The dreaded coolant heater banjo pipe...LEAVE IT ALONE! Any advice? VIDEO ADDED!!!!

the t3d

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#41
Oh joy.
My engine coolant is leaking in this exact same area as OP.

Don't know exactly which component but I have every part on order.
Going to replace it all in one shot, don't want to deal with this again.
Though I feel like I already replaced all these parts 10x years ago, but my memory fails me.

Wish me luck.

Here is the parts list I have coming if anyone runs into this again. (They will)
QTY - PN - Description
2x - 90430-22008 - Gasket(For Water By-Pass Pipe)
4x - 90467-22003 - Clamp Or Clip, Hose(For Water By-Pass Hose)
1x - 16282-42010 - Hose, Water By-Pass, NO.5
2x - 90339-16007 - Plug, Heater Water
1x - 90405-17005 - UNION, WATER BY-PASS PIPE
1x - 90401-22004 - Bolt, Union(For Water By-Pass Pipe)
4x - 96112-10250 - Clamp Or Clip, Hose(For Water By-Pass Hose)

Some parts are superseeded by new PN's but they all work for ordering.
Also getting some duplicates just to have on hand.
Godspeed sir! I got my baby to start and was quite happy. A few little leaks here and there that I fixed afterwards. But I still need to seat the rings because she started smoking some oil, like a lot. It was not coolant, trsut me I freaked at first. But beforeI could do that I had to move across state for school, so I'm hoping Thanksgiving break allows me to seat the rings without causing the coolant leak to worsen. Gotta replace the brake master before I can take her on the road to break her in though. Everything is a damn process! Let me know how your repair goes. I may be sending mine to a shop I trust to fix the leak while I'm in school. Be sure to update on this post!
 

Piratetip

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#42
Agreed.

If the part hasn't been replaced, its going to break.
That's the motto I use for this vehicle.

Sure is a blast to drive though. :D
 
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Piratetip

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#43
I have it just about torn down completely.

Had to machine up a custom socket to properly fit the Banjo bolt today.
Will try it later and see how it goes, should be able to fit a full 1/2" breaker bar on it. (Just removed the exhaust side camshaft cover)

Waiting on the parts to ship, hopefully have it on the road again by the weekend.
 

Piratetip

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#44
Removal of the banjo bolt was quite easy.
No jacking up of engine or mounts or anything was needed.
Just had to get a short socket and Mill the center out for clearance to sit down on the bolt.
Came out with a breaker bar very easily.

Removed exhaust side valve cover to make it easier for hose clamp removal.

If the new parts were here I would have it back together already.
Oh well, just keep remodeling my house instead.



 
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the t3d

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#45
Removal of the banjo bolt was quite easy.
No jacking up of engine or mounts or anything was needed.
Just had to get a short socket and Mill the center out for clearance to sit down on the bolt.
Came out with a breaker bar very easily.

Removed exhaust side valve cover to make it easier for hose clamp removal.

If the new parts were here I would have it back together already.
Oh well, just keep remodeling my house instead.



Interesting! I bought a med deep socket that I was planning on cutting down to fit over the bolt and use a breaker bar. Now you said yours broke loose relatively easy, but you've replaced yours before correct? Mine might break easier with the motor mounted rather than me trying to break it loose on the stand. What kind of engine and transmission mounts are you running? I have poly mounts across the board. Your clearance looks greater that mine but I could just be imagining that. When you out the new one in, can you do me a favor and measure the distance you have from the top of the new pipe to your fire wall? And I'm curious what brand socket you have, and might as well ask what breaker bar you're using? Lol. If I can avoid paying someone hundreds of dollars to fix this, I would definitely prefer that. Thanks man!
 

Piratetip

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#46
Yeah I also tried the medium height socket as well.
Its a bit too tall, hits the firewall, no clearance to use a breaker bar.

The shorter socket fits great, lots of clearance off the firewall if you use a breaker bar like the one I used.
The only issue was the clearance at the center, I had to mill it out to have it fit down far enough on the banjo bolt.
You can see the square in the center I milled out about 1/4" deep.

Engine mounts are still rubber, trans mount is a hybrid piece. Rubber with polyurethane reinforcement.
All other bushings on the car are polyurethane though.

Yeah I can measure the clearance, my parts come in Friday so I will do it then.
Socket isn't anything special, just a generic short 12 point, costs about $5.
Breaker bar is a 1/2" flex handle from craftsman, it fits in better than some of the other designs because its low overall height.
https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-9-44201-2-Inch-15-Inch-Handle/dp/B00065T0MI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1539291080&sr=8-2&keywords=Craftsman+Flex+Handle+1/2

Yeah I don't see a need to have someone else do this, its really not that hard.
The make or break part for most people is probably the socket issue, but if you can sort that out the repair total time should only be around 2 hours or less.

If those options didn't work my other resort would have been to use my TIG to weld a bar on the socket.
 

the t3d

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#47
Yeah I also tried the medium height socket as well.
Its a bit too tall, hits the firewall, no clearance to use a breaker bar.

The shorter socket fits great, lots of clearance off the firewall if you use a breaker bar like the one I used.
The only issue was the clearance at the center, I had to mill it out to have it fit down far enough on the banjo bolt.
You can see the square in the center I milled out about 1/4" deep.

Engine mounts are still rubber, trans mount is a hybrid piece. Rubber with polyurethane reinforcement.
All other bushings on the car are polyurethane though.

Yeah I can measure the clearance, my parts come in Friday so I will do it then.
Socket isn't anything special, just a generic short 12 point, costs about $5.
Breaker bar is a 1/2" flex handle from craftsman, it fits in better than some of the other designs because its low overall height.
https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-9-44201-2-Inch-15-Inch-Handle/dp/B00065T0MI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1539291080&sr=8-2&keywords=Craftsman+Flex+Handle+1/2

Yeah I don't see a need to have someone else do this, its really not that hard.
The make or break part for most people is probably the socket issue, but if you can sort that out the repair total time should only be around 2 hours or less.

If those options didn't work my other resort would have been to use my TIG to weld a bar on the socket.
Yeah that makes sense. So breaker bar goes for about 20 shipped which ain't bad. I have one back home. Not sure how thin it is though. As far as the socket, I don't have access to a mill, do you think when you're done with your socket and the leak is 100 percent fixed, I could buy or borrow the socket from you? The closer I can to recreating something that definitively works, the better off I'll be. I'll have a chance to work on her over Thanksgiving break when I head back home. I can give it a shot then.

And if that wouldn't work, I'd consider finding a mobile welder to weld a nut on there. All those options are still cheaper than sending it to a shop. I really appreciate the info.
 

Piratetip

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#48
Sure. I can mail you the socket.
Just mail it back and I will gladly lend it out.

I will mail it to anyone else else that needs it also.

Shipping such a tiny package won't cost much either.

Will let you know when I am done with it, probably by Sunday.
 

the t3d

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#49
Sure. I can mail you the socket.
Just mail it back and I will gladly lend it out.

I will mail it to anyone else else that needs it also.

Shipping such a tiny package won't cost much either.

Will let you know when I am done with it, probably by Sunday.
Awesome man. Really appreciate it. Yeah definitely me/us posted.
 

Piratetip

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#50
Another couple photos on how tight the fitment is with this socket.
Just barely covers the bolt head on the banjo.

 

Piratetip

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#52
Here are the measurements.
Measured between the face of 2 of the brake lines running across the firewall and center of the pipe.
30mm and 40mm for the lower one.


 

the t3d

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#53
Awesome thank you. Did you have any issues when removing the pipe and getting the socket and breaker bar our without getting pinned? And did you clean out the threads or need to before installing the new pipe?
 

Piratetip

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#54
No. Zero issues.
Just cracked it loose and removed socket, spun in and out by hand.
Threads we're good, checked with borescopre.
 

Piratetip

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I also noticed the new spring clips are much stronger/thicker than the old. They have a 2nd band of metal to reinforce, quite nice. I will take a side by side photo of both.

Also pretty sure my coolant leak was from corossion/rust between one of the metal pipes and rubber hoses. Don't think it was the banjo bolt washers, either way I am glad to have all new parts.
 

the t3d

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#56
No. Zero issues.
Just cracked it loose and removed socket, spun in and out by hand.
Threads we're good, checked with borescopre.
You did say that you have replaced this once before, correct? I'm just imagining mine not coming out as smooth as I don't think it's ever been replaced. I'll be probably soaking it PB Blaster a lot before I attack this.
 

Piratetip

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#57
Yeah I am fairly certain I took it off maybe 10 years ago, just changed washers. Reused the original banjo bolt and pipes. Which was probably a mistake.
 

the t3d

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#58
I wish I would've known if mine was replaced. It would give me some peace of mind but I'll just have to be extra careful. Did you fully drain your cooling system or just part of it?
 

Piratetip

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#59
I drained everything that would come out of the radiator petcock.
I'm running a filter on my coolant system currently, so will just reuse it. (Toyota Pink)
Will remove the filter next year probably, just want it to pull everything out of the system. (Any particulates)
 

the t3d

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#60
I drained everything that would come out of the radiator petcock.
I'm running a filter on my coolant system currently, so will just reuse it. (Toyota Pink)
Will remove the filter next year probably, just want it to pull everything out of the system. (Any particulates)
We are one in the same lol. I too added a coolant filter to the system but I need to add more thread tape to one of the connections as I found it leaking a little. I will be draining most of the system because it's a fresh rebuild and if there are shavings in the oil, then there are shavings in the coolant. She's already gotten the immediate first LOF, sonit makes sense to just do the same with the coolant. However, I am considering running the coolant maybe through some sort of coffee filter to salvage as much as possible.

Out of curiosity, since the rings haven't seated yet and she reads running lean at idle (she'll need a re-tune with the new setup). I want to jumpstart seating the rings before taking her on the road and doing the sub-4000 rpm deceleration pulls. Is there much harm to reving it up in the driveway at idle to start to eliminate the oil blow-by while she's running lean? I've put so much time into this, I don't want to f this up breaking her in.
 

Piratetip

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#61
I would not run the engine until it's ready to be driven.
To properly seal new rings the engine needs to be under load. Revving while stationary isn't a good idea IMO.
I would also get the lean issue sorted first.

There are tons of articles on the subject, but the most critical part is proper ring break in.
JE has a good article on it.
http://blog.jepistons.com/how-to-break-in-an-engine?hs_amp=true

The short version:
-Conventional or break in oil for the first couple oil changes. (Very short oil change intervals)
-Vary the RPM, never cruise at the same speed/RPM.
-Use mid to heavy acceleration AND decel (heavy engine vacuum)
-Change break in oil 2-3 times up to the 1500 mile marker, then switch to a longer OCI with whatever synthetic (or otherwise) oil you prefer.
 

the t3d

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#62
I would not run the engine until it's ready to be driven.
To properly seal new rings the engine needs to be under load. Revving while stationary isn't a good idea IMO.
I would also get the lean issue sorted first.

There are tons of articles on the subject, but the most critical part is proper ring break in.
JE has a good article on it.
http://blog.jepistons.com/how-to-break-in-an-engine?hs_amp=true

The short version:
-Conventional or break in oil for the first couple oil changes. (Very short oil change intervals)
-Vary the RPM, never cruise at the same speed/RPM.
-Use mid to heavy acceleration AND decel (heavy engine vacuum)
-Change break in oil 2-3 times up to the 1500 mile marker, then switch to a longer OCI with whatever synthetic (or otherwise) oil you prefer.
That's what I was thinking. I've done a lot of reading on it and I know that is a key step. I had to start it to see what else was leaking and whatnot, after I have identified the issues. I need to install new brake master and bleed system to get her on the road. The lean thing scared me a bit so I not to really rev it at all when she was idling. Then she started smoking a good amount. I have a smoke tester and she passed the smoke test on the engine side of things. I found a vacuum leak at the BOV gasket that I tended to but don't remember vat the moment big I fully solved it. There are no codes so no help there. But I can fiddle with the short term fuel trim on the safc 2 to bring the ratio up. Fuel pressure also checked out okay and the injectors I had thoroughly cleaned. I may resmoke test the entire system just to make sure I don't see anything again before I start adding fuel though. All this makes sense in my head. I just tend to over think on this stuff. And once again, I really appreciate your help and info with all this.
 

Piratetip

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#63
I am feeling pretty good about my repair.
Shot me you address and I will ship you the socket.

Also here is the old vs new spring clamps.
The new ones are much nicer.

 

Piratetip

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#65
Only in some areas.
If these clamps provide enough clamping force and are accessable I use them. Otherwise use the stainless worm clamps.
 

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#66
I had a similar issue where the water union pipe broke off in the head when trying to remove it.
0617180902~2.jpg
With a little creativity and patience, I got it out. I sawed the remains of the pipe into a few pieces and collapsed it in.
IMG_20181031_163107.jpg
After I was done, I used a magnet to remove the shards/shavings and blew it out with compressed air. I installed a new union and crush washers with the motor on the engine stand. Once the motor went back in the car, I pressure tested the cooling system and discovered a leak back there. The only 32mm socket I could get to fit with no modification came from Northern Tool. I used a breaker bar and cheater pipe and was only able to move it about 1/8 of a turn, but luckily that was enough to seal it up.
 

Piratetip

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#67
Dang.
That is a lot of rust, you had some bad luck with that one.
 

the t3d

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#68
I had a similar issue where the water union pipe broke off in the head when trying to remove it.
View attachment 81336
With a little creativity and patience, I got it out. I sawed the remains of the pipe into a few pieces and collapsed it in.
View attachment 81338
After I was done, I used a magnet to remove the shards/shavings and blew it out with compressed air. I installed a new union and crush washers with the motor on the engine stand. Once the motor went back in the car, I pressure tested the cooling system and discovered a leak back there. The only 32mm socket I could get to fit with no modification came from Northern Tool. I used a breaker bar and cheater pipe and was only able to move it about 1/8 of a turn, but luckily that was enough to seal it up.
Damn dude. You were lucky that you were dealing with that rust with the motor outside the car. I may be able to manage doing what PirateTip did, but we'll see! I gotta wait til Thanksgiving break though. Getting closer!!
 

suprajim54

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#69
The pipe was mangled at the top and rusty, but I never guessed it would've broke off. I used a short breaker bar to remove it, and didn't realize it was breaking until it was too late. The nut part twisted right off. It was a pain to fix, but glad it worked
 

Piratetip

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#70
Must have sat outside or had some really bad coolant in there for some time.
Not much you could have done to prevent it breaking in half.
Maybe heating the aluminum head could have helped but have to be careful not to get it too hot and anneal the Al. These heads have gotten soft enough as it is over the years.
 

the t3d

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#71
Lol soft ass heads. I'll be crossing my fingers mine goes smoothly. For shits and giggles, I'm going to try and tighten it and re-pressure test it again and see if it seals since I'll be able to get leverage on it, but if not, I'll work on finagling that bitch out of there.
 

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#72
Had this same issue. I tried to remove the bolt and it snapped in half, inside the head. Drilled out the bolt to be just under the Max diameter of the threads, then collapsed the bolt in the head. The tap size is M22x1.5 for reference!!