ~$500. Engine mounts are the last piece needed and those are fairly simple. I posted up my solidworks drawing of the ones I made that work with the 89+ round isolators.

What I like most about the swap is that any block from a 5.3L to a 7.0L will now bolt right in to my swap. There are just so many more options.
 

SuperRunner

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Not to mention the LS is lighter, cheaper has a far better/affordable upgrade path and usually at least 1700cc larger and only 50mm longer yet narrower.. ;)
Can't remember the last time I saw a good running LS motor in the junk yard for $125.

I pick up a bout 2 1UZ motors a year. Complete with harness, ecu, all accessories and usually snag the bellhousing too.

It also comes down to preference. I for one prefer the sound a high revving oversquare 4v motor.

Saying "far better/affordable" is a bunch of BS though because what it comes down to is again, preference and also availability.