T61 Bolt on Turbo by Cx Racing

IwantMKIII

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Not sure on the size comparison but the stock ct26 WG, couldn't that be modified and used instead of these really crappy ones you guys are complaining about?
 

IJ.

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It's more the hole and flapper size that's the issue, 3540r was the same, way too small once you got up in flow and easily blown off the seat.

With an ext gate and and EBC you put xx boost into the spring side of the diaphram to raise boot, ie: 10psi spring + 5 psi boost = 15psi.

Side benefit of doing it this way is you can run a really light spring and it won't blow off the seat and you get much more stable/accurate control.
 

IwantMKIII

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that goes against logic though for a flapper that's too small? Since pressure is a factor of area, why would a larger flapper be more difficult to be blown off?
 

IJ.

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Did you miss the "and" in between?

2 issues

too small

AND

easily blown off the seat, bigger valve would be even easier to blow off the seat and is why they don't make them bigger, there are some rare housings that have 2 valves/ports.

If you found an actuator with a port on the back side of the diaphram that would help but they're rare.
 

IwantMKIII

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Ahh, that explains it. I read it incorrectly. Actually there was a version of the ct series turbo with a 2 port system, though I believe it opened as one.

Edit: ahh here it is ct20b

 

IJ.

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paradox616

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My bets :p

15psi - 400rwhp (my dyno was a dynapac which supposedly is lower)
5psi - 220rwhp


IwankMKIII, the theory is you add boost reference into the bottom of the actuator which helps stops the valve from blowing open and helps controlling boost spike. You bleed the lower actuator input and the top input sees normal boost pressures. this is the way external gates work (or atleast my last car with a external gate)

I'll be looking for a internal gate actuator you can change the spring in. Down here in aus we have a domestic car that runs a GT35 from factory on a 4L inline 6 (pretty sure its a GT35, ford xr6turbo) Speaking to a few guys that push those turbos with larger housings and they all have the same problem, boost becomes very hard to control around 20psi and they end up dropping to around 10psi. there is quite a few internal gate adjustable actuators available :) 15psi spring, dual port should do the job nicely, I'll be the guinea pig again for everyone here :) Based on my findings i might contact CX racing about putting a decent actuator on this turbo. Good news is im not sure much fabrication will be required to swap the actuator out as its simply bolted into the bracket unlike the ct26 actuators where its welded on.

My estimate is ill have this done around early December.

On other news work decided they'd buy me a iphone4 so looks like ill be able to record in HD next time :p Pitty i wont have any reception.
 

CBatstone

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Is there any reason that we couldn't run an external wastegate on this turbo?

Since the turbo has a proper cast divider between the exhaust/waste flow, with a proper divorced Downpipe with the integrated true divider. (not just a flange piece of metal)

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww248/wegotebay/IMG_7173.jpg

We could remove the flapper for the internal gate, weld a flange for the external gate to the wastegate pipe, then fab a dump tube with an external wastegate in between. Does anyone see any problems with this?

Just a thought...


This weekend at the track:
I'm at 12psi now max with a MBC and its almost out of adjustment. I will pre-load the current gate another turn and a half and see what I can get to but yeah it appears to be too weak. I'm curious to see how that new internal wastegate works out that could be a great easy to add solution.
 

TurboLag

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Is there any reason that we couldn't run an external wastegate on this turbo?

Since the turbo has a proper cast divider between the exhaust/waste flow, with a proper divorced Downpipe with the integrated true divider. (not just a flange piece of metal)

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww248/wegotebay/IMG_7173.jpg

We could remove the flapper for the internal gate, weld a flange for the external gate to the wastegate pipe, then fab a dump tube with an external wastegate in between. Does anyone see any problems with this?

Just a thought...


This weekend at the track:
I'm at 12psi now max with a MBC and its almost out of adjustment. I will pre-load the current gate another turn and a half and see what I can get to but yeah it appears to be too weak. I'm curious to see how that new internal wastegate works out that could be a great easy to add solution.
seen this done with evos. IMO it would be easier to just weld the internal gate shut, and fab the wastegate onto the stock manifold.
 

bountykilla0118

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No ...... make an adapter and weld on to that....... you need the wastegate to be in area where all 6 exhaust port collect .....and if you make an adapter you avoid having to weld cast iron.
 

paradox616

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I think this discussion has gone off track,

The issue: Boost drops off in higher gears
Possible Causes: Waste gate is blowing open
Possible Fixes: Use a different Actuator that uses a twin port system/stiffer spring. Or external gate but that's by far the most difficult solution.

Yes a external gate would help but the point that everyone seems to be missing is due to the design of the actuator (low spring rating), as external gates are twin port and use boost pressure to help keep the gate shut and prevent it from blowing open.

As stated earlier in this thread, the wastegate port is 4mm bigger than the ct26 port (28mm size) No ones said the flapper is too small on this turbo to control boost, IJ said he had issues on his setup.

(wastegate size post http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...by-Cx-Racing&p=1569998&viewfull=1#post1569998)
 

SupraSean

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Sorry guys, have been uber busy,,,,, ok so with boost leaks still, a shitty tune and 5 psi, i made 258 and 262 trq. sadly i couldnt keep it to hold 10psi, so im guessing it was somewhere between 7-10 and made 300 flat with 278 trq, now heres the kicker. we ran it to 6k, it was still climbing VERY steadily. no drop off at 6k. so the turbo is definately performing well, especially being that its barely waking up. i appologize for still not fixing the leaks lol but it should give you an idea. i have two more couplers to replace, i want to give her a tittie bit more pload and try again. im wondering if it wont hold boost because of the mentioned weak wgate spring. i suppose we will have to find out. im going to ask the guys at the shop to send an email with the dyno sheets so i can post them up. Oh yea, and this was on a mustang dyno, which i hear read low. just fyi
 
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paradox616

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Sorry guys, have been uber busy,,,,, ok so with boost leaks still, a shitty tune and 5 psi, i made 258 and 262 trq. sadly i couldnt keep it to hold 10psi, so im guessing it was somewhere between 7-10 and made 300 flat with 278 trq, now heres the kicker. we ran it to 6k, it was still climbing VERY steadily. no drop off at 6k. so the turbo is definately performing well, especially being that its barely waking up. i appologize for still not fixing the leaks lol but it should give you an idea. i have two more couplers to replace, i want to give her a tittie bit more pload and try again. im wondering if it wont hold boost because of the mentioned weak wgate spring. i suppose we will have to find out. im going to ask the guys at the shop to send an email with the dyno sheets so i can post them up. Oh yea, and this was on a mustang dyno, which i hear read low. just fyi
Looks promising :) got a graph? Numbers are higher than mine at those levels! get it fixed and get some video's!
My cooler pipes are welded up now (hot side) just need a few a silicon reducer before i start to play with the actuator again, Hopefully we can find a suitable replacement and test it that will hold high boost.
 

SupraSean

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Im having problems spooling over 10psi. the one thing i havent done yet is seal the compressor housing, so i guess i know what i need to do. I have been really busy with work lately, i will try to get the graph from the buddy's shop. its really kinda pathetic. the turbo takes so long to spool it makes its peak hp at 5800rpm. i was really expecting more torque but i realized that 7m's make most of their torque Down low, too which this turbo spools the opposite. haha. but i'm taking it to pittsburgh raceway park this saturday. i hope to be able fix the issues and run at 15psi. Setting my goals low again,haha 15's or bust LMAO. Updates asap.
 

CBatstone

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Sean, the turbo is blowing out it's wastegate causing your slow spool and appearance of late, high-rpm power. I've cranked mine down and got it to 12psi and will try tightening it a bit more before replacing the wastegate actuator. We will never see quick spool if we are cracking the WG in the Mid-RPM Band, which is what I was, and still am experiencing after 12psi. My turbo still spools better than you described and I have not sealed the turbine housing yet. Car is noticeably faster than CT26 60-1 at same boost levels. We will look forward to all of ours being remedied once we get a suitable actuator replacement plan in place. I'm down right now with a stuck/collapsed lifter or a valve problem and have taken the car off the road for the time being. I'd like to know more about which boost controllers are designed to work with the 2-Port style Turbonetics Actuators which seem to be the best bet for any high-boost internal WG turbo.
 

SupraSean

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Sean, the turbo is blowing out it's wastegate causing your slow spool and appearance of late, high-rpm power. I've cranked mine down and got it to 12psi and will try tightening it a bit more before replacing the wastegate actuator. We will never see quick spool if we are cracking the WG in the Mid-RPM Band, which is what I was, and still am experiencing after 12psi. My turbo still spools better than you described and I have not sealed the turbine housing yet. Car is noticeably faster than CT26 60-1 at same boost levels. We will look forward to all of ours being remedied once we get a suitable actuator replacement plan in place. I'm down right now with a stuck/collapsed lifter or a valve problem and have taken the car off the road for the time being. I'd like to know more about which boost controllers are designed to work with the 2-Port style Turbonetics Actuators which seem to be the best bet for any high-boost internal WG turbo.
I know my greddy type s controller has 3 ports on the solenoid, for internal or external so there may be a way to make it work. i will prob pick up that turbonetics dual port next week.
 

SupraSean

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Drag strip today! lol. pre loaded the gate and found out why it was running like a turd bucket. the flapper was getting stuck on the elbow gasket. so i know it held 10psi last night steadily. so lets go for broke and see what she does at the track haha. will post results asap..:)
 

SupraSean

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ok ladies and gents. i couldnt launch worth a damn pullin 2.4 60 foots i managed a best of 14.3 trapping 106. soooo first gear is useless, second gear doesnt really do much either. 3rd gear was when i actually started freight training. but sadly not two blocks from leaving the track, i blew something major as far as seals go in the motor. blew a coupler, blew and oil line and blew a seal literally at the same time....lmao. so its off the road and getting a forge job:) she'll be back next spring. i preloaded the gate and got her to hold 14psi steadily. arg.... finally got it all buttoned up. and it went.
 

black89t

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i have now drived with mine over a year, and its still perfect, its boost actully pretty fast


how much boost do you run normally? do you drive it hard at all? any idea of the miles? i have a friend with a hatch thats on a ebay turbo. it pulls pretty hard. high 12s is what it usually runs. some how the turbo hasn't broke yet. i'm still skeptical but the more info we have on them the better. :icon_razz:
 

SupraSean

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almost 2k miles now before she blew. but i checked the turbo today, no signs of excessive wear. actually looks perfect still. ran 5psi for about 850 miles, 10psi for 850 miles and ran it at 14psi for about 300 miles. I would say The one and only thing i dont like about this turbo is the lack of driveability at low rpm. it doesnt spool like a small frame turbo and takes some time to adjust....basically be ready to keep it above 2750rpm. But on its defense, when it does come into boost, it hits HARD. :)
 

SupraSean

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That sucks Sean :(

I got my cooler piping welded up and mine will be back on the road soon.
Eh. its ok. i was kinda expecting it lol. but its getting to the point where its just too cold to drive a car with no heat anyway so perhaps its for the better. i just wish the transmission hadnt dropped out of my truck the day after...lol
 

CBatstone

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Argh, sorry to hear that Sean. These cars are *always* f^#$*ng broken. We spend so much time, money and effort for the most minimal of satisfaction. Mine was running great after my 3500$ put into it this year getting a MAFTPRO, Larger Injectors, Speed Density and supporting equipment installed and I ran it for a few weeks just barely got it tuned in right and now it sits useless again with a sticking valve or valve lifter that I have yet to fully diagnose. More money to get my friend to tow it 200 miles back to our shop and I've had no fun at all with the car. I brought it to the strip a few weeks ago and had about as poor 60 foot times as you did, worse even, but I admittedly do not know how to drag race (read, launch) very well at all yet. I feel like I'm in this endless loop where my car could not be sold to anybody because of the mods, yet i've got too much into it to give up, yet its rarely ever a fun, reliable, drivable state where I can take it on vacation and enjoy it. And for the amount I pay to fuel it, fix it, insure it and store it I continally say... WTF?!
 

SupraSean

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Argh, sorry to hear that Sean. These cars are *always* f^#$*ng broken. We spend so much time, money and effort for the most minimal of satisfaction. Mine was running great after my 3500$ put into it this year getting a MAFTPRO, Larger Injectors, Speed Density and supporting equipment installed and I ran it for a few weeks just barely got it tuned in right and now it sits useless again with a sticking valve or valve lifter that I have yet to fully diagnose. More money to get my friend to tow it 200 miles back to our shop and I've had no fun at all with the car. I brought it to the strip a few weeks ago and had about as poor 60 foot times as you did, worse even, but I admittedly do not know how to drag race (read, launch) very well at all yet. I feel like I'm in this endless loop where my car could not be sold to anybody because of the mods, yet i've got too much into it to give up, yet its rarely ever a fun, reliable, drivable state where I can take it on vacation and enjoy it. And for the amount I pay to fuel it, fix it, insure it and store it I continally say... WTF?!
And that my friends is what it really means to be a supramaniac. :) Love hate relationship 24/7
 

gemiz

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It would be great if those who have worked with this turbo made a new thread with "how to" solve the common issues the turbo have. Etc:
-New oil lines (where to buy, how to fix).
-How to tighten the acuator
-How to replace the acuator
and other fixes that might need doing on this kind of turbo.

I know there is some pictures and how to`s in this thread, but its a 64pages long thread, and not very easy to find out what issues this turbo have, what need doing, and what might need doing.

I have followd the thread some time, and have read all 64 pages. There is alot of information in this thread, i just think someone should sort some of it out.
 

SupraSean

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Ok.
1. needs custom oil lines, i got mine from zankoku perf. for pretty cheap.
2. waste gate springrate too low, blows the flapper off the housing at higher boost levels. preload as necisary, or replace with turbonetics or similiar int. gate (dual port if available)
3. Does not build boost, flapper arm loosens up and gets stuck on housing, weld or other suitable way to secure arm.
4. poor spool. CHECK BOOST LEAKS. comp housing has no gasket, silicone or others fix will work.

The main issues are with the wastegate design. and although it seems like alot, these are relatively cheap fixes. I made 258whp at 5psi with this turbo. it packs a mean punch when functioning correctly