Supra Head Flow (5M,7M,1JZ,2JZGE,2JZGTE)

ma71supraturbo

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#1
Stock heads:


Ported:



Note -- I need good data on the 1JZ. The current graph is an approximation based on the idea that the 1JZ flows 90% of the 2JZGTE intake, and 88% of the 2JZGTE exhaust. I got this data from a post by Erin Carpenter on Supraforums where he tested a stock 1JZ intake port at 215cfm at .4" lift and 133cfm for the exhaust (he tested a 2JZGTE at 238cfm intake and 154cfm exhaust). Its quite possible that the 1JZ flows as well as the 2JZ up to a certain lift, and then stalls earlier (more like the 7m). The rest of the engines are about as accurate as one could expect -- averaging data from 3-8 people/engine.
 
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ma71supraturbo

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#2
Raw numbers (pressure is at 28" H20 unless otherwise noted -- you can convert from another pressure by multiplying by sqrt(28/x) where x is the other pressure in inches of H20):


5MGE




Bruce Hilsabeck (tested at 25" H20)
Intake: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported cfm)
0.1 52 63
0.2 109 114
0.3 137 153
0.4 149 182
0.5 158 199
Exhaust: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported cfm)
0.1 40 52
0.2 66 101
0.3 101 126
0.4 119 141
0.5 126 147


JT (Tested at 10" H20)
Intake: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported cfm)
0.039 13.7 14.5
0.079 27.3 27.7
0.118 40.3 40.7
0.157 52 43.3
0.197 63.2 66.8
0.236 73 78.9
0.276 78.7 89.7
0.315 81.8 99.1
0.354 85.8 106.1
0.394 89.3 111.5
0.433 92.4 115.7
0.472 93.3 117.5
0.512 95.1 117.9
Exhaust: (lift in inches, stock cfm)
0.039 10.7
0.079 22.3
0.118 33.7
0.157 44
0.197 56.5
0.236 67.3
0.276 76.2
0.315 80
0.354 83.9
0.394 85.3
0.433 86.8
0.472 87.8
0.512 88.2

MARK5mgte (tested at unknown pressure on homemade flowbench)
Intake: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported +1mm OS valve cfm)
0.4 185 252
 
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ma71supraturbo

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#3
7MG

Stock 7m Intake:
lift(in)___Defiant7m___iNvis7M ('89)___T72mk3 ('89)___chevyeater1 ('90 #6 casting)
0__________0___________0_______________0_____________0
0.05_______ ___________37.8____________30.8___________
0.1________77.4________81______________67.3__________
0.15_______113.9_______118.5___________ ______________
0.2________141.4_______149_____________139.1_________158
0.25_______162.8_______166.8___________ ______________183
0.3________176_________184.8___________179.7_________198
0.35_______179.6_______190.7___________ ______________205
0.4________179.6_______193.7___________190.1_________210
0.45_______180_________ _______________ ______________210
0.5________180_________ _______________190.1__________





Stock 7m Exhaust:
llift(in)___Defiant7m___iNvis7M ('89)___T72mk3 ('89)___chevyeater1 ('90 #6 casting)
0__________0___________0_______________0_____________0
0.05_______ ___________30.2____________29.9___________
0.1________60.4________65______________62.1__________
0.15_______93__________84.5____________ ______________
0.2________112.9_______106_____________112.7_________135
0.25_______123.2_______116.9___________ ______________148
0.3________127.8_______121.4___________130.8_________155
0.35_______130.7_______126_____________ ______________156
0.4________133.2_______129_____________137.7_________158
0.45_______133.2_______ _______________ ______________160
0.5________133_________ _______________140.4__________162





Defiant7m stock vs street port (stock valves, cut valve guides) vs race port (2JZ valves, cut valve guides, "big port" #12 casting I believe, and lots of porting)

Intake:
lift(in)___Stock___Street___Race
0.1________77.4____80.4_____80.8
0.15_______113.9___122.4____121.7
0.2________141.4___159.9____152.6
0.25_______162.8___187.8____181
0.3________176_____202.4____201.3
0.35_______179.6___211.2____211.8
0.4________179.6___216.5____222.4
0.45_______180_____220______231.8
0.5________180_____220______239.1





Exhaust:
lift(in)___Stock___Street___Race
0.1________60.4____76.3_____76.3
0.15_______93______103.4____108
0.2________112.9___121______135.2
0.25_______123.2___131______150.3
0.3________127.8___139.4____163.8
0.35_______130.7___143.1____167.6
0.4________133.2___149.5____171.8
0.45_______133.2___155______174
0.5________133_____155______178





T72mk3 ('89) stock vs ported (stock valve)

Intake:
Lift(in)___Stock___Ported
0__________0_______0
0.05_______30.8____39.3
0.1________67.3____78.5
0.2________139.1___166.4
0.3________179.7___213.9
0.4________190.1___228.8
0.5________190.1___234.7



Exhaust:
Lift(in)___Stock___Ported
0__________0_______0
0.05_______29.9____39
0.1________62.1____75.7
0.2________112.7___131.6
0.3________130.8___156.5
0.4________137.7___172.8
0.5________140.4___176


MADSUPRA88 Ported (stock valve):

Lift Intake
500 243
400 231
300 216
200 188
100 114

Lift Exhaust
500 193
400 186
300 172
200 142
100 80
 
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ma71supraturbo

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#4
1JZGTE

Erin Carpenter (presumed to be at 28")
Intake: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported cfm)
0.4 215 230
Exhaust: (lift in inches, stock cfm, ported cfm)
0.4 133 152
 

ma71supraturbo

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#5
2JZGE

Intake (stock):
Lift(in)_gianttomato_SuperRunner_Headgames
0.05_____39.32_______ ___________
0.1______82.49_______89.65_______89
0.15_____129.68______ ___________
0.2______163.32______158.27______130.4
0.25_____191.43______ ___________170
0.3______210.5_______197.03______182.6
0.35_____220.5_______206.72______199.5
0.4______224.39______208.34______212
0.45_____227.57______ ___________220.8
0.5______228.91______ ___________



Exhaust (stock):
Lift(in)_gianttomato_SuperRunner
0.05_____30.79_______
0.1______63.59_______62.9
0.15_____96.72_______
0.2______126.34______117.3
0.25_____135.04______
0.3______141.73______146.2
0.35_____144.41______149.6
0.4______147.08______151.3
0.45_____149.76______
0.5______151.6_______




Headgames stock intake vs stock intake with performance valvejob (stock valve)
Lift(in)_Stock__Valvejob
0.1______89_____97
0.2______130.4__166.9
0.25_____170____198.8
0.3______182.6__216.9
0.35_____199.5__223
0.4______212____228.7
0.45_____220.8__232




SuperRunner
A) Stock
B) Feb 2006 1st attempt at porting (gasket matched)
C) B + 30degree backgrind
D) June 2006 more porting same head (later said he made bowl too big)
E) D + cut valve guides
F) Jan 2009 (3 heads later ~= professional type job) stock valve, cut guides

Intake:
Lift(in)_A_______B_______C_______D_______E_______F
0.1______89.65___86.92___88.2____89.38___90______92.1
0.15_____ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______132.5
0.2______158.27__167.27__168.31__163.93__161_____171.3
0.25_____ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______207.6
0.3______197.03__213.17__214.86__216.14__216_____236.1
0.35_____206.72__225.25__228.22__228.47__229_____257.8
0.4______208.34__231.51__233.2___237.95__239_____270.2
0.45_____ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______280
0.5______ _______ _______ _______ _______251_____


I this this is fascinating, so I tried to zoom in to highlight the region where the different aspects of porting changed the flow

Exhaust:
Lift(in)_A_______B_______C_______D
0.1______62.9____70.29___71.02___72.43
0.2______117.3___128.37__130.38__126.23
0.3______146.2___163.16__164.73__159.38
0.35_____149.6___172.68__173.74__168.75
0.4______151.3___179.46__179.46__173.86




GiantTomato Intake (stock vs ported):
Lift(in)_Stock__Ported
0.05_____39.3___39.7
0.1______82.5___83.2
0.15_____129.7__125.5
0.2______163.3__163.3
0.25_____191.4__191.4
0.3______210.5__216.7
0.35_____220.2__235.4
0.4______224.4__243.5
0.45_____227.6__249.8
0.5______228.9__251.3

Exhaust (stock vs ported):
Lift(in)_Stock__Ported
0.05_____30.8___31.3
0.1______63.6___65.3
0.15_____96.7___103.2
0.2______126.3__136.4
0.25_____135.0__162.3
0.3______141.7__178.2
0.35_____144.4__185.4
0.4______147.1__193.8
0.45_____149.8__201.0
0.5______151.6__203.8

 
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ma71supraturbo

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#6
2JZGTE

Stock Intake:
Lift(in)_ErinC_BXRsupra_poggie_M2racing_silvino_StuHagen
0.05_____ _____ ________50.1___45_______45______
0.1______ _____81_______100.5__92_______97______80
0.15_____ _____ ________148.8__136______138_____
0.2______ _____155______186.7__168______169_____154
0.25_____ _____ ________212.2__190______190_____
0.3______ _____199______231.8__205______210_____195
0.35_____ _____ ________241.9__217______227_____
0.4______238___207______246____225______228_____207
0.45_____ _____ ________ ______229______228_____
0.5______ _____215______ ______231______228_____215


Stock Exhaust:
Lift(in)_ErinC_BXRsupra_poggie_M2racing_silvino_StuHagen
0.05_____ _____ ________37_____38_______36______
0.1______ _____65_______76.3___82_______75______74
0.15_____ _____ ________105.3__106______109_____
0.2______ _____122______124.2__120______128_____120
0.25_____ _____ ________135.8__129______140_____
0.3______ _____145______141.7__136______146_____140
0.35_____ _____ ________147.5__137______150_____
0.4______154___151______148____138______154_____152
0.45_____ _____ ________ ______138______154_____
0.5______ _____152______ ______139______154_____154



Note: Silvino tested with manifolds on

Silvino Stock vs Supraformance Ported
Intake:
Lift(in)_Stock_Ported
0.05_____45____47
0.1______97____93
0.15_____138___137
0.2______169___174
0.25_____190___205
0.3______210___229
0.35_____227___243
0.4______228___248
0.45_____228___248
0.5______225___248

Exhaust:
Lift(in)_Stock_Ported
0.05_____36____42
0.1______75____90
0.15_____109___119
0.2______128___140
0.25_____140___152
0.3______146___161
0.35_____150___165
0.4______154___166
0.45_____154___166
0.5______154___166



Stu Hagen Stock vs SHP stage 1 Ported
Intake:
Lift(in)_Stock_Ported
0.1______80____97
0.2______154___174
0.3______195___230
0.4______207___260
0.5______215___265

Exhaust:
Lift(in)_Stock_Ported
0.1______74____80
0.2______120___140
0.3______140___170
0.4______152___180
0.5______154___185




T78supra Stock vs Stock +1mm valves vs Ported +1mm valves (unknown pressure -- probably ~20")
Intake:
Lift(in)_Stock_+1mm_Ported+1mm
0.1______66___72___81
0.2______131__141__158
0.3______169__179__199
0.4______180__191__214
0.5______190__198__221

Exhaust:
Lift(in)_Stock_+1mm_Ported+1mm
0.1______60___65___79
0.2______115__123__147
0.3______138__145__163
0.4______142__152__165
0.5______144__158__166




suprwhp Ported, +1mm valves, cut guides
Intake:
.1 117.7
.2 202.7
.3 266.2
.4 296
.45 306.3
Exhaust:
.1 89.3
.2 165
.3 176.6
.4 184.1
.45 191.5


M2 Racing (stock vs M2racing CNC ported):
 
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viperkillertt

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#8
Stock heads:


Ported:



Note -- I need good data on the 1JZ. The current graph is an approximation based on the idea that the 1JZ flows 90% of the 2JZGTE intake, and 88% of the 2JZGTE exhaust. I got this data from a post by Erin Carpenter on Supraforums where he tested a stock 1JZ intake port at 215cfm at .4" lift and 133cfm for the exhaust (he tested a 2JZGTE at 238cfm intake and 154cfm exhaust). Its quite possible that the 1JZ flows as well as the 2JZ up to a certain lift, and then stalls earlier (more like the 7m). The rest of the engines are about as accurate as one could expect -- averaging data from 3-8 people/engine.
Great graphs, but i am very confused by your 1j info. I have always read that the 1j flowed more on either the exhaust or intake. having them flow 10 percent less overall is something i have never heard. Who has flow tested their 1j heads?
 

ma71supraturbo

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#9
Who has flow tested their 1j heads?

As I posted -- the only data I've found is from Erin Carpenter. Here is his post on SF:

Erin Carpenter said:
It has been a very common rumor on here for a long time that the 1JZ head flows better than the 2JZ. This has lead to alot of people doing the 1.5JZ swap or atleast wanting to. Over the last few weeks I have been building a 1JZ, including porting the head, for a customer. I flowed the head on our SF-600 flow bench before and after I ported the head.

A stock 2JZ flows about 238in and 154ex at .400 lift. A stock 1JZ head flows 215in and 133ex at .400 lift. After I did a good street port job including reworking the chamber the 1JZ head flowed 230in and 152ex at .400. This should put to rest the idea that the 1JZ head is better than the 2JZ, because the fact of the matter is that it is not better.

Erin
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339560
 

rwd

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#12

ma71supraturbo

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#13
the flow of 2jz stock head that Erin Carpenter flowed is not same as my friend 2jz stock head?

for intake port ,at .400, my friend had 215cfm and after port&polish he had 234cfm???

bizarre

That is part of the problem with comparing flow numbers. People have reported their 2JZs flowing anywhere from 215-250 stock just because of differences in flowbench calibrations (with 230 being the average). Since Erin Carpenter presumably flowed both heads on the same equipment -- then the percent differences (at that one lift) should be accurate. Still, the 1JZ data is woefully lacking, and I welcome any new information/numbers that people may have.
 

bobiseverywhere

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#14
i am not to sure how that keeps happening with the rumor about the 1J. the only thing the 1J head has over the 2J is air Velocity as i understand it. it may flow less but it flows the air at a higher velocity. That's what i have understood from tid bits here and there i don't know if anyone has data to back this up. Possibly this theory is based on the shape of the ports. not to sure anymore.
 

tissimo

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#15
i am not to sure how that keeps happening with the rumor about the 1J. the only thing the 1J head has over the 2J is air Velocity as i understand it. it may flow less but it flows the air at a higher velocity. That's what i have understood from tid bits here and there i don't know if anyone has data to back this up. Possibly this theory is based on the shape of the ports. not to sure anymore.
If you look at the 1jz ports (intake) vs the 2jz, you'll see why the velocity is higher. The ports are smaller and with smaller ports you'll have higher velocity with similar flow (lower lifts). But of course with a smaller port and you run out of flow faster then the larger.
 

rwd

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#16
if i port&polish 1j head, is it possible to acheive the same results as 2j

i think 2j can flow about 300cfm with crazy job
 

Guyana00

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#17
Anyone notice the difference in flow when it comes to intake and exhaust when comparing the 7m and 1j? 7m looks much better than the 1j for exhaust and the 1j looks better than the 7m for intake.
 

SupraClaou

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#18
Head job (port & polish) should be done only when you wanna push
big HP numbers...
Some guys stated that a ported head will start to 'pay off'
only after 700-800 whp...at least on a JZ engines :sarcasm:
Till then the stock head is more than ok :biglaugh:
 

RacerXJ220

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#20
We know we can make 700WHP+ on most of those heads stock flow. I wonder what the limit would be for the 1JZ exhaust port assumed max flow.
 

whatthe

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#22
Fantastic post and effort! I came across this thread while searching google.

I have the head off my IS as I'm swapping it over to a GTE block, and I noticed that the exhaust ports are quite different on cylinders 1,2, and 3 (cylinders 4,5,6 look like matched pair to cylinders 1,2,3). With the manifold off, and looking straight into the exhaust port of cylinders 1 all you see is one exhaust valve that has a short run right to the exit....while the other exhaust valve is around the bend and partly swipes across the other valve on it's way out. The air has to travel further and it looks like it causes some turbulence on its way out (based on pattern of build up in the port). Cylinders 2 and 5 are more centered, cylinders 3 and 6 look like a mild version of the problem in cylinders 1,4. I wasn't planning to port the head while it's off, but I'm feeling like I should try to match each cylinder better.

Sooo, I was wondering if flow data existed for cylinders 1-3 on the exhaust side of a 2JZ-GE head, or even the GTE head. It seems difficult to believe they would all flow the same. Also, I recall Larry Windermere (Endyn) stated that even the GTE head was a challenge to get all ports to flow the same.

Thanks
 

MK3Hitman21

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#23
1jz was the best designed head for a starting point so of course the 2j will flow better it has the blue print of 1jz design. as i'm a beast athlete my son will be better..